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Thomas Envisio
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What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today?
#28364328 - 06/18/23 12:29 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today?
As a traveler who has talked with many people abroad about "decriminalization," I have found that MOST people I have interacted with regarding this term do NOT understand what it means.
What is your definition? No need to be shy or feel like you're about to be criticized by me.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio] 1
#28364366 - 06/18/23 01:01 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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I veiw "Decriminalization" as basically a step below or a couple levels below "legalization" on a restriction curve of market or commodity freedom.
Decriminalization typically incures a wide range of lesser enforcement models in leau of other local policies and politics depending, but can mean "no jail" but confiscation or can mean no jail, no confiscation, no funding for any related investigations up to a given amount. And then amounts...is a whole other bylevel of general Decriminalization which will be different everywhere. It means less than full legal retail opperation or investment but leeway for some criminal penalties where full legalization and taxation and legal vetting process has YET TO occur. When that process does occur it becomes "legalized" open for sale and trade with given licenses.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio] 2
#28364386 - 06/18/23 01:17 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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It's not a complicated term. Decriminalized simply means that the laws against possession of the substance are no longer criminal laws. One cannot go to jail for possession. Possession of weed can be illegal in the same way that not paying your phone bill is illegal.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366059 - 06/19/23 06:30 PM (7 months, 5 days ago) |
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i tend to think of it as locally not prosecuted but federally illegal.
typically the feds wont bother to come in where locals have decriminalized.
also usually decriminalized substances wont be sold by major corps... but by individuals. or even bartered or gifted by smaller organizations which is really preferable.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (06/19/23 06:31 PM)
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Ice9
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28366075 - 06/19/23 06:35 PM (7 months, 5 days ago) |
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It is precisely as Enlil stated. Think of it any other way at you own risk.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Ice9]
#28366560 - 06/20/23 02:39 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: It is precisely as Enlil stated. Think of it any other way at you own risk.
what enlil said was at best misleading but at worst just wrong. so why would i follow it.
if your town decriminalizes mushrooms, the state police, and the fbi can still criminally arrest you for it. if we followed what enlil stated that would not be the case.
now generally speaking they do not. but that doesnt mean they wont or cant. so no, what enlil said is less right than what i said and there are likely some level of nuance that i didnt include as well.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28366724 - 06/20/23 07:21 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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If there is a criminal prohibition to which one is subject, it's not decriminalized. If it's decriminalized, that means there is no criminal law to which you are subject which prohibits the conduct.
You seem to have conflated two unrelated ideas. At any given time, within the U.S., one is subject to multiple levels of law. All of those laws apply. If conduct is criminal at the federal level, it's criminal. Right now, possession of weed is a crime in every portion of the U.S. There is no part of the nation where weed has been decriminalized.
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366729 - 06/20/23 07:25 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Thomas Envisio said: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today?
As a traveler who has talked with many people abroad about "decriminalization," I have found that MOST people I have interacted with regarding this term do NOT understand what it means.
What is your definition? No need to be shy or feel like you're about to be criticized by me.
After reading the posts above, I feel the need to make an important adjustment to my question. There are roughly a couple hundred nations (individuated localities) on the present day Earth. Instead of asking you for your current definition of decriminalization, let me re-phrase this to decriminalization globally and in regard to each nation. I think you'll find that there are multiple definitions and articulations.
Here's one:

This was taken from . . .
https://www.nolo.com/dictionary/decriminalization-term.html
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366730 - 06/20/23 07:26 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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That is the ONLY definition.
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366738 - 06/20/23 07:33 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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In the broad sense of the definition, I agree with you. However, in the strict sense, there are indeed many other definitions out there.
Can more of you out there please add your current understanding of the term?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366748 - 06/20/23 07:46 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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I'm sure there are other definitions of every term, but words mean what they mean.
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366756 - 06/20/23 07:55 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Well, let me show you a couple of important examples that I've recently had to deal with in a somewhat personal way.
First, let's get into the nation Chile. Chile has de-criminalized marijuana. I recently visited this nation.
Quote:
Cannabis is decriminalized in Chile, but that does not mean it is “legal.” If you are caught with cannabis in Chile, expect at minimum, to lose your supply plus get a fine.
- https://www.cannaconnection.com/blog/14783-legal-status-chile
Some of the locals said the exact same thing to me in the English language.
