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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims
    #28357026 - 06/12/23 12:17 PM (7 months, 12 days ago)



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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio] * 1
    #28358025 - 06/13/23 07:26 AM (7 months, 11 days ago)

The Peace Tribunal of The Hague means business, as the dutch say "you can take poison to that" meaning "you can be sure of that."


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Asante]
    #28358050 - 06/13/23 07:50 AM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Does the Hague have both of the following...?

1. A secondary secret location in case the facility has become endangered, threatened, or destroyed?
2. A missile defense system better than the S-400?


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio] * 3
    #28358395 - 06/13/23 12:41 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

The Hague at this point is little more than a tool in the hands of US imperialism. Kind of a sad joke compared to what it used to be, really.

Take for example the ICC prosecuting Putin for... relocating children from an active warzone so they wouldn't be shelled to death? :lol:

Clearly the ICC would have preferred the children be murdered, I guess.

In the case of Syria, this is just a continuation of the propaganda narrative about Assad which has been ongoing since 2011 when the CIA tried (and failed miserably) to overthrow his government, supporting ISIS/Al-Qaeda and getting half a million people brutally killed in the process.

The pathetic idiots at the CIA still haven't completely given up on regime change in Syria even though they have completely failed and it will never happen, but they're too stubborn and weak to admit that it's over, and that their narratives are all lies.

Funny how the Hague isn't prosecuting even a single American for literally supporting ISIS and helping them kill thousands.

It's a sad, pathetic joke. Just more proof of how far humanity has fallen since WW2.


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28358417 - 06/13/23 12:59 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28358516 - 06/13/23 02:03 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Nobody should trust Wikipedia, says man who invented Wikipedia
Quote:

He told Lockdown TV that “if only one version of the facts is allowed then that gives a huge incentive to wealthy and powerful people to seize control of things like Wikipedia in order to shore up their power. And they do that.”

He said it (Wikipedia) “seems to assume that there is only one legitimate defensible version of the truth on any controversial question. That’s not how Wikipedia used to be.”




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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28358552 - 06/13/23 02:44 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Oh look, FW is still misrepresenting this article.

I took the opportunity to peruse this link some time back, since it's basically Falcon91Wolvrn03's boilerplate deflection to any post that links to a Wikipedia article. Here's what I found:

Quote:

On Wikipedia’s Left-wing bias:
You can’t cite the Daily Mail at all. You can’t cite Fox News on socio-political issues either. It’s banned. So what does that mean? It means that if a controversy does not appear in the mainstream centre-Left media, then it’s not going to appear on Wikipedia.




Being Wikipedia, the discussion underpinning this decision is publicly available (to both read and participate) - read here - is Falcon91Wolvrn03's argument that Fox News is a reliable source for politics and science? Perhaps they can give more insight instead of letting Larry Sanger speak for them.


Especially when we see the direction Larry takes his criticism:

Quote:

On Covid:
If you look at the articles that Wikipedia has, you can just see how they are simply mouthing the view of the World Economic Council or World Economic Forum, and the World Health Organisation, the CDC and various other establishment mouthpieces like Fauci — they take their cues from them… There’s a global enforcement of a certain point of view, which is amazing to me amazing to a libertarian, or a liberty-loving conservative.




Is Falcon91Wolvrn03 suggesting that Wikipedia is unreliable because it doesn't publish covid disinformation?


Continuing down Larry's rabbit hole:

Quote:

In what ways other than politics does that establishment view come across?
Eastern medicine is basically called quackery in dismissive, quite judgmental, language and so forth. It’s done, apparently without any compunctions at all. Then when it comes to Christianity, the viewpoint on Christianity given is the liberal one that would be found in mainline denominations and liberal Catholicism as opposed to the actual Bible-believing fundamentalist type viewpoint.




Is Falcon91Wolvrn03 suggesting that Wikipedia is unreliable because it explicitly states when traditional medicine doesn't have scientific-backing? Or because it discusses Christianity by way of Catholicism instead of Fundamentalism? I don't think this latter claim is even true, glancing at Wikipedia's article on Christianity.



