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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Fahrenheit 911 Irony
    #2837129 - 06/28/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I find it interesting that while Moore lambasts Bush for allegedly spinning America into war's in Afghanistan and Iraq, he resorts to those same kind of propagandistic and manipulative ploys in constructing his film. He selectively presents information that makes Iraq look completely unprovoked, Bush and Bin Laden best buddies, and the war in Afghanistan over an oil pipeline. I think all of those claims are total bullshit, and an obvious example of manipulating facts. However, isn't using selective information to enflame people what liberals have accused Bush, Powell and Rumsfeld of? If Moore himself isn't flat out lying then he is 'implying' or 'misleading' viewers, words liberals should be well familiar with.

I am seriously hoping that Moore's film is supposed to be deliberately ironic, at least then it would have some redeeming value to an intelligent person. In all reality though, I think Moore is serious (especially in how he takes his own narrow opinion) and really believes in what he is doing; just what he is criticizing. Even more ironic when he accuses the Bush Administration of hypocrisy.

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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837167 - 06/28/04 05:47 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I agree that he does somewhat portray Iraq as an innocent entity, but I think moreso he was showing how the common Iraqi was better off before this war. He rarely showed footage of Saddam or any others in power that were at any point hostile to the rest of Iraq or foreigners. So you kind of derived that on your own.

Second, He did not make it seem like Bush and Bin Laden were best buddies, another derivation in your own mind. He showed how the Bush family and the Bin Laden family were good friends, as well as the Saudi Royals. You made this connection, not Michael Moore.

And as far as the oil pipeline, I didn't get the impression that's WHY we bombed them, but just that the whole gas pipeline through Afghanistan was able to occur with their own 'installed government' with help from the Saudi's...I think.

Moore presented a lot of information that is accurate, and presented a lot of his own opinion. He's the first to admit it, the movie is biased. But as far as using manipulative ploys equal to the Bush administration, No. Your examples were all derived on your own, Michael Moore never made those connections in the theater.


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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837177 - 06/28/04 05:55 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)



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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837201 - 06/28/04 06:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I think all of those claims are total bullshit




umm what you think and what the reallity of the situation is are two different things bucko. u can go ahead and be a republican, but bush is a bad and corrupt piece of shit who makes your party look bad. you people on the right should want bush gone as bad as everyone else, so maybe next time u can pick a better canidate. let kerry have four years, see how he does, if he sucks replace him with someone better. it makes me sick when i think about how these corporations are profiting off the blood of kids my age and younger. iraq posed no threat and according to a bi-partisan commsision was found to have NO CONNECTION to 9/11 or al-queda. Bush actually diverted attention and resources from afganistan where the real terrorists. Don't you dare make some argument about how saddam was some evil dictator and we are heros for deposing him. There are many vile dictators in this world, who kill and torture more than saddam ever did, we don't invade their countries. If anyone still believes that Iraq having prior beef with Bush and having the second largest oil stockpile has nothing to do with war they are fucking retarded. Oh, and a few more things, nothing Moore brought up was news to me, its just info that mainstream news will not report. Its scary how close media companies and the government have become. When the gocernment controls who gets liscenses, who can brodcast and who gets tax breaks, it drives free speech right out the window. WHat is reported on television, especially on that garbage spewing fox news channel is getting really close to state tv. Moore at least his admits that his movie is slanted because of his opinions, people know which side he plays for. Whats scary an d where the real brain-washing takes place is on fox news, those fucks actually claim to be "fair and balanced".

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837209 - 06/28/04 06:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I saw an interview with Michael Moore recently, and apparently he believes in an eye for an eye. When accused of taking cheap shots at the people he goes after he said he took that as a compliment, because he felt they deserved nothing less.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2837469 - 06/28/04 07:30 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Whats scary an d where the real brain-washing takes place is on fox news, those fucks actually claim to be "fair and balanced".





:thumbup:


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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837494 - 06/28/04 07:41 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

He selectively presents information that makes Iraq look completely unprovoked




Uhhh........ yeah.








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OfflineBush2004
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Blastrid]
    #2837610 - 06/28/04 08:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blastrid said:
Yes, I agree that he does somewhat portray Iraq as an innocent entity, but I think moreso he was showing how the common Iraqi was better off before this war. .




I don't think too many Kurds would agree with you here. Or the parents who had to watch their children tortured.

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837661 - 06/28/04 08:51 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

You Bush people need to pull that Kurd shit off the fucking table. That shit happened while Bush Sr. supported Hussein. He had absolutely no problem with it at the time.

You've been manipulated by the current Bush administration.





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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Learyfan]
    #2837699 - 06/28/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not talking about then...Im talking about now. THe kurds were living in poverty and oppressed for the past 30 years. This hasn't changed until SH was ousted. The shi ites were oppressed as well. Under SH only 20% of the population lived normal lives. THe rest were in hell.

Please wake up. SH was an evil man.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837711 - 06/28/04 09:05 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Please wake up. SH was an evil man.



So is the man you support in 2004.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: silversoul7]
    #2837726 - 06/28/04 09:09 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Ding ding ding.

Remember, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

But 3 rights make a left.