Second Example: If you scroll down to the part called "The Meaning of Decriminalization" here, you'll see even more wiggling.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366770 - 06/20/23 08:04 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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I don't see how that differs from the definition you posted above.
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366771 - 06/20/23 08:05 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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I do.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366773 - 06/20/23 08:06 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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That just illustrates your fundamental lack of understanding of the other terms being used within and around the definition.
Do you understand what the words "crime," "criminal," "legal," and "illegal" mean? My guess is that you don't and think you do.
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366776 - 06/20/23 08:07 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Such as...?
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Enlil
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366777 - 06/20/23 08:08 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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1. Crime 2. Criminal 3. Legal 4. Illegal
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366789 - 06/20/23 08:14 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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1. Crime

2. Criminal

3. Legal

4. Illegal

Where are we going with this?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366790 - 06/20/23 08:14 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Good question. Can you answer my question?
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28366803 - 06/20/23 08:23 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Do you understand what the words "crime," "criminal," "legal," and "illegal" mean?
These terms, as well as decriminalized, also have various definitions based on the person and nation/locality. I provided NOLO's law dictionary definitions above to provide one source.
What if we looked up Russia's definitions for these terms? Would we find the identical wording and interpretations for these terms? What about Syria's definition(s) of these terms? Would we still find the identical wording/translation?
I guess the point I've been trying to make this morning is that there are many ways of wording these definitions. There are even more ways to interpret them. You have your interpretation(s), and I have mine. At the end of the day, it is oftentimes up to a cop's interpretation, a judge's interpretation, a jury's interpretation, a criminal's interpretation, a victim's interpretation, etc. This is a dangerous thing for societies. Particularly in regard to psilocybin mushrooms and Cannabis.
I should mention one other thing. While I was in Chile, a couple of people said the police will STILL arrest you if you only have a joint on you, regardless of how they find it. I wouldn't call that decriminalization in the strictest, truest sense of the term. Would you?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28366806 - 06/20/23 08:25 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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A couple of people said....Not much of a source there.
Decriminalized means what I said it means. Anything less is not decriminalized regardless of what the government may call it. The word doesn't change meaning simply because someone misuses it.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil] 1
#28366826 - 06/20/23 08:37 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That just illustrates your fundamental lack of understanding of the other terms being used within and around the definition.
Do you understand what the words "crime," "criminal," "legal," and "illegal" mean? My guess is that you don't and think you do.
weed is decriminalized in denver, so are mushrooms.... atlanta... a few other places.
they are still federal crimes.
your usage is not how it is being used in society. which is kind of like pretending that dictionaries do not get updated with new usage every year....
its also dangerous if people believe somehow if someone says weed is decriminalized here and they think there is no way they can get arrested for it and go blow smoke in an fbi agents face ... or just nearby.
the dictionary term is one thing, the legal position is another.
and somehow the person claiming to be a lawyer once again fumbles it.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28366842 - 06/20/23 08:46 AM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Just because there are no criminal laws at a state level does not mean it's decriminalized. Weed is not decriminalized anywhere in the U.S.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil] 1
#28367131 - 06/20/23 12:47 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Just because there are no criminal laws at a state level does not mean it's decriminalized. Weed is not decriminalized anywhere in the U.S.
and yet governments and lawyers and other officials use these terms, but enlil says nope.
so it must be the case.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28367296 - 06/20/23 02:12 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Because government officials and lawyers are commonly thought of as the pinnacles of honesty
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28367478 - 06/20/23 04:20 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Because government officials and lawyers are commonly thought of as the pinnacles of honesty
when there is a consensus of usage.... language is updated to fit consensus.
those who refuse to go along with everyone else, are known as the village idiot.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28367501 - 06/20/23 04:37 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Thomas Envisio said:

This is the exact definition Enlil gave. I get that posters here find Enlil obtuse, but he could not be any more exacting in this instance if he, as you have done, posted the definition himself.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Ice9]
#28367591 - 06/20/23 05:41 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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i specifically said it was the ´definition' but that it was lacking especially in this context.
we dont actually do language by definition, but definitions by consensus. and in california weed is decriminalized.... in denver weed is decriminialized... and no where is it legal or not a crime in any way.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28367654 - 06/20/23 06:44 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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There are overlapping gov't jurisdictions - federal, provincial, municipal in Canada. Your examples describe weed decriminalized at the state level in California and at the municipal level in Denver - but this doesn't remove federal law.
