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OfflineSalaciousB_Crumb
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constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP
    #28361795 - 06/16/23 07:30 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hello to whoever reads this; I need help, I don't know what the problem is with my BRF jars, I stick to the 2:1:1 ratio and for some reason my jars REEK after only 1 or 2 days after sterilization. I don't know what I could be doing wrong, this after having success the first time I made BRF jars in October; I had done the PF Tek once before in 2012 which I also had success on literally the first time I ever attempted the PK tek. I was only able to make like two batches of jars in 2012 and both batches were good except maybe 2 or 3 jars out of the 24 I had made in 2 different batches. Fast forward to October 2022 and I finally got the time, space and materials to start growing again; I whipped up 8 8oz jars and the first batch came out flawlessly, I have a jar of dried shrooms from that batch, but then when I tried to replicate the success and make more jars, every batch of jars has immediately started to stink, No contaminates I could see like mold or anything like that, they just stink super bad and nothing grows...I cant even keep them for more than a few weeks because of the smell and I don't know what I'm doing wrong, PLEASE HELP!!! I'm just wasting my materials by having batch after batch fail. I stick to the PF TEK method religiously but still I cannot seem to replicate my first successes. I can't understand how literally the first time I attempted to grow I had success but now I can't after gaining some experience. It is so frustrating going through all the motions only to take the jars out the pot and then a day or two later the jars stink so bad It makes my entire upstairs area stink.
I made one post before that was more details and it shows 308 people seen it but I only got one response...that's discouraging that so many people seen my post but only one could reply☹️. Please, if you are experienced and have any idea what could be going wrong with my method, I would Be thankful forever if you would reply. Thanks in advance. Peace


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InvisibleDirtnapz
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: SalaciousB_Crumb]
    #28361799 - 06/16/23 07:39 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Are you using a PC or a cooking pot? And for how long?


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InvisibleWizard_Shames
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Dirtnapz]
    #28361801 - 06/16/23 07:42 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

If you steam sterilized the jars they can come out to cool . Are you making sure if your pot steaming that the goal is to steam them not boil or cook so you put things inside the pot to keep the jars elevated if the jars stink buy new ones


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Edited by Wizard_Shames (06/16/23 07:49 AM)

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OfflineNFLProof
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Wizard_Shames] * 2
    #28361805 - 06/16/23 07:49 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Lay out your exact process stel by step. A lot of folks (myself included) may interpret things slightly different in teks. I made a mistake on my second go around and that I didn't on my first attempt. Recounting those exact events helped me realize what I did wrong.


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InvisiblePsil-y-nat-y
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Wizard_Shames] * 1
    #28361806 - 06/16/23 07:49 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Just to check all avenues; do you live with anyone that dislikes your hobby?

Only reason I ask is because I have had a family member sabotage a grow by opening the jars.

They might not even be doing it on purpose


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Invisiblealtford78
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Psil-y-nat-y] * 2
    #28361911 - 06/16/23 09:57 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:thisisheavyman:

wtf man


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InvisibleLuckyTheSpore
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: altford78]
    #28361926 - 06/16/23 10:17 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I have 2 different sizes pressure cookers, different thickness of metals and types, one cooks faster than the other.
One works well, but not enough for the failure rates I am familiar with to continue without a steam sterilizer I eventually bought.
That being said, I had the same problem, one was cooking the grain again, the other not so much (I cooked my grain Al-dente prior to jarring & sterilize) but testing two was too much for me after 3 months.
Maybe cook & sterilize grain in one shot as to not have well done grains that go bad fast.
Also temperature is key, too hot or cold they will not colonize and they need a few days to see results?


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Offlinesprocket
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: LuckyTheSpore]
    #28361965 - 06/16/23 10:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Is your PC getting up to proper pressure? It's hard to tell if it doesn't have a pressure gauge. Check your weight amd make sure it's 15 lbs. Maybe try using distilled water or bottled water.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: sprocket] * 1
    #28362012 - 06/16/23 11:49 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Def sounds like either they’re not sterilized or massive filter problems.


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: A.k.a]
    #28362049 - 06/16/23 12:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

All I have time to do rn is quite your previous post with details.. I’ll be back and maybe I can help but for now..

