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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28368178 - 06/21/23 04:46 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: So what's your solution? What nuance would you add?
The only alternative definition I believe you've offered is your legal vs decriminalized distinction - which, as the Portugal example highlights, is still woefully inadequate. I don't see how adopting your colloquial usage would be better than ensuring people understand the definition as it currently stands.
the combination of my original answer and your portugal addition is the correct answer. enlil just did a cut and paste of dictionary.com without putting in thought or effort, his appeal to the authority of a non-proven law degree has failed again, every other answer was better than his
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28368251 - 06/21/23 06:43 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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So far, I tend to side with you, rxb. You've tried to be more precise and technical while applying meaning to your words.
Okay, so we've started this discussion, and it's kind of going well. Let's explore more definitions. Here's one from Wikipedia . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28368273 - 06/21/23 07:05 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Thomas Envisio said: So far, I tend to side with you, rxb. You've tried to be more precise and technical while applying meaning to your words.
Okay, so we've started this discussion, and it's kind of going well. Let's explore more definitions. Here's one from Wikipedia . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decriminalization
i would say with regards to non-drug things i dont really have much experience or knowledge. i would guess it would kind of be the same where it becomes selective non-enforcement. but like i said i lack experience in that.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28368280 - 06/21/23 07:09 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Enlil
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Thomas Envisio]
#28368282 - 06/21/23 07:12 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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That's a different word from the one you discuss in the thread title.
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Thomas Envisio
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28368286 - 06/21/23 07:14 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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True.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28368666 - 06/21/23 12:16 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
rxb said: the combination of my original answer and your portugal addition is the correct answer.
Can you combine them for me?
You suggested we use decriminalized to "define the lowest of those levels" and legal for "the highest level". Correct me if I'm wrong, but lowest/highest refers to local/national here, yes? How does that combine with Portugal, where drugs were decriminalized nationally yet remain illegal?
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28368995 - 06/21/23 03:42 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Sure I can do that.
Decriminalization in this context is the selective non enforcement of laws at levels at or below the deregulation body. Decriminalization in this context doesn't always effect the legality of the activity but generally focuses on enforcement and punishment aspects of the activity
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369015 - 06/21/23 03:52 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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That's not nuance - it's ambiguity. How am I, a layman, supposed to interpret "selective non enforcement of laws" in a useful way?
'Laws against possession of the substance are no longer criminal laws' with the added nuance of appropriate legal jurisdiction seems far simpler to understand.
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369019 - 06/21/23 03:55 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Decriminalization as I've heard it used has meant switching the offense to a simple infraction rather than an actual crime so it would only have a fine as a punishment.
Words of course mean whatever the people using them beleve them to mean, not what I believe them to mean.
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Kizzle]
#28369066 - 06/21/23 04:40 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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so, acording to enlils definition
if its still a crime it has not be decriinalized.
but i am going to try, my best to speek in small clear words, while i have several degrees none are in language or law... so i will try my best to present this better than the so called lawyer did.
here we go:
in the USA, there is a movement to decriminalize drugs, which doesnt always change their legal status, but sometimes does change how the law is enforced or how it is punished.
example, in california weed became decriminalized, but in order to sell it, often dispensaries couldnt use traditional banks as laws would allow assets to be frozen and banks to be charged with crimes, because weed was federally illegal. some aspects of that may have been sorted out but it addresses a difference in being made legal and being decriminalized.
weed is decriminalized in atlanta ga. but is a crime in georgia. even within the city limits of atlanta the state police can arrest and charge you with a crime for possession of weed. even in california the fbi can charge you with a crime for possession of weed.
so in the jurisdiction smaller than the governing bodies (for example within the city limits of denver, you are likely to be safe from charges, but not completely...because the state of colorado may charge you if it so wishes.
enlils definition only covers this from the perspective that the state COULD charge you, completely omiting that its unlikely to do so... chine he misses that nuance.
i think for the most part, this is cut and dry and most people should be able to understand it.
it would also be possible to have a national decriminalization where we decided to leave the law alone but not enforce it. or change the guidelines for the penalties envolved.
again, enlils simple definition leaves these ideas out in the cold.
i choose the term selective non-enforcement to describe this, and it is possible for any law making body to suggest selective non-enforcement, and its also possible for any jury to make a law null, by saying that a person is guilty and acquit them... its called jury nullification im sure enlil can google it.
there are many paths. and its not all super simple. its certainly not as cut and dry as the dictionary.com answer.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369071 - 06/21/23 04:48 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Jesus Christ, and I called Enlil obtuse in this thread... Get a grip man. You arguing an increasingly illogical and increasingly laughable position because you got eBEEF with Enlil
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Ice9]
#28369110 - 06/21/23 05:24 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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what is the illogical position.
thats cut and dry as fuck man
i do have beef with enlil after much harassment, but none of the above is really about the beef. the beef is the beef... his lackluster performance is its own thing and talking about decrim is another thing completely.
none of my position is illogical at all
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369138 - 06/21/23 05:52 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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The illogical position is that these words need to be redefined for some reason, despite being totally adequate to describe this topic
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Ice9]
#28369143 - 06/21/23 05:56 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: The illogical position is that these words need to be redefined for some reason, despite being totally adequate to describe this topic 
well, i didnt say that. so i guess you havent actually been reading what i said. you will need to jump into reality if you want to make a decent point.
what i DID say is that enlils definition didnt cover its generally accepted usage. but i never said it needed to be redefined.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369173 - 06/21/23 06:14 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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You're just getting further and further into the weeds. Let step back a little bit.
There are multiple jurisdictions with simultaneous police power over wherever you live in the U.S. An example would be the state, the county, the city, and the federal government, all of which may have the power to legislate your conduct.
The basic rule is that everything is legal unless there is a law prohibiting it. Those laws can come in many different forms, but they basically fall into two categories, with one (possible) subcategory. The names for these categories also may differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but the basic 2 are:
1. Civil prohibitions 2. Criminal prohibitions.
Some acts are prohibited under both theories. Only criminal prohibitions carry the possibility of criminal prosecution. Anything prohibited under either is still "illegal" Think of Illegal as the general category describing prohibited conduct.
Decriminalization is the process by which something that was subject to criminal prohibition becomes no longer subject to criminal prohibition. The conduct may still be illegal, or it may not be, but it's no longer a crime. Legalization of something that was a crime is also decriminalization, but usually you wouldn't call it that because legalization is a more complete description.
Selective enforcement or whatever other bullshit you're talking about has nothing to do with decriminalization. If an act has been decriminalized, it cannot be enforced by criminal prosecution.
Now, there are many jurisdictions in the U.S. that have decriminalized acts under their particular legal framework, but that doesn't change the fact that another larger jurisdiction which encompasses that same location has not. As a result, there isn't a single square inch of the U.S. where weed is decriminalized.
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369238 - 06/21/23 07:01 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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yer getting closer to what i said while faining otherwise
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: rxb]
#28369244 - 06/21/23 07:03 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Do you mean feigning?
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Ice9
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369277 - 06/21/23 07:26 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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phayning
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: What Is YOUR Authentic Definition For "Decriminalized" As Of Today? [Re: Enlil]
#28369278 - 06/21/23 07:26 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Do you mean feigning?
yeah none of my degrees are in language and when i get on the phone there is no spell check. im crazy dyslexic so i try but i fail at it alot...and unlike you i have no issues admitting my flaws and failings.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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