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Offline336
menehune


Registered: 09/01/22
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336]
    #28380932 - 07/01/23 03:01 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

UPDATED STATS

INDEPENDENTS = 10
DEMOCRATS = 7


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28381135 - 07/01/23 08:21 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Yeah it forces you to build a coalition. [Third party] builds coalition with Democrats in return for single payer healthcare, etc. No more holding the (relatively) progressive voter base hostage with two right wing parties.




Hypothetically, I think that progressive 3rd party would lead to a center right 4th party which could easily be the most popular given American tastes. The least progressive Democrats might not really want e.g. single payer and see more common ground with moderate Republicans. If that party didn't win the extreme right would. Also if that 4th party had a chance they would get corporate funding, and money is always a barrier for the left.




The democrats already exist, though. They don’t have the historical bona fides of socialism like Labour does in the UK.

Regardless, you’re right. A viable third party won’t suddenly defuse capital’s stranglehold on electoral politics. It will just make things slightly more democratic.


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Offline336
menehune


Registered: 09/01/22
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336]
    #28381908 - 07/01/23 10:41 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

I don't profess to believe that a 3rd party president will do much; especially at the start. But perhaps it will give Americans hope again that change can happen. Albeit likely too slow for most of us.

At a certain point when you have two abusive parents someone else might need to step in to help calm things down. That's my hope.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336] * 2
    #28381912 - 07/01/23 10:44 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

There won't be one


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Offline336
menehune


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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Enlil]
    #28381949 - 07/02/23 12:01 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

no disrespect, but how old are you Sir?


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336]
    #28382008 - 07/02/23 02:57 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Old enough to know what he's talking about.


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Offline336
menehune


Registered: 09/01/22
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336]
    #28382064 - 07/02/23 05:01 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Not to disrespect history and wisdom, they are more favorite subjects, and I'm probably gonna get a degree in anthropology (here beofre teh anthropology degree is trash jokes); however, many old man have failed to see the way of the future.

It's only natural as they have been so conditioned to the past.

Similar to a prisoner who has been institutionalized.

Or someone experiencing Stockholm syndrome.

And I mean no disrespect, for I surely had been fooled by Alex Jones for quite some time.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #28382079 - 07/02/23 05:46 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Old enough to know what he's talking about.




most of the time he just googles definitions in an attempt to derail otherwise good discussions dont make it more than it is...


in this one case enlil, isnt wrong, its unlikely that we will have a 3rd party president. it would take someone with alot of charm...more than trump.

i doubt obama could have pulled it off. the money in politics keeps the 3rd rail off the tracks for fear they could no longer control the masses if the masses controlled them.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (07/02/23 05:49 AM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: rxb]
    #28382287 - 07/02/23 09:02 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

A prisoner who has been institutionalized is a good metaphor. But when it comes to actual voting numbers we're all locked in.

You're right about the money. It only makes sense for big donors to fund the two parties that have the power to make policy. Money and power are always related, sometimes more directly and other times less like having all the judges. How many judges have the Green Party appointed or gotten elected?

The one thing the two parties agree the most on is that there shouldn't be more than two parties.

The 3rd party idea gets danced around every 4 years and gets no results (only exception being George Wallace winning 43 electoral votes for unapologetic racism). The concept seems to be new ideas, except they aren't new. Just the same old "new" ideas that didn't win elections before.

A lot of charm helps, but it's not enough to effect much real change. Bernie Sanders wasn't going to win even if he looked and sounded like------insert name of most charming actor or public figure. JFK did edge out Nixon because of charm, but we'll never know if he would have produced real change or was just good at talking about it like Obama.

I'm assuming the discussion about 3rd parties was in reference to the progressive possibilities it might offer. This country resists that period. Major shifts to the right aren't so unlikely. Trump could have a viable 3rd party chance of winning, even though it would just be about him and not another party. It could happen if Biden seems healthy enough until he's not, and it's too late for plan B.

I think historically, 3rd party candidates have done better when they're essentially running for President, without an actual party. Other than John Anderson they made up a party name as a formality but didn't really try to form a party. This leaves the two party system intact. 

-


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28382305 - 07/02/23 09:16 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

To be viable, the 3rd party has to soak up enough voters from one of the majors to kill it off and replace it.  It has happened but it isn't like it happens all the time and that just resets the collusion clock, it doesn't eliminate the duopoly.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336] * 1
    #28382439 - 07/02/23 11:06 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

I'll vote for RFK in the primary just to fuck with Biden's numbers


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28382441 - 07/02/23 11:11 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
To be viable, the 3rd party has to soak up enough voters from one of the majors to kill it off and replace it...



It's arguable that Trump did just that, the republicans have been shifted into the Trump party.


Maybe if both Trump and Biden died right before the election, and a charismatic 3rd party candidate popped up just in time, maybe it could happen.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Lynnch]
    #28382457 - 07/02/23 11:20 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
To be viable, the 3rd party has to soak up enough voters from one of the majors to kill it off and replace it...



It's arguable that Trump did just that, the republicans have been shifted into the Trump party.


Maybe if both Trump and Biden died right before the election, and a charismatic 3rd party candidate popped up just in time, maybe it could happen.



I would agree, Trump divided the republican party and exposed the reality that chuck schumer and mitch mcconnel are equally invested in the status quo


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: 336]
    #28382460 - 07/02/23 11:21 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Not to disrespect history and wisdom, they are more favorite subjects, and I'm probably gonna get a degree in anthropology (here beofre teh anthropology degree is trash jokes); however, many old man have failed to see the way of the future.

It's only natural as they have been so conditioned to the past.

Similar to a prisoner who has been institutionalized.

Or someone experiencing Stockholm syndrome.

And I mean no disrespect, for I surely had been fooled by Alex Jones for quite some time.



Even if everything you say above is correct, that does not amount to a viable argument that I'm incorrect.  A paranoid person can actually have people against him/her.  A schizophrenic can actually hear real voices.  A racist can love a person of another race. 

All you're doing is attempting to cast doubt on my opinion based on an irrelevant personal trait of mine.  That is the very definition of an ad hominem argument.

Do better.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Enlil]
    #28382474 - 07/02/23 11:33 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

The 2 party system doesn't want 3 parties ...fact

They do agree on one other thing atleast which us the military industrial complex... both sides are Gung ho fund new toys at great costs ...

Third party would question some things ... spending ...being at yhe top and waste coming in second ... they can't pass a real audit but mutually corrupt audits go well


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: rxb]
    #28382584 - 07/02/23 12:49 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

The MIC employs a lot of Americans.  Without it, entire towns would fail.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28382609 - 07/02/23 01:01 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Why can't the government fund the manufacture of non-military widgets?

Edit: Personally, I think the government should take some missile money and subsidize private pond improvements that reduce or eliminate the conditions necessary for mosquito reproduction.  It's like, for public health and stuff
:howyoudoing:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28382663 - 07/02/23 01:42 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Are you saying they can't fund the manufacture of non-military widgets?


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28382674 - 07/02/23 01:47 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

My neighbor has one of those damn mosquito ponds! :crankey:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Anyone plan on voting 3rd party? [Re: mycosis]
    #28382759 - 07/02/23 02:48 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Write your congressman and tell em you want him to divert some sweet military money to your neighbor. Everyone wins, nobody dies.


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