Quote:

Quote:

SalaciousB_Crumb said:
So, I'll give a short summary of events to give some context... This may seem like a fuck load to read but I promise it is all relevant and tied in, in some way or another.
I've grown for the first time around 10-ish years ago which was 2012,(i will refer to this time here on out as my '2012 run' for simplicities sake) but only for a short time which was about 2 or 3 batches of 12 8oz 'mason' style jars. If I remember correctly my success rate was less than desirable but could have been worse maybe 2 out of 6 were contaminated. Some shit happened and circumstances weren't right for me to continue on growing to really perfect my skill as far as the PF TEK goes. The whole time I didn't go though even one whole bag of vermiculite, and I bought about 4 bags of rice which I had left over (I grinded it myself with a coffee grinder) as well. I had put this stuff into containers and sealed up the remainder of the verm in the bag, which was about 4 qt. and then boxed it up and it went into storage along with my SGFC.
Fast forward to about 6 months ago, I went to my storage, and I got the box and brought it to my new residence. I slowly started getting the rest of the supplies needed to attempt to start to grow again. Being as how I have essentially a shoebox of a room at this new spot to live in with only my important belongings and I don't have a pressure cooker, the PF TEK is my only option; plus, I figured I'd first try to perfect my craft with the PF TEK before I attempt grain or something. Finally, I got all the supplies together; I got another 8 qt. bag of vermiculite, (different brand, but the grade was supposed to be the same as it said, "Fine grade" on both bags) A dozen 8 oz jars & got the spores in a syringe of A++ albino from an online vendor about the end of October and I made my first batch of BRF jars/cakes.
On the first batch I used the left-over bag of verm I had from the first time I grew back in 2012. 4:2:2 ratio; everything went together great; the 2 cups of water went together with the 4 cups of verm and 2 cups of BRF perfectly it seemed in regard to field capacity. The pot I used to sterilize my jars was only so big, so I was only able to make 8 8oz jars in the first batch. Inoculated the jars in my Still Air Box and everything was good, put them away in the closet and didn't check'em for days. About 13 days later I checked them, and they were all successes and had good decent areas of mycelium. Sweet!
(Only They seemed to take a long time to colonize though, so I still have some fruiting in my chamber currently even still)...of course it's when you think you know what you're doing and start to overestimate your abilities is when Shit Hits The Fan🙄. The next batch I did was the rest of the 8 oz jars which was 4 of them. The whole process goes well...or so I thought. They all failed, of course I wouldn't know for a few weeks but in-between that time I went and bought another 2 dozen jars, 12 jars were 8 oz and the other 12 were 4oz jars.
I make some more jars, by the time I was going to start on these 2 new packs of jars I was mostly done with the leftover 4 qt. of Verm I had, except like a cup or so still left over from my 2012 Run, so I opened the new bag and threw that cup inside (the new bag definitely wasn't "fine" at all, in fact it was the most course I have ever seen Verm; Very, very large pieces compared to the Verm from my 2012 run) ..Whatever, it was all I had and I searched the forum and didn't find anything that would lead me to believe it wouldn't work, so I used it.
I put together more jars over the course of mid-December to January with no success; for some reason, ever since I started using the second bag of super course verm the 2:1:1 ratio just doesn't seem to go together perfectly like it did with the verm from my 2012 run. What I mean by that is it doesnt seem like the ratio works together to get to field capacity in terms of wetness. The finished mixture of BRF, Verm & water is extremely dry using just the 1 cup of water. Definitely waaaay under field capacity. I can't understand why all of the sudden it doesn't work like it did before (I had made about 2 batches that were just way too dry and I only really figured it out when I scooped the remains out of the jars & threw them out after determining that they were failures; just failures, not contaminations). I figured out going forward, I would need to add even more water than I did before being as how they were so dry -I know what you are thinking; how tf was the mixture not sopping wet? It wasn't though for some reason with this new verm, Even though there was more water, for some reason it was barely enough to field capacity- like another 1/4th-2/4th a cup of extra water on top of the 1 cup of water if going by 2:1:1 in order for it to get wet enough to where if I squeeze the mixture in my hand, hard, only a few drops squeeze out.  I burned through that whole bag of Verm on failures, (maybe like 2 out of all the jars I had made up till this point in my "story" were actually contaminations with unwanted organism, the rest were just failures to grow anything) so I had ordered yet another 8 pt. bag of Verm shortly before running out of the super course bag, which got delivered to me before I ran all the way out completely; Again I had about a cup and a half left over of super course verm from the last bag, to which I threw in a separate Ziplock bag.
This new bag of verm (which is the bag I still have right now as I type this novel up) also said 'fine grade', only this time it really is fine...like extremely fine, almost like beach sand but slightly bigger grains. I make up yet more fucking jars just hoping for success. By this time, as I'm sure you may have guessed, have been long out of the Albino A++ spore solution in that syringe I bought. Not to worry though, I had taken prints back from my first successes on my 2012 run, & luckily I made quite a bit; (good thing I did as I've wasted so many spores on all these failures already, and as I mentioned before, those first 8 8oz jars I made in November, I still have some in the SGFC( only they seem to be producing like one or two mushrooms at a time as annoying as that is, with more that start but end up as aborts) so I have taken a few new spore prints as the few shrooms sporadically appear to replenish my stocks so I won't run out.) So over the course of all these failures I have had to make about 4 to 5 more syringes worth of "new" spore solutions.
When I opened this 3rd bag of the super fine Verm, as I mentioned before, I had that cup & 1/2 or course Verm that I used together with some of the super fine Verm. I put the jars together, and this was about 4 weeks-ish ago and 3 weeks ago I checked my jars, and I FINALLY HAD SOME SUCCESS AGAIN! It was only about 6 jars I had made that batch and about 5 of them were successes(The only thing I did different with these was the fact that there was both the super fine & course vermiculite were used together, legit the only thing I can think of, but I don't know how that correlate to my success and/or lack thereof, or if it really has nothing to do with the success I had this time and that it is just coincidence that I happened to have success the time I used a combination of the two Verms. Just trying to brainstorm and think of any possible thing as to what is the problem)
They are about ready to be birthed, dunked & rolled as I write this. Then the next batch I did was strictly using just the super fine Verm. For some reason the water content didn't change as it did when I switched to using the course Verm. (I had a theory that the reason why the mixture needed more water when I started using the course Verm, was that there was more surface area because they the pieces of Verm were much, much bigger than the Verm I had used that was left over from my 2012 run. Only, that doesn't seem to be correct, because if that theory was correct, then using this 3rd bag of super fine Verm -being as how it was even smaller pieces than the Verm from my 2012 run- I wouldn't need the same amount of water I was using with the course Verm in order to get it to field capacity and the 2:1:1 ratio of water would be enough & when I squeezed the mix only a few drops would squeeze out. Only the 2:1:1 ratio of water did not go together perfectly to reach field cap. Still needed extra water, about 1/4 cup extra before it was good.) But now every batch of jars I have made with strictly just using the super fine Verm has started to REEK terribly only about 3 to 4 days after sterilization! Like something now is causing them to spoil. Again, there isn't contamination in terms of unwanted organisms growing in the jars, nothing appears to grow, they just like, essentially spoil almost is the best way to describe it & I can't figure out why and it's driving me crazy to slowly start to smell that pungent odor start to creep out of my closet area where I keep my jars and know Immediately that all of them are fucked!
So not only now am I having constant failure, but it also only seems to be getting worse now since I started using this super fine Verm because the spores don't even have a chance to germinate because the fucking jars stink 3-4 days after sterilization and they basically spoil (at least it smells that way, at which point when they start to smell, they get tossed; When I tossed them they seemed wet, like more than they should be. I took this into account and have tried to add just the 1 cup of water in the 2:1:1 ratio, but it's not enough water to the point where when I squeeze it, only a few drops come out.).

