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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



Registered: 04/01/22
Posts: 12,840
Loc: Hole
Last seen: 17 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: djbabyjesus] 3
#28495757 - 10/07/23 06:45 PM (7 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
djbabyjesus said: I’m gonna ask you again since you avoided the question (another tell tell sign of deception lol)
Have you been posting this information on any other site than the shroomery?
*shines flash light into your eyeholes*
Idk, I thought the cop jokes were kinda clever and humorous…sorry to ‘creep you out’ or what ever lol
I felt it was an appropriate analogy to the situation. Even if you are infact being totally honest, there are people on here that aren’t. It just so happens to be revolving around the very topic you posted about. If it was an honest mistake on your part, then I apologize, it was an honest mistake on my part and you are free to go.
Maybe do another experiment to regain your street cred? I’d support that.
Hey bro this cop talk needs to chill the fuck out. People really don’t take kindly to those types of accusations and insinuations. Wouldn’t be surprised if your account gets put on ice if you don’t watch your language.
-------------------- A Love Letter to New Growers A Guide for New Growers Need Spores? - Sablabs.org Just because your tub contamed, doesn’t mean your attitude has to contam as well.

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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61]
#28496024 - 10/07/23 11:22 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Often, when people get caught, they try to discredit the person asking the questions. Kinda like when you tried to make me out to be a creep for calling you a liar.
Now you use the same tactics to try and discredit me by accusing djbabyjesus of all people of being a cop? That’s rich. I’m literally a guy that picks mushrooms and obviously eats them constantly. You think djbabyjesus is a ‘cop on shrooms’ 😂
Nektar, if someone wanted to find out who all of your social media accounts are, all they would have to do is take a sample of your emotional writing…. Plug that into AI with a special ad on and have it search the internet for matches. So If your worried about people finding out who u are then simply stop posting on the internet on more than one site. Simple as that. The shroomery is the only place I put my words or leave a signature of my writing. There is no cross site tracking for djbabyjesus.
I was just asking if you have been spreading this info on other sites? That’s all. Asking questions and giving you my honest opinion. No anger, just a lot of people calling shenanigans.
Good bye nektar
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Smellyhobbit]
#28496050 - 10/08/23 12:08 AM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hey bro this cop talk needs to chill the fuck out. People really don’t take kindly to those types of accusations and insinuations. Wouldn’t be surprised if your account gets put on ice if you don’t watch your language
For what? Exactly what did I say?
What types of accusations and insinuations are you referring to?
I think it’s fair to question the validity of the cup results and anyone involved. Nectar has connections to the people in the cup. She said it herself.
Then she posts a very suspicious experiment, which was then reposted on Reddit (as I suspected…weird) When I questioned her with a little tongue-in-cheek joke she just started attacking me personally instead of scientifically and logically. She equated my logical arguments with anger in an effort to discredit the validity of my findings. The she accused me of hating women? Wtf? Where does that come from?
Seriously….did she really play the woman card!?
If anyones account should get iced…it’s the ultra manipulative nektar61.
People are calling shenanigans. What should we do? Just ignore the 3% results and the obvious effort to cover up information relating to the subject?
Sorry man. Not gonna do it. Wouldn’t be prudent. Ice me if you want. My first post on this site got +35,000 views and was the top ranked hit on google when searching for mushroom paralysis. I think I can make a cop joke or two.
Whats not ok is accusing other members of being police in an effort to hurt their rep instead of responding to their scientific inquiries. If there was nothing to hide she wouldn’t have gotten so upset.
These aren’t cop tactics, these are ‘um im pretty sure my girlfriend is lying to me and every time I ask her she just attacks me personally and storms out of the room tactics.
Now I’m convinced, Nektar was hiding something and not being 100% honest.
Edited by djbabyjesus (10/08/23 12:35 AM)
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x7x_x7x
x7x, my problem child.




Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3,818
Loc: buenos aires
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: djbabyjesus] 2
#28496201 - 10/08/23 06:41 AM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Hey, I see you're trying to come off as tough, very clever, manipulative, and psychopathic. What I don't see is you actually working or contributing anything productive here or to society. You fit the profile of a resentful failure with nothing better to do (not saying you are). Why don't you find a place with "bad boys" like yourself? You probably wouldn't say any of this to anyone's face. By the way, how many teeth are you missing?
Quote:
djbabyjesus said:
Quote:
”the two people I have talked with at Hyphae Labs are not responding to my emails, and this email that used to be the Psilo Cup email is now bouncing: psilocybincup@hyphaelabs.org
Also, Did you even carefully read the experiment thread linked in the first post? I'm not sure you did, based on some of your replies here.
