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OfflineChelonia
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Bad syringe, or did I create this??
    #28370230 - 06/22/23 01:49 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hi, guys -

I got syringes of APE and PE recently and made shoeboxes. The APE ones are growing as usual, but the PE ones are…interesting. One produced a few good-sized mushies that appear to be PE, one did bupkis, and two of them have both a few little PEs (?) and a few APEs growing. They colonized just like normal. Does this sound like I got a weird spore syringe, or could this be a user error of some kind?

Thanks!


Edited by Chelonia (06/22/23 02:01 PM)

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Chelonia]
    #28370234 - 06/22/23 01:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Spores from vendors are for microscopy use only.

Better remove the name, it's against the rules.

Quote:

3. Spores of active species are sold for microscopy use only so mycologists can ID mushrooms. Cultivation supplies are for legitimate legal growing. If you're going to misuse them to grow a controlled substance, keep it to yourself.  Any post which mentions 'such and such' vendor, will be deleted and you'll receive an official warning. No one needs to know where you got your spores, kit, or other supplies.



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OfflineChelonia
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28370254 - 06/22/23 02:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Done!  Thanks for letting me know.

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InvisibleFunguy50
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Yahra]
    #28370255 - 06/22/23 02:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

How did you get do this point? Spores to grain, agar, lc? How long since you spawned to bulk?

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OfflineChelonia
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Funguy50]
    #28370261 - 06/22/23 02:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I made BRF jars and then made shoeboxes. These were made on 6/4.

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Chelonia]
    #28370300 - 06/22/23 02:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You need a casing layer for PE in order to prevent blobs.

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Yahra]
    #28370341 - 06/22/23 03:34 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The best you could hope for from the syringe is that it contains the listed variety, and that you don't get a bunch of random contamination in it.

Looks to me like that threshold has been met.

Shredding and spawning BRF cakes is technically a bit risky,as you're disturbing the mycelium and anything lurking in the interior may get more of a foothold. But again, it looks to me like you dodged that bullet.

People use agar to clean up cultures and narrow down genetics before putting them on grain and expanding them out. If you're not doing any of that, then what you have there is the most random of multi-spore genetics.  There could be multiple incompatible strains which simply won't fruit when they cross paths, genetics that don't respond to your particular fruiting setup, etc.

You might have some issues with your fruiting conditions. Also, as mentioned, PE can be a pain in the ass and usually requires a proper casing layer.

If you want to keep messing around with this setup, I suggest trying regular old intact BRF cakes. If you want to try agar, well, you got some clone-able and print-able stuff there....


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.

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OfflineChelonia
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: B Traven]
    #28370638 - 06/22/23 08:36 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the responses!  I’ve been intimidated by agar, but I’ve got the Easy AF bookmarked and plan to try my hand at it soon.

I used 1/2 pint for casing. This has worked well for me in the past, until this weird batch.

Edited by Chelonia (06/22/23 08:37 PM)

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Chelonia]
    #28370895 - 06/23/23 03:40 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Right on.

If you've been running PE the whole time, then you probably just got lucky before.

Agar is obviously more steps/stuff to learn, but I personally find that it makes all the subsequent steps much easier and more predictable. Plus, if you get a culture you really like, you can actually hold onto it for future use.

The idea of starting from spores blind actually intimidates me a little now lol


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.

Edited by B Traven (06/23/23 03:44 AM)

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OfflineChelonia
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: B Traven]
    #28371131 - 06/23/23 09:21 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I have all the supplies, so I need to get on it!  I have had really good luck with the multispores so far, but I’d love to know exactly what I’m growing.

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Invisibleredrum
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: B Traven]
    #28371289 - 06/23/23 12:30 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
Shredding and spawning BRF cakes is technically a bit risky,as you're disturbing the mycelium and anything lurking in the interior may get more of a foothold.




How is this any different from shaking a jar of grains and using your hands to mix in spawn to bulk?

Is it because the BRF is finer than the grains not as easy to recuperate?

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: redrum] * 1
    #28371296 - 06/23/23 12:37 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Because you inoculate BRF cakes with inherently dirty spore syringes, which you should not with grain jars. You use clean culture for them.

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Yahra]
    #28371335 - 06/23/23 01:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yahra said:
Because you inoculate BRF cakes with inherently dirty spore syringes, which you should not with grain jars. You use clean culture for them.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28371355 - 06/23/23 01:52 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I’ll keep beating the horse, syringes from a good source are absolutely fine. Inherently dirty would mean the mushrooms produce contamination mixed into the spores.

