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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider....
#2835075 - 06/27/04 11:39 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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...Christianity the teachings of christ?
I dont.....and I'll explain why...with heavy research, facts, and a well established, unbiased opinion after I see your responses.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,694
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2835087 - 06/27/04 11:45 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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No. They are other people's interpretation of Christ's teachings, if Christ did, in fact, exist. There is no historical proof of this; it is merely a matter of faith for Christians.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2835097 - 06/27/04 11:49 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Christ did exist...or at least a man named "Jesus" existed around the time the Bible says he existed. We know that much from other historical findings.
supermarket: No, Christianity is not the teachings of Christ....it is the religion that was built around the teachings of Christ. Big difference in the final product
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,694
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: trendal]
#2835106 - 06/27/04 11:51 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do more research.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2835108 - 06/27/04 11:52 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Show me...if you've already done your own
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: trendal]
#2835117 - 06/27/04 11:57 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good replies.
Yes...christianity is mainly Saul's interpretation of Christ's teachings.
Jesus , the man never wrote a single thing that was put into the bible, as many of you know.
Also....the Romans edited and replaced much of the scripture, that they felt werent fit for the masses....or needed to be changed. I dont claim to know their intentions (although I can guess) but Jesus's teachings are certainly not portrayed in their entirety in the Bible.
Also....anytime you translate something from one language to another, you are going to lose some meaning. Anyone bilingual knows that, and can verify.
I will say honestly...Jesus was never jewish.....and came from a sort of "underground" sect of a commune called Essenes. There is much, much more to his teachings and life than the Oppresors of this world will have you believe.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2835119 - 06/27/04 11:57 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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To make my point a little more clear: I'm not saying Jesus, as a literal figure from the Bible, necessarily existed...only that I'm fairly certain someone existed whom these stories (the Gospels) were written about.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: trendal]
#2835125 - 06/27/04 11:59 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports the findings of MORE scriptures and gospels, which were selectively withheld from the Bible.
If you do your research, you can find out a lot.
Now....I have many OPINIONS also...if anyone wants to hear my opinions, I'll say them....but I'm holding the assumption that too many people might misread what I'm saying, and think I'm calling them fact.
I'd love to share my opinions about Jesus's teachings....and I don't claim for them to be fact, although in my Life they are.
Anyone interested?
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2835132 - 06/28/04 12:02 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Definitely interested! I always welcome another viewpoint
Have you read the "Gospel of Thomas"?
I must admit, that's the only "withheld" document that I know of by name...though I'm quite certain there are many many others the Catholic Church doesn't talk about (and actually calls heresy).
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2835136 - 06/28/04 12:06 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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the essenes have a beautiful philosophy.
i believe it is something like: God is in the darkness and the light, however they saw what men turned towards the light did and didnt like it, so they embraced the darkness (not evil, just literal darkness.) that is where they saw the face of god, and what they made there prayers to.
am i correct on this? its been a while since i read about them, however i do like the idea in my memory.
response: the bible is a manufactured patriarches guidebook, to be read by the masses to keep the people who were/are in power in exactly the same place. imo
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: Todcasil]
#2835148 - 06/28/04 12:13 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I actually have a physical copy of the Gospel of Thomas, but haven't read it completely yet, although I've read a lot
Here are some things I disagree with:
1) Jesus was a jew. I Disagree. Both Mary and Joseph were thought to be Jewish, yet they were part of an Essene Community. The Essenes, both Northern and Southern, both rejected the "standard" old testament, and considered it corrupted by the Roman Authorities. They believed they had the ONLY ACCURATE Law of Moses, and that the first 5 books of the Old Testament had been edited and the true law removed, by the Romans.
So technically, they WERE jewish. However, I do not believe Jesus Christ was jewish. It was, indeed, the Pharisees, those who went strictly by the Jewish Old Testament, who critizied and attacked Jesus the most.
The Jewish officials rejected Christ, and considered him dangerous to their establishment.
His teachings were very different than that of the Old Testament. I do believe, that he followed the "TRUE" Teachings of Moses, and I do believe he used Judaism to relate to the disciples and other people.
He needed a common bridge (Judaism) to link him to other people, and so he used that, as it was their common religion.
2) Jesus died for our sins Again, I highly disagree. I have read the Gospels of Mathew and John, and I believe what Mathew was talking about, if you actually read it, is much different. Jesus's death did not save anyone. I believe the importance of his death is that he was willing to give his life, in order that his seed (gospel) might be spread into the world. At any time, he could have avoided death, yet then the true message, and his true mission, would not have been complete. So I believe Thats the importance of his death. In a sense, he DID die for our sins. But he really only died to show us the way.
