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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28356650 - 06/12/23 07:50 AM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Oh that reminds me. During the dispensation of the Yoga Vasistha, Rama was a boy, and asked this very question, why, of Vasistha. And Vasistha replied, to the effect of, you are too young to appreciate love stories. So there it is, a love story, a game of hide and seek.


Edited by syncro (06/12/23 07:55 AM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro]
    #28356720 - 06/12/23 08:54 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

fior most people the deeper world is hidden most of the time, for some it is prominent every day, like for me.

you guys do this world while i bring back loot from the other side.

you guys dont have time to triple sift reality.

Keep pumping air for me while i'm down there collecting pearls for us all.

One of them is Omnicyclion, see sig.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinebubbleguts365
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28356814 - 06/12/23 09:51 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

solarshroomster said:
I don't understand why the mystical world hides itself???!!!!!

Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?




Oversimplified answer:

Advanced spiritual practitioners spend decades slowly rewiring their brains to be able to reduce or permanently disable the influence and action of ego/false self.

Drugs can suppress its influence temporarily, but the mind/brain's baseline will bring it roaring back unless a ton of groundwork has been done and attachments sufficiently weakened. Memory of the experience even coupled with intellectual understanding is not enough to shake its influence otherwise.


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Offlinesolarshroomster
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: bubbleguts365]
    #28356905 - 06/12/23 10:59 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

bubbleguts365 said:
Quote:

solarshroomster said:
I don't understand why the mystical world hides itself???!!!!!

Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?




Oversimplified answer:

Advanced spiritual practitioners spend decades slowly rewiring their brains to be able to reduce or permanently disable the influence and action of ego/false self.

Drugs can suppress its influence temporarily, but the mind/brain's baseline will bring it roaring back unless a ton of groundwork has been done and attachments sufficiently weakened. Memory of the experience even coupled with intellectual understanding is not enough to shake its influence otherwise.





Wow!!!!!! Wow!!!!!

Why is no one FREAKING out about this? You just explained that the perception of the higher planes exists, and no one is making a big deal about this except me? I think everyone on the Shroomery should literally be in complete awe of what you just wrote. It's absolutely incredible.

Let me explain...

You write:

"Memory of the experience even coupled with intellectual understanding is not enough to shake its influence otherwise"

Wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow. That's so specific to my thoughts, and you nailed it.

The thing is that I came to the same understanding really in isolation. Meaning, I appeared to just "receive" knowledge that later turned out to be in correspondence to a lot of the ideas you mention. This is not possibly "just a coincidence". That is, I came to this understanding telepathically through the substances, so I now see that some ancient knowledge is being imparted on me outside of my conscious, this-worldly influence. I think this may be similar to how butterflies know how to go back home, even though, under each generation, none of them makes it fully the way back. Somehow, they're just programmed "to know".

Here's the background: I was raised very skeptically towards mystically phenomenon. To be entirely honest, it FEELS like it's a security blanket. But the more I've explored it, the more it's become apparent that it's a real thing. Now, I'll admit that the interpretation of the mystical domain is an open question (whether it's "just fireworks going off in the brain" or something more), but it's very existence can no longer be of any doubt. And that, to me, is the greatest discovery of my LIFE.

I'M FREAKING OUT!!! (in a good way)

The reason why I'm skeptical is because, you just hear the same old debates of science vs. religion (these have been rehashed so many times, I don't need to bring them up again), there's a bunch of spiritual bullshitters, and it just feels like a security blanket. But, now I see that just because some of it is fraudulent, there's no reason to throw the "baby out with the bathwater". And similarly, the only reason I have to doubt it now was just that my old worldview was not in correspondence to it.

I've seen the future before in visions, and, in the past, I would just chalk it up to extremely unlikely coincidence. But, some of them are so coincidental I find it really hard to not, at a minimum, put up my hands and say "maybe, I don't know". I've literally had it happen where I've thought of something I've never thought of before appear in my mind, and then I stepped into my parent's bedroom, and they played the television, and it said the same thing.

For me, the thing that really proves the phenomenon of the mystical to me is the ability for it to BE so elusive in the first place. The fact that it eludes our normal consciousness to me, is the proof that there exists other states of mind that could reveal information. To dismiss and limit reality based on the lack of these states now seems incredibly naive to me. The bottom line is that there are other states of consciousness that can reveal things about reality beyond what we normally perceive. This is enough to dismantle the idea of  a "consensus reality". THINK HOW MIND BLOWING THAT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Do you remember the first time you discovered the existence of the mystical realms? What was it for you that convinced you? What does life now feel like to you?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


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Offlinebubbleguts365
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28357062 - 06/12/23 12:48 PM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

solarshroomster said:


Wow!!!!!! Wow!!!!!

