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nektar61
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Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate 5
#28350008 - 06/06/23 07:11 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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I know this is suggested here often for decades, but I actually did it, with clones, and with a control: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28349910
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: sindromededow] 1
#28359111 - 06/14/23 12:10 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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sindromededow said: Friend, I have been reading about the topic, but it's not clear to me since English is not my native language, and I am somewhat confused. Have you achieved anything positive by using tryptophan or melatonin in your substrates?
thanks!
I achieved nothing by using tryptophan or melatonin in my substrates. No gain in potency.
I'm inviting other people to repeat the experiment, but if you're looking to grow better shrooms, just learn to clone and clone ones that work well, because melatonin or tryptophan added to substrate didn't do anything noticeable.
To learn to clone, on this post: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=27646632&page=0&vc=1#27646632
read the links marked: --Learn sterile techniques.
--Learn to transfer away from contams (contaminations) on agar.
--Learn to clone.
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Edited by nektar61 (06/15/23 10:00 PM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: argenpills] 1
#28359654 - 06/14/23 02:01 PM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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argenpills said: I will gladly replicate it to see if anything happens "by eye." But the reality is that this experiment from the beginning is destined to have no results, and let me explain why...
It would be good to carry out this experiment involving more people who are interested and knowledgeable or capable of conducting a chromatographic analysis of the control strain that we will be exposing to tryptophan. Initially, it would be good to have a control strain where we only administer one type of grain, perhaps oats... After a few weeks or months, when it bears fruit, we would have to dissect them at a constant temperature that does not exceed 50 degrees and micronize them to make a powder of that control strain. Then we would have to conduct a chromatographic analysis to determine the presence of tryptamines in that strain with that grain. Once we have the report on what that strain can metabolize with that type of grain we provided for nourishment, we will have an average value of what we can obtain with just the grain. Then we would have to repeat the entire procedure, but this time adding tryptophan.
It is a lengthy process that can take months or years. The only way to verify it is with scientific data because you won't notice anything at first glance.
To determine the potency of your psilocybin mushroom bread, you would need to harvest them, dissect them, micronize them, and perform chromatographic analysis in a laboratory or with people who are interested in these topics and dedicated to field research (there should be many qualified individuals).
Obviously.
And I mention this in my report (did you read it?) and mention that I've saved vacuum packed shroom results and chemicals in case anyone with a real lab wants to analyze it. And that I invite others to replicate the experiment.
Only people I know of with a lab that can do real quantitative is Oakland people that do Psilo Cup, last year they told me that this year I could enter, and now they're not returning emails.
There are commercial labs in the US where you can pay to anonymously get something analyzed, but it's illegal in the US for a lab to tell someone how much of a substance is in a sample (would be too helpful to "druggies"), they can only tell you what substances are in your sample.
If there was a commercial lab in the US that did quantitative anon results and didn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd have done it.
As much as my experiment was lacking, I've never seen anyone here do a "try this to see if that" even as controlled as I did. That's part of why I did it. Alan does real science. He and others are even finding and ID new active species.
But I haven't seen anyone "try a this vs that" real experiment using a CLONE and a CONTROL group.
People do great work with stabilizing varieties, but not that's not really an experiment, it's not scientific method.
There is a lot on this website where people say they did an "experiment" but don't even come close to the bare minimum I did. I'm not majestic, I'm just pointing out no one really does an actual experiment here.
It's usually "I grew some multispore shrooms and added oxygen from a welding tank, and they're bigger than the last batch I grew without oxygen", so EXPERIMENT SUCCESSFUL. Mission Accomplished! SCIENCE, BITCHES!
If I'm wrong and someone here has done this, please post the link, I'd love to see some, and I can't read this whole website every day.
Welcome.
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Edited by nektar61 (06/15/23 03:44 AM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: argenpills] 1
#28361334 - 06/15/23 06:27 PM (7 months, 9 days ago) |
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argenpills said: Many of these experiments are conducted at "Oakland Hyphae" where they perform chromatographic exams on all participating strains. We should get in touch with those people to conduct tests like the ones mentioned above.
You're posting things and asking questions here. I'm replying in detail, but I think you're not reading my replies, or not reading them very carefully.