Ape and PE are so slow that the odds of them fruiting if there’s any contam is super low.


The conditions in those tubs need to be dialed in, also why there’s so many side pins.


--------------------
LAGM2020

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: redrum]
    #28371357 - 06/23/23 01:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redrum said:
Quote:

B Traven said:
Shredding and spawning BRF cakes is technically a bit risky,as you're disturbing the mycelium and anything lurking in the interior may get more of a foothold.




How is this any different from shaking a jar of grains and using your hands to mix in spawn to bulk?

Is it because the BRF is finer than the grains not as easy to recuperate?




It’s the same.

It’s actually safer than shaking a grain jar since the entire cake is colonized before being mixed up.


--------------------
LAGM2020

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Invisibleredrum
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: A.k.a]
    #28371363 - 06/23/23 01:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Quote:

redrum said:
Quote:

B Traven said:
Shredding and spawning BRF cakes is technically a bit risky,as you're disturbing the mycelium and anything lurking in the interior may get more of a foothold.




How is this any different from shaking a jar of grains and using your hands to mix in spawn to bulk?

Is it because the BRF is finer than the grains not as easy to recuperate?




It’s the same.

It’s actually safer than shaking a grain jar since the entire cake is colonized before being mixed up.



Lol that's what I figured. Thanks.

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OfflineGrungeman17
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: redrum]
    #28371403 - 06/23/23 02:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Multi spore FTW!!! Lol no refining genetics is definitely going to do you better in the long run but...BUT... if you are messing around with run of the mill cubes strains, none PE none exotic. Like some B+ or GT real basic stuff... i've found that using multispore hasnt been a big deal. Not in the slightest. The only time I have ever produced a weak batch were on cakes...when I do rye to bulk multispore reggy strain. I have pretty much never had a serious disapointment, ive had potency range from mid to high just about no matter what using hpoo,coir,gyp,crushedshell,verm. Maybe luck is EXTREMELY on my side...i dought it at this point but more than likely the quality of your substrate and complexity mixed with not trying to shoot the moon with exotic strains I was able to grow alot of good with the "crapshoot" I think source plays a small roll as well. I love MS. on those grounds. I have expanded into some genentics refining methods after I was able to build a flowhood. But many times I have taken needle to bag on a overnight pop up grow and have had alot of luck.

Im happy to see vendors starting to sell live genetics and things freeing up a bit...its going to get alot of people ahead of what they otherwise would not be capable of on the genetics refining front, and if someone can capitalize on their hard work in that id support it.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Grungeman17]
    #28371528 - 06/23/23 04:33 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Have fun beating the dead horse...

OP, not trying to get into some pointless debate over this, especially since at least half of it is bound to devolve into pure semantincs, so I'm out. This will be my last post in the thread. Just know that you're in the divergence of opinion zone here, and that you've managed to call up an ongoing dispute.

You'll have to figure it all out for yourself in the long run, anyway.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.

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OfflinePandaskis
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: B Traven]
    #28371542 - 06/23/23 04:47 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hmmmm, my thoughts are that if your mushrooms are grown in open air, there is no way there isnt going to be at least a little bit of mold spores and bacteria in the mushrooms spores you collect (which is also collected open air) seeing as its everywhere.

Also from what Ive read the whole point of PF tek is that the granular structure of verm and BRF traps bacteria and halt their growth (something along the lines of that) wouldnt breaking them up presumably release that bacteria to a reservoir of water when shredding to bulk (i know functionally alot of people actually dont have a lot of issues doing this)?

Kind of want to clean up my knowledge if this isnt the case :O

Edited by Pandaskis (06/23/23 04:47 PM)

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Bad syringe, or did I create this?? [Re: Pandaskis] * 1
    #28371700 - 06/23/23 07:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

How often do you see contam when you streak spores from a print? For me it’s been virtually never and that’s with not even taking much precaution.  Putting those same spores in a syringe isn’t going to make them dirty.


There’s no opinion or semantics, just people who have it in their head that spores are filthy because they bought shit syringes or saw other people who bought shit syringes saying it. I’d bet you could grab 100 from sporeworks and find zero contaminants in them.


Yeah the pf cakes are good cuz the chunks will slow down bacteria. Ideally you wouldn’t want to use bacterial anything, but with the cakes there shouldn’t be any uncolonized nutrients left for the bacteria to get a hold of as opposed to shaking a half done jar of grain.


--------------------
LAGM2020

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