When Enlil says weed isn't decriminalized in the USA, he's technically correct - because despite any state or municipal changes, weed remains illegal federally. That doesn't mean we need to redefine decriminalization - knowing what jurisdictions apply is enough.
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28367656 - 06/20/23 06:47 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: There are overlapping gov't jurisdictions - federal, provincial, municipal in Canada. Your examples describe weed decriminalized at the state level in California and at the municipal level in Denver - but this doesn't remove federal law.
When Enlil says weed isn't decriminalized in the USA, he's technically correct - because despite any state or municipal changes, weed remains illegal federally. That doesn't mean we need to redefine decriminalization - knowing what jurisdictions apply is enough.
glad you could recap what i said for me. very good. thats exactly what enlil argued against...
and we use decrim typically to define the lowest of those levels. if it was at the highest level we would say weed is legal.
hence you are correct we dont need to redefine it, that is in fact the usage.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (06/20/23 06:49 PM)
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28367677 - 06/20/23 07:05 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Selective reading
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28367678 - 06/20/23 07:05 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Not at all, it's possible for something to be decriminalized nationally while remaining illegal. Portugal is one example of this - personal possession is still legally prohibited, but violations of this law are not a criminal matter.
I don't think Enlil is making the argument that you think he is. It strikes me as being overly pedantic in stating that partial decriminalization (like at state level) is not decriminalization if criminal penalties still exist - it's also technically true.
If you feel my post was just recapping your own, than I'm not really sure what your disagreement is - do you think we need to redefine decriminalization or not?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28367682 - 06/20/23 07:09 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Not at all, it's possible for something to be decriminalized nationally while remaining illegal. Portugal is one example of this - personal possession is still legally prohibited, but violations of this law are not a criminal matter.
I don't think Enlil is making the argument that you think he is. It strikes me as being overly pedantic in stating that partial decriminalization (like at state level) is not decriminalization if criminal penalties still exist - it's also technically true.
If you feel my post was just recapping your own, than I'm not really sure what your disagreement is - do you think we need to redefine decriminalization or not?
beyond the point where it could technically be decriminalized nationally and remain illegal (and yer right i missed that), i said all of THAT as well... well done... fuck we coulda just left it at what i said initially.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (06/20/23 07:10 PM)
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28367683 - 06/20/23 07:09 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Decriminalization is a process, not a result. States can decriminalize their laws, but that only moves the process closer to decriminalized
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28367688 - 06/20/23 07:11 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Decriminalization is a process, not a result. States can decriminalize their laws, but that only moves the process closer to decriminalized
now EVEN YOU are claiming its less straight forward than you initially stated...you should try being a lawyer.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28367695 - 06/20/23 07:15 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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No... that's just what you're reading.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28367696 - 06/20/23 07:16 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Decriminalization is a process, not a result. States can decriminalize their laws, but that only moves the process closer to decriminalized
Fair point. I wasn't really paying attention to the -ed vs -ation distinction.
Quote:
rxb said: beyond the point where it could technically be decriminalized nationally and remain illegal (and yer right i missed that), i said all of THAT as well... well done... fuck we coulda just left it at what i said initially.
If we're saying the same things then why do I get the feeling that you disagree with Enlil's definition of decriminalized, while I don't?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28367698 - 06/20/23 07:18 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Decriminalization is a process, not a result. States can decriminalize their laws, but that only moves the process closer to decriminalized
Fair point. I wasn't really paying attention to the -ed vs -ation distinction.
Quote:
rxb said: beyond the point where it could technically be decriminalized nationally and remain illegal (and yer right i missed that), i said all of THAT as well... well done... fuck we coulda just left it at what i said initially.
If we're saying the same things then why do I get the feeling that you disagree with Enlil's definition of decriminalized, while I don't?
i specifically said that while it was technically correct it left out a lot of important nuance. and also if taken at face value could help you get arrested.
enlil isnt wrong... just woefully too much in the actual definition and lacking in the functional definition.
kind of like being able to lecture for several hours on the structure of knots, and not being able to actually tie ones shoes.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (06/20/23 07:22 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb] 1
#28367751 - 06/20/23 08:10 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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So what's your solution? What nuance would you add?