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: silversoul7]
    #2837819 - 06/28/04 09:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

The only way the "new" Iraq will succeed is if 1) the Iraqi people WANT it to succeed, and 2) the foreign insurgents allow it to succeed or are destroyed. Think about who exactly the resistance is, and what they are resisting. Foreign fighters, crossing the border to kill Iraqis along with anyone else who was involved with Saddam's overthrow? Or well-meaning Iraqis willing to slaughter anyone in hopes of restoring the Sunni-backed regime? They blow up oil pipelines, not a very bright move if they EVER cared about Iraq, as it's the only significant resource they have. They blow up schools, mosques, police stations and whatever else is convenient. Not too concerned about their fellow man. Resisting civilization, if you think about it.

Saddam was a secular leader, from a Sunni background, and those who supported him benefited from it. It sounds to me like they'd rather force their fellow Iraqis to live in ruins, rather than see how the "new" Iraq progresses. That appears to be the way things go in the Middle East anyway: why improve your own way of life when it's easier to knock the other guy back down to your level?

Once those pesky American and "coalition" soldiers leave, nothing will stand in the way of a good old-fashioned civil war. We must succeed in Iraq. Bush has the heart to do whatever it takes in order to win.

Edited by Bush2004 (06/28/04 09:39 PM)

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837888 - 06/28/04 10:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I know Saddam is a bad man. I think he's worse than Bush. Everyone does on this board.

I know he oppressed his people. But that is no justification for war because we are allies with leaders who are just as evil as Saddam. If we really cared about oppressed peoples then we couldn't be. We care about oppressed people like the DEA cares about helping drug users.






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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2838288 - 06/29/04 12:29 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

no morre is simpley speeking out for the majority of america the majority that a unelected president has all but silanced

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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2840914 - 06/29/04 05:54 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

This thread is way off track. It was supposed to be about Micheal Moore adopting the same tactics he criticizes, not another conspiracy theorists shouting match. I have my own opinion, but that was not the point of the thread. I thought there might be something interesting to learn about ethics and honesty in politicals, but it seems for most here those take a back seat to partisanship.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2840985 - 06/29/04 06:16 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

That's ironic.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2845747 - 07/01/04 12:35 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

THe kurds were living in poverty


So should we invade India, how bout Panama, shit, lets just invade the whole of Africa.
Quote:

oppressed for the past 30 years


I just want you to give my a link or a source that cites Kurd oppression, that's all. Its not that I don't believe you, but if you're going to claim it, you should be able to back it up.
Quote:

Under SH only 20% of the population lived normal lives.


I'm gonna definitely need a link for this claim.
Quote:

THe rest were in hell.


You sound like Moore himself.
Quote:

SH was an evil man.


Yeah, I agree. But......if he was so evil, and that was our main concern, why didn't we just assasinate him. And don't give me that bullshit that its against international law, you and I both know this admin has thrown international law right out the window, it landed next to our civil rights.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

Edited by Skikid16 (07/01/04 01:06 AM)

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2845834 - 07/01/04 12:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

He selectively presents information that makes Iraq look completely unprovoked, Bush and Bin Laden best buddies, and the war in Afghanistan over an oil pipeline. I think all of those claims are total bullshit, and an obvious example of manipulating facts.




oh so obvious huh? back up your statements - why is it bullshit? and please include your sources. thanks.

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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2847189 - 07/01/04 11:49 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Quote:

Blastrid said:
Yes, I agree that he does somewhat portray Iraq as an innocent entity, but I think moreso he was showing how the common Iraqi was better off before this war. .




I don't think too many Kurds would agree with you here. Or the parents who had to watch their children tortured.





Way off topic... How does this have to do with how Michael Moore portrayed the common Iraqi? You associated an event that happened more than 25 years ago to a filmmaker's current portrayal of current events..... ummm ---?

btw, anyone know what % of population the Kurds make up in Iraq?


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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
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Invisiblesoochi
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2847493 - 07/01/04 01:28 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Key aspects of the film that shocked me (Mostly because of the amount of evidence to support it)

-Bush's ties with the Saudi Royal family and the Bin Laden family
-Some 30 members of the Bin Laden Family were airlifted out of the country 3 days after 9/11 with no investigation or questioning taking place. (standard protocol for FBI mind you)
-Saudis own 6-7% of America representing 1 Trillion dollars of combined monetary interest in various banks, companies and organizations (Citibank, Aol Time-Warner being among the biggest) There regime is no different from the Taliban, Al quada or any other middle eastern dictatorship/monarchy. Beheadings, civil rights, government control over the people-Still run rampant.
-Bush rigged the election. It all there in black and white. Many of his closest friends and family members made it impossible for him not to win Florida.
-The Control Bush has over FOX Broadcasting and this was the major contributer to his win in Florida.
-The current president of Afganistan was an ex unocal employee when Bush ran the company.
-Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the U.S. Bush's whole cabinet admitted this back in 2000 but said the opposite in 2002.
-Bush allowed a Taliban leader to visit the U.S. The same regime that knowingly was responisble for 9/11.
-The whole emergency threat level response is a scam.The fear it imposed is there to feed the cause and make people feel better about the war. The whole patriot act needs to be repealed and homeland security is just a bush euphamism for "gimme mah money!"
-The war in afganistan was for oil and Iraq paid the price
-Only one congressmen has an enlisted child in the military.