HOWEVER: I do think my tests, even using self bio-assay instead of a lab, has strongly indicated (if not proven) one important thing: if there is any additional psychedelic substance produced by adding either of these substances to a grow, it's not substantial.
So this experiment went a long way to debunk the many noobs who've asked here, Reddit, and elsewhere something like "I have an idea for an experiment someone should do. Someone should add Melatonin, or Tryptophan to shroom substrate. It might make stronger shrooms”
Nektar, I am curious, you seem intelligent, well educated and experienced growing mushrooms.
Why would you do this particular experiment when there is absolutely no evidence adding tryptophan or melatonin would increase psilocybin potency?
Anyone with access to google could have easily deducted other precursors were more fitting.
When smart people start acting like they had no idea what was going on it looks suspicious.
Reasonable suspicion isn’t enough for probable cause for investigation. However when they start adding up it can trigger those flashing lights.
You’re obviously intelligent, but maybe you just didn’t research this one as much as you should have and totally missed readily available information …ok move along….nothing to see here people….
Wait, did you say you were at one point in contact with the group at the center of an on going investigation concerning results in psilocybin competitions? Hold up, ima need to see some ID.
I gotta ask…
Have you been posting this information on any other site than the shroomery?
*shines flash light in back of vehicle*
-------------------- cultivando en la miseria SuctoSpore® Pictorial Tek
 x7x_x7x@shroomery.org carl_jung_in_lsd@yahoo.com koh samui and oak ridge are my favourite strains
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: x7x_x7x]
#28496562 - 10/08/23 01:44 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hey, I see you're trying to come off as tough, very clever, manipulative, and psychopathic. What I don't see is you actually working or contributing anything productive here or to society. You fit the profile of a resentful failure with nothing better to do (not saying you are). Why don't you find a place with "bad boys" like yourself? You probably wouldn't say any of this to anyone's face. By the way, how many teeth are you missing?
Oooh now your talking tough…. I like it…it’s…cute…
I admire your powers of deduction.
For the record I cured wood lovers paralysis. djbabyjesus literally help the paralyzed walk again and help thousands of people avoid and become educated around the topic. Every you tube video on the topic references my work done here on the shroomery. Before I showed up, WLP was nothing but a myth without any treatment options. Now it’s a whole different ball game. It came from the discoveries in my threads. I post original information never before posted on the shroomery. So yeah I think I have actually added something to the community. Now I find thread with misleading information and start a discussion around the discrepancy. All my real life friends see this as a noble cause and support my actions on here. They agree there is misinformation on the shroomery and it needs to be flushed out.
May I ask…. What have you done that was so helpful to the community? Enlighten me to your ground breaking threads. Please, I await your glory.
How many teeth am I missing? Lol great question!
In total I am missing my entire bottom row and a few other molars from an altercation with the Portland police while being dragged out of a rave party on se 9th and pine. I was 16. I had taken 5-10 hits of very strong 90s LSD and had completely lost my mind.
I knocked the first cop out cold, as he fell to the ground, another cop grabbed me from behind/side. I’ve trained in judo since i was 5 and happened to be mid wrestling season and in phenomenal shape. So as u can imagine the second cop was hip tossed right onto his partner. True story, I piled those cops on top of each other. They didn’t see it coming and weren’t ready for that lol.
Then all of the sudden there were hands all over me. I was slammed against the brick wall while the cops and security worked to zip tie my hands and feet.
Then they picked me up by the zip ties, and face planted me right into the side walk. I lost two on the top and one in the bottom that night. I wasn’t ready for that 😂 🤕
A few years later in 2004, I ended up losing my mind at another rave party, getting thrown out….long story short, I was teleporting and when the cops caught up with me, I was trying ti teleport away but they had me in the ground and one of them hit me with a knee to the side of my face and broke almost my entire bottom left side out. I had to most removed because they had been broken so badly.
Yes, I am missing many teeth, but I still got my money makers sucker!!!! 😂
And yeah you’re right, djbabyjesus is a psycho for sure. I agree, you’re dealing with a different kind of animal you’re not used to.
Portland has become a lawless paradise for people like me. Come on down brother. I speak like this on the daily, unless you are a cop with back up ready, my words stay the same.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,867
Loc: Canada
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: djbabyjesus] 9
#28497364 - 10/09/23 08:13 AM (7 months, 5 days ago) |
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Let’s all tone down the accusations and flaming please. This thread is actually interesting.
