Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 11 hours
Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28334763 - 05/25/23 09:09 PM (7 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
I think posing is an honest phase in the great work..

Thereby analyzing and questioning the self and its actions.. and the actor of being.




I can agree that it is a phase for most if not all, although I am not sure it can be characterised as being honest :smile:



I feel I'm finished most of my posing conjecture.. to be honest..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetinymadidea
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/23
Posts: 30
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28335534 - 05/26/23 12:28 PM (7 months, 30 days ago)

My first thought was: "by being unreasonably suspicious" haha.

I think that expecting the deceptiveness (denial) of our own egos is part of the answer. Knowing that I am more likely to deceive myself than accept the answer is a big help because then I can look out for it.

In a way that's the difficulty of the whole course: trying to discern when I am choosing the ego or not (or when I am choosing denial or not). The right answer only comes from looking at the wrong one so if you're on the look out for your own ego then that's pretty good going. All this moves you towards humility: yes I am in my ego but Jesus is by my side. As soon as you can accept your choice for the ego and forgive yourself then you're there. You have to see yourself choosing your ego and be very gentle with yourself for doing so. That's when you are being successful at the course.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 11 hours
Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28336464 - 05/27/23 03:24 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

To be honest if you want to win the course it will take sublime faith in God.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28336624 - 05/27/23 08:05 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

I sort of quick picked a page, seeing ego in the index, and got a
good one.

Quote:

V. The “Dynamics” of the Ego

1. No one can escape from illusions unless he looks at them, for not looking is the way they are protected. ²There is no need to shrink from illusions, for they cannot be dangerous. ³We are ready to look more closely at the ego’s thought system because together we have the lamp that will dispel it, and since you realize you do not want it, you must be ready. ⁴Let us be very calm in doing this, for we are merely looking honestly for truth. ⁵The “dynamics” of the ego will be our lesson for a while, for we must look first at this to see beyond it, since you have made it real. ⁶We will undo this error quietly together, and then look beyond it to truth.




continued https://acim.org/acim/chapter-11/the-dynamics-of-the-ego/en/s/150


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetinymadidea
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/23
Posts: 30
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28337170 - 05/27/23 04:03 PM (7 months, 28 days ago)

LOVE that passage, thank you :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28337953 - 05/28/23 07:44 AM (7 months, 28 days ago)

It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system, even beyond as it is the premise. There are two makers of this world is said, and all is very well in releasing false premise. Clarified is that we hold to the premise of isolation (spiritual) because we fear it which is senseless. It is a subtle coercion.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 8 hours
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28350585 - 06/07/23 08:21 AM (7 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28351767 - 06/08/23 08:12 AM (7 months, 17 days ago)

Seems good. The substance of unity, therefore of reality, is joy or appreciation. This is consistent as ananda, bliss. It cannot be both real and not be shared.

Perhaps ego is anything that doesn't see appreciation. This in reality could not be.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28357937 - 06/13/23 05:04 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Reading this again was harsh, but lifted the burden in trying to accept. It didn't even take away the forms of the idols but puts them in light.


Quote:

Seek Not Outside Yourself


1. Seek not outside yourself. ²For it will fail, and you will weep each time an idol falls. ³Heaven cannot be found where it is not, and there can be no peace excepting there. ⁴Each idol that you worship when God calls will never answer in His place. ⁵There is no other answer you can substitute, and find the happiness His answer brings. ⁶Seek not outside yourself. ⁷For all your pain comes simply from a futile search for what you want, insisting where it must be found. ⁸What if it is not there? ⁹Do you prefer that you be right or happy? ¹⁰Be you glad that you are told where happiness abides, and seek no longer elsewhere. ¹¹You will fail. ¹²But it is given you to know the truth, and not to seek for it outside yourself.

2. No one who comes here but must still have hope, some lingering illusion, or some dream that there is something outside of himself that will bring happiness and peace to him. ²If everything is in him this cannot be so. ³And therefore by his coming, he denies the truth about himself, and seeks for something more than everything, as if a part of it were separated off and found where all the rest of it is not. ⁴This is the purpose he bestows upon the body; that it seek for what he lacks, and give him what would make himself complete. ⁵And thus he wanders aimlessly about, in search of something that he cannot find, believing that he is what he is not.