That is weird, because it looks like you made an account on Shroomery just to comment on this thread (did you see it on Reddit?). You made your account yesterday, and have only posted on this thread. I don't mind if you did come here just for this, not at all, but if you're going to ask me questions and I answer in detail, please read my replies to your questions carefully before asking more questions I've already answered.
For instance, I replied to you in a post above, before you asked about Oakland Hyphae:
"Only people I know of with a lab that can do real quantitative is Oakland people that do Psilo Cup, last year they told me that this year I could enter, and now they're not returning emails."
Maybe you read that but don't know that Oakland Hyphae runs the Psilo cup. Even if you didn't know that, I also wrote above before your follow up:
"There are commercial labs in the US where you can pay to anonymously get something analyzed, but it's illegal in the US for a lab to tell someone how much of a substance is in a sample (would be too helpful to "druggies"), they can only tell you what substances are in your sample."
"If there was a commercial lab in the US that did quantitative anon results and didn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd have done it."
The two people I have talked with at Hyphae Labs are not responding to my emails, and this email that used to be the Psilo Cup email is now bouncing: psilocybincup@hyphaelabs.org
Also, Did you even carefully read the experiment thread linked in the first post? I'm not sure you did, based on some of your replies here.
HOWEVER: I do think my tests, even using self bio-assay instead of a lab, has strongly indicated (if not proven) one important thing: if there is any additional psychedelic substance produced by adding either of these substances to a grow, it's not substantial.
So this experiment went a long way to debunk the many noobs who've asked here, Reddit, and elsewhere something like "I have an idea for an experiment someone should do. Someone should add Melatonin, or Tryptophan to shroom substrate. It might make stronger shrooms."
It does not make shrooms significantly stronger. If it did I would have tripped hard of a gram. I did not trip hard off a gram.
I invite anyone to duplicate this experiment, USING A CLONE ONLY, and having a control group, and doing it more than once as I did, and see if any of them make you trip hard off a gram, or trip much harder off the same amount.
THAT is science. Even without a lab.
I've seen that so many times.
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Edited by nektar61 (06/15/23 07:06 PM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: argenpills] 2
#28362212 - 06/16/23 02:45 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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argenpills said: Predicting what a biological organism will do is very difficult.
Agreed. Which is why I think that the lab standard pre-human trial technique of head-twitch response (HTR) using mice is a horrible indication of if a drug is psychedelic, or of how much, or in what way.
Sasha Shulgin believed this strongly, even though he'd cut his research teeth working for a large pharmaceutical company that did things like that. Sasha and his wife tested new drugs they created on themselves and on willing friends. His published one-short paragraph assessments of x amount of mg of each new substance say more than 20 pages of mouse results could.
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argenpills said: We have to consider the starting point, such as starting with spores and how long ago those spores were taken from the mushrooms. If we start with agar on a plate or in a liquid culture, we have to make sure the mycelium is not "old" (mycelium ages and loses potency)...
My shroom tests were grown the same way I grow all my shrooms, and I grow constantly. I grow much more than I ingest. I've grown so many that I'm tired of eating them. Other than these recent tests, I mostly just grow them.
These shrooms were grown from fresh spores I collected from previous grows, then put on agar, allowed it to sit about six weeks until it pinned on agar. I made a clone from a plin (plate pin, often the first one is a good candidate for a strong robust clone culture), and used T1 from agar of that to grow these shrooms. There was no senescence here.
They were grown on the same shelf next to each other. Kept at 70 degrees F. Given 6500 k light 12 hours a day once pins showed. Misted as needed.
I didn't explain that in my report because I'd been explaining it all in the forums here as I went along. Didn't include it because I wanted my report to be short enough for laymen to actually read it.
There was no difference in growing, except the two with additions of chemicals took a 3 to 5 days longer to pin. I explained that in my report. I'll link this post in my report, since it offers more information.
I didn't weigh yields, which was a mistake, but doesn't invalidate my experiment. I provided photos of each shoebox grow, they were similar. Dried weight would have been within 5 to 10 percent the same, as would be would be with any clone shoebox grow I grow.
I picked the shrooms once they opened, and dried the shrooms in a dehydrator at 180 F for 24 hours. This doesn't diminish the potency at all. I vacuum sealed the shrooms immediately after trying so there would be no degradation of potency until the up to 6 weeks later that I ingested them. Here's a link to more info on my drying and vacuum tek.