I judged the movie based on evidence and fact, and what it presented was what many Americans already know- The underlying and all-encompassing corruption that goes on in America, and has been going on since it's founding; the Obvious fact that Bush is a dumbass that should have never been elected (Who would anyone vote for this guy after meeting him?) and the ties to the Saudis that needs to be severed in order for us to finally bring peace to the middle east.
The only irony here is that after watching a film like this, very little will be done about any of the issues.


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Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
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Invisiblesoochi
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Learyfan]
    #2847510 - 07/01/04 01:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

No I think Bush is the worst for doing what he's doing. At least we can call Bin laden a psychopathic cave dwelling goat fucker and believes in a bigger idea (even though its a bad idea) than just his pocket book. but Bush is a wealthy man getting wealthier from the deaths of others and using his ill bread connections to make it happen.

He's also a racist.


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Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!

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Offlinevatoloco
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: soochi]
    #2847578 - 07/01/04 01:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

dude, george is just doing god's will.

it ain't easy serving the great general in the sky.

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: soochi]
    #2847701 - 07/01/04 02:31 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Bush will fight to the last drop of other peoples blood.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Offlined33p
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: soochi]
    #2847790 - 07/01/04 03:02 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

soochi said:
Key aspects of the film that shocked me (Mostly because of the amount of evidence to support it)

-Bush's ties with the Saudi Royal family and the Bin Laden family means nothing
-Some 30 members of the Bin Laden Family were airlifted out of the country 3 days after 9/11 with no investigation or questioning taking place. (standard protocol for FBI mind you) means nothing
-Saudis own 6-7% of America representing 1 Trillion dollars of combined monetary interest in various banks, companies and organizations (Citibank, Aol Time-Warner being among the biggest) There regime is no different from the Taliban, Al quada or any other middle eastern dictatorship/monarchy. Beheadings, civil rights, government control over the people-Still run rampant. Means nothing and bad comparison
-Bush rigged the election. It all there in black and white. Many of his closest friends and family members made it impossible for him not to win Florida. i disagree
-The Control Bush has over FOX Broadcasting and this was the major contributer to his win in Florida. i disagree
-The current president of Afganistan was an ex unocal employee when Bush ran the company. Means nothing if he can do the job
-Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the U.S. Bush's whole cabinet admitted this back in 2000 but said the opposite in 2002. Well i have not seen the movie yet so please explain how they show this
-Bush allowed a Taliban leader to visit the U.S. The same regime that knowingly was responisble for 9/11. The taliban led a country so we had to talk to them. Heck at one point Pablo escovar was a diplomat to the US and took vacations in DC
-The whole emergency threat level response is a scam.The fear it imposed is there to feed the cause and make people feel better about the war. The whole patriot act needs to be repealed and homeland security is just a bush euphamism for "gimme mah money!" I disagree except about patriot act
-The war in afganistan was for oil and Iraq paid the price i disagree
-Only one congressmen has an enlisted child in the military. means nothing

Now you say these are the key aspects of the movie but they dont mean much to me because i place them in context which is what Moore excludes from his films. I found with BFC people would have strong feelings about facts which when viewed with context where frivolous





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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: d33p]
    #2847885 - 07/01/04 03:25 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Key aspects of the film that shocked me (Mostly because of the amount of evidence to support it)

-Bush's ties with the Saudi Royal family and the Bin Laden family means nothing
means nothing to who?? sean hanity? rush limbaugh?
-Some 30 members of the Bin Laden Family were airlifted out of the country 3 days after 9/11 with no investigation or questioning taking place. (standard protocol for FBI mind you) means nothing
means nothing to the people who died because their organs couldnt be flown to them?
-Saudis own 6-7% of America representing 1 Trillion dollars of combined monetary interest in various banks, companies and organizations (Citibank, Aol Time-Warner being among the biggest) There regime is no different from the Taliban, Al quada or any other middle eastern dictatorship/monarchy. Beheadings, civil rights, government control over the people-Still run rampant. Means nothing and bad comparison
the fact that they own so much means nothing to you?? the fact they commit human rights abuse means nothing?? isnt that y u right wingers think sadamm was so bad?
-Bush rigged the election. It all there in black and white. Many of his closest friends and family members made it impossible for him not to win Florida. i disagree
according to most independant studies since the election, you are WRONG
-The Control Bush has over FOX Broadcasting and this was the major contributer to his win in Florida. i disagree
wrong again chief
-The current president of Afganistan was an ex unocal employee when Bush ran the company. Means nothing if he can do the job
wow corruption means nothing to you?
-Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the U.S. Bush's whole cabinet admitted this back in 2000 but said the opposite in 2002. Well i have not seen the movie yet so please explain how they show this
no WMDs and no al-queda ties = no threat to us
-Bush allowed a Taliban leader to visit the U.S. The same regime that knowingly was responisble for 9/11. The taliban led a country so we had to talk to them. Heck at one point Pablo escovar was a diplomat to the US and took vacations in DC
under a republican president??
-The whole emergency threat level response is a scam.The fear it imposed is there to feed the cause and make people feel better about the war. The whole patriot act needs to be repealed and homeland security is just a bush euphamism for "gimme mah money!" I disagree except about patriot act
do you smoke crack or are u just that jaded?
-The war in afganistan was for oil and Iraq paid the price i disagree
facts are hard to disagree with
-Only one congressmen has an enlisted child in the military. means nothing
it means the fat cats send poor boys to die and send their kids to ivy league schools...that means nothing ?