3) Jesus ate fish Although it specifically says in the bible, that Jesus was to STRICTLY avoid, and NEVER partake of the eating of flesh, nor the drinking of strong drink....many christians believed that Jesus ate Fish. I disagree. I don't believe Jesus ever ate meat, or drank anything intoxicating (up until his crucifixtion) as this would have greatly effected his divine essence.
4) Jesus is the Son of God Jesus's message was not that he was the "Son of God" in the way Christians like to believe. Rather, he was Christed (Annointed by Light). A Christed human is a divine one, and is influenced and aware of the Heavens, and not influenced by his lower chakras. What jesus had in the human form, everyone could have. Christians are taught that he was "special" and "greater" than us, that we cannot become him. IF you read the bible, it says differently. Whatever Jesus was beyond human form, I do not know. However, it was made very clear in the bible that "Any man who believes in my words, will go on to do greater deeds than I have, because I must go to my father".
The bible specifically mentions reincarnation (If you disagree....then I suppose you should re-read the part where Jesus explains to his discples that John The Baptist was Eliah (sp?) born again"
The concept of reincarnation was hidden IMHO.
Also....I believe Jesus taught and explained how to cure all illnesses...using Love...energy work....fasting....and prayer.
I believe some of his dangerous concepts (heaven on earth) were erased or skewed.....because the oppressers of this world wouldnt be able to hold control if those teachings made public.
Also....Read "Life of Saint Issa" if you guys get a chance. Its the buddhist view of Jesus's life and what he came here to do.
I dont believe he performed "miracles"....as in doing things out of thin air......whatever he did was done still according to the laws of the universe....but he knew how to create things with his hands...like no other human on this planet does (more brain power, more understanding, more capacity for Love)
These are just MY BELIEFS. DONT KILL ME!
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2835153 - 06/28/04 12:15 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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By the way.
I still believe in the Bible, and love the book to death. Anyone who reads it with an open , loving heart...will certainly learn great lessons.
I am just claiming that it is not the complete life story, and teachings of the man you all know as Christ...nor an accurate description of him, and what he did.
I guess you can say the New Testament is a good introductory to jesus, but there is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more about him.
I believe Jesus was a normal man like you and me, and Christ received him. Christ became born into him, through what he did.
However, I do believe this was meant to be, and destined to happen before he was born.
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf
Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2835175 - 06/28/04 12:24 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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your point 4 really stuck out to me, ive always believed this, but have been chastized by my christian aquentances and by my old churches... even by some close friends. but you have a good perspective (lol, i only think that because its close to mine, how sad?) anyways, muy bueno.
peace
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: Todcasil]
#2835245 - 06/28/04 12:42 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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thanks.
Im just trying to have conversation here
I dont claim to hold any truths! I've just found out things according to my research , experience, and belief, that I want to share.
All I say I believe, but its just that, belief.....I certainly dont want anyone to be offended by what I've said.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2835706 - 06/28/04 07:40 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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My friend, Rob, speaks highly of a book titled The Hidden Gospel. It explains likely flaws in Aramaic to Roman translation, and other interesting facts(?).
-------------------- "...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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ChiefThunderbong
Inhale to theChief
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2836084 - 06/28/04 10:42 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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No. I believe Jesus was a great man, and taught many good things.......but Christianty today is the result of centuries of powerhungry elite changing the rules to suit their needs.
-------------------- Yeah spinnin' around again yea caught in a tailspin
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2836096 - 06/28/04 10:48 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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If Christians lived solely by the teachings of Christ, I'd have no problem with Christianity. Unfortunately, that asshole Paul had to ruin it for us.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2836155 - 06/28/04 11:17 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Jesus did exsist, maybe not in the term of having a body but in the love in our hearts. Many wise men many prophets and saints have blessed us with there presence. Any one that has a reverence for life and lives to love, has a bit of Jesuses work in there soul.
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
#2836192 - 06/28/04 11:34 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is why I love shroomery.
Everyone has something to add, and it just completes this thread more and more.
You guys are truly awesome!
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2836202 - 06/28/04 11:38 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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werd! "cough" I mean Ahmen!