(I will make the jars at night, sterilize for 2 hours, then turn off burner and let cool down till morning. Then I end up inoculating the jars sometime the next day so it's not like they are just sitting around for days without being inoculated.)

I have no Idea why things are so fucked off for me and what it is that I am doing wrong. I have tried to include as much information as possible to help assist with diagnosing the issue, but of course I can't help myself when I'm fucking shit up, so I really hope someone can help me. I appreciate you taking the time to read all this if you have made it this far. Please help me, I'm pretty desperate to fix this problem because as of now I'm just wasting time, money & effort all the while I'm not getting any better at growing, it would be different if I was learning through these failures as time goes on and it would be worth it by knowledge gained though trial & error, but that's not what's happening. Every time I think I know what to do better next time, something else happens and whatever I try doesn't fix shit. Please help me!!






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OfflineMadSeasonStudent
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: SalaciousB_Crumb]
    #28362058 - 06/16/23 12:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Maybe the syringe was bunk?


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OfflineVP123
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: SalaciousB_Crumb] * 1
    #28362210 - 06/16/23 02:42 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SalaciousB_Crumb said:

... some reason my jars REEK after only 1 or 2 days after sterilization.

.... but then when I tried to replicate the success and make more jars, every batch of jars has immediately started to stink, No contaminates I could see like mold or anything like that, they just stink super bad and nothing grows...I cant even keep them for more than a few weeks because of the smell and I don't know what I'm doing wrong, PLEASE HELP!!!






If they stink it is clearly contamination. Probably bacterial. Not all contaminants manifest visually like mold growth. And the stench is a clear indication of contamination.

It is very likely that your jars were not sterilized. They were subjected to a sterilization procedure but this doesn't imply they were sterilized. Are you using a pot with a tight fitting lid? We need more details.