While Wikipedia is a convenient place to quickly find a multitude of sources on a specific topic, the articles are only as reliable as the specific sources cited. It's not a holy grail of truth, and shouldn't be treated as such. But it really doesn't seem like this Larry guy is someone with opinions worth listening to.


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28358568 - 06/13/23 03:05 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)



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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28358571 - 06/13/23 03:06 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)



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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28358572 - 06/13/23 03:08 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)



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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28358578 - 06/13/23 03:11 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28358643 - 06/13/23 04:10 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Oh look, FW is still misrepresenting this article.

I took the opportunity to peruse this link some time back, since it's basically Falcon91Wolvrn03's boilerplate deflection to any post that links to a Wikipedia article. Here's what I found:

Quote:

On Wikipedia’s Left-wing bias:
You can’t cite the Daily Mail at all. You can’t cite Fox News on socio-political issues either. It’s banned. So what does that mean? It means that if a controversy does not appear in the mainstream centre-Left media, then it’s not going to appear on Wikipedia.




Being Wikipedia, the discussion underpinning this decision is publicly available (to both read and participate) - read here - is Falcon91Wolvrn03's argument that Fox News is a reliable source for politics and science? Perhaps they can give more insight instead of letting Larry Sanger speak for them.


Especially when we see the direction Larry takes his criticism:

Quote:

On Covid:
If you look at the articles that Wikipedia has, you can just see how they are simply mouthing the view of the World Economic Council or World Economic Forum, and the World Health Organisation, the CDC and various other establishment mouthpieces like Fauci — they take their cues from them… There’s a global enforcement of a certain point of view, which is amazing to me amazing to a libertarian, or a liberty-loving conservative.




Is Falcon91Wolvrn03 suggesting that Wikipedia is unreliable because it doesn't publish covid disinformation?


Continuing down Larry's rabbit hole:

Quote:

In what ways other than politics does that establishment view come across?
Eastern medicine is basically called quackery in dismissive, quite judgmental, language and so forth. It’s done, apparently without any compunctions at all. Then when it comes to Christianity, the viewpoint on Christianity given is the liberal one that would be found in mainline denominations and liberal Catholicism as opposed to the actual Bible-believing fundamentalist type viewpoint.




Is Falcon91Wolvrn03 suggesting that Wikipedia is unreliable because it explicitly states when traditional medicine doesn't have scientific-backing? Or because it discusses Christianity by way of Catholicism instead of Fundamentalism? I don't think this latter claim is even true, glancing at Wikipedia's article on Christianity.



While Wikipedia is a convenient place to quickly find a multitude of sources on a specific topic, the articles are only as reliable as the specific sources cited. It's not a holy grail of truth, and shouldn't be treated as such. But it really doesn't seem like this Larry guy is someone with opinions worth listening to.



You're missed my position pretty badly, but at least you asked if it's my position, rather than make believing it is.  The answer to every one of your questions, is "No, none of those are my position".

My position is exactly what I quoted, which isn't a misrepresentation of what Larry Sanger said, as you claim.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28358656 - 06/13/23 04:28 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Yes it is a misrepresentation, because Larry Sanger is using the quoted arguments I supplied to support his claim that 'Wikipedia shouldn't be trusted' in his interview on Lockdown TV. As you apparently recognize by refusing to adopt them yourself, these are weak arguments.

In order to get around this, you've instead leaned into an appeal to authority by removing the above context and placing weight on the title of 'man who invented Wikipedia' to support the premise that Wikipedia shouldn't be trusted - and probably hoped no one else would look past that headline.

A premise without supporting evidence is just an opinion, oh Rum King, not fact.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: chopstick]
    #28358725 - 06/13/23 05:39 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
The Hague at this point is little more than a tool in the hands of US imperialism.





the US has threatened Holland to have the US armed forces invade The Hague to liberate US War Criminals if they were ever charged with any US War Crimes


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28358728 - 06/13/23 05:41 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Yes it is a misrepresentation, because Larry Sanger is using the quoted arguments I supplied to support his claim that 'Wikipedia shouldn't be trusted' in his interview on Lockdown TV.