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argenpills said: The link I shared with you resolved many of these doubts for me but raised new ones that go beyond my current capacity for study. I don't think any of these guys here will join our conversation and explain to us how we can make our mushrooms better in a cheap way with a simple element...
I think Yahra's comment just above this is accurate; "Mushrooms don't need to be made better. They are perfect as they are."
Not sure I agree with the second part "Plain, pure nature. No need to mess around with it.", but I do in the sense of chemical additions, and my experiment was just to see if the suggestions from many noobs who've never grown a shroom of adding these substances had any merit. I'm convinced these two substances as grow additions have no merit.
We do "mess with it" around here, in the form of coming up with and selecting new varieties of mushrooms, usually cubes (Psilocybe cubensis). If hundreds of people hand't "messed around with it over the past 25 years (Shroomery is one of the longest-running sites on the Internet), there would be only one variety of magic mushroom, it wouldn't be very strong, and you'd have to go out into a cow pasture after a rain and risk getting caught or even shot to pick it.
I did that myself several times, near San Antonio Texasin 1985, didn't get shot, but did get caught and chased once. Other people I know had warning shots from shotguns blasted over their heads once.
Members of the Shroomery community do a lot of work with improving shrooms by selection, and risk prison to do it. Most popular "strains" (actually varieties is more accurate) of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms were selected, named, and disseminated from this site. People here are the forefront of it.
I'm working on selecting for an improved, taller, stronger sub-variety of x7x cubes right now. That's a variety that was created by a member here who is in, interestingly for you, Argentina.
But I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, of citizen scientist / gardeners who are obsessed with this stuff.
I appreciate you replying and explaining your position. I hope you stick around and I will read that link you sent.
Katrina
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Edited by nektar61 (06/16/23 03:02 PM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61]
#28495195 - 10/07/23 07:36 AM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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djbabyjesus said:
Nektar, I am curious, you seem intelligent, well educated and experienced growing mushrooms.
Why would you do this particular experiment when there is absolutely no evidence adding tryptophan or melatonin would increase psilocybin potency?
.....You’re obviously intelligent, but maybe you just didn’t research this one as much as you should have and totally missed readily available information …ok move along….nothing to see here people….
Wait, did you say you were at one point in contact with the group at the center of an on going investigation concerning results in psilocybin competitions? Hold up, ima need to see some ID.
I gotta ask…
Have you been posting this information on any other site than the shroomery?
*shines flash light in back of vehicle*
djbabyjesus: What's this weird cop shit you're saying? I'm guessing a joke but I don't get it.
Pretending to be a cop anywhere, but especially on this forum, is fucking creepy.
The other part you said about me sounds insulting. It comes off as you saying to me "You're smart so why are you being dumb?"
I did this test more than anything to hopefully see if I could prove that it would NOT work because people have said they thought it would work. It's obvious, again, that you did not read my whole post about it. My thesis was that it would not work, though was open to testing, and my thesis was found to be correct.
Why does anyone do any of the dozens of "experiments" people post here each week. Curiosity.
As for your "Wait, did you say you were at one point in contact with the group at the center of an on going investigation concerning results in psilocybin competitions?"
The answer is: I don't even know what you're talking about. I think you're confusing me with someone else.
I haven't heard of an "on going investigation concerning results in psilocybin competitions."
Do you have a link? Or is this more cop jokes from you?
I have emailed the Psilo Cup people a year before that email link bounced, and did email their main address from the website since, and after I wrote here about it bouncing.
But when they started asking me for money in the form of gift cards, I gave up on them. And it was them, not an unrelated scammer pretending to be them, according to someone I trust who knows them.
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Edited by nektar61 (10/07/23 08:25 AM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61]
#28495728 - 10/07/23 06:20 PM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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djbabyjesus said: I’m gonna ask you again since you avoided the question (another tell tell sign of deception lol)
Have you been posting this information on any other site than the shroomery?
*shines flash light into your eyeholes*....Maybe do another experiment to regain your street cred? I’d support that.
The interaction with psilo cup I mentioned, where they asked for money, happened after I posted here that their email was bouncing. I wasn't hiding anything with the first post.