Why is no one FREAKING out about this? You just explained that the perception of the higher planes exists, and no one is making a big deal about this except me? I think everyone on the Shroomery should literally be in complete awe of what you just wrote. It's absolutely incredible.

Let me explain...

You write:

"Memory of the experience even coupled with intellectual understanding is not enough to shake its influence otherwise"

Wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow. That's so specific to my thoughts, and you nailed it.

The thing is that I came to the same understanding really in isolation. Meaning, I appeared to just "receive" knowledge that later turned out to be in correspondence to a lot of the ideas you mention. This is not possibly "just a coincidence". That is, I came to this understanding telepathically through the substances, so I now see that some ancient knowledge is being imparted on me outside of my conscious, this-worldly influence. I think this may be similar to how butterflies know how to go back home, even though, under each generation, none of them makes it fully the way back. Somehow, they're just programmed "to know".

Here's the background: I was raised very skeptically towards mystically phenomenon. To be entirely honest, it FEELS like it's a security blanket. But the more I've explored it, the more it's become apparent that it's a real thing. Now, I'll admit that the interpretation of the mystical domain is an open question (whether it's "just fireworks going off in the brain" or something more), but it's very existence can no longer be of any doubt. And that, to me, is the greatest discovery of my LIFE.

I'M FREAKING OUT!!! (in a good way)

The reason why I'm skeptical is because, you just hear the same old debates of science vs. religion (these have been rehashed so many times, I don't need to bring them up again), there's a bunch of spiritual bullshitters, and it just feels like a security blanket. But, now I see that just because some of it is fraudulent, there's no reason to throw the "baby out with the bathwater". And similarly, the only reason I have to doubt it now was just that my old worldview was not in correspondence to it.

I've seen the future before in visions, and, in the past, I would just chalk it up to extremely unlikely coincidence. But, some of them are so coincidental I find it really hard to not, at a minimum, put up my hands and say "maybe, I don't know". I've literally had it happen where I've thought of something I've never thought of before appear in my mind, and then I stepped into my parent's bedroom, and they played the television, and it said the same thing.

For me, the thing that really proves the phenomenon of the mystical to me is the ability for it to BE so elusive in the first place. The fact that it eludes our normal consciousness to me, is the proof that there exists other states of mind that could reveal information. To dismiss and limit reality based on the lack of these states now seems incredibly naive to me. The bottom line is that there are other states of consciousness that can reveal things about reality beyond what we normally perceive. This is enough to dismantle the idea of  a "consensus reality". THINK HOW MIND BLOWING THAT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Do you remember the first time you discovered the existence of the mystical realms? What was it for you that convinced you? What does life now feel like to you?




I've had some sober mystical experiences. The first "peak experience," that approached the ego-dissolution experience did leave me quite shaken. Mine was in a spiritual context, but I could not find adequate support for integration... it was quite overwhelming to sit with the feeling that the everyday world now appeared at a "dream level" of realism, while that experience felt like the only exposure to "reality" I'd ever had. I think the way people find answers to that very unnerving sense very much dictate the trajectory they will take from there.


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: bubbleguts365]
    #28357161 - 06/12/23 02:19 PM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Tumbling this around in my head, I'm not sure there is a time anyone with consciousness doesn't know about spirit. If they know about spirit, then they have a sense of the message of liberation or salvation which is the seed. I could be off.

We hear about the spiritual openness of babies and children, and I had such experience at 1.5 years being baptized. I don't have any coherent memories of before that... but consciousness itself is spiritual awareness. :shrug:


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro]
    #28357300 - 06/12/23 03:57 PM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Another thing coming up that is hidden and is perhaps more of a concern - we can have spiritual experience which is awesome. What is hidden is karma, that which is not manifesting immediately.

Once we get spiritual experience, and can get it fairly easily, there can be smugness. Bask in the fruits no doubt. They are given. But just because we have that doesn't mean there isn't work to be done.

It depends on belief systems. It is said we have a storehouse of karma that we are not even using in this life. So make sure and burn a bunch with your eye of wisdom.
:inbread:


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: Asante]
    #28357633 - 06/12/23 08:16 PM (7 months, 12 days ago)

"Keep pumping air for me while i'm down there collecting pearls for us all."