How do you know Larry Sanger used those quoted arguments to support his claim?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28358747 - 06/13/23 05:53 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

:thisisgonnabegood:


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28358812 - 06/13/23 06:58 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Yes it is a misrepresentation, because Larry Sanger is using the quoted arguments I supplied to support his claim that 'Wikipedia shouldn't be trusted' in his interview on Lockdown TV.



How do you know Larry Sanger used those quoted arguments to support his claim?



Because I, unlike you apparently, don't content myself with reading headlines and chose to critically examine the source material: https://unherd.com/thepost/wikipedia-co-founder-i-no-longer-trust-the-website-i-created/


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28358969 - 06/13/23 09:02 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
How do you know Larry Sanger used those quoted arguments to support his claim?



Because I, unlike you apparently, don't content myself with reading headlines and chose to critically examine the source material: https://unherd.com/thepost/wikipedia-co-founder-i-no-longer-trust-the-website-i-created/



That wasn't the source material, that was an entirely different article.
But let's go with it since you now backed it up.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

On Wikipedia’s Left-wing bias:
You can’t cite the Daily Mail at all. You can’t cite Fox News on socio-political issues either. It’s banned. So what does that mean? It means that if a controversy does not appear in the mainstream centre-Left media, then it’s not going to appear on Wikipedia.




- is Falcon91Wolvrn03's argument that Fox News is a reliable source for politics and science?



Fox isn't a perfect news source (who is?)  But they got a lot of things right that MSNBC was peddling, like the Trump Russia collusion fantasy.  Yet Wikipedia forced us to listen to the MSNBC viewpoint.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

On Covid:
If you look at the articles that Wikipedia has, you can just see how they are simply mouthing the view of the World Economic Council or World Economic Forum, and the World Health Organisation, the CDC and various other establishment mouthpieces like Fauci — they take their cues from them… There’s a global enforcement of a certain point of view, which is amazing to me amazing to a libertarian, or a liberty-loving conservative.




Is Falcon91Wolvrn03 suggesting that Wikipedia is unreliable because it doesn't publish covid disinformation?



In case you didn't know (it seems you don't), the CDC got a lot of things wrong on COVID.  Wikipedia blocked those who were first to call them out.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Continuing down Larry's rabbit hole:

Quote:

In what ways other than politics does that establishment view come across?
Eastern medicine is basically called quackery in dismissive, quite judgmental, language and so forth. It’s done, apparently without any compunctions at all. Then when it comes to Christianity, the viewpoint on Christianity given is the liberal one that would be found in mainline denominations and liberal Catholicism as opposed to the actual Bible-believing fundamentalist type viewpoint.




Is Falcon91Wolvrn03 suggesting that Wikipedia is unreliable because it explicitly states when traditional medicine doesn't have scientific-backing? Or because it discusses Christianity by way of Catholicism instead of Fundamentalism? I don't think this latter claim is even true, glancing at Wikipedia's article on Christianity.



There are a HUGE number of people who say Eastern medicine works.  I know one person who is about as science minded as one can be, and she told me she tried Eastern medicine to help with her back pain after Western medicine had failed, and said it worked surprisingly well.  It may not be scientifically backed, but do you think it should be dismissed so that big pharma benefits?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28359008 - 06/13/23 09:37 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That wasn't the source material, that was an entirely different article.




From your article: "He told Lockdown TV...“

That means your article is referencing the interview that Larry Sanger gave on Lockdown TV here. The quotes from your article are all pulled from this interview, also known as the original source material, but the interview contains further material not included in the article. This is one reason for why seeking the source material is a valuable part of critical consumption of news.

But cool! Not only do you not bother to examine the source material of the news you consume, you apparently don't even know how to accurately determine what is the source material!

Also cool to see that you immediately move away from "No, none of those are my position" once you realized they were necessary to defend your initial claim. No room for self-reflection here eh?


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28359038 - 06/13/23 10:04 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That wasn't the source material, that was an entirely different article.




From your article: "He told Lockdown TV...“

That means your article is referencing the interview that Larry Sanger gave on Lockdown TV here. The quotes from your article are all pulled from this interview, also known as the original source material, but the interview contains further material not included in the article. This is one reason for why seeking the source material is a valuable part of critical consumption of news.