3. The lingering illusion will impel him to seek out a thousand idols, and to seek beyond them for a thousand more. ²And each will fail him, all excepting one; for he will die, and does not understand the idol that he seeks _is_ but his death. ³Its form appears to be outside himself. ⁴Yet does he seek to kill God’s Son within, and prove that he is victor over him. ⁵This is the purpose every idol has, for this the role that is assigned to it, and this the role that cannot be fulfilled.

4. Whenever you attempt to reach a goal in which the body’s betterment is cast as major beneficiary, you try to bring about your death. ²For you believe that you can suffer lack, and lack _is_ death. ³To sacrifice is to give up, and thus to be without and to have suffered loss. ⁴And by this giving up is life renounced. ⁵Seek not outside yourself. ⁶The search implies you are not whole within and fear to look upon your devastation, but prefer to seek outside yourself for what you are.

5. Idols must fall _because_ they have no life, and what is lifeless is a sign of death. ²You came to die, and what would you expect but to perceive the signs of death you seek? ³No sadness and no suffering proclaim a message other than an idol found that represents a parody of life which, in its lifelessness, is really death, conceived as real and given living form. ⁴Yet each must fail and crumble and decay, because a form of death cannot be life, and what is sacrificed cannot be whole.

6. All idols of this world were made to keep the truth within from being known to you, and to maintain allegiance to the dream that you must find what is outside yourself to be complete and happy. ²It is vain to worship idols in the hope of peace. ³God dwells within, and your completion lies in Him. ⁴No idol takes His place. ⁵Look not to idols. ⁶Do not seek outside yourself.

7. Let us forget the purpose of the world the past has given it. ²For otherwise, the future will be like the past, and but a series of depressing dreams, in which all idols fail you, one by one, and you see death and disappointment everywhere.

8. To change all this, and open up a road of hope and of release in what appeared to be an endless circle of despair, you need but to decide you do not know the purpose of the world. ²You give it goals it does not have, and thus do you decide what it is for. ³You try to see in it a place of idols found outside yourself, with power to make complete what is within by splitting what you are between the two. ⁴You choose your dreams, for they are what you wish, perceived as if it had been given you. ⁵Your idols do what you would have them do, and have the power you ascribe to them. ⁶And you pursue them vainly in the dream, because you want their power as your own.

9. Yet where are dreams but in a mind asleep? ²And can a dream succeed in making real the picture it projects outside itself? ³Save time, my brother; learn what time is for. ⁴And speed the end of idols in a world made sad and sick by seeing idols there. ⁵Your holy mind is altar unto God, and where He is no idols can abide. ⁶The fear of God is but the fear of loss of idols. ⁷It is not the fear of loss of your reality. ⁸But you have made of your reality an idol, which you must protect against the light of truth. ⁹And all the world becomes the means by which this idol can be saved. ¹⁰Salvation thus appears to threaten life and offer death.

10. It is not so. ²Salvation seeks to prove there is no death, and only life exists. ³The sacrifice of death is nothing lost. ⁴An idol cannot take the place of God. ⁵Let Him remind you of His Love for you, and do not seek to drown His Voice in chants of deep despair to idols of yourself. ⁶Seek not outside your Father for your hope. ⁷For hope of happiness is _not_ despair. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/329#1:1-10:7 | T-29.VII.1:1–10:7)




