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Mushy404
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Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag
#28369430 - 06/21/23 09:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Hey wonderful people! I am wondering what type of water (if any) is the best to rehydrate/mist with but I'll elaborate on my grow in case anyone has tips/suggestions on other aspects too.
I am a noob grower and have currently got 3x 1lb inject and forget bags going - "brown rice flour substrate mix".
All 3 have produced shrooms (granted, not much - 167.5g TOTAL so far - website where I got the bags says 200g+ EACH) albeit at differing rates (1 bag was left in the dark much longer as I thought it wouldnt grow until I took it out of the dark, but it produced many long thin almost colourless pins (very light caps) when I looked it, so I started fruiting on that too.
I opened and harvested no longer than 8hrs after 1 or more veils break. 2 of the bags have had patchy growth, but the 3rd bag I was trying to hold off on growing after incoc'ing was a more fuller flush.
Anyway, I have tried to grow in the past, but get contam every time! This is why I went to the inject and forget bags.
I assumed the only environment I have right now to grow is just too contaminated for shrooms - which might be the case, though I try to keep sterile with alcohol on surfaces and hands.
I do wonder though... is there a best type of water to use? Does adding a touch of alcohol to tap water help, or no?
Should I use bottled water? Maybe my tap water in the UK isnt good for it? Though considering there's a bit of chlorine in it, this is probably not the case.
Any suggestions? Questions?
PS: After harvesting. Should I put it back into the dark for a few days after rehydrating?
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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rumfor69
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404] 1
#28369441 - 06/21/23 09:26 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Congrats on the fruits!
So keeping things in dark places is some old outdated info. We now know mycelium benefits from light at all stages of growth. Petri dish cultures right under LED strips on 12/12 timers. All good
So it sounds like you basically have big brown rice flower cakes in bags and are fruiting them in the bags they colonized in?
Injecting water into them isn't gonna work so great like ya think. They're probably pretty consolidated inside and don't really act like sponge like ya hope.
Now if you check my links and goto BRF cakes you can see people will dunk them and then will put them in water tub fruiting chambers. Perhaps this could be a good route for you?
IF they're 100% colonized you could cut away the bags, dunk them for hrs, roll them in verm, place in a water tub, mist the verm till it's wet then leave them sit undisturbed for a week.
If you're set on Injecting them qith water to try it, I suppose distilled water would be your best sterile bet. Also you should build an SAB for doing all this work and maybe check out the brf cake tek instead of buying premade bags? Or go pro and learn agar..it's really easier than it seems.
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: rumfor69]
#28369493 - 06/21/23 10:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you for the reply.
Considering the repeated contam in the past, I think my environment is just not good for growing mushrooms. Hence why I went with the bags.
To be clear, I have cut all 3 bags open to harvest the few shrooms that have broken veils, leaving the rest to grow more - using clips to close the bags again.
Now, I know I said my environment might not be great for sterile growing, so I am hoping the brief opening of the bags is ok and the hope is that I get more flushes from the now re-closed bags.
I will look into water tub fruiting chambers - never heard of it.
With one of the bags, I poured in a little water - just a little to cover the bottom of the cake for a few hours and then drained it out again before clipping.
Bag 2 of 3 I had put back into the dark again, resealed with no water - but you say that dark may be something overrated.
Bag 3 of 3 is resealed and has not been watered yet. The plan in the morning was to submerged the entire cake in tap water for a few hours, drain and then reseal in the bag.
At any one time only 2 of these bags are in my 27c (80.6f) tub with heat pad. The 3rd is placed on top of the cover in the least light-blocking place.
So you say distilled water is better than tap water. Adding a touch of iso alcohol doesnt make my tap water better?
Sorry for any dumb questions. Just trying to learn
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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rumfor69
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404] 2
#28369504 - 06/21/23 11:03 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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No such things as dumb questions we roll through what we need answered is all.
Iso alcohol is toxic to microbial life so its not good for fungus. Same goes for hydrogen peroxide.
Distilled water is perfect, it's been Distilled. Tap water is probably fine too honestly. But if you want perfect peace of mind distilled is that, but it becomes technically contaminated the second you open it and expose it to open air
Which brings my next point..there's no such thing as "sterile" growing. Everyone's house is filthy af with billions of fungi and bacterial spores everywhere. On surfaces, in the air, on you, everywhere. The key is that fungi colonized nutritious substrates are pretty damn contamination resistant as is. It tough like that!
All exposed to the air and everything they love passive FAE. That micropore tape over them tub holes aint stopping shit plus the lids on loose and isn't sealed in any way

Also spore syringes aren't sterile, spores aren't sterile. They're collected from mushrooms that are grown in the open air, exposed to billions of contams. Injecting them to brf is a dice roll for success. A good dice roll for beginners to get some fruits and have fun, which it seems like it happening for ya so that's good.