I had a friend post a link on Reddit to my main thread here on Shroomery about the experiment. But I haven't posted that link or a link to this thread anywhere, and I haven't posted about the topic of my experiment anywhere else, ever.
You trying to figure out my other social media accounts by asking where I'm posting makes me think you ARE a cop. You're also asking who I'm emailing. Cops do that.
You're accusing me of deception where there is none. Cops do that, to get suspects emotional, so they'll talk more and say something they wouldn't otherwise.
And you're making tacit threats to me.
Even if you're not a cop, I don't know where this overt cop-like anger and endless obsession at me is coming from. You're accusing me of all sorts of things I didn't do, and demanding I do things because you tell me to, for "street cred", which sounds like cop talk to me.
Cops try to push people to commit crimes. Is that what you're doing?
I have no idea what's wrong with you. If you're not a cop, maybe you hate women?
This is bad touch, officer. I'm putting you on ignore here,
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Edited by nektar61 (10/08/23 12:03 AM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#28498359 - 10/09/23 11:54 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Pastywhyte said: Let’s all tone down the accusations and flaming please.
That guy is peeing all over threads by several people with actual research being done. And apparently telling Bod and Alan Rockefeller they don't know what they're talking about. I don't have to tell you that those two guys know more than most people about mushrooms.
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Pastywhyte said: This thread is actually interesting.
I was partially inspired by your (I'm paraphrasing from memory) "little kids mixing mud pies and grass clippings with the garden hose is not science."
So I actually did this with a clone and used a control group (of same clone).
Many people on this site claim to do experiments, but that is really the entry level for it being science.
What I determined from my bio assay is that adding either of these things does not markedly improve the drug content. It might improve it slightly (or even decrease it slightly), but since it's already so doable to grow strong shrooms without it, I think it's not worth doing for growers with either of these two substances.
The experiment, however, is worth replicating by others, and needs to be replicable to be science. But I'm starting a new job with more hours and don't really have time to keep it going with it, or even to be tripping for some time.
I'm busy too finishing up a stronger x7x, should be ready soon. on F7 now.
In my document I invite others to repeat my tests, and I hope people do. But the bare minimum would be "use a clone and use a control group (of same clone) without the additives", grown at same place, same time, in same way.
If someone with access to a lab does it, also chem assay your melatonin and tryptophan before you start the experiment.
Some cheap bulk Melatonin can have actual serotonin in it, as byproduct of sloppy synthesis. Could change your results, or could actually be dangerous.
Kat
"26 percent of the (Melatonin) supplements contained serotonin, a hormone that can have harmful effects even at relatively low levels." https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/melatonin-what-you-need-to-know
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Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 12:09 AM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28499340 - 10/10/23 08:00 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Stipe-n Cap said: There's plenty of l-tryptophan already present in cereal grains. Raw wheat berries contain roughly 450mg of l-tryptophan/100g of wheat, for example.
The biogenesis of neurotransmitters and hormones such as serotonin or melatonin begins with l-tryptophan, along with the prized 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
On the otherhand, de novo biosynthesis from d-erythrose-4-phosphate and phosphoenol pyruvate requires 13 steps and 12 enzymes, with some unknown percentage of intact l-tryptophan potentially taken from the environment, but I'm not certain how much of the alkoloid content is produced de novo versus recruitment from the substrate, perhaps none, that is to say, other than the necessary amino acids.
I believe the chemistry is far too complicated to assume one generic precursor like l-tryptophan, added to what is essentially a swimming pool of already available l-tryptophan, would correlate directly to the production of more 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine.
To be certain, this would require some serious equipment and training to ascertain. With the abundance of l-tryptophan already present in cereal grains, I have serious doubts regarding supplentation, much like bringing sand to a very sandy beach.
I'm not certain but my gut tells me that melatonin is not along the correct pathway to result in 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong....

But I don't appear to be.
This seems like the most reasonable position, in my humble opinion.
Good info. Thank you.
But did you read my short write up? I'm not trying to say "this should work", and I'm of the position from this experiment that neither of these two supplements raise potency. I've explained this at 3 times in my responses on this thread. It's very clearly stated in my link.
That troll who got banned screaming at everyone was here screaming at me that this would never work, before he even read my report saying it didn't work.
