|
chris77
Archaic Revivalist



Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,105
Last seen: 19 minutes, 40 seconds
|
Does restricted FAE speed up colonization of Sub? POLL 2
#28370805 - 06/23/23 12:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Fellow Shroomerites
As this comes up again and again, as it's obviously discussed controversially and although i have seen some TCs and Mods declare that this is just old knowledge and debunked myths:
i would like to see what you have got to say from personal experience with ACTIVE MUSHROOMS.
Does - in your personal experience - restriction of FAE speed up COLONIZATION OF BULK SUBSTRATE?
-------------------- the observer is the observed
j. krishnamurti
Edited by chris77 (06/24/23 12:34 AM)
|
the_chosen_one
So Called Sage


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,950
Loc: 1984
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: chris77] 3
#28371816 - 06/23/23 08:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
 OK I'LL GO FIRST!!!
My vote is maybe but potentially swayable either way. Before that could happen I would need to know more details. Are we talking pre or post spawning?
60%
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
JW123
Nooby Nooby Noob


Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Tn
Last seen: 2 hours, 7 minutes
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#28371824 - 06/23/23 08:29 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Also are we talking cubes here, or exotics, or all actives in general?
|
the_chosen_one
So Called Sage


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,950
Loc: 1984
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: JW123] 2
#28371838 - 06/23/23 08:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
JW123 said: Also are we talking cubes here, or exotics, or all actives in general?
Damn. You just get right down to the nitty gritty don't you?
 I had at least four or five more questions before I hit that one.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
chris77
Archaic Revivalist



Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,105
Last seen: 19 minutes, 40 seconds
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#28372088 - 06/24/23 12:29 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
 OK I'LL GO FIRST!!!
My vote is maybe but potentially swayable either way. Before that could happen I would need to know more details. Are we talking pre or post spawning?
60%

let's say POST SPAWNING, as during the colonization of grain we give little gas exchange and not more.
-------------------- the observer is the observed
j. krishnamurti
Edited by chris77 (06/24/23 12:30 AM)
|
chris77
Archaic Revivalist



Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,105
Last seen: 19 minutes, 40 seconds
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: JW123] 1
#28372094 - 06/24/23 12:33 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
JW123 said: Also are we talking cubes here, or exotics, or all actives in general?
all actives
-------------------- the observer is the observed
j. krishnamurti
|
gratefulbed
No

Registered: 08/25/20
Posts: 27
Last seen: 9 months, 18 days
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: chris77] 1
#28372123 - 06/24/23 01:36 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Restricted airflow shouldnt speed up or slow down colonizing time on a cake, except for on the surface. Too much FAE on surfaces has caused me overlay and comtam <5% of the time.
|
chris77
Archaic Revivalist



Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,105
Last seen: 19 minutes, 40 seconds
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: gratefulbed] 1
#28372142 - 06/24/23 02:14 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
gratefulbed said: Restricted airflow shouldnt speed up or slow down colonizing time on a cake, except for on the surface. Too much FAE on surfaces has caused me overlay and comtam <5% of the time.
questions is rather if it actually DOES in your experience.
some people report that when they spawn several jars from the same culture and pile up the boxes, that the lower ones (where the weight would have made for a tighter fit of the lids) were faster than the others.
if you have a similar expérience, please vote
-------------------- the observer is the observed
j. krishnamurti
|
JW123
Nooby Nooby Noob


Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Tn
Last seen: 2 hours, 7 minutes
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#28372299 - 06/24/23 06:14 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I for one would still be interested in those questions. I have grown five different actives, but so far only successfully fruited two. The two I have fruited are Ps. Cubensis and Ps. Natalensis. I feel like they both liked extra FAE during colonization. Two others I am working are Ps. Cyanescens and Ps. Azurescens. They are currently in outdoor beds with the ultimate goal of fruiting them in the fall. With the two woodlovers I noticed they really took off when I put them outside so again a point for extra FAE in my opinion. Lastly I am currently working with Ps. Subtropicalis and I have kept the FAE restricted as everyone with way more experience instructs. I have noticed they seemed to colonize better than Cubensis or Natalensis would have in the same environment. Once I have a grow under my belt I may try different FAE setups with them in the future, but you don't fuck around with proven methods on first attempt. TL:DR So in conclusion to this horribly long, rambling post in my opinion for sure four out of five like a fair amount of FAE during colonization.
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 7,340
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 15 hours, 3 seconds
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: JW123] 2
#28372311 - 06/24/23 06:22 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I think we need to define "restricted".
Fruiting conditions are already restricted FAE compared to nature. Shit seems to do pretty fucking well. Pasty was commenting on this during Munch's Q&A stream and I've never seen a full canopy on a cow patty 
If restricted means "close your tub completely and don't touch it for two weeks" then no. Choking out mycelium is not a good idea.
--------------------
Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens
Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
   
