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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster] 5
#28395948 - 07/15/23 02:40 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Perhaps the the Nature of the Mystical World? Its Naturally hidden from view because most Humans are unable to preceive it. We feel air blowing across our face yet we cannot preceive the individual atoms that make up the air. It is beyond our abilities of perception.
If Humans were able to preceive the Mystical world with complete ease and at any time we wanted, would it still remain mystical?
I think at the Core, the Universe itself is mystical. Infinite space, trillions of stars and galaxys. Countless planets. Billions and billions of plants, animals, microbes, fungi and Humans. Where did all cone from? Its all very incomprehensible.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth ššš
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | š§ Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method š§ |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#28396714 - 07/15/23 04:48 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Perhaps the the Nature of the Mystical World? Its Naturally hidden from view because most Humans are unable to preceive it. We feel air blowing across our face yet we cannot preceive the individual atoms that make up the air. It is beyond our abilities of perception.
If Humans were able to preceive the Mystical world with complete ease and at any time we wanted, would it still remain mystical?
I think at the Core, the Universe itself is mystical. Infinite space, trillions of stars and galaxys. Countless planets. Billions and billions of plants, animals, microbes, fungi and Humans. Where did all cone from? Its all very incomprehensible.

My friend, its extremely discouraging to share tales from up there down here because down here spiritual ecstasy and mystical experiences get immerdiately stomped into dismissal bins of delusion, pschyosis and mania. people aree disgustingly antispiritual. its a form of social violence.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: Asante] 2
#28396779 - 07/15/23 06:06 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: My friend, its extremely discouraging to share tales from up there down here because down here spiritual ecstasy and mystical experiences get immerdiately stomped into dismissal bins of delusion, pschyosis and mania. people aree disgustingly antispiritual. its a form of social violence.
I feel very similarly to you. The environment I was brought in did not enable me to take mysticism seriously. I thought it was, at best, a naive "feel good" security blanket stemming from death anxiety / insecurity and, at worst, abusive indoctrination. I would hazard a guess that a lot of people in the Philosophy forum are stuck in the same depressed point I was in. Never did I conceive of the possibility there was an ancient truth to it.
But I am somewhat empathetic towards those who a priori reject spirituality out of hand, before coming to truly know it. In their defense, it's often poorly displayed (and misunderstood) by the huckster, clueless spiritualists and war-prone fundamentalists. And then, when, we compare it to the power of what science has accomplished, how on Earth are we to take it seriously?!
So hidden is the mystical domain that I've come up with a (possible) theory that mysticism is intended to look ridiculous on purpose so people don't believe it. By putting on a "front", we obscure the deeper, allegorical meaning. This idea came to me from reading a work on the UFO phenomenon that I really recommend, Aliens and Angels by Keith Thompson. Like, with UFOs, there's clearly enough reports that indicate a real phenomenon is going on, but, yet, there's just enough of a situation that it's also hard to take it seriously. The phenomenon is littered with frauds and stories that end up busting up in the end. Just when you get the whiff of something under your nose, the phenomenon retreats away. Why?
I was writing once to a person who purported to have experienced a close encounter with an alien. Her story had all the hallmarks of everything checking out, but then there was one thing in the end that didn't make sense. It's not an important point what that was, but the point was: it didn't reconcile. But then, on the flipside, the data in the case was enough that it didn't make sense to fully reject it either.
I was also DMing with someone on these forums, and he had mentioned to me how he was "fully convinced" when under the psychedelic state of the reality of the "spiritual realms" or whatever you call them, but when he returns, he thinks they were just delusions. He supposedly has done this 100+ times. What is one to make out of that?
Such is the nature of hiding. When we're "there" in the other worlds everything "makes sense". When we return, we forget. Why? Why?
I don't mean to be full of it, but I hope my words get people to step back and think.
To me, this is the million dollar question behind mysticism. And, no, it's not just as simple as "HE WAS ON DRUGS!!!! SO EVERYTHING HE SAW WAS FALSE!!!!" "THIS world that we see in the sober state is ALL THERE IS!"