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OfflineSalaciousB_Crumb
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Dirtnapz]
    #28363709 - 06/17/23 08:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'm using a tamale pot. I do it for 120 minutes for good measure. I considered getting a PC but right now it's just not viable due to a lack of funds.


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OfflineSalaciousB_Crumb
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: VP123]
    #28363724 - 06/17/23 08:34 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)




This is the pot I use. Now that I think about it, I used a smaller & different pot the first batch that I had success with.


I make sure everything is clean as possible, mix the verm, water & brf, put it in the jars about up to below the threads on the jar. Wipe the sides of the brim clean with a clean napkin & then fill the rest with dry verm. Seal the jars, then put micro fiber tape on the holes & then foil. Set them in the pot & steam for 120min. Then turn off the heat, move to cool burner on the stove & let cool down over night. Next day, put in still air box that has been sprayed down with alcohol & then I use torch to heat the syringe needle before inoculating each jar.


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Mile High Living:cool:

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OfflineSalaciousB_Crumb
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: A.k.a]
    #28363725 - 06/17/23 08:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

What do you mean by massive filter problems?


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Mile High Living:cool:

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OfflineSalaciousB_Crumb
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Wizard_Shames]
    #28363727 - 06/17/23 08:37 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I have added pictures of the pot I use. It has a metal piece so that the water stays below the jars and doesn't make contact.


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OfflineSalaciousB_Crumb
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: Psil-y-nat-y]
    #28363734 - 06/17/23 08:42 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Really I have never told anybody in my house what exactly I'm doing... They have seen me put the jars together a few times but I never really specified what exactly I'm doing.
And my room has a lock that a key is needed to open...
One of the people I do live with though is a total shit head though, so it's not totally out of the realm of possibility...but The only time that would be available for sabotage is after the jars are done steaming & left cooling down in the pot overnight in the kitchen area. I really think (I used the word 'think'because as I said it is not totally out of the realm of possibility but very improbable) I would notice though because of the foil being tampered with.


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Edited by SalaciousB_Crumb (06/17/23 08:43 PM)

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: SalaciousB_Crumb] * 1
    #28363772 - 06/17/23 09:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

try steaming for 180min & see if that changes things? if they are failing before you even inoculate them the only real reason is gonna be improper sterilization assuming you did your dry verm barrier correctly & it isn't getting wet during/after sterilization. maybe throwing more time at it would help.


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OfflineVP123
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: SalaciousB_Crumb]
    #28364692 - 06/18/23 07:47 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SalaciousB_Crumb said:



This is the pot I use. Now that I think about it, I used a smaller & different pot the first batch that I had success with.


I make sure everything is clean as possible, mix the verm, water & brf, put it in the jars about up to below the threads on the jar. Wipe the sides of the brim clean with a clean napkin & then fill the rest with dry verm. Seal the jars, then put micro fiber tape on the holes & then foil. Set them in the pot & steam for 120min. Then turn off the heat, move to cool burner on the stove & let cool down over night. Next day, put in still air box that has been sprayed down with alcohol & then I use torch to heat the syringe needle before inoculating each jar.




It is possible that with a bigger pot there may be temperature gradients that cause temperatures to lower farther away from the boiling water, especially if the lid doesn't have a tight fitting. Or maybe the larger pot requires more heat in order to keep the water boiling. Make sure the lid fits tightly and that you see some steam coming out during the sterilization (so you can be sure the water is actually boiling). If that doesn't work get a different pot or better yes, a presto PC. Increasing the time as the previous post mentions is another option you may want to test. If nothing works, you should really consider a presto cooker.

Edited by VP123 (06/18/23 07:49 PM)

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Offlinesomogyi
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Re: constant failure with PF tek PLEASE HELP [Re: VP123]
    #28364774 - 06/18/23 09:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

To diagnose what is causing this contamination, I would suggest preparing, and sterilising two jars. inoculate one of them with the (possibly contaminated) spores, and leave the other. These must be stored in the same conditions, and will allow you to determine whether there's an issue with your aseptic sterilisation techniques, or spores.

If both jars appear to be contaminated, there's likely an issue with your sterilisation techiques.

If the sporulated jar appears to be contaminated, though the sterilised jar appears to be fine, there's likely an issue with your spores.


PF Tek truly is one of the hardest methods to stuff up. As long as the jars are correctly sterilised at an appropriate temperature and amount of time post-addition of the nutriet, contamination should be eradicated. If there's not issue with your sterilisation and spores, perhaps the issue lies in your filter.


(Lets just hope you're not getting sabotaged, as another member mentioned was possible.)

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