The only alternative definition I believe you've offered is your legal vs decriminalized distinction - which, as the Portugal example highlights, is still woefully inadequate. I don't see how adopting your colloquial usage would be better than ensuring people understand the definition as it currently stands.
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Lynnch
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28368004 - 06/21/23 12:35 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Weed is de facto legal in california. I can go into a store that pays taxes and purchase weed with near certainty that I will not be arrested during or after the transaction.
What the fuck is the point of this thread???
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28368178 - 06/21/23 04:46 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: So what's your solution? What nuance would you add?
The only alternative definition I believe you've offered is your legal vs decriminalized distinction - which, as the Portugal example highlights, is still woefully inadequate. I don't see how adopting your colloquial usage would be better than ensuring people understand the definition as it currently stands.
the combination of my original answer and your portugal addition is the correct answer. enlil just did a cut and paste of dictionary.com without putting in thought or effort, his appeal to the authority of a non-proven law degree has failed again, every other answer was better than his
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28368251 - 06/21/23 06:43 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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So far, I tend to side with you, rxb. You've tried to be more precise and technical while applying meaning to your words.
Okay, so we've started this discussion, and it's kind of going well. Let's explore more definitions. Here's one from Wikipedia . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28368273 - 06/21/23 07:05 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Thomas Envisio said: So far, I tend to side with you, rxb. You've tried to be more precise and technical while applying meaning to your words.
Okay, so we've started this discussion, and it's kind of going well. Let's explore more definitions. Here's one from Wikipedia . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization
i would say with regards to non-drug things i dont really have much experience or knowledge. i would guess it would kind of be the same where it becomes selective non-enforcement. but like i said i lack experience in that.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28368280 - 06/21/23 07:09 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Enlil
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28368282 - 06/21/23 07:12 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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That's a different word from the one you discuss in the thread title.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28368286 - 06/21/23 07:14 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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True.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28368666 - 06/21/23 12:16 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
rxb said: the combination of my original answer and your portugal addition is the correct answer.
Can you combine them for me?
You suggested we use decriminalized to "define the lowest of those levels" and legal for "the highest level". Correct me if I'm wrong, but lowest/highest refers to local/national here, yes? How does that combine with Portugal, where drugs were decriminalized nationally yet remain illegal?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28368995 - 06/21/23 03:42 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Sure I can do that.
Decriminalization in this context is the selective non enforcement of laws at levels at or below the deregulation body. Decriminalization in this context doesn't always effect the legality of the activity but generally focuses on enforcement and punishment aspects of the activity
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369015 - 06/21/23 03:52 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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That's not nuance - it's ambiguity. How am I, a layman, supposed to interpret "selective non enforcement of laws" in a useful way?
'Laws against possession of the substance are no longer criminal laws' with the added nuance of appropriate legal jurisdiction seems far simpler to understand.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369019 - 06/21/23 03:55 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Decriminalization as I've heard it used has meant switching the offense to a simple infraction rather than an actual crime so it would only have a fine as a punishment.
Words of course mean whatever the people using them beleve them to mean, not what I believe them to mean.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Kizzle]
#28369066 - 06/21/23 04:40 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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so, acording to enlils definition
if its still a crime it has not be decriinalized.
but i am going to try, my best to speek in small clear words, while i have several degrees none are in language or law... so i will try my best to present this better than the so called lawyer did.
here we go:
in the USA, there is a movement to decriminalize drugs, which doesnt always change their legal status, but sometimes does change how the law is enforced or how it is punished.
example, in california weed became decriminalized, but in order to sell it, often dispensaries couldnt use traditional banks as laws would allow assets to be frozen and banks to be charged with crimes, because weed was federally illegal. some aspects of that may have been sorted out but it addresses a difference in being made legal and being decriminalized.
weed is decriminalized in atlanta ga. but is a crime in georgia. even within the city limits of atlanta the state police can arrest and charge you with a crime for possession of weed. even in california the fbi can charge you with a crime for possession of weed.
so in the jurisdiction smaller than the governing bodies (for example within the city limits of denver, you are likely to be safe from charges, but not completely...because the state of colorado may charge you if it so wishes.