And I know it's not that simple, because we are on drugs all the time. The world we see in front of us is a mental construction, and the scientific method has already shown it to be a hallucination as we claim to "see it" in the sober state. For instance, objects appear solid, but really, 99% of it is empty space. Heck, when you get down to it, as I understand it, it's not even matter but abstract concepts that could only be represented by mathematical equations. Whatever the case, we live in hallucination, so it makes no sense to disregard other hallucinations.
Something MUCH more interesting is going on... and regardless of what the explanation is... I don't care if it's a delusion. I don't care if it's actual confirmation of the existence of the spiritual worlds (actually, I do care, but you get the point ), there's something very remarkable going on that is not at all explained, and I don't understand why people seem to not be making a bigger deal of it.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iām supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (07/15/23 06:14 PM)
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28396894 - 07/15/23 08:51 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Shorter answer Asante: I see you. I don't laugh away your religious experiences. I see you. I heare you.
On this forum, you're welcome to share your visions... thank you..
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iām supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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number47
Stranger
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster]
#28412599 - 07/29/23 09:23 AM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said: I don't understand why the mystical world hides itself???!!!!!
Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?
If it was common knowledge it wouldn't be very mystical now would it?
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: number47]
#28412644 - 07/29/23 10:04 AM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
number47 said:
Quote:
solarshroomster said: I don't understand why the mystical world hides itself???!!!!!
Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?
If it was common knowledge it wouldn't be very mystical now would it?
I pretty much equate mystical with ineffable experiences that reveal things about the "real" nature of life & existence. I don't know, it's now pretty obvious to me that mind constructs the Self and world from mental representations, that we're all interconnected, and that therefore there is no true thing such as death. The ineffable transcends this concept since it can't be spoken about, but it can be appreciated in the here and now.
This seems to me like it's a pretty big deal, and I'm not sure why I wasn't taught it.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iām supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: number47]
#28412648 - 07/29/23 10:05 AM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I was listening to Seth speaking (from the other thread), "we will now leave this Esoteric class..." and at first, though I think mistaken, I thought he was implying that it is we mortal regulars that are esoteric, that the hidden is not the mystical, but the causes for it being hidden. (that doesn't make sense, but i think the point is made ) Not the only source for the line of thought, as for example, the saint that said we are the ones doing austerities keeping ourselves separate.
Edited by syncro (07/29/23 10:12 AM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro]
#28413017 - 07/29/23 03:40 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I believe that the mystical world is perceivable by people through the ordinary five senses, and explainable in plain English (provided that I write well-enough.)
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008] 1
#28413020 - 07/29/23 03:50 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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That reminded me of this quote, though I thought it was more directly relating the senses.
Quote:
Åaį¹
kara maintains an Upaniį¹£adic view that minds are materially constituted by sattva, the subtlest aspect of each primary element. Sattva has a qualitative predominance of lucidity and transparency. It makes the mind akin to the reflective surface of a mirror capable of reflecting light, or like a transparent glass that allows light to pass through while illuminating variations on its surface. Unlike minds, mediums like rocks are inert because of their opacity. They lack enough sattva constitution to be reflective even though they are also fundamentally grounded in consciousness.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro]
#28413369 - 07/29/23 11:14 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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In other words, because you are not being a lens.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
#28413370 - 07/29/23 11:17 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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While I believe that there is truth in the archetypal and irreducibly-simple, and that you are saying something elemental, there is something to be said for executive function.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
#28413373 - 07/29/23 11:21 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: While I believe that there is truth in in the archetypal and irreducibly-simple, and that you are saying something elemental, there is something to be said for executive function.
I get that there is a point for executive function, but there's also a point in appreciating the archetypal divine, the allegory of life, that I previously thought was fake and lied into believing was fake.
It's like there's two worlds, but I was being totally denied the archetypal realm in their attempt to snatch me away from learning about our interconnectedness.
We probably evolved towards executive function (that-worldly) as the ego attempted to understand a literal world and miss the allegorical, archetypal meaning (other-worldly). I'm very disappointed in how I was that misled.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iām supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (07/29/23 11:22 PM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28413382 - 07/29/23 11:35 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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There used to be a moral panic about brownies or household spirits, known to have productive relationships with successful families.
