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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Fahrenheit 911 Irony
    #2837129 - 06/28/04 07:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I find it interesting that while Moore lambasts Bush for allegedly spinning America into war's in Afghanistan and Iraq, he resorts to those same kind of propagandistic and manipulative ploys in constructing his film. He selectively presents information that makes Iraq look completely unprovoked, Bush and Bin Laden best buddies, and the war in Afghanistan over an oil pipeline. I think all of those claims are total bullshit, and an obvious example of manipulating facts. However, isn't using selective information to enflame people what liberals have accused Bush, Powell and Rumsfeld of? If Moore himself isn't flat out lying then he is 'implying' or 'misleading' viewers, words liberals should be well familiar with.

I am seriously hoping that Moore's film is supposed to be deliberately ironic, at least then it would have some redeeming value to an intelligent person. In all reality though, I think Moore is serious (especially in how he takes his own narrow opinion) and really believes in what he is doing; just what he is criticizing. Even more ironic when he accuses the Bush Administration of hypocrisy.


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837167 - 06/28/04 07:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I agree that he does somewhat portray Iraq as an innocent entity, but I think moreso he was showing how the common Iraqi was better off before this war. He rarely showed footage of Saddam or any others in power that were at any point hostile to the rest of Iraq or foreigners. So you kind of derived that on your own.

Second, He did not make it seem like Bush and Bin Laden were best buddies, another derivation in your own mind. He showed how the Bush family and the Bin Laden family were good friends, as well as the Saudi Royals. You made this connection, not Michael Moore.

And as far as the oil pipeline, I didn't get the impression that's WHY we bombed them, but just that the whole gas pipeline through Afghanistan was able to occur with their own 'installed government' with help from the Saudi's...I think.

Moore presented a lot of information that is accurate, and presented a lot of his own opinion. He's the first to admit it, the movie is biased. But as far as using manipulative ploys equal to the Bush administration, No. Your examples were all derived on your own, Michael Moore never made those connections in the theater.


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837177 - 06/28/04 07:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837201 - 06/28/04 08:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I think all of those claims are total bullshit




umm what you think and what the reallity of the situation is are two different things bucko. u can go ahead and be a republican, but bush is a bad and corrupt piece of shit who makes your party look bad. you people on the right should want bush gone as bad as everyone else, so maybe next time u can pick a better canidate. let kerry have four years, see how he does, if he sucks replace him with someone better. it makes me sick when i think about how these corporations are profiting off the blood of kids my age and younger. iraq posed no threat and according to a bi-partisan commsision was found to have NO CONNECTION to 9/11 or al-queda. Bush actually diverted attention and resources from afganistan where the real terrorists. Don't you dare make some argument about how saddam was some evil dictator and we are heros for deposing him. There are many vile dictators in this world, who kill and torture more than saddam ever did, we don't invade their countries. If anyone still believes that Iraq having prior beef with Bush and having the second largest oil stockpile has nothing to do with war they are fucking retarded. Oh, and a few more things, nothing Moore brought up was news to me, its just info that mainstream news will not report. Its scary how close media companies and the government have become. When the gocernment controls who gets liscenses, who can brodcast and who gets tax breaks, it drives free speech right out the window. WHat is reported on television, especially on that garbage spewing fox news channel is getting really close to state tv. Moore at least his admits that his movie is slanted because of his opinions, people know which side he plays for. Whats scary an d where the real brain-washing takes place is on fox news, those fucks actually claim to be "fair and balanced".


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837209 - 06/28/04 08:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I saw an interview with Michael Moore recently, and apparently he believes in an eye for an eye. When accused of taking cheap shots at the people he goes after he said he took that as a compliment, because he felt they deserved nothing less.


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2837469 - 06/28/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Whats scary an d where the real brain-washing takes place is on fox news, those fucks actually claim to be "fair and balanced".





:thumbup:


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2837494 - 06/28/04 09:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

He selectively presents information that makes Iraq look completely unprovoked




Uhhh........ yeah.








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OfflineBush2004
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Blastrid]
    #2837610 - 06/28/04 10:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Blastrid said:
Yes, I agree that he does somewhat portray Iraq as an innocent entity, but I think moreso he was showing how the common Iraqi was better off before this war. .




I don't think too many Kurds would agree with you here. Or the parents who had to watch their children tortured.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837661 - 06/28/04 10:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You Bush people need to pull that Kurd shit off the fucking table. That shit happened while Bush Sr. supported Hussein. He had absolutely no problem with it at the time.

You've been manipulated by the current Bush administration.