"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
JW123
Nooby Nooby Noob


Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Tn
Last seen: 2 hours, 7 minutes
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#28372402 - 06/24/23 08:15 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
They are just like us. A little light choking really gets them going.  Seriously though my subtropicalis are in shoeboxes with the lids unlatched but closed tight with other shoeboxes on top. My cubes and nats were in shoeboxes unlatched with one latch folded in and the lid propped on top leaving a slight gap on one side.
|
the_chosen_one
So Called Sage


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,950
Loc: 1984
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: JW123] 2
#28372723 - 06/24/23 01:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
chris77 said: , as during the colonization of grain we give little gas exchange and not more.
Typically. I believe there are exceptions based on the situation. One of those old knowledge debunked myths just worked great saving some stalled Nats recently. 
Quote:
JW123 said: I for one would still be interested in those questions. I have grown five different actives, but so far only successfully fruited two. The two I have fruited are Ps. Cubensis and Ps. Natalensis. I feel like they both liked extra FAE during colonization. Two others I am working are Ps. Cyanescens and Ps. Azurescens. They are currently in outdoor beds with the ultimate goal of fruiting them in the fall. With the two woodlovers I noticed they really took off when I put them outside so again a point for extra FAE in my opinion. Lastly I am currently working with Ps. Subtropicalis and I have kept the FAE restricted as everyone with way more experience instructs. I have noticed they seemed to colonize better than Cubensis or Natalensis would have in the same environment. Once I have a grow under my belt I may try different FAE setups with them in the future, but you don't fuck around with proven methods on first attempt. TL:DR So in conclusion to this horribly long, rambling post in my opinion for sure four out of five like a fair amount of FAE during colonization.
Those questions have now fallen victim to the mycelial decision tree that is forming. They may come up again later but the tree has spoken for now.
Excellent observations. I especially like the one regarding Subtropicalis. I'd hoped that would come up.
Quote:
SirPsycho said: I think we need to define "restricted".
Agreed. And when to use it as a tool.
I have to admit I was a bit taken aback by a 3 to 2 NO ratio before anyone had even posted and began to clarify. Troubled to be honest. One could interpret that as a touch of close mindedness. Just saying.. could. That could be driven by a lot of factors but I read a lot around here and something made it my first assumption.
Quote:
SirPsycho said:Fruiting conditions are already restricted FAE compared to nature. Shit seems to do pretty fucking well. Pasty was commenting on this during Munch's Q&A stream and I've never seen a full canopy on a cow patty 
If restricted means "close your tub completely and don't touch it for two weeks" then no. Choking out mycelium is not a good idea.
Exactly. I like to apply the Thanos/Miyagi theory in this case. It's pretty much about balance in general..
Quote:
JW123 said: They are just like us. A little light choking really gets them going. 
and sometimes that balance needs to be pushed a little out of whack to establish the parameters of the window we want to work in.
In regards to Subtropicalis. I've noted on more than one occasion that they are air chasers. They exhibit this trait more so than most active species I've dealt with. The mycelium and even the fruits will do just about anything to pursue the air. Does it mean they colonize faster? Maybe. They move and spread faster when looking for air IMO. But then you have to contend with consolidation.
With Cubensis I like to cover and lightly choke (lol) my trays for a few days after casing. I wouldn't say it provides a better pinset, but it does seem to pin up in less time in general. I've ran comparisons in the past. Covering does have a small risk of kicking off any trich, but everything we do here has some degree of risk. Some actions up that risk factor. Sometimes dramatically for some while for others not so much. Anyways, I've found the level of risk for me to be consistently proportionate to the reward so I keep doing it without trying to fall into the Apes in a Cage pit.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
chris77
Archaic Revivalist



Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,105
Last seen: 19 minutes, 40 seconds
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#28372801 - 06/24/23 02:03 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
excellent post imo. thanks. i surely didn't mean to stir up too much of a debate about something that might be called a dead horse by quite a few.
i was actually triggered by a post about an observation on the semperviva thread.
so, this poll is about expérience is all, no theoretical debate. so.., if the no votes just say no without having even made some observation pointing in their direction, that would be rather odd...
-------------------- the observer is the observed
j. krishnamurti
|
Yahra
Meow


Registered: 03/06/23
Posts: 2,810
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 5 hours, 40 minutes
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: chris77] 2
#28372806 - 06/24/23 02:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
If you voted Yes without having even made some observation pointing in your direction, that would be rather odd.
|
the_chosen_one
So Called Sage


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,950
Loc: 1984
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: Yahra] 1
#28372857 - 06/24/23 02:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Well, I definitely like to be odd..
 but I'm still a maybe.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
JW123
Nooby Nooby Noob


Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Tn
Last seen: 2 hours, 7 minutes
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: the_chosen_one]
#28372953 - 06/24/23 03:43 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
What did you do to the stalled culture of natalensis? If you don't want to answer here feel free to me.
|
the_chosen_one
So Called Sage


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,950
Loc: 1984
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: JW123]
#28373068 - 06/24/23 04:57 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
In that particular case it was PF sub in a pint jar. For me the number one cause of stalls in PF sub is water and it's normally near the bottom. It was not detrimentally contaminated with bacteria.. meaning I doubt anything in what we do is 100% free of all bacteria. But there was zero indication of one that would cause problems at all. So I flipped it over on it's lid.
 A tight lid of course. I'm not typically a stupid gambler lol. Is there a risk? Yes. Is it high? No, not really. Why? Because I use lids that are rust free and like new. They maintain a fairly good seal even with metal to glass. Plus I keep the movement of PF sub smooth and do it as little as possible. Did the dry verm layer move? Certainly. Pour some dry verm in a jar and breath on it. Tap it. Pick it up move it around. Pretty good chance some of that verm is going to move and I've never seen or heard it not. With a good seal I would say it's little to zero risk moving the verm a little bit. What happened? The water that was pooling near the bottom was dispersed back into the colonized substrate and became more even near the bottom. Once even, the colony began to move again, quite rapidly and the jar is now completely colonized. My option here was chuck in the compost heap and hope for a 50/50 best or try this first. My record.. if I kept one lol, would probably be a 90% success rate with this old school technique. Maybe better. Over the years I've gotten better and better at identifying the problem in the bud and quickly adjusting to deal with it. There's also a step one can take to avoid this with PF sub, but I was in a hurry and I was confident it was close enough. I hold confidence in high regard, but be careful because it can bite you in the ass sometimes. 
Back to the air topic. I've also had PF subs that are stalled due to mild bacterial infections come back to life after loosening the lid. Just a little. Not even a quarter turn. Breaking the seal at the thread ring is enough when using lids the way I do. Most bacteria we experience doing this can create a high degree of methane. The methane is likely more the cause of the stall than the excretions, though they don't help and could easily be the cause without hitting a methane limit. If the colony responds to FAE in these circumstances it was likely methane that caused the stall. Did the verm move? Yes. Was there a risk? Totally. The way I use lids helps to minimize it by making the path to the sub a little longer and harder for foreign spores to navigate. Is it perfect? No. Especially not right now in the midst of the Great PNW Trich Season, but any other time of year I find it to be quite effective. Do I recommend lid loosening all the time? Oh hell no. This is an emergency measure that I would typically only apply while trying to save something important. Every thing has it's time and place.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
JW123
Nooby Nooby Noob


Registered: 01/17/22
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Tn
Last seen: 2 hours, 7 minutes
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#28373155 - 06/24/23 05:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Thank you for your detailed response. I honestly thought that was still a viable solution to that problem, but I haven't run a PF tek in 18 years or so.
|
the_chosen_one
So Called Sage


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3,950
Loc: 1984
|
Re: Does restricted FAE speed up colonization? POLL [Re: JW123] 2
#28373216 - 06/24/23 06:44 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
|
|
My version of a meltdown. And I got cut short because the boss threw me out. 
I'd get ranting again but..

-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
Edited by the_chosen_one (06/25/23 06:47 AM)
|
|