Some ministers from about the the time between paganism and the state church supposed that they were angelic servitors, meant to spare mankind of physical burdens -- sometimes, on the scale of factory production and even monolithic buildings.
Others would persecute those people for being witches -- usually, people who were supposed to stay poor.
Depending on your worldview, or depending on your temperament, such entities have a servile quality or might be dangerous. If there is no reason for you to have status, it might upend the social order, as would unexplained riches or a form of free energy. You might accuse your rival of doing it wrong.
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number47
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/23
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster]
#28413647 - 07/30/23 07:55 AM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
number47 said:
Quote:
solarshroomster said: I don't understand why the mystical world hides itself???!!!!!
Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?
If it was common knowledge it wouldn't be very mystical now would it?
I pretty much equate mystical with ineffable experiences that reveal things about the "real" nature of life & existence. I don't know, it's now pretty obvious to me that mind constructs the Self and world from mental representations, that we're all interconnected, and that therefore there is no true thing such as death. The ineffable transcends this concept since it can't be spoken about, but it can be appreciated in the here and now.
This seems to me like it's a pretty big deal, and I'm not sure why I wasn't taught it.
I agree with all that. I'm sort of glad I wasn't taught it. Now that I have ventured off and found it..it's extremely gratifying and appreciated. If I was taught it, I don't think I would have appreciated it as much. Ya feels me?
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: number47]
#28413701 - 07/30/23 08:37 AM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
number47 said:
Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
number47 said:
Quote:
solarshroomster said: I don't understand why the mystical world hides itself???!!!!!
Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?
If it was common knowledge it wouldn't be very mystical now would it?
I pretty much equate mystical with ineffable experiences that reveal things about the "real" nature of life & existence. I don't know, it's now pretty obvious to me that mind constructs the Self and world from mental representations, that we're all interconnected, and that therefore there is no true thing such as death. The ineffable transcends this concept since it can't be spoken about, but it can be appreciated in the here and now.
This seems to me like it's a pretty big deal, and I'm not sure why I wasn't taught it.
I agree with all that. I'm sort of glad I wasn't taught it. Now that I have ventured off and found it..it's extremely gratifying and appreciated. If I was taught it, I don't think I would have appreciated it as much. Ya feels me?
Yes, I feel you. I do agree, if I wasn't taught it, it would be very different than it is now. Though, I will say, it causes me a distressing amount of cognitive dissonance, because it so doesn't fit into my worldview.
But, yeah, like I can tell that "you've seen" the higher planes. And I think that is a pretty big deal. I don't get why people aren't making a bigger deal out of it. I almost feel like that is more of a curiosity than the existence of the mystical domain itself.
Can you help me out here? I smoked weed last night. For 7.5 hours I was fully convinced I discovered a riddle behind the universe. Not, thinking that I did, mind you, but fully and absolutely of the experience that I discovered something absolutely incredible about our existence. I came up with the most genius ideas, my dreams came alive, memories that were previously obscured were unearthed. I became "early man", the first ape to light the ceremonial marijuana bud and usher himself into another dimension. I saw myself through that ape. I was the archetypal first man to return the "universal knowledge" back to that-worldly plane. Patterns reassembled themselves to create impossible meaning, too uncanny to just dismiss as a delusion, a man gone mad. It was impossible to describe. I saw space & time as just a construction of the mind. My room "disappeared", and the world spoke to me. I'm not sure how more ineffable it could have gone...
Is this a normal reaction from weed? Is everyone experiencing something similar to that?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iām supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (07/30/23 08:58 AM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28414165 - 07/30/23 03:48 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said: Patterns reassembled themselves to create impossible meaning, too uncanny to just dismiss as a delusion, a man gone mad. It was impossible to describe.
It's possible to describe it as a pareidolea or hypnocampic state. Some people believe this is how spirits start to manifest, particularly elementals from nature.