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28358086 - 06/13/23 08:29 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Gotta say, in my interpretation, idols are not items and images etc used for remembrance. These are not the problem.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebubbleguts365
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/24/23
Posts: 65
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28368391 - 06/21/23 08:23 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

tinymadidea said:
After about 35 years of being involved with people and with this course, I can tell you that probably one of the most common mistakes, if not tragic mistakes that occur is when people really take the metaphysics of the Course and use it as a defense and really use it as a way of not dealing with these issues. They use this as a way of really becoming very insensitive to people’s pain and suffering, and yet feeling that somehow they’re being holy and spiritual and very good students of this course. It is really so important that you allow the ego to speak, because it’s already speaking. So making believe it doesn’t speak is not only silly, is very naïve. We would not be here in bodies and thinking we’re bodies if we did not believe what the ego says. So to quickly dismiss it or discount it and say it’s all an illusion really does not help. It’s really denial. And denial is not a spiritual principle.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
“You Have What You Have Taken”




This is a currently a major issue in all discussions surrounding nondual philosophies. The popularity of self-described "uncompromising" nondual teachers mean that someone coming off a psychedelic experience of oceanic boundlessness may start searching youtube and latch on to a nihilistic, solipsistic metaphysics that encourages spiritual bypassing and total distrust of traditional wisdom texts. Without intentional shadow work or purgation of some sort, it's just a subconscious time bomb.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 8 hours
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28369010 - 06/21/23 03:49 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Gotta say, in my interpretation, idols are not items and images etc used for remembrance. These are not the problem.




Not at all I agree, but what would you say they are?  I think anything one desires really.  For most of my life it's been mind altering substances of many sorts, seeking outside myself that which I felt a lack of.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28369099 - 06/21/23 05:13 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Yes, that without which would imply lack it seems. I reread a lot of the thread this morning, came back now and was looking for something about the counterintuitive in being separate minds, but the first few Ps of the OP address it well. The whole post is worth a reread. Just awesome.

"Like to the sun and ocean your Self continues, unmindful that this tiny part regards itself as you."

We consider ourselves this tiny part, and our idols are essentially each other, when regarding the same, and things to play this sad game of limitation.

"Do not accept this little, fenced-off aspect as yourself. The sun and ocean are as nothing beside what you are."
:oldman:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetinymadidea
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/23
Posts: 30
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28372649 - 06/24/23 12:10 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
It still seemed elusive what is the ego. I was thinking what is it, something said or certain behaviors? No, imo, it must be the whole body-mind system




I have pondered this often, and ask myself (as it seems most thoughts are of the ego)  but is EVERY thought of the ego?  Loving thoughts toward others can't be, can they? Unconditional love certainly is not of the ego, so are loving thoughts (our true creations) the only thoughts not of the ego?  It would seem.




There are the two levels to bear in mind. On the one hand, everything that we know and experience is ego. Anything we are conscious of is dualistic and therefore not Oneness and therefore not of God. Basically everything we experience is illusory:

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


That being said, once we find ourselves within the world as a seperated self we can make a choice for something that reflects the Oneness of Christ. The only way we can do that is to undo the ego:
1. Realise we (as a decision making mind and NOT a body) have chosen the ego and accept 100% responsibility for that choice
2. Ask for the part of our minds that remembers God to help us to choose again
3. Be very kind with ourselves for not being able to do this for a lot of the time (This step is very important)

The big mistake is to make a positive choice for love. It's completely understandable and would seem very noble but we can't get there without first seeing that we choose the ego. We MUST go through the darkness of the ego to get to the light. Anything else is false light.

Forrester, the vast majority of thoughts we have reflect the ego: not surprising as this is the ego's world. Watching the ego, without judgement, reflects the thought of love. Loving thoughts come the more time you spend watching the ego with Love next to you. It's basically mindfulness. The Course leads you to an understanding of why to be mindful. I think it saves time because it helps you to avoid lots of ego pitfalls.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetinymadidea
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/23
Posts: 30
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The Little Garden [Re: Forrester]
    #28372662 - 06/24/23 12:16 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

syncro said:
Gotta say, in my interpretation, idols are not items and images etc used for remembrance. These are not the problem.




Not at all I agree, but what would you say they are?  I think anything one desires really.  For most of my life it's been mind altering substances of many sorts, seeking outside myself that which I felt a lack of.




Yes an idol is anything used as a replacement for God. That includes the body, food, air, water, sex, drugs, money, spiritual teachings lol.