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2848250 - 07/01/04 05:12 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: ]
    #2850239 - 07/02/04 04:20 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

>>> The war in afganistan was for oil and Iraq paid the price
>> i disagree
> facts are hard to disagree with

I'm not going to bother with the entire thing, but I find the argument on both sides to be rather silly. I would like to see these 'facts' that 'prove' that the war in Iraq was (or was not) about oil.

I think oil had a bit to do with it, but I do not believe that oil was the overall reason. Maybe I am too cynical, but I believe the only real reason that we went to war with Iraq is because Saddam tried to have Geroge W's daddy assassinated.

> do you smoke crack or are u just that jaded?
> Of course it all means nothing you idiot!

Debate the topic, not the poster, please.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Seuss]
    #2852166 - 07/02/04 04:46 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

*Seuss: Maybe I am too cynical, but I believe the only real reason that we went to war with Iraq is because Saddam tried to have Geroge W's daddy assassinated.

I agree completely. Anybody would act strangely towards the guy who tried to kill their dad. Bush is only human.


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Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Seuss]
    #2852310 - 07/02/04 06:05 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

actually, if you really want to know why the US invaded Iraq, look into the PNAC statements - it spells it all out: superpower geopolitical strategy. Its all one big chess game and we are all pawns on the path toward global hegemony.

Oil is a bonus, but not the goal.
Revenge is a bonus, but not the goal.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: d33p]
    #2852656 - 07/02/04 09:45 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

wow, keep those blinders on.

while the individual saudi connections alone
don't mean anything to you, you must recognize
that these points, in sum, when considered
relative to the kid gloves we've been using with
them present a clear conflict of interests.

here we have a CLOSE tie to the Bush family,
the House of Saud, who run a country that
supplied the terrorists with 15 martyrs and plenty
of financial aid to al Queda's operations and
we've done very little to expose them for who
they are, viscious anti-americans who are playing
both sides of this war to their advantage.

Regarding Florida, more specifically, Katherine
Harris' role in the 2000 fiasco, please pick up
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, by Greg
Palast.

The American media is just now getting around
to covering this story, but thousands of voters
were illegally removed from the voter roles and
blocked from voting. the vast majority of these
disenfranchised voters were black (90%+) and
largely democrat.

If you don't think Rupert Murdoch's Fox News,
at the very least, has considerable rightwise
slant, or worse is a shill for the whitehouse then
I don't know what to say...

(edit: typo)


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

Edited by afoaf (07/03/04 12:13 AM)

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: soochi]
    #2853831 - 07/03/04 11:34 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

soochi said:
-Bush's ties with the Saudi Royal family and the Bin Laden family




He has ties with a government that is being attacked by this terrorist, and the family that has disowned him. So what?
Quote:


-Some 30 members of the Bin Laden Family were airlifted out of the country 3 days after 9/11 with no investigation or questioning taking place. (standard protocol for FBI mind you)




If those members were lynched by angry mobs of Americans, would you have said that they weren't protected by our government? Also, the Sept 11 comission said that none of those people were wanted by the FBI for questioning concerning the matter.
Quote:


-Saudis own 6-7% of America representing 1 Trillion dollars of combined monetary interest in various banks, companies and organizations (Citibank, Aol Time-Warner being among the biggest)




So?
Quote:


There regime is no different from the Taliban, Al quada or any other middle eastern dictatorship/monarchy. Beheadings, civil rights, government control over the people-Still run rampant.




Al Quada isn't a dictatorship or a monarchy. All of these Arab nations are like that, should we prohibit them from doing business with us? Or should we send in the big red 1 to remove them?
Quote:


-Bush rigged the election. It all there in black and white. Many of his closest friends and family members made it impossible for him not to win Florida.




Look up the definition of "facts" and "conjecture", then getb ack to me.
Quote:


-The Control Bush has over FOX Broadcasting and this was the major contributer to his win in Florida.




fact? conjecture?
Quote:


-Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the U.S. Bush's whole cabinet admitted this back in 2000 but said the opposite in 2002.




Anything about Clinton in this movie? how clinton bombed iraq? said that WMD's were a big problem?
Quote:


-Bush allowed a Taliban leader to visit the U.S. The same regime that knowingly was responisble for 9/11.




A little bit more detail, please. Was Bush manning the customs desk at JFK, or did it happen while bush was president, and twinkyman made up a "link".
Quote:


-The whole emergency threat level response is a scam.The fear it imposed is there to feed the cause and make people feel better about the war. The whole patriot act needs to be repealed and homeland security is just a bush euphamism for "gimme mah money!"




Lets eliminate the dept of homeland security. Great idea.
Quote:


-The war in afganistan was for oil and Iraq paid the price




Earlier you mentioned that Taliban leaders came to the US. If they weren't involved in terrorism, or supporting terrorism, why would that matter that they came? IF they WERE involved, then it wasn't for oil.
Quote:


-Only one congressmen has an enlisted child in the military.