enlils definition only covers this from the perspective that the state COULD charge you, completely omiting that its unlikely to do so... chine he misses that nuance.
i think for the most part, this is cut and dry and most people should be able to understand it.
it would also be possible to have a national decriminalization where we decided to leave the law alone but not enforce it. or change the guidelines for the penalties envolved.
again, enlils simple definition leaves these ideas out in the cold.
i choose the term selective non-enforcement to describe this, and it is possible for any law making body to suggest selective non-enforcement, and its also possible for any jury to make a law null, by saying that a person is guilty and acquit them... its called jury nullification im sure enlil can google it.
there are many paths. and its not all super simple. its certainly not as cut and dry as the dictionary.com answer.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369071 - 06/21/23 04:48 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Jesus Christ, and I called Enlil obtuse in this thread... Get a grip man. You arguing an increasingly illogical and increasingly laughable position because you got eBEEF with Enlil
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Ice9]
#28369110 - 06/21/23 05:24 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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what is the illogical position.
thats cut and dry as fuck man
i do have beef with enlil after much harassment, but none of the above is really about the beef. the beef is the beef... his lackluster performance is its own thing and talking about decrim is another thing completely.
none of my position is illogical at all
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369138 - 06/21/23 05:52 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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The illogical position is that these words need to be redefined for some reason, despite being totally adequate to describe this topic
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Ice9]
#28369143 - 06/21/23 05:56 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: The illogical position is that these words need to be redefined for some reason, despite being totally adequate to describe this topic 
well, i didnt say that. so i guess you havent actually been reading what i said. you will need to jump into reality if you want to make a decent point.
what i DID say is that enlils definition didnt cover its generally accepted usage. but i never said it needed to be redefined.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369173 - 06/21/23 06:14 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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You're just getting further and further into the weeds. Let step back a little bit.
There are multiple jurisdictions with simultaneous police power over wherever you live in the U.S. An example would be the state, the county, the city, and the federal government, all of which may have the power to legislate your conduct.
The basic rule is that everything is legal unless there is a law prohibiting it. Those laws can come in many different forms, but they basically fall into two categories, with one (possible) subcategory. The names for these categories also may differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but the basic 2 are:
1. Civil prohibitions 2. Criminal prohibitions.
Some acts are prohibited under both theories. Only criminal prohibitions carry the possibility of criminal prosecution. Anything prohibited under either is still "illegal" Think of Illegal as the general category describing prohibited conduct.
Decriminalization is the process by which something that was subject to criminal prohibition becomes no longer subject to criminal prohibition. The conduct may still be illegal, or it may not be, but it's no longer a crime. Legalization of something that was a crime is also decriminalization, but usually you wouldn't call it that because legalization is a more complete description.
Selective enforcement or whatever other bullshit you're talking about has nothing to do with decriminalization. If an act has been decriminalized, it cannot be enforced by criminal prosecution.
Now, there are many jurisdictions in the U.S. that have decriminalized acts under their particular legal framework, but that doesn't change the fact that another larger jurisdiction which encompasses that same location has not. As a result, there isn't a single square inch of the U.S. where weed is decriminalized.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369238 - 06/21/23 07:01 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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yer getting closer to what i said while faining otherwise
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369244 - 06/21/23 07:03 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Do you mean feigning?
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369277 - 06/21/23 07:26 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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phayning
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369278 - 06/21/23 07:26 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Do you mean feigning?
yeah none of my degrees are in language and when i get on the phone there is no spell check. im crazy dyslexic so i try but i fail at it alot...and unlike you i have no issues admitting my flaws and failings.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369293 - 06/21/23 07:38 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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I have no problem admitting your flaws and failings, either.