We are going to need idols, just like magic, to get by on our spiritual journey. The key is to see how all these things are a substitution for God's Love - a denial of the Everything which we already have.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetinymadidea
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/23
Posts: 30
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The Little Garden [Re: bubbleguts365]
    #28372696 - 06/24/23 12:36 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

bubbleguts365 said:
Quote:

tinymadidea said:
After about 35 years of being involved with people and with this course, I can tell you that probably one of the most common mistakes, if not tragic mistakes that occur is when people really take the metaphysics of the Course and use it as a defense and really use it as a way of not dealing with these issues. They use this as a way of really becoming very insensitive to people’s pain and suffering, and yet feeling that somehow they’re being holy and spiritual and very good students of this course. It is really so important that you allow the ego to speak, because it’s already speaking. So making believe it doesn’t speak is not only silly, is very naïve. We would not be here in bodies and thinking we’re bodies if we did not believe what the ego says. So to quickly dismiss it or discount it and say it’s all an illusion really does not help. It’s really denial. And denial is not a spiritual principle.

Kenneth Wapnick, Ph.D.
“You Have What You Have Taken”




This is a currently a major issue in all discussions surrounding nondual philosophies. The popularity of self-described "uncompromising" nondual teachers mean that someone coming off a psychedelic experience of oceanic boundlessness may start searching youtube and latch on to a nihilistic, solipsistic metaphysics that encourages spiritual bypassing and total distrust of traditional wisdom texts. Without intentional shadow work or purgation of some sort, it's just a subconscious time bomb.




I honestly see so much denial going on in all spiritual discussions I've seen lately. I don't spend too much time on them because it doesn't seem like anyone is really serious about doing "the work". Although as I say this I feel like a hypocrite because I can delude myself very easily!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea] * 1
    #28372715 - 06/24/23 12:51 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

T3.IV.2.1-2
Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego


This is interesting and I think it can be a common difference in use of the term consciousness, around Advaita and such, where consciousness can be equated with pure being, as in this case it is not.

If I recall correctly, Nisargadatta used consciousness to describe more as the dualistic perception, whereas Ramana Maharshi used it as pure being. It looks like Shankara uses consciousness as the self-illuminating absolute.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetinymadidea
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/23
Posts: 30
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28375202 - 06/26/23 12:17 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Hi Sycro,

I think I have heard the word consciousness being used in that way, although if I look up a definition, it definitely implies duality. I like the Course's statement of oneness or absolute truth being represented by the words "God is".

Wp1-169.5.1-4 Oneness is simply the idea God is. And in His being, He encompasses all things. No mind holds anything but Him. We say "God is", and then we cease to speak, for in that knowledge are words meaningless.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: tinymadidea]
    #28375465 - 06/26/23 03:31 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

That says it all. Wonderful quote. "No mind holds anything but Him."

Perception, illusion, ego included then. Boggling.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 23 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: The Little Garden [Re: syncro]
    #28375612 - 06/26/23 05:32 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

In yoga speak then, there is nothing but turiya. Or, there is nothing but being, or, "nothing fails to cover the ground." (that's a Buddhist think)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* miracles OldWoodSpecter 1,775 15 10/13/05 06:06 AM
by TheProphet
* It's A Miracle! DiploidM 1,626 10 11/20/06 06:06 AM
by MAIA
* Any other gardeners out there? daytripper23 873 8 07/09/07 11:48 AM
by daytripper23
* Cricket connectedcosmos 563 14 10/04/23 03:49 PM
by syncro
* The Qualities
( 1 2 3 4 all )
syncro 953 70 12/26/21 08:28 AM
by syncro
* U. G. Krishnamurti
( 1 2 3 4 all )
AnattaAtman 921 60 03/05/22 12:36 AM
by BrendanFlock
* How do I learn more about Native American Church?
( 1 2 3 all )
CaptainTrips420 563 41 01/02/22 11:04 AM
by The Blind Ass
* Humility
( 1 2 all )
syncro 482 22 01/27/22 06:10 AM
by syncro

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
3,779 topic views. 1 members, 6 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.