This is added to intention. :thumbup:

Sent a couple bucks worth. It didn't occur to me, but the energy sent could be called prana, which is what I call everything, but it's also called vital air...

I am underrating air, the elements above. This is used to purify the subtle body in bhuta shuddhi.


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Invisiblespinvis
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Posts: 586
Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster] * 2
    #28357905 - 06/13/23 03:51 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Anthony De Mello - The Song of the Bird - THE LITTLE FISH;
"“Excuse me,“ said an ocean fish. “You are older than I, so can you tell me where to find this thing they call the ocean?”

“The ocean,” said the older fish, “is the thing you are in now.”

“Oh, this? But this is water. What I’m seeking is the ocean,” said the disappointed fish as he swam away to search elsewhere.


He came to the master in sannyasi robes. And he spoke sannyasi language: “For years I have been seeking God. I have sought him everywhere that he is said to be: on mountain peaks, the vastness of the desert, the silence of the cloister, and the dwellings of the poor.”

“Have you found him?” the master asked.

“No. I have not. Have you?”

What could the master say? The evening sun was sending shafts of golden light into the room. Hundreds of sparrows were twittering on a nearby banyan tree. In the distance one could hear the sound of highway traffic. A mosquito droned a warning that it was going to strike….And yet this man could sit there and say he had not found God.

After a while he left, disappointed, to search elsewhere.

Stop searching, little fish. There isn’t anything to look for.
All you have to do is look."


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Offlinebubbleguts365
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: spinvis]
    #28358049 - 06/13/23 07:49 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

spinvis said:
Anthony De Mello - The Song of the Bird - THE LITTLE FISH;
"“Excuse me,“ said an ocean fish. “You are older than I, so can you tell me where to find this thing they call the ocean?”

“The ocean,” said the older fish, “is the thing you are in now.”

“Oh, this? But this is water. What I’m seeking is the ocean,” said the disappointed fish as he swam away to search elsewhere.


He came to the master in sannyasi robes. And he spoke sannyasi language: “For years I have been seeking God. I have sought him everywhere that he is said to be: on mountain peaks, the vastness of the desert, the silence of the cloister, and the dwellings of the poor.”

“Have you found him?” the master asked.

“No. I have not. Have you?”

What could the master say? The evening sun was sending shafts of golden light into the room. Hundreds of sparrows were twittering on a nearby banyan tree. In the distance one could hear the sound of highway traffic. A mosquito droned a warning that it was going to strike….And yet this man could sit there and say he had not found God.

After a while he left, disappointed, to search elsewhere.

Stop searching, little fish. There isn’t anything to look for.
All you have to do is look."





De Mello was amazing. All those books released after his death were already edited and essentially ready to publish when he died. He wasn't in it for the fame or money, so he just left them for us as a nice parting gift.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: bubbleguts365]
    #28358376 - 06/13/23 12:17 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

solarshroomster said:
Advanced spiritual practitioners spend decades slowly rewiring their brains to be able to reduce or permanently disable the influence and action of ego/false self.




I experience this, in part, as sensory deprivation and thought stopping.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28358384 - 06/13/23 12:23 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

One consideration is that we are the coarser beings, whose thinking comes across as more shouty, vulgar, and violent.

I think that, someday, in the setting of a great court trial, the Accuser of Saints is going to attribute so many horror movie motifs to mankind.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28358524 - 06/13/23 02:08 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Although we see man and whatever, effects of thought forms, are capable of this to an extent, interestingly Theosophy reviews the creation accounts in the esoteric where such forces specifically, what would be the devil are said to be misidentified and otherwise are part of necessary creation. Blavatsky brings the Occult into the mix with ancient Brahmanism, on the surface standing against the conclusions of Christianity and defending these forces, though on a deeper, different level not plainly promoting anything would sound evil (that I saw), more a technical, historical analysis. But then I can't tell if she's very smart with bad intentions, for in the analysis itself the feel of intentional quality is perhaps neutral, and how thorough has been the programming in God, Devil dyad. Perhaps the details are not as important as cruising past the accuser regardless of what it is, and or working to help free of it.

The yogas themselves in terms of subtle anatomy also may parallel these same forces disputed, for example, the aspects in the structure of the chakra system have entities of a sort that are addressed through sound vibrations to pierce, enlighten, pass through in the elevation; these are not considered devils but more like minor gods to appease.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro]
    #28358531 - 06/13/23 02:21 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

what would be the devil are said to be misidentified and otherwise are part of necessary creation




I might use the word, evocation, if I wanted to be nitpicky.