So?

Micheal Moore, soap for the brain!

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2853840 - 07/03/04 11:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
means nothing to who?? sean hanity? rush limbaugh?




What tie do you see between our president knowing and having past financial dealings with a large family who's disowned child attacked us? What does it mean, to you, that the nation of Saudi Arabia and the nation of America have both been attacked by this terrorist?
Quote:


means nothing to the people who died because their organs couldnt be flown to them?




Well, if that is true, that's sad. But it doesn't truely "mean" anything. I'm sure that lots of things happened because planes weren't flying but it doesn't show a connection.
Quote:

the fact that they own so much means nothing to you?? the fact they commit human rights abuse means nothing?? isnt that y u right wingers think sadamm was so bad?




Should we stop foreign investors in a free market?
Quote:


according to most independant studies since the election, you are WRONG




And, of course, by "independant", you mean "done by liberals that I agree with"
Quote:


wrong again chief




Whoa, breaking out the big guns in logic here. Why don't you actually prove something or bring up a point, instead of "No d00d ur wrong"
Quote:


wow corruption means nothing to you?




Being an employee of a company means hes corrupt. Provide proof of his corruption, please.
Quote:


no WMDs and no al-queda ties = no threat to us




If we are only concerned with the threat he posed to the US, then why would it matter what the UN thinks?
Quote:


under a republican president??




Should we ban foreign diplomats? Arrest them against international law?
Quote:


do you smoke crack or are u just that jaded?




Brilliant comeback.
Quote:


facts are hard to disagree with




Thats true. Fortunatly for us, Moore doesn't use those nasty icky things in his movies.
Quote:


it means the fat cats send poor boys to die and send their kids to ivy league schools...that means nothing ?



The one person who's kid is in the military is a Democrat, and voted for the war. That doesnt' seem to support your little position, nor the position of the beached whale, Moore.

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OfflineEd1
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2853961 - 07/03/04 12:34 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT

Quote:
To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/



"...speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European...
it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated
Europeans.

They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and
ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own, as their representative
American...
someone who actually embodies all of those qualities."

- Christopher Hitchens


http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bi...ames;read=49290


Commies love Moore's film:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39250


Michael Moore is a liar:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/127ujhuf.asp


Some cartoons.

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/MichaelMoore/main.asp?GT1=4244


Michael Moore's fetus stew:

http://moxie.nu/blog.php


Quote:


Bastard Sword has a hilarious response to the whole thing: "Meanwhile I'd like to mention that I'm writing a science fiction story about a future in which books by liberal idiots go unread. Instead all the liberals memorize small snipets of Mooronic drivel, reciting to each other like songbirds, daily inflicting their rote invectives on normal folks. Oh wait, that wouldn't be science fiction, would it. That would just be another sad commentary on their current state."





http://www.axisofweasels.com/blog/archives/000587.html

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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2853964 - 07/03/04 12:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I really am sick of this "Moore is biased, so it's propaganda and wrong" claim. Everyone has already heard the partyline agenda that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, no wait, that he had connections to al-Qaeda ... No, that's still not right..... what was it again? Oh yeah, that we're liberating Iraqis from this evil dictator! Wait, what does that have to do with 9/11 again? What does that have to do with the original claims made by the Bush administration to justify the war on Iraq?


Moore?s movie is a point of view that is not represented in mainstream pop culture or news media, and it doesn't make it wrong simply because it's trying to make a point. If you want to criticize the movie, do it on the merit of the material, not on the grounds that it's biased. By that mentality, anyone who has political opinion is instantly wrong because they're biased. And you know what? The movie has achieved it's goal, people are talking more in-depth about what's going on, and hearing another side of it. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, it's MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: soochi]
    #2853990 - 07/03/04 12:47 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Check out what some of these Iraqi-Americans are saying about Iraq and Saddam Hussein:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june03/iraqi_3-18.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/n03282003_200303288.html

Bush meets with Iraqi-Americans: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/images/20030428-3_d042803-515h.html


No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack




Check out Saddam Hussein's victims:

http://massgraves.info/

Edited by Ed1 (07/03/04 12:48 PM)

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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: d33p]
    #2854043 - 07/03/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

-Saudis own 6-7% of America representing 1 Trillion dollars of combined monetary interest in various banks, companies and organizations (Citibank, Aol Time-Warner being among the biggest) There regime is no different from the Taliban, Al quada or any other middle eastern dictatorship/monarchy. Beheadings, civil rights, government control over the people-Still run rampant. Means nothing and bad comparison

Means nothing? 6-7% of America's economy is backed on country which is doing the same things Iraq & al-Qaeda does and it means nothing? The connection is that these are HUGE investors in the Americian economy and holds a devistating interest in what the Americian government does, and it means nothing? It's not a comparison, it's illstriating the connections to the motivations of the Bush administration.



-Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the U.S. Bush's whole cabinet admitted this back in 2000 but said the opposite in 2002. Well i have not seen the movie yet so please explain how they show this

They let the Bush administration speak for itself by actually showing video of them, you know, actually saying that. If you haven't seen the movie, than how are you commenting that Moore is wrong?

