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Nillion
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 1
#28599956 - 12/27/23 03:32 PM (1 month, 5 hours ago) |
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Quote:
The subsequent step involves the 4-hydroxylation of tryptamine by a cytochrome P450-like monooxygenase, PsiH.
If the fungal enzymes can incorporate tryptamine and hydroxylate it, that doesn't appear to refute the notion that adding tryptamines can increase alkaloid content. It supports it.
The idea that N methylation of tryptamine makes it inaccessible to the fungal enzymatic pathways seems like a bold and unsubstantiated claim.
If we consider work like In silico characterization of the psilocybin biosynthesis pathway published just last summer we can read the following from the abstract:
Quote:
The final models were then evaluated using molecular docking interactions with their substrates, i.e., psilocybin precursors (l-tryptophan, tryptamine, 4-hydroxytryptamine, and norbaeocystin/baeocystin), all of which generated feasible binding modes for the expected biotransformation. Further plausibility of the psilocybin → aeruginascin, 4-hydroxytryptamine → norpsilocin, and tryptamine → N,N-dimethyltryptamine conversions, all mediated by the generated model for PsiM, suggests valid routes of formation for these key secondary metabolites.
Even the computer models based on the elucidated pathways indicate that biotransformation and incorporation of tryptamines like DMT into fungal alkaloid content is plausible. This only further serves to validate Gartz's experiments showing substantial alkaloid increases obtained through the use of precursor molecules being added to a substrate.
The current science of today doesn't refute the idea of using tryptamine precursors to enhance potency, rather it supports it thoroughly.
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Nillion
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61]
#28608047 - 01/03/24 06:56 AM (24 days, 14 hours ago) |
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https://zero.sci-hub.se/4564/f22bf28cb120dd03e779048dde7f5973/gartz1989.pdf https://www.fungifun.org/docs/mushrooms/Psilocybe/BIOTRANSFORMATION%20OF%20TRYPTAMINE%20IN%20FRUITING%20MYCELIA%20OF%20PSILOCYBE%20%20CUBENSIS.pdf
One of these links should work.
The idea that DMT cannot be transformed to psilocin is contraindicated by all available scientific evidence and anecdotes from people who have added certain root bark to PF cakes and fruited them and then compared the activity and dose of said fungi to controls lacking the bark.
The idea that it is a waste, because these fungi do not need DMT in their media to make active alkaloids is accurate. It is not needed and it quite wasteful. Rather than taking culture and adding potential precursors to get stronger fungi it is far more pragmatic and accessible to just grow fungal cultures lines or species that are known to be stronger than average. Nats, Pans or things like Tidal Wave can be plenty strong.
Still, I've been amused by the claims that the method doesn't work coming from those who have not tried it. At least one person has gone around badmouthing Gartz and claiming that he faked his studies. I don't believe this whatsoever.
Consider the material in this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1476927123000452
So far all the science I am aware of indicates Gartz is legit AF. To say nothing of the anecdotes that support him as well.
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Nillion
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61]
#28608050 - 01/03/24 06:59 AM (24 days, 14 hours ago) |
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I should add, I am not aware of any reason Melatonin would be incorporated into the enzyme pathway or act as a substrate for the enzymes involved.
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Nillion
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61]
#28608088 - 01/03/24 07:30 AM (24 days, 14 hours ago) |
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I found a shroomery page about this: https://www.shroomery.org/9040/Tryptamine-Cubensis
It has this claim:
Quote:
No one has been able to replicate these results even though thousands of people have tried.
I consider that either a lie or a misconception.
I recall Alan banning someone from the FB group for reporting that they tried a MHRB variant of the method and that it worked. There have been at least some people who have experimented with this and who have had results confirming what Gartz did, who have been silenced and had their comments deleted because they shared experiences that didn't fit the preferred narrative.
As for the claim that thousands have tried to replicate Gartz's radiolabeled tryptamine experiment, I've yet to read a single study that attempted to replicate it, let alone a study that tried to do this and which found that the radiolabeled tryptamine remained in the media. Given the scientific data, including the new information about enzyme pathways, as well as Gartz's data and anecdotes of people who have had personally convincing results, I would take any claims that this does not work with a grain of salt.
If someone can post a link to one of the many thousands of studies that are out there, evidently, where no radioactive tryptamine was found incorporated into psilocin and it was found to remain in the substrate, then please do. I think it is time that claim had some evidence before people accept that all replication has failed.
I think a personal grudge against Gartz has more to do with the naysaying on this topic than reality, but that is my personal opinion. Given what I've seen happen in the FB group this post could get me banned permanently from the Shroomery.
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