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369337 - 06/21/23 08:05 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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thats a really douchey thing to say.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369344 - 06/21/23 08:10 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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You directly criticized me and i chose humor as a response. I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings, but you do have a habit of repeatedly implying I'm a liar, harasser, etc. Maybe you should avoid attacking others if you're that sensitive.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369349 - 06/21/23 08:13 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You directly criticized me and i chose humor as a response. I'm sorry if it hurt your feelings, but you do have a habit of repeatedly implying I'm a liar, harasser, etc. Maybe you should avoid attacking others if you're that sensitive.
i spoke honestly about you and your lackluster performance. i spoke honestly about my disabilities and your lack of being self aware.
you do douchey things like make fun of disabilities and try to cover up when you fail.
it shows your general lack of self esteem and pride and an overactive ego.
and your knowledge of the law seems suspect. these are just observations from the channel... i dont know you... you may actually have passed the bar, but i dont think so.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (06/21/23 08:18 PM)
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369355 - 06/21/23 08:18 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Do you not understand how none of that is relevant to the forum topic? My "performance" certainly isn't. How many bar exams I've passed (3) isn't. My self esteem/awareness isn't.
See, this place is about political topics. Stick to that and you'll remain a welcome participant.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369360 - 06/21/23 08:22 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Do you not understand how none of that is relevant to the forum topic? My "performance" certainly isn't. How many bar exams I've passed (3) isn't. My self esteem/awareness isn't.
See, this place is about political topics. Stick to that and you'll remain a welcome participant.
well, i call em as i see em. you comment about me i comment about you... you keep going... why shouldnt i? just because we dont have equal weapons?
shrug ... if you could match wits you wouldnt need to censor your opponents, you did a poor job of answering the political question... your second attempt was way better.
frankly there is nothing more political than speaking truth to power and taking a stand.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (06/21/23 08:27 PM)
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb] 1
#28369425 - 06/21/23 09:03 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Where did I comment about you, exactly? I said you were getting into the weeds...that's about your argument. I know you feel persecuted, but I haven't said a word about you as a person. You can't say the same, though. Every chance you get, you imply that I am a liar. Any time that I say anything that you perceive to be contradicting what you post, you take that as some kind of attack and then make some childish remark about me.
If that's how you want to present yourself, you shouldn't really be surprised when people start to dismiss you as incapable of rational debate. Truth be told, the only "weakness" you have here is your inability to set aside your emotional attachment to your argument. No one is attacking you, and just because we disagree doesn't mean you're somehow less worthy or being perceived as less worthy. Everyone here says stupid, indefensible shit....Myself probably more than most. That's no reason to take any of this personally or let it devolve into some middle school playground fight.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369603 - 06/22/23 02:25 AM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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you are reaching and implying i have emotions that i do not even have and have not expressed.
its silly. all to cover...
just shameful.
none of this is emotional, any judgement is based solely on the facts as they have popped up. either people read it or they do not. either they see it or they dont.
some of it they obviously CANT see as you delete posts. but non-the-less plenty is available to see.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369605 - 06/22/23 02:36 AM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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I still don't see what the fuck this argument is about.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Lynnch]
#28369936 - 06/22/23 10:14 AM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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Clearly.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369955 - 06/22/23 10:28 AM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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I'd like to hear additional definitions from other members who have not yet posted. The more I look into this issue, the more this term disturbs me. Especially in regard to various nations.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28370121 - 06/22/23 12:35 PM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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Have you considered the fact that other nations may not even have a distinction between criminal conduct and illegal conduct? Also, unless it is an english speaking country, it likely doesn't even have the word "decriminalized," and if it does, it's not likely to have the same meaning.
Ultimately, this is a thread about language, so when you start throwing other languages into the mix, that is going to leave you with a whole lot of inconsistency.
None of this should "disturb" you, however. Maybe you're too personally involved in the issue at this point.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28370131 - 06/22/23 12:43 PM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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Have you considered the fact that other nations may not even have a distinction between criminal conduct and illegal conduct?
Yes, I have.
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None of this should "disturb" you, however.
This entire planet is literally disturbing to me. I travel quite a bit internationally. I have seen too much stuff. I've seen bad stuff in-person. I've experienced bad stuff in-person. I also do a lot of reading, and that stuff is on a whole 'nother level.
When we venture into vocabulary, and in particular legal vocabulary, I really see some major problems. Namely, interpretation by law enforcement versus interpretation by citizens. This vocabulary problem also seems to have an effect on judges, juries, attorneys, oversight committees, agencies, and others. I think we should be having this conversation, and slowly approach a solution that one of us can propose.
You kind of strike me as a very calm person who is not easily bothered by anything. I can be that way, too. However, after having guns and a bat pulled on me - along with many, many other terrible experiences with law enforcement, this topic keeps me FAR from being as calm as you.
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