-Bush allowed a Taliban leader to visit the U.S. The same regime that knowingly was responisble for 9/11. The taliban led a country so we had to talk to them. Heck at one point Pablo escovar was a diplomat to the US and took vacations in DC

Do some research and look at who supported the Taliban in the first place. Reader's Digest version; Afghanistan was going through political turmoil in the late 70's, and the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan was taking control and wanted to work with the Soviet Union. Osma's network was fighting against them, and the US supported the Taliban as "Afghan Contras". We put them in power, it's not that they just happen to have some sort of diplomatic control of Afghanistan, we had connections to them. Ronald Reagan called Osma bin Laden a "freedom fighter" for his work. The point the movie was making is that the connections still existed in the Bush jr. era.

Now you say these are the key aspects of the movie but they dont mean much to me because i place them in context which is what Moore excludes from his films. I found with BFC people would have strong feelings about facts which when viewed with context where frivolous

You placed them in no context whatsoever but simply dismissed them by saying you disagree. You have no facts at all, and you didn't see the movie. Stop claiming that you have this extensive knowledge that goes beyond Moore's movie when you haven't even seen it in the first place. Saying "I disagree" and "this means nothing" has no merit.

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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Ed1]
    #2854084 - 07/03/04 01:29 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ed1 said:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/





Almost every arguement I've read against Moore's film points to this article as the holy truth, so lets just look at it for a minute.


"If we were going to make sure no Taliban or al-Qaida forces survived or escaped, we would have had to be more ruthless than I suspect that Mr. Moore is really recommending."

Where did Michael Moore recommend being more "ruthless"? His point was that the Bush administration was claiming to control the "War On Terror" by invading Afgahnistan. Instead, his conjecture is that it was a half-assed attempt without any real search, while the War on Iraq had much more support while attacking civilian targets. He was making the connection that Iraq was never involved in the first place, yet we went and killed upwards of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, not "be more ruthless", which was never stated. So is his criticism of Iraqi civilian fatalites saying that the US should have been more ruthless? That's some twisted logic the article is using.

like the parties of the Iraqi secular left?are strongly in favor of the regime change.

90% of Iraqi civilians are against US occupancy. That doesn't sound like people who are "in favor of a reigme change".


He prefers leaden sarcasm to irony and, indeed, may not appreciate the distinction. In a long and paranoid (and tedious) section at the opening of the film, he makes heavy innuendoes about the flights that took members of the Bin Laden family out of the country after Sept. 11...

In the interval between Moore's triumph at Cannes and the release of the film in the United States, the 9/11 commission has found nothing to complain of in the timing or arrangement of the flights


Is this the 9/11 commission that Bush actually appointed? The one with some of his Yale colluges? It certainly isn't any of the two original ones he tried to block.

From their website:
"The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002"


They also just happen to leave out that the comission DID think the attacks were preventable, that the CIA is at fault, AND that there was no connection between Iraq and al-Qaedia. See what you can actually find when you look this stuff up?

Moore goes into detail about how he tried to block earlier commissions, and some how he got to create this "independant" commission. If it's so independant, than why did he have to block the others while creating this one in the first place?

You would also be led to think that the term "civilian casualty" had not even been in the Iraqi vocabulary until March 2003.

More interesting is the moment where Bush is shown frozen on his chair at the infant school in Florida, looking stunned and useless for seven whole minutes after the news of the second plane on 9/11. Many are those who say that he should have leaped from his stool, adopted a Russell Crowe stance, and gone to work. I could even wish that myself. But if he had done any such thing then (as he did with his "Let's roll" and "dead or alive" remarks a month later), half the Michael Moore community would now be calling him a man who went to war on a hectic, crazed impulse. The other half would be saying what they already say?that he knew the attack was coming, was using it to cement himself in power, and couldn't wait to get on with his coup. This is the line taken by Gore Vidal and by a scandalous recent book that also revives the charge of FDR's collusion over Pearl Harbor. At least Moore's film should put the shameful purveyors of that last theory back in their paranoid box.

Notice how they're using agruments that didn't even happen? They're conjecturing on what they believe Moore's response would be while ignoring his point entirely. Moore was making the point that Bush knew who was behind the attacks, and he was in a state of shock that the people he had ties to, were now attacking the country. He knew the implications of what that could mean.

In this peaceable kingdom, according to Moore's flabbergasting choice of film shots, children are flying little kites, shoppers are smiling in the sunshine, and the gentle rhythms of life are undisturbed. Then?wham! From the night sky come the terror weapons of American imperialism. Watching the clips Moore uses, and recalling them well, I can recognize various Saddam palaces and military and police centers getting the treatment. But these sites are not identified as such. In fact, I don't think Al Jazeera would, on a bad day, have transmitted anything so utterly propagandistic.

Because the video of dead babies being stacked into the back of trucks are computer generated. I didn't realize that seeing innocent people being shot (which they show) was completely made up.

They then mention: You would also be led to think that the term "civilian casualty" had not even been in the Iraqi vocabulary until March 2003.

So apparently Moore is using propaganda by.... showing things that actually happened. Uh, either this person is a complete idiot or is simply trying to degrade Moore. In the very next sentance they contradict themselves. What jouranlistic integreity.

I could go on, but you get the point. The article is written on an emotional level of a 6th grader. It uses tactics to criticize Moore without being able to really back them up.