I feel that all the possible forms have been created and are in a sort of Guf or storehouse. 

Making them tangible seems to result in a sort of shadow or negative version or scapegoat or equal-but-opposite reaction akin to karmic debt.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28358566 - 06/13/23 03:03 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

The guf or storehouse sounds eerily like sanchita, our mountain of karma.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28358576 - 06/13/23 03:10 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Think of it, in a Shrodinger's cat kind-of way. There is not one but two cats, to the best of my reckoning.

In my private interpretation. I am not speaking on behalf of any one tradition, or telling you, you will go to Hell, if you don't believe in this one thing.

I think, every manifestation results in an equal-but-opposite reaction in consensus reality, and viewing it from a purely-materialistic perspective, it will always seem to appear to be satisfied by physics as they are known in consensus reality. In other words, as a coincidence or synchronicity, with a conventional explanation.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28358861 - 06/13/23 07:33 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

In afterlife narratives I read recently, as in the astral every thought goes there and is manifest.

In some yogic views, in the higher ages, thoughts brought more of an immediate ramification. Now in the Kali yuga, we are more insulated from thoughts in the heavier material, in terms of manifestation. The grossness may be merciful for us who do not control them.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro]
    #28358887 - 06/13/23 07:59 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Seems to relate to the talk around idols, in impermanence and dissatisfaction, separating self in the elements and looking for completion in the false context. In Acim is implied we, the Sonship, have the power and make the guf and the appearance of reality in the falsehood.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28359367 - 06/14/23 09:36 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

"Why does the mystical world hide itself?"

I keep turning this question, captivated. A parallel may be what is it that we want, what is our goal?

I found that I am not really clear, that there not is a goal without conflict in spite how much I seem to take to it. The goal is largely accompanied by the thoughts around not being able to have it, at least at different times. This is contrary to a true decision.

People say there need be no goal (in meditation, say, being), but it wouldn't have been approached without a purpose. Where purpose is confused, we are not without goals or need.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Why does the mystical world hide itself? [Re: solarshroomster] * 2
    #28362267 - 06/16/23 03:37 PM (7 months, 8 days ago)

This isn't seriousness:lol: 
Always there in front of our face. We are gazing into right now. It never moves.
What we're seeing as the mundane world is just happening in the brain. Although right now the only thing we see or experience is inside the visual cortex of our brain. We do not see as it is we see the brains construct of it.
The subtle thought that this isn't it is what keeps us from seeing the "mystical" it is always there inseparable from the mundane.

Quote:

a leaf even dry, dropped, has no independent existence for its birth growth decay .
it's finally a part of the infinite universe,

if it drops where can it go , except to the earth?
where is the earth,?

it's not independent of galaxy, which is again not independent of the sky,
we feel sun and stars are remote as if of no concern, but they are a part of the whole , without them , i cannot imagine my existence , my birth even

why to look my house is only the four walls, when the city is mine, whwnthe country, when the earth, when the universe is really is mine , it's really my universe, like my body and limbs
my whole personality is not limited to some feet height, it is far far , it is all every one of us is really parts of one another , no separate

i am there , since you are all there , since the whole universe is there
i am alive since the universe is alive

leaf is alive, since the tree is alive
there is no need for leaf thinking that it is leaf
where is it's beginning and end ?
even earth holding the tree is a part of tree part of leaf .
every dust particle is part of infinity ,
it's existing since universe is existing
so dust particle can claim ''i am the universe''




Quote:

Is there anything called externality, or not? Is there such a thing called the external world, unconnected with you? Think over this matter. People think the external world is unconnected with them.  They say, “What does it matter what happens anywhere? I walk on the road independently.” This cannot be done because if the world is completely unconnected with you, you would not desire for anything in the world. Who will desire for a thing with which they are unconnected? That there is a desire to possess things as if they are totally external to one's own consciousness shows that though they appear to be external, they are not really external. The world is a universal being; it is not an external object. The moment you think it is external, you will be in great trouble. On the one hand you want to possess the things of the world, and on the other hand you cannot possess them because they are external. This is the tragedy of samsara.

The panacea for overcoming this difficulty is to not consider the world as external to you. There is nothing external to you, really speaking. Everything is connected to you through the universal fabric of interrelationships. This is something very new that you are hearing. Everything is connected to everything else. Whether you think through a scientific or logical way or through meditation, you will realize that nothing in the world is totally outside you. The whole point is, if it is totally outside, you will not hanker after it. Who will hanker after a thing which is not connected with you? That shows there is an undercurrent of connection between you and everything else.




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