OP I like where you are trying to go here, good science should be repeatable and tested thoroughly. If you would like my two cents on the matter the first piece is that bio assay is very imprecise. The way I would skirt that issue for this test would be to find a clone or isolate that is very weak. Something almost bunk. Then see if the additives can increase the potency. This might be easier to measure than starting with already average or strong fruit.
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,844
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 10 days, 8 hours
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Pastywhyte]
#28497428 - 10/09/23 09:38 AM (7 months, 5 days ago) |
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What if was to soak the coco coir in a ayahuasca brew then use that coir to cake mycelium? Would that have something happening there?
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#28498359 - 10/09/23 11:54 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Let’s all tone down the accusations and flaming please.
That guy is peeing all over threads by several people with actual research being done. And apparently telling Bod and Alan Rockefeller they don't know what they're talking about. I don't have to tell you that those two guys know more than most people about mushrooms.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: This thread is actually interesting.
I was partially inspired by your (I'm paraphrasing from memory) "little kids mixing mud pies and grass clippings with the garden hose is not science."
So I actually did this with a clone and used a control group (of same clone).
Many people on this site claim to do experiments, but that is really the entry level for it being science.
What I determined from my bio assay is that adding either of these things does not markedly improve the drug content. It might improve it slightly (or even decrease it slightly), but since it's already so doable to grow strong shrooms without it, I think it's not worth doing for growers with either of these two substances.
The experiment, however, is worth replicating by others, and needs to be replicable to be science. But I'm starting a new job with more hours and don't really have time to keep it going with it, or even to be tripping for some time.
I'm busy too finishing up a stronger x7x, should be ready soon. on F7 now.
In my document I invite others to repeat my tests, and I hope people do. But the bare minimum would be "use a clone and use a control group (of same clone) without the additives", grown at same place, same time, in same way.
If someone with access to a lab does it, also chem assay your melatonin and tryptophan before you start the experiment.
Some cheap bulk Melatonin can have actual serotonin in it, as byproduct of sloppy synthesis. Could change your results, or could actually be dangerous.
Kat
"26 percent of the (Melatonin) supplements contained serotonin, a hormone that can have harmful effects even at relatively low levels." https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/melatonin-what-you-need-to-know
Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 12:09 AM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 2
#28499184 - 10/10/23 06:01 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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There's plenty of l-tryptophan already present in cereal grains. Raw wheat berries contain roughly 450mg of l-tryptophan/100g of wheat, for example.
The biogenesis of neurotransmitters and hormones such as serotonin or melatonin begins with l-tryptophan, along with the prized 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
On the otherhand, de novo biosynthesis from d-erythrose-4-phosphate and phosphoenol pyruvate requires 13 steps and 12 enzymes, with some unknown percentage of intact l-tryptophan potentially taken from the environment, but I'm not certain how much of the alkoloid content is produced de novo versus recruitment from the substrate, perhaps none, that is to say, other than the necessary amino acids.
I believe the chemistry is far too complicated to assume one generic precursor like l-tryptophan, added to what is essentially a swimming pool of already available l-tryptophan, would correlate directly to the production of more 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
To be certain, this would require some serious equipment and training to ascertain. With the abundance of l-tryptophan already present in cereal grains, I have serious doubts regarding supplentation, much like bringing sand to a very sandy beach.
I'm not certain but my gut tells me that melatonin is not along the correct pathway to result in 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong....

But I don't appear to be.
This seems like the most reasonable position, in my humble opinion.
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28499340 - 10/10/23 08:00 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: There's plenty of l-tryptophan already present in cereal grains. Raw wheat berries contain roughly 450mg of l-tryptophan/100g of wheat, for example.
The biogenesis of neurotransmitters and hormones such as serotonin or melatonin begins with l-tryptophan, along with the prized 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
On the otherhand, de novo biosynthesis from d-erythrose-4-phosphate and phosphoenol pyruvate requires 13 steps and 12 enzymes, with some unknown percentage of intact l-tryptophan potentially taken from the environment, but I'm not certain how much of the alkoloid content is produced de novo versus recruitment from the substrate, perhaps none, that is to say, other than the necessary amino acids.
I believe the chemistry is far too complicated to assume one generic precursor like l-tryptophan, added to what is essentially a swimming pool of already available l-tryptophan, would correlate directly to the production of more 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
To be certain, this would require some serious equipment and training to ascertain. With the abundance of l-tryptophan already present in cereal grains, I have serious doubts regarding supplentation, much like bringing sand to a very sandy beach.
I'm not certain but my gut tells me that melatonin is not along the correct pathway to result in 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong....

But I don't appear to be.