Someone should try Indole. Though Indole is used as starting material in at least one simple DMT total synthesis, so pouring it on mushrooms might the less wise thing to do with it.
I wasn't trying to prove they would, I was trying to debunk common "hey wouldn't it be great to try...." things that have been posted here and elsewhere for decades, usually by noobs who haven't grown a good shroom yet.
My thesis was that it wouldn't work, but I was open to stating results if it did work. As for why I didn't lab test, that's explained elsewhere in this thread.
I debunked it, but invite people to replicate (with clone and control) to try it, and to try other supplements.
As I said in my report, Shulgin thought something might work as easily as just adding to the substrate:
Shulgin said of Psilocbe mushrooms in Tihkal "Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists.You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature."
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Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 11:38 PM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: nektar61] 1
#28499344 - 10/10/23 08:02 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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WhoManBeing said: What if was to soak the coco coir in a ayahuasca brew then use that coir to cake mycelium? Would that have something happening there?
You're probably the 30th person I've seen suggest similar. (Most probably quoting someone who's quoting someone who's quoting what Shulgin is quoted as saying in the post above).
It's a waste of drugs and money. (Not for Shulgin, he was an excellent industrial chemist who could make anything in full synthesis for cheap. But even he only mentions it in theory, there's no evidence he ever tried it.)
I think that most people commenting here on this thread have not even read my short report. I mention this in the report linked in the top post of this page:
"People sometimes suggest using DMT, which is stupid. An ounce of DMT costs about 3000 dollars, and if you've got it, you've already got drugs. Why make it into similar drugs?"
"(...what you'd want to use is) something that costs about 5 dollars an ounce."
(which is another reason I picked the two substances I picked)
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Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 08:12 PM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28499376 - 10/10/23 08:25 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Stipe-n Cap said: Yeah, I have doubts that dmt just converts to psilocin when introduced to the sub. I have no idea why he'd think such a thing, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a a famous drug chemist, or any kind of chemist, and I doubt he was much of a mycologist.
Yes.
I think he might have tried it if shrooms were as easy to grow back then as they are now.
But the fact that he thinks there is something that would do it means someone might want to try different things. Shrooms are so cheap to grow it would cost very little to try a number of things. Though there's also the possibility it might form something toxic, like large quantities of serotonin, or worse, which is why I started with tiny amounts.
I'd postulate that one wouldn't need a lab to start. Just use clones, and control, and have several experienced trippers willing to bio assay at the drop of a hat.
If you find the magic substance (OTC, not regulated, cheap as aspirin), that makes shrooms 2 or 3 times as strong, a real game changer, it will be obvious. Then replicate, then pay a lab to analyze it and the control, then publish results here.
If it's less than 2x or 3x, just grow a different variety.
To make it very clear: I was NOT trying to find this to use for my growing. I've grown more shrooms that I could do in the rest of my life. I'm just sick of newbs saying "Oh, maybe people should try adding ________ to their grows."
It's always newbs who haven't even grown an ounce of kick ass mold-free shrooms. Once you've done that, you kind of forget about things like this.
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Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 08:39 PM)
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28499386 - 10/10/23 08:35 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Stipe-n Cap said: Yeah, I have doubts that dmt just converts to psilocin when introduced to the sub. I have no idea why he'd think such a thing, but maybe I'm wrong.
Shulgin doesn't make it clear, but this last part in that section sounds like he or someone he knows has tried it, though he doesn't explain how it was "put into the growing process" or who observed it:
"It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature."
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Icyurmt] 1
#28499494 - 10/10/23 11:08 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Icyurmt said: When Shulgin was alive the psilocybin biosynthesis pathway and specific enzymes involved were still unknown. At that time it was believed that DMT was one of the metabolites/steps involved so it seems he was likely working off of what turned out to be a false assumption. The paper identifying the 4 enzymes and true pathway didn’t come out until 2017. [url=https://onlinelibrary.wileysecond or fourth hand .com/doi/10.1002/anie.201705489]Enzymatic Synthesis of Psilocybin[/url]
OK, excellent addition here.
In that case he may have been uncharacteristically repeating rumors as fact with this:
"It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET)"
PiHKAL and TiHKAL, while providing actual tested non-bullshit synthesis for many substances (unlike some other underground chemistry books out there, and many of the drugs being his own creations), both works do have sections that read less like peer-reviewed journal publishing and more like a reporting / editing / citation mess.