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OfflineBush2004
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Learyfan]
    #2837699 - 06/28/04 11:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not talking about then...Im talking about now. THe kurds were living in poverty and oppressed for the past 30 years. This hasn't changed until SH was ousted. The shi ites were oppressed as well. Under SH only 20% of the population lived normal lives. THe rest were in hell.

Please wake up. SH was an evil man.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837711 - 06/28/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Please wake up. SH was an evil man.



So is the man you support in 2004.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: silversoul7]
    #2837726 - 06/28/04 11:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ding ding ding.

Remember, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

But 3 rights make a left.


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OfflineBush2004
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: silversoul7]
    #2837819 - 06/28/04 11:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The only way the "new" Iraq will succeed is if 1) the Iraqi people WANT it to succeed, and 2) the foreign insurgents allow it to succeed or are destroyed. Think about who exactly the resistance is, and what they are resisting. Foreign fighters, crossing the border to kill Iraqis along with anyone else who was involved with Saddam's overthrow? Or well-meaning Iraqis willing to slaughter anyone in hopes of restoring the Sunni-backed regime? They blow up oil pipelines, not a very bright move if they EVER cared about Iraq, as it's the only significant resource they have. They blow up schools, mosques, police stations and whatever else is convenient. Not too concerned about their fellow man. Resisting civilization, if you think about it.

Saddam was a secular leader, from a Sunni background, and those who supported him benefited from it. It sounds to me like they'd rather force their fellow Iraqis to live in ruins, rather than see how the "new" Iraq progresses. That appears to be the way things go in the Middle East anyway: why improve your own way of life when it's easier to knock the other guy back down to your level?

Once those pesky American and "coalition" soldiers leave, nothing will stand in the way of a good old-fashioned civil war. We must succeed in Iraq. Bush has the heart to do whatever it takes in order to win.


Edited by Bush2004 (06/28/04 11:39 PM)


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2837888 - 06/29/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I know Saddam is a bad man. I think he's worse than Bush. Everyone does on this board.

I know he oppressed his people. But that is no justification for war because we are allies with leaders who are just as evil as Saddam. If we really cared about oppressed peoples then we couldn't be. We care about oppressed people like the DEA cares about helping drug users.






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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2838288 - 06/29/04 02:29 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

no morre is simpley speeking out for the majority of america the majority that a unelected president has all but silanced


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2840914 - 06/29/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This thread is way off track. It was supposed to be about Micheal Moore adopting the same tactics he criticizes, not another conspiracy theorists shouting match. I have my own opinion, but that was not the point of the thread. I thought there might be something interesting to learn about ethics and honesty in politicals, but it seems for most here those take a back seat to partisanship.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2840985 - 06/29/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That's ironic.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2845747 - 07/01/04 02:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

THe kurds were living in poverty


So should we invade India, how bout Panama, shit, lets just invade the whole of Africa.
Quote:

oppressed for the past 30 years


I just want you to give my a link or a source that cites Kurd oppression, that's all. Its not that I don't believe you, but if you're going to claim it, you should be able to back it up.
Quote:

Under SH only 20% of the population lived normal lives.


I'm gonna definitely need a link for this claim.
Quote:

THe rest were in hell.


You sound like Moore himself.
Quote:

SH was an evil man.


Yeah, I agree. But......if he was so evil, and that was our main concern, why didn't we just assasinate him. And don't give me that bullshit that its against international law, you and I both know this admin has thrown international law right out the window, it landed next to our civil rights.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Edited by Skikid16 (07/01/04 03:06 AM)


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2845834 - 07/01/04 02:59 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

He selectively presents information that makes Iraq look completely unprovoked, Bush and Bin Laden best buddies, and the war in Afghanistan over an oil pipeline. I think all of those claims are total bullshit, and an obvious example of manipulating facts.




oh so obvious huh? back up your statements - why is it bullshit? and please include your sources. thanks.


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Fahrenheit 911 Irony [Re: Bush2004]
    #2847189 - 07/01/04 01:49 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bush2004 said:
Quote:

Blastrid said:
Yes, I agree that he does somewhat portray Iraq as an innocent entity, but I think moreso he was showing how the common Iraqi was better off before this war. .




I don't think too many Kurds would agree with you here. Or the parents who had to watch their children tortured.





Way off topic... How does this have to do with how Michael Moore portrayed the common Iraqi? You associated an event that happened more than 25 years ago to a filmmaker's current portrayal of current events..... ummm ---?

btw, anyone know what % of population the Kurds make up in Iraq?


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