This seems like the most reasonable position, in my humble opinion.
Good info. Thank you.
But did you read my short write up? I'm not trying to say "this should work", and I'm of the position from this experiment that neither of these two supplements raise potency. I've explained this at 3 times in my responses on this thread. It's very clearly stated in my link.
That troll who got banned screaming at everyone was here screaming at me that this would never work, before he even read my report saying it didn't work.
Someone should try Indole. Though Indole is used as starting material in at least one simple DMT total synthesis, so pouring it on mushrooms might the less wise thing to do with it.
I wasn't trying to prove they would, I was trying to debunk common "hey wouldn't it be great to try...." things that have been posted here and elsewhere for decades, usually by noobs who haven't grown a good shroom yet.
My thesis was that it wouldn't work, but I was open to stating results if it did work. As for why I didn't lab test, that's explained elsewhere in this thread.
I debunked it, but invite people to replicate (with clone and control) to try it, and to try other supplements.
As I said in my report, Shulgin thought something might work as easily as just adding to the substrate:
Shulgin said of Psilocbe mushrooms in Tihkal "Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists.You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature."
Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 11:38 PM)
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 1
#28499344 - 10/10/23 08:02 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
WhoManBeing said: What if was to soak the coco coir in a ayahuasca brew then use that coir to cake mycelium? Would that have something happening there?
You're probably the 30th person I've seen suggest similar. (Most probably quoting someone who's quoting someone who's quoting what Shulgin is quoted as saying in the post above).
It's a waste of drugs and money. (Not for Shulgin, he was an excellent industrial chemist who could make anything in full synthesis for cheap. But even he only mentions it in theory, there's no evidence he ever tried it.)
I think that most people commenting here on this thread have not even read my short report. I mention this in the report linked in the top post of this page:
"People sometimes suggest using DMT, which is stupid. An ounce of DMT costs about 3000 dollars, and if you've got it, you've already got drugs. Why make it into similar drugs?"
"(...what you'd want to use is) something that costs about 5 dollars an ounce."
(which is another reason I picked the two substances I picked)
Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 08:12 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 4
#28499369 - 10/10/23 08:20 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Yeah, I have doubts that dmt just converts to psilocin when introduced to the sub. I have no idea why he'd think such a thing, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a a famous drug chemist, or any kind of chemist, and I doubt he was much of a mycologist.
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28499376 - 10/10/23 08:25 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Yeah, I have doubts that dmt just converts to psilocin when introduced to the sub. I have no idea why he'd think such a thing, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a a famous drug chemist, or any kind of chemist, and I doubt he was much of a mycologist.
Yes.
I think he might have tried it if shrooms were as easy to grow back then as they are now.
But the fact that he thinks there is something that would do it means someone might want to try different things. Shrooms are so cheap to grow it would cost very little to try a number of things. Though there's also the possibility it might form something toxic, like large quantities of serotonin, or worse, which is why I started with tiny amounts.
I'd postulate that one wouldn't need a lab to start. Just use clones, and control, and have several experienced trippers willing to bio assay at the drop of a hat.
If you find the magic substance (OTC, not regulated, cheap as aspirin), that makes shrooms 2 or 3 times as strong, a real game changer, it will be obvious. Then replicate, then pay a lab to analyze it and the control, then publish results here.
If it's less than 2x or 3x, just grow a different variety.
To make it very clear: I was NOT trying to find this to use for my growing. I've grown more shrooms that I could do in the rest of my life. I'm just sick of newbs saying "Oh, maybe people should try adding ________ to their grows."
It's always newbs who haven't even grown an ounce of kick ass mold-free shrooms. Once you've done that, you kind of forget about things like this.
Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 08:39 PM)
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28499386 - 10/10/23 08:35 PM (7 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Yeah, I have doubts that dmt just converts to psilocin when introduced to the sub. I have no idea why he'd think such a thing, but maybe I'm wrong.
Shulgin doesn't make it clear, but this last part in that section sounds like he or someone he knows has tried it, though he doesn't explain how it was "put into the growing process" or who observed it:
"It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature."
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Icyurmt
Strange


Registered: 04/02/20
Posts: 1,690
Loc: 5a
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 2
#28499416 - 10/10/23 09:11 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said:
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Yeah, I have doubts that dmt just converts to psilocin when introduced to the sub. I have no idea why he'd think such a thing, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a a famous drug chemist, or any kind of chemist, and I doubt he was much of a mycologist.
Yes.
I think he might have tried it if shrooms were as easy to grow back then as they are now.
But the fact that he thinks there is something that would do it means someone might want to try different things.