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: tekramrepus]
#2836257 - 06/28/04 11:58 AM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think christianity evolved believing and studying upon specific writings and not all writings. Why did this happen ? Well, IMHO mainly because religion was used - and is still used - as an instrument of power rather than an instrument of spirituality. Therefore, many writings - maybe the most important - were hidden from the public. I believe those scriptures have the true meaning of freedom, be it material or spiritual. After all, why the scriptures refer the messiah as a saviour and liberator ? I also believe Christ message is much more profound than anyone can imagine. Take a look at the gospel according to Mary Magdalene. Just a few chapters can give you a glimpse about what men didn't understand ...
Quote:
The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene
Chapter 4
(Pages 1 to 6 of the manuscript, containing chapters 1 - 3, are lost. The extant text starts on page 7...)
. . . Will matter then be destroyed or not?
22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.
23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.
24) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
25) Peter said to him, Since you have explained everything to us, tell us this also: What is the sin of the world?
26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.
27) That is why the Good came into your midst, to the essence of every nature in order to restore it to its root.
28) Then He continued and said, That is why you become sick and die, for you are deprived of the one who can heal you.
29) He who has a mind to understand, let him understand.
30) Matter gave birth to a passion that has no equal, which proceeded from something contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in its whole body.
31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.
32) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
33) When the Blessed One had said this, He greeted them all,saying, Peace be with you. Receive my peace unto yourselves.
34) Beware that no one lead you astray saying Lo here or lo there! For the Son of Man is within you.
35) Follow after Him!
36) Those who seek Him will find Him.
37) Go then and preach the gospel of the Kingdom.
38) Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.
39) When He said this He departed.
Chapter 5
1) But they were grieved. They wept greatly, saying, How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If they did not spare Him, how will they spare us?
2) Then Mary stood up, greeted them all, and said to her brethren, Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for His grace will be entirely with you and will protect you.
3) But rather, let us praise His greatness, for He has prepared us and made us into Men.
4) When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.
5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.
6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.
7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you.
8) And she began to speak to them these words: I, she said, I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to Him, Lord I saw you today in a vision. He answered and said to me,
9) Blessed are you that you did not waver at the sight of Me. For where the mind is there is the treasure.
10) I said to Him, Lord, how does he who sees the vision see it, through the soul or through the spirit?
11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision and it is [...]
(pages 11 - 14 are missing from the manuscript)
Chapter 8:
. . . it.
10) And desire said, I did not see you descending, but now I see you ascending. Why do you lie since you belong to me?
11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me.
12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly.
13) Again it came to the third power, which is called ignorance.
14) The power questioned the soul, saying, Where are you going? In wickedness are you bound. But you are bound; do not judge!
15) And the soul said, Why do you judge me, although I have not judged?
16) I was bound, though I have not bound.
17) I was not recognized. But I have recognized that the All is being dissolved, both the earthly things and the heavenly.
18) When the soul had overcome the third power, it went upwards and saw the fourth power, which took seven forms.
19) The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth is the excitement of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the foolish wisdom of flesh, the seventh is the wrathful wisdom. These are the seven powers of wrath.
20) They asked the soul, Whence do you come slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
21) The soul answered and said, What binds me has been slain, and what turns me about has been overcome,
22) and my desire has been ended, and ignorance has died.
23) In a aeon I was released from a world, and in a Type from a type, and from the fetter of oblivion which is transient.
24) From this time on will I attain to the rest of the time, of the season, of the aeon, in silence.
Chapter 9
1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.
2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.
3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.
4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?
5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?
6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.
7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.
8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.
9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.
10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.
From, http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: MAIA]
#2836436 - 06/28/04 12:43 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some excerpts i would like to comment,
Quote:
38) Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.
How much of this has been done by christianity ?
Quote:
10) I said to Him, Lord, how does he who sees the vision see it, through the soul or through the spirit?
11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision and it is [...]
... the best part is lost, what a shame. Anyway, between many explanations, i can also relate this to the entheogenic experience. Our mind is the first step to gain spiritual knowledge. It's ourselves -in the first place- the ones feeding both spirit and soul with what we perceive. What does our spirit and soul see or understand when our mind is on a blissful state ?....
Quote:
31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.
... or different realities. I see it like an escape, where you can go in body and spirit to heal what is needed to be healed and get back with a focused mind and a stronger attitude.
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: Question to the shroomery masses: Do you consider.... [Re: MAIA]
#2837988 - 06/28/04 10:56 PM (20 years, 2 months ago) |
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very awesome
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