If you're using an SAB and Injecting spores into brf cakes, it's just bad luck if they contaminate. Not cause your house environment is dirty. I spilled a bunch of colonized grain and coir on the filthy floor, scooped and scraped it up with my bare hand and threw it back in the tub and kept mixing...it still became a sheet of pins.
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rumfor69
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: rumfor69] 2
#28369508 - 06/21/23 11:14 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Ooo also 80°f is waaaay to hot. Bacteria love them high temps. Heating pads and such is old info. Fungi love cooler temps like keep them at a constant 70°f. They'll flourish and it will slow down bacterial colonies if they're present. Fungi produce their own heat so what you measure at 80°f is even warmer in the substrate so don't do it lol
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: rumfor69]
#28369522 - 06/21/23 11:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I like what you've done with the bottom of your tubs! Ive been thinking about darkening mine too to discourage bottom and side pinning - or at the very least, to encourage upward growth.
What size are those tubs btw buddy?
Yeah, I was told on this forum that heat pads are bad news but at the same time, my supplier is telling me that to get optimal yields I need it here in the UK.
It's getting warmer here now but this heat doesnt last long, so considering how I dont turn on my heating often, the heat pad probably is needed.
I have however just turned it down to 70f - thanks for the suggestion!
Yes, I should have been more specific. Communication error. I understand that things are not sterile, I mean that I am trying to reduce contam by sterilising surfaces, hands etc.
I'll go buy some distilled water for rehydration.
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404]
#28369525 - 06/21/23 11:52 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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PS: I am in the UK and much of the time the temps are below 60f. Sometimes, much below.
I am a cheapskate too and try not to turn on the heating
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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rumfor69
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404]
#28369537 - 06/22/23 12:17 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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LoL I realize the irony that the tubs have been darkened by use of black max strength duct tape. But I and lots of others will tell you it's not what prevents side pins in most cases. Light isn't a pinning trigger like that. And keeping things in the dark then going to the light isn't what makes them pin.
Those tubbs are 66qt but growing like that requires learning grain prep, agar media, and bulk substrate preparation.
Temp doesn't control yields as much as other conditions. Cool temps just make fungi grow slower if they get down into the upper 60's an such.
"Sterilize" in that sense is better to say disinfect. You can't sterilize surfaces and hands and such by means of alcohol wiping. You sanitize/disinfect but, you aren't sterilizing. An SAB is a must have tool for this hobby if you don't have a flowhood. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23990888#23990888 Gotta make one
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johnukguy
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404] 2
#28369618 - 06/22/23 03:14 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushy404 said: Yeah, I was told on this forum that heat pads are bad news but at the same time, my supplier is telling me that to get optimal yields I need it here in the UK.
It's getting warmer here now but this heat doesnt last long, so considering how I dont turn on my heating often, the heat pad probably is needed.
I have however just turned it down to 70f - thanks for the suggestion!
Yes, I should have been more specific. Communication error. I understand that things are not sterile, I mean that I am trying to reduce contam by sterilising surfaces, hands etc.
I'll go buy some distilled water for rehydration.
To add to some of the good advice that you've just been given - in the UK you can use ordinary tap water. Your supplier is full of crap and heat pads are a bad idea full stop. Colonizing substrate in particular is usually several degrees warmer than ambient. So if you're heating things up to 80 then your substrate/mycelium itself may well be closer to the high 80's and that's a little too hot. Also, higher temps make it easier for bacteria and contaminants to outrun the mycelium and you aren't doing yourself any favours by using a heating pad. Seriously, ditch it entirely. As for cleaning surfaces, hands and whatnot, I'm not saying to be outright grungy and dirty but, once we spawn to bulk, sterile technique is over with. So long as your spawn is clean to begin with, you could spit in a tub and it won't contaminate. Unless you have extremely nasty, dirty conditions where you are, you are fine handling things like substrate with bare hands. I would second the recommendation for a SAB as a must have. It's essentially a tote with a couple of arm holes in it, nothing expensive or complicated, but it is important to have and use.
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: johnukguy]
#28369770 - 06/22/23 08:18 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Yikes, Ive just bought a 2nd mono tub with heating pad lol!
Ok, all this info is very helpful, thank you both!
I have more spore syringes on the way, so will try the next all in one bag without the heating pad.
I believe I injected far too many spore syringe into my first every attempt - nearly 20cc/ml lol Think I may have went with 10ml on my 2nd attempt - cant remember, but for this current grow I injected about 5ml into each.