When Shulgin was alive the psilocybin biosynthesis pathway and specific enzymes involved were still unknown. At that time it was believed that DMT was one of the metabolites/steps involved so it seems he was likely working off of what turned out to be a false assumption. The paper identifying the 4 enzymes and true pathway didn’t come out until 2017. Enzymatic Synthesis of Psilocybin
-------------------- 👁️ 🌊 why you are empty. Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.
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Icyurmt
Strange


Registered: 04/02/20
Posts: 1,690
Loc: 5a
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Icyurmt] 1
#28499450 - 10/10/23 09:56 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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It seems that trying to get the organism to take up either more of or a different compound altogether, could be a problem here even if you used a substrate/precursor that the enzymes would work on.
I’ve been wondering if pickling/soaking them fresh using a doped brine of some sort could have any impact. Or maybe using an extract or a slurry and incubating something in that? Lemon chemist tek?
-------------------- 👁️ 🌊 why you are empty. Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Icyurmt] 1
#28499494 - 10/10/23 11:08 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyurmt said: When Shulgin was alive the psilocybin biosynthesis pathway and specific enzymes involved were still unknown. At that time it was believed that DMT was one of the metabolites/steps involved so it seems he was likely working off of what turned out to be a false assumption. The paper identifying the 4 enzymes and true pathway didn’t come out until 2017. [url=https://onlinelibrary.wileysecond or fourth hand .com/doi/10.1002/anie.201705489]Enzymatic Synthesis of Psilocybin[/url]
OK, excellent addition here.
In that case he may have been uncharacteristically repeating rumors as fact with this:
"It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET)"
PiHKAL and TiHKAL, while providing actual tested non-bullshit synthesis for many substances (unlike some other underground chemistry books out there, and many of the drugs being his own creations), both works do have sections that read less like peer-reviewed journal publishing and more like a reporting / editing / citation mess.
For instance, some of the Shulgin Rating Scale results at the end of a section for each drug don't always make it clear if it's first hand (him or Ann), second hand of someone taking it in front of him in his living room and conveying to him directly (sometimes was), or if he gave someone a take home dose and asked them later, and maybe they gave some to a friend who never met Shulgin, so it's 3rd or 4th hand by that point.
That wouldn't in any way pass muster for a clinical drug trial for a the pharmaceutical company where he used to work.
Maybe the same happened with "It was observed that if you put Z into shrooms you get X-alated Z compound out the other end of the shroom grow equation."
I wish that part had more info. There are people around who knew him and might have discussed this. Hamilton Morris comes to mind.
I don't fault him for this omission, they had a lot to do for 2 people. Just writing and editing those books seems like a monumental task, even on top of the chemistry behind them.
Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 11:21 PM)
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Icyurmt]
#28499510 - 10/10/23 11:43 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyurmt said: It seems that trying to get the organism to take up either more of or a different compound altogether, could be a problem here even if you used a substrate/precursor that the enzymes would work on
I'm trying to think if this works with any non-animal commercial crop.
There's been work in giving plants hormones, but I believe that's more for bigger physical yield than any potency. Grafting powder contains hormones to stimulate growth to make the graft more likely to take.
Fertilizers are common to make plants healthier and yield more plant material, but is there any drug or medical plant or fungus commonly grown, where part of the current process is to "dope" the slurry with something to increase the amount of compound?
Maybe something used with vat-sized penicillin production?
I'm not talking about DNA altering, that's a different animal. I'm just talking about "pouring some shit into the grow medium to get more of the good stuff."
Pot? Most of the work there is old fashioned strengthening by breeding, isn't it?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,843
Loc: Canada
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 3
#28499669 - 10/11/23 06:03 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Psychoactive fungi are organisms which do not require many environmental resources, with the exception of water, to produce fruit and chemistry. The highest concentrations of these compounds are found in species growing in environments nearly void of resources other than decaying wood, grasses, and water.
I am inclined to believe that cereal grains by comparison are quite rich, and provides more than the organism can handle.

I'd be very surprised if it could be proven that supplementation beyond the addition of cereal grains would have any effect whatsoever, unless one could identify a gap in the provision supplied by any particular grain. Grains are rich in fats, proteins, amino acids, l-tryptophan, etc.
I would lean more in the direction of complex symbiosis with other organsms rather than direct feeding via supplementation.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (10/12/23 07:51 AM)
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,299
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 12 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28501001 - 10/11/23 10:47 PM (7 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Psychoactive fungi are microorganisms...
Can you explain what you mean please?
Edited by nektar61 (10/12/23 05:59 AM)
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