So far, all I've seen is people pointing out these articles written by someone else and claiming that THEY'RE the truth and completely unbiased. Is there no irony in that? Yes, Moore is biased and never claimed otherwise. But so is anything you read. It's a moot point used to detract Moore's arguement against the Bush administration. I'm not saying Moore is the end all, be all of political journalists, but he's done a very good job at being able to get these perspectives into the mainstream media. If you want to detract Moore, than fine, but at least be able to back it up further than rehashing what other people have said without having an understanding of the issues they're talking about. I have no problem with valid arguements against Moore, and I have heard a couple, but at least know what you're talking about before claiming that Moore doesn't.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


Edited by Twirling (07/03/04 01:43 PM)

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: afoaf]
    #2854118 - 07/03/04 01:43 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
here we have a CLOSE tie to the Bush family,
the House of Saud, who run a country that
supplied the terrorists with 15 martyrs and plenty
of financial aid to al Queda's operations and
we've done very little to expose them for who
they are, viscious anti-americans who are playing
both sides of this war to their advantage.




So Clinton and McVeigh were tied, since McVeigh came from America?
Quote:


The American media is just now getting around
to covering this story, but thousands of voters
were illegally removed from the voter roles and
blocked from voting. the vast majority of these
disenfranchised voters were black (90%+) and
largely democrat.




Proof? Link?
Quote:


If you don't think Rupert Murdoch's Fox News,
at the very least, has considerable rightwise
slant, or worse is a shill for the whitehouse then
I don't know what to say...




I think that Murdoch does more to advance left-wing causes with MTV and VH1. Making things that traditionally haven't been accepted by right wingers appear as normal, stuff like that.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2854139 - 07/03/04 01:58 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"The American media is just now getting around
to covering this story, but thousands of voters
were illegally removed from the voter roles and
blocked from voting. the vast majority of these
disenfranchised voters were black (90%+) and
largely democrat."

this is true. it is just getting covered now, If anyone is really that interested, I will post a 1.5 hour long video just about the florida elections, and how it worked.

It definetly is NOT something that should have happened like it did.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlined33p
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Twirling]
    #2854394 - 07/03/04 03:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Twirling said:
Means nothing? 6-7% of America's economy is backed on country which is doing the same things Iraq & al-Qaeda does and it means nothing? The connection is that these are HUGE investors in the Americian economy and holds a devistating interest in what the Americian government does, and it means nothing? It's not a comparison, it's illstriating the connections to the motivations of the Bush administration.
Lets go slow: There are people in S.A. who have lots of money. They want more money. They invest in American companies which they think will earn them profit. I would like to see the percentage of economies of other countries that America owns.


They let the Bush administration speak for itself by actually showing video of them, you know, actually saying that. If you haven't seen the movie, than how are you commenting that Moore is wrong?

I did not say he is wrong........ And i was wondering when they would have said that since bush took office very late 2000.

Do some research and look at who supported the Taliban in the first place. Reader's Digest version; Afghanistan was going through political turmoil in the late 70's, and the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan was taking control and wanted to work with the Soviet Union. Osma's network was fighting against them, and the US supported the Taliban as "Afghan Contras". We put them in power, it's not that they just happen to have some sort of diplomatic control of Afghanistan, we had connections to them. Ronald Reagan called Osma bin Laden a "freedom fighter" for his work. The point the movie was making is that the connections still existed in the Bush jr. era.

Of course there is a connection we were fighting the soviets back then. Im not saying he is lying, im saying he is making something out of nothing.

You placed them in no context whatsoever but simply dismissed them by saying you disagree. You have no facts at all, and you didn't see the movie. Stop claiming that you have this extensive knowledge that goes beyond Moore's movie when you haven't even seen it in the first place. Saying "I disagree" and "this means nothing" has no merit.

Sorry but I don't have the luxary of sitting in front of a computer all day responding to crap. And of course what i posted had no merit. Your response had no merit. Nothing in this thread has merit. Who the fuck cares?





--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Offlined33p
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2854417 - 07/03/04 04:09 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
Key aspects of the film that shocked me (Mostly because of the amount of evidence to support it)