For instance, some of the Shulgin Rating Scale results at the end of a section for each drug don't always make it clear if it's first hand (him or Ann), second hand of someone taking it in front of him in his living room and conveying to him directly (sometimes was), or if he gave someone a take home dose and asked them later, and maybe they gave some to a friend who never met Shulgin, so it's 3rd or 4th hand by that point.
That wouldn't in any way pass muster for a clinical drug trial for a the pharmaceutical company where he used to work.
Maybe the same happened with "It was observed that if you put Z into shrooms you get X-alated Z compound out the other end of the shroom grow equation."
I wish that part had more info. There are people around who knew him and might have discussed this. Hamilton Morris comes to mind.
I don't fault him for this omission, they had a lot to do for 2 people. Just writing and editing those books seems like a monumental task, even on top of the chemistry behind them.
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Edited by nektar61 (10/10/23 11:21 PM)
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nektar61
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Icyurmt]
#28499510 - 10/10/23 11:43 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Icyurmt said: It seems that trying to get the organism to take up either more of or a different compound altogether, could be a problem here even if you used a substrate/precursor that the enzymes would work on
I'm trying to think if this works with any non-animal commercial crop.
There's been work in giving plants hormones, but I believe that's more for bigger physical yield than any potency. Grafting powder contains hormones to stimulate growth to make the graft more likely to take.
Fertilizers are common to make plants healthier and yield more plant material, but is there any drug or medical plant or fungus commonly grown, where part of the current process is to "dope" the slurry with something to increase the amount of compound?
Maybe something used with vat-sized penicillin production?
I'm not talking about DNA altering, that's a different animal. I'm just talking about "pouring some shit into the grow medium to get more of the good stuff."
Pot? Most of the work there is old fashioned strengthening by breeding, isn't it?
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nektar61
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28501001 - 10/11/23 10:47 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Psychoactive fungi are microorganisms...
Can you explain what you mean please?
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Edited by nektar61 (10/12/23 05:59 AM)
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nektar61
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28502759 - 10/13/23 03:54 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Stipe-n Cap said: Whoopsie doodle, "organisms". I write microorganism with inordinate frequency, my bad. Slip of the ol thumbs 
Edited for clarity.
Thank you. Whole post makes a lot more sense now. haha.
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nektar61
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Land Trout] 2
#28503889 - 10/13/23 11:32 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Land Trout said: Thanks for doing this stuff Nektar. It always baffled me that people could think adding stuff like that would change what the mushroom produces. If organisms worked like that the natural world would be very strange.
You're welcome.
These rumors (that adding something to shroom grow substrate makes more drugs or a different drug) are probably all based on that one short part by Sasha Shulgin quoted above.
It was in a book that was widely read, including by people who might have not understood the chemistry but that part they got.
It looks now looks like that part might have been a rare lapse from the empirical for Shulgin, considering the other info learned since, including the paper linked in Icyurmt's post here; https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28499416#28499416
The newbs who eternally say "But what if you add melatonin (or DMT) to the substrate?" are probably all quoting something on Reddit that's quoting someone's older stoner brother who's quoting his non-chemist friend who read Sasha's books and only understood that one part.
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Edited by nektar61 (10/13/23 11:43 PM)
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nektar61
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: Nillion]
#28607936 - 01/03/24 02:40 AM (24 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Nillion said: ...Gartz's experiments showing substantial alkaloid increases obtained through the use of precursor molecules being added to a substrate.
Interesting.
Do you have a link to Gartz's experiments? I'm not finding it.
Thank you.
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Re: Melatonin added to substrate, and also Tryptophan added to substrate [Re: HelloImBob]
#28628089 - 01/20/24 04:16 AM (7 days, 17 hours ago) |
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HelloImBob said: He was only trying to qualify wether or not it was worth his time.
If on_a_dventure had the tiny bit of patience to spend five minutes reading my results, linked in the very first post of this thread, he'd have his answer.
If it was too complex for him to read, there's his answer.
I can also tell he didn't bother to even skim this thread, because he told me to use Oakland hyphea for analysis.
I already explained in this thread that I'd tried involving them and they showed themselves to be flaky time wasters who say one thing then do another.
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