Quote:
solarshroomster said: I saw space & time as just a construction of the mind. My room "disappeared", and the world spoke to me. I'm not sure how more ineffable it could have gone...
Thought stopping, fixed gaze, and auditory disorientation are all possible steps to inducing trance.
Some people look into a crystal ball on black velvet, into a puddle of squid ink, into a hat, or I have even heard of a daisy being used to block out all external stimuli. They say, where there is a hollow part in the buttress roots of a tree, or in a certain well, that is where the fairies live. They hold this-and-that hollow thing up to their ear, or go into a hollow kind of place with accoustics that echo.
Quote:
solarshroomster said: Is this a normal reaction from weed? Is everyone experiencing something similar to that?
It's arguably schizotypal and is a reported reaction from weed -- probably mild overdose, or if you are already psycholigically prone to dissociation.
aimho
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 23 hours
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
#28414259 - 07/30/23 05:22 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Quote:
solarshroomster said: Patterns reassembled themselves to create impossible meaning, too uncanny to just dismiss as a delusion, a man gone mad. It was impossible to describe.
It's possible to describe it as a pareidolea or hypnocampic state. Some people believe this is how spirits start to manifest, particularly elementals from nature.
Quote:
solarshroomster said: I saw space & time as just a construction of the mind. My room "disappeared", and the world spoke to me. I'm not sure how more ineffable it could have gone...
Thought stopping, fixed gaze, and auditory disorientation are all possible steps to inducing trance.
Some people look into a crystal ball on black velvet, into a puddle of squid ink, into a hat, or I have even heard of a daisy being used to block out all external stimuli. They say, where there is a hollow part in the buttress roots of a tree, or in a certain well, that is where the fairies live. They hold this-and-that hollow thing up to their ear, or go into a hollow kind of place with accoustics that echo.
Quote:
solarshroomster said: Is this a normal reaction from weed? Is everyone experiencing something similar to that?
It's arguably schizotypal and is a reported reaction from weed -- probably mild overdose, or if you are already psycholigically prone to dissociation.
aimho
Well done! Are you a psychiatrist by chance or have friends in the field? You seem very well attuned to certain psychological facts.
I like what you mentioned about elementals and "pareidolia". As one hypothesis, I think pareidolia could be an example of how we are pattern-recognizing beings constructing the world from the patterns we conceptualize. It's like there's a background of empty noise, but we create meaning from it when we construct the world and the Self-concept. Take any given random stream of data, and we use salience to identify patterns.
But what if the universe itself was (as it is) full of patterns? And all were symbols like in the air, as it were, streaming life into creation.
This gets into the concept of derealization. It's almost like your life / my life is a simulation from a computer game that streams Reality, and we make patterns out of it to create worlds.
What for instance are we to make out of this mystical experience reported here?: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6450226
Quote:
aside from sacred plants,
i remember having a mystical experience at Charles de Gaulle International Airport during my stay in Europe two summers ago.
some sort of synergy of destiny and a particular trance song playing on my mp3-player seems to have inevitably resulted this. 
it was nice weather outside too.
the terminal looked majestic with these bright pillars of sunlight radiating in through the glass windows around me.
it was a spectacular unity of elements, that's all i will really add with words. 
luckily tonight i found the track which i have since long been searching for. 
i only listened to it once or twice since that event, so when i hear it now, i feel as if the melody and the sound attract my collective memories from that day and integrate them back into some sort of re-livable sample of the "mystical feeling" i experienced then.
cannabis helps me reflect back with greater vivid detail, the music, the vibes.. 
good times. 

Existence is all very magical. Wow.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iām supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster]
#28414273 - 07/30/23 05:32 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said: You seem very well attuned to certain psychological facts.
Psych tests say to get help, but in consensus reality I am considered an achiever and fun boss.
More, later.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
#28414414 - 07/30/23 07:31 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
trance song playing on my mp3-player... it was nice weather outside too.
The person is disengaged, before receiving enlightenment.
Building up this ball of energy and stress and hope and positive visualization will eventually cause the person to burn out from bearing the burden of it.
The other half of the equation is to release it into the universe.
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