-Bush's ties with the Saudi Royal family and the Bin Laden family means nothing
means nothing to who?? sean hanity? rush limbaugh?
They control more oil than any other country, i expect their to be ties.
-Some 30 members of the Bin Laden Family were airlifted out of the country 3 days after 9/11 with no investigation or questioning taking place. (standard protocol for FBI mind you) means nothing
means nothing to the people who died because their organs couldnt be flown to them?
Flight would have been suspended regaurdless. Why did you even say that.
-Saudis own 6-7% of America representing 1 Trillion dollars of combined monetary interest in various banks, companies and organizations (Citibank, Aol Time-Warner being among the biggest) There regime is no different from the Taliban, Al quada or any other middle eastern dictatorship/monarchy. Beheadings, civil rights, government control over the people-Still run rampant. Means nothing and bad comparison
the fact that they own so much means nothing to you?? the fact they commit human rights abuse means nothing?? isnt that y u right wingers think sadamm was so bad?
There are many very wealthy people in SA, expect it. They are just a primitive arab nation, i expect it. Having public executions on fridays and genocide and 2 very different things
-Bush rigged the election. It all there in black and white. Many of his closest friends and family members made it impossible for him not to win Florida. i disagree
according to most independant studies since the election, you are WRONG
should i care?
-The Control Bush has over FOX Broadcasting and this was the major contributer to his win in Florida. i disagree
wrong again chief
see above
-The current president of Afganistan was an ex unocal employee when Bush ran the company. Means nothing if he can do the job
wow corruption means nothing to you?
as long as he can do the job
-Iraq did not pose any threat whatsoever to the U.S. Bush's whole cabinet admitted this back in 2000 but said the opposite in 2002. Well i have not seen the movie yet so please explain how they show this
no WMDs and no al-queda ties = no threat to us
alrite
-Bush allowed a Taliban leader to visit the U.S. The same regime that knowingly was responisble for 9/11. The taliban led a country so we had to talk to them. Heck at one point Pablo escovar was a diplomat to the US and took vacations in DC
under a republican president??
i believe carter
-The whole emergency threat level response is a scam.The fear it imposed is there to feed the cause and make people feel better about the war. The whole patriot act needs to be repealed and homeland security is just a bush euphamism for "gimme mah money!" I disagree except about patriot act
do you smoke crack or are u just that jaded?
I dont give a shit about that skittlies meter and if you do you are retarded.
-The war in afganistan was for oil and Iraq paid the price i disagree
facts are hard to disagree with
....
-Only one congressmen has an enlisted child in the military. means nothing
it means the fat cats send poor boys to die and send their kids to ivy league schools...that means nothing ?
You finally understand.




--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2854614 - 07/03/04 05:40 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

So Clinton and McVeigh were tied, since McVeigh came from America?




that's quite an amazing leap you just made there.

reread what I wrote, I've simply indicated that Bush is
treating SA lightly, despite the fact that the children of
SA are raised in a strictly muslim environment that paints
the west and its inhabitants as evil infidels. He is likely
doing this due to his long and lucrative business career
with the country.

But had Clinton run this country for ages, created T McV's
in a school system that taught the youth to despise the
evil muslims in the east and also had family that had
contributed heavily to the terrorist cause, yes, then I'd
consider him tied to the act.

but you're making a disengenuous analogy.

Quote:

Proof? Link?




you didn't even try to look, did you?

brief explanation:

Kathy and Jeb hired a Republican-owned company called Choicepoint
to "scrub" the voter rolls of florida. They were supposed to remove
convicted felons, but the company deliberately set the search
parameters so wide that tens of thousands of non-felons were wrongly
flagged and denied their right to vote. For example, if you were named
Joseph Robert Smith, and a convicted felon had the name Joe (anything)
Smith, guess what? you were considered a felon and you couldn't vote.
People could not find out this had been done to them until the very day
of the election, when they went to vote. Further, those illegally
disenfranchised were overwhelmingly black, in a percentage far above
their representation in the state. In other words, if you were black, you
were much more likely to end up on this list than if you were white.*

*explanation snatched from blog

here's the links to palast's articles on the matter:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=1
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=167&row=1
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=314&row=1

The detailed outline of the events can be found in
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast,

you can also use your favorite search engine to gather
more information on the matter.

I guess they didn't report this one on newsmax.com or
rightwingnews.com....


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 399
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: afoaf]
    #2854642 - 07/03/04 06:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
that's quite an amazing leap you just made there.




Yes, I think it's idiotic to assume that simply because someone comes from a nation and perpetrates an action the leaders are tied in with it too. I didn't make that assumption, I posted that statement to show you how idiotic that line of thinking can be. I'm glad that you saw it
Quote:


reread what I wrote, I've simply indicated that Bush is
treating SA lightly, despite the fact that the children of
SA are raised in a strictly muslim environment that paints
the west and its inhabitants as evil infidels. He is likely
doing this due to his long and lucrative business career
with the country.




I'll agree with that, actually. however, it doesn't show that the Saudi Govt is tied in with the al Q operatives that attacked us on 9/11, any more than the clinton administration was tied with McVeigh
Quote:


But had Clinton run this country for ages, created T McV's
in a school system that taught the youth to despise the
evil muslims in the east and also had family that had
contributed heavily to the terrorist cause, yes, then I'd
consider him tied to the act.




why would the muslims matter with McVeigh?
Quote:


I guess they didn't report this one on newsmax.com or
rightwingnews.com....



I couldn't care less, I don't vote, don't care who president is. I want Kerry to win. The quicker things go down the shitter, the quicker we can fix them.

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OfflineEd1
member
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 150
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2854832 - 07/03/04 08:18 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
Male

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 842
Loc: OR
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Ed1]
    #2855068 - 07/03/04 11:39 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Or maybe Fred Barnes is a liar. Prove it to me that I'm wrong.

How bout this: How 'bout you go see the fucking movie yourself and post a fucking opinion of your own.

THEN maybe someone will listen to your fucking cut-and-past diatribes about whether he's a liar or not.

18 posts in and I already have no use for you.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2858235 - 07/05/04 07:02 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

(NO FLAMING!!!! - trendal)

Edited by trendal (07/05/04 10:05 AM)

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OfflineEd1
member
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 150
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2872815 - 07/09/04 12:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)


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