But cool! Not only do you not bother to examine the source material of the news you consume, you apparently don't even know how to accurately determine what is the source material!

Also cool to see that you immediately move away from "No, none of those are my position" once you realized they were necessary to defend your initial claim. No room for self-reflection here eh?



I agree, and I commend you for doing the extra research.  And since you did, I even addressed each of your points to show where you were wrong on your assumptions on both me and Larry Sanger.

But you didn't bother to address my responses; maybe because you now see how you were wrong???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28359047 - 06/13/23 10:22 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

You agree with what? Your inability to accurately determine the source material? Your lack of room for any self-reflection?

Yes, I'm not interested in continuing to argue with you over this, because your answers up to this point have revealed that you are just posting headlines that sound good, and have no real opinion on these positions other than obstinately clinging to your initial claim.

I also know, based off your newly adopted positions, that you still aren't critically examining things - even when I do the initial legwork for you. Otherwise, for example, you would have examined the link to Wikipedia's discussion of Fox News to see that (despite your claim) the network isn't banned from Wikipedia.

Why would I be interested in having this discussion with you, when you're clearly uninterested in critically evaluating your own posts before slinging that shit at the wall?


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #28359064 - 06/13/23 10:47 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
You agree with what? Your inability to accurately determine the source material? Your lack of room for any self-reflection?



I agree that there was more information than my article included.  You always take great pride in pointing out that I don't know everything in the whole wide world about every topic I post.  I suspect no one does.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Yes, I'm not interested in continuing to argue with you over this, because your answers up to this point have revealed that you are just posting headlines that sound good, and have no real opinion on these positions other than obstinately clinging to your initial claim.



I addressed your points, and now you're running and making excuses.  You should respond to those points instead of run.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I also know, based off your newly adopted positions, that you still aren't critically examining things



I know that he was right about the things you're running from discussing.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
- even when I do the initial legwork for you. Otherwise, for example, you would have examined the link to Wikipedia's discussion of Fox News to see that (despite your claim) the network isn't banned from Wikipedia.

Why would I be interested in having this discussion with you, when you're clearly uninterested in critically evaluating your own posts before slinging that shit at the wall?



Wikileaks censored articles that pointed out that Russia-Gate was a giant hoax, and some of that came from Fox News.  I don't get why you defend Wikileaks disinformation.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28359190 - 06/14/23 03:15 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)



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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28359380 - 06/14/23 09:47 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That wasn't the source material, that was an entirely different article.




From your article: "He told Lockdown TV...“

That means your article is referencing the interview that Larry Sanger gave on Lockdown TV here. The quotes from your article are all pulled from this interview, also known as the original source material, but the interview contains further material not included in the article. This is one reason for why seeking the source material is a valuable part of critical consumption of news.

But cool! Not only do you not bother to examine the source material of the news you consume, you apparently don't even know how to accurately determine what is the source material!

Also cool to see that you immediately move away from "No, none of those are my position" once you realized they were necessary to defend your initial claim. No room for self-reflection here eh?




It's pretty clear that fal will see an article title that he agrees with and just post it hoping that no one will read past the title.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28359522 - 06/14/23 12:13 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28359524 - 06/14/23 12:14 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Fox isn't a perfect news source (who is?)  But they got a lot of things right that MSNBC was peddling, like the Trump Russia collusion fantasy. 




I'm sometimes puzzled when people (like my brother-in-law) claim Fox is the most terrible thing ever - yet they've never watched Fox News.  My brother-in-law believes there's no such thing as a black conservative... a claim he often blurts out after having a few drinks during the holidays. 

I suspect many people refuse to look at Fox news because deep down they know they will hear some love and caring, honest truth, and see some folks that are not full of hate and white supremacy.  And it pisses some people off that Fox employs Democrats and Republicans who passionately hate Trump.   

Funny when black conservatives are labeled "white supremacists" and Uncle Tom


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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28359535 - 06/14/23 12:22 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)



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Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28359536 - 06/14/23 12:23 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

:thumbup:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Registered: 12/28/22
Posts: 1,662
Re: Netherlands, Canada Take Syria To International Court Of Justice Over Torture Claims [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28359543 - 06/14/23 12:25 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)



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