I would like to move away from buying spore syringes for inoc' in the future as I should be able to make them myself (granted my 2 attempts to get prints from these Ash Cambodian failed to drop anything after 24hrs... these dont drop spores? )
I injected 5ml of that syringe into a sterilzed/pasturised LC solution/jar which I bought from my supplier.
It doesnt seem to be forming mycillium growths though - probably because I put it in the fridge right away for a week or 2. I then read that I was supposed to leave it in a dark room temp place for a while first - maybe i've killed it?
Off the back of the above comments I think it's time to get SAB and to also get some Agar dishes and proper LC going. Avoiding the heating pads
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
Edited by Mushy404 (06/22/23 08:21 AM)
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rumfor69
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404] 1
#28369803 - 06/22/23 08:43 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Injecting spores straight to LC is probably most likely going to lead to contamination. Remember spores aren't sterile they always have some amount of inherent contamination with them. Bacteria loves water, LC has lots of water and nutrients, the bacteria in the spore syringe will love the LC.
The only thing spore syringes are good for is Injecting into brf substrates and putting a single drop onto an agar media petri dish. All of which should be done working inside an SAB.
When spores germinate on agar then you can transfer a tiny piece of mycelium to a new agar dish, let it grow awhile there, then transfer a tiny piece again to a new dish. If things go well that third dish could be free of contamination and then you could transfer a tiny piece of that dish to LC.
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: rumfor69]
#28369953 - 06/22/23 10:24 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Oh wow! So with agar, you dont use the first and probably not the second dish either! I didnt know that - I just assumed that if there was no funky green then you're good to go.
Technically no need for spores with the agar dish right? I can just cut a little bit from inside the shroom stem?
Actually, couldnt I just put a bit of the centre of the stem straight into LC liquid?
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
Edited by Mushy404 (06/22/23 10:26 AM)
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johnukguy
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404]
#28369995 - 06/22/23 11:07 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Put mushroom tissue to agar. Remember they are growing in open air so must be treated as contaminated. So yes, definitely put a tiny sliver on agar, preferably from the just opened and available inner tissue of a mushroom, in a still air box of course. Pretty much any tissue will do. And yes, there will be several transfers most likely. While this does take longer than sticking a syringe in a grain bag, what you end up with is clean mycelium, that you can keep going for many, many, many grows, extending your original syringe for so much more than you would get from spores straight to grain. Also, whatever you colonize with the clean mycelium will usually colonize considerably faster than spores.
I still have mycelium going from a syringe I got hold of over a year ago. It's produced multiple good grows and it's still going strong. There's even a few cc's left in the original syringe. You can't do that just with a syringe that's put to grain. Unless you want to try a different strain, you can fairly easily keep things going and get to the point where you have more fruits than you can consume in a year from that one syringe. You'll be having to give some away because you run out of storage for them. I'm not kidding. But, PSA, never tell anyone that you're growing if you are in a non legal place especially.
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: johnukguy]
#28370058 - 06/22/23 11:55 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Gotcha!
Is there something specific you recommend I get to test an Agar transfer for contam? Or is it something I'll be able to see for sure with my naked eye?
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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johnukguy
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404]
#28370066 - 06/22/23 11:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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While you can't always see all forms of contamination on agar, you will see obvious ones, like a lot of bacterial contamination and I would say most molds that are riding along for example. You'll also pretty soon be able to spot clean mycelium and how it contrasts with contaminants. Definitely check out the dedicated, up to date posts and threads on agar. It's also super easy and cheap to make. If you can mix powder and water, you can make agar. You don't even need a pressure cooker to get started with agar. Though I would recommend getting one as soon as you can. You'll likely kick yourself when you find out just how simple and quick it is to make.
EDIT: Also, if you have even a tiny bit of mycelium, you can put that to agar and probably get it going that way, so all is not lost if you've used up all of your syringe or whatever you used originally.
Edited by johnukguy (06/22/23 12:07 PM)
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: johnukguy]
#28370107 - 06/22/23 12:30 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Awesome! Thanks again for the info folks. I'll start moving towards agar & LC's!
I'll pick up a pressure cooker too as Im sure it'll pay for itself pretty quick if I start doing my own substrate etc... particularly as mentioned above if I want to grow in larger quantities.
I do however have another question... Are there any uses for the substrate once the flushes stall out?
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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rumfor69
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: Mushy404]
#28370298 - 06/22/23 02:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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In my links there's a couple threads to check out called the Clean Spawn Checklist and the How It Should Look. They will help you to compare how your stuff looks against clean and contaminated jars or dishes
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Mushy404
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Re: Rehydration of Inject & Forget Bag [Re: rumfor69]
#28370585 - 06/22/23 07:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Cheers
-------------------- Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow!
But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.
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