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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Video Games as Art * 1
    #27059680 - 11/27/20 06:38 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a video where I talk about the game that appears to come closest to embodying Art.  The reason why this game is Art (or on the verge of Art) is due to the sand-boxyness of the game.  Dark Sun: Shattered Lands was one of the first games to fit the definition of a sandbox game, but what also made it Art was the music, the narratives, characterization, story, plot, setting, visual artwork and the open ended exploration made this product more than just a game and it was a masterful portrait of the human condition. 

Baldur's Gate was not so much a great work of art. Still pretty good, but it didn't fit the criteria for being a sand-box game, and the music didn't "Rock" the way it did in Dark Sun: SL.  Graphics were more polished, but also a bit more bland. 

One day Artists who are looking to push games into Art will look back and see Dark Sun: SL as the Sine qua non of digital-interactive Art. 

Here are my thoughts on games/art:




--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (11/27/20 06:45 AM)


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #27077961 - 12/07/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

continuation of discussion on games as art

be


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (12/07/20 10:34 PM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #27079765 - 12/09/20 12:26 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I've always said video games are art. Professional wrestling is also a performance art. Everything is art when expression and emotion are involved IMHO!


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #27090540 - 12/15/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Further discussion on Dark Sun: SL, Animation, Art, money and waste.



--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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Offlinefinalboss64
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #27149129 - 01/15/21 05:00 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

I always thought video games and their music was art. There were so many in the 90s and 2000s that wouldn't take you seriously if you liked video game music. Nowadays it is nostalgic and remembered for many of those SNES games and Mega Drive games have such epic music and many of which are trying to replicate today with the New Retrowave genre.



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OfflineDr. Delban
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: finalboss64] * 2
    #27149989 - 01/15/21 03:52 PM (3 years, 12 days ago)

Apparently NIN's Quake soundtrack is about to be released on a double vinyl.


--------------------
Experimenting with sobriety


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: finalboss64]
    #27156047 - 01/18/21 06:09 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

The music of video games was always something I paid close attention to and appreciated.

Here is some new music one has written / recorded. The passage from the gospel of Ramakrishna might be helpful for developing the mythological framework for a fresh didactic piece of Art.





--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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OfflineSpaceDrooze
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #27161014 - 01/21/21 09:29 AM (3 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I've always said video games are art. Professional wrestling is also a performance art. Everything is art when expression and emotion are involved IMHO!




Totally agree. Walking can be art if it is done with intention and expression. And painting can be "not art" if it is done without intention and expression.


--------------------
Everything has to be happening for This to be happening


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: SpaceDrooze]
    #27251710 - 03/13/21 06:39 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SpaceDrooze said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I've always said video games are art. Professional wrestling is also a performance art. Everything is art when expression and emotion are involved IMHO!




Totally agree. Walking can be art if it is done with intention and expression. And painting can be "not art" if it is done without intention and expression.




I don't mean to be disagreeable or start anything....  however, my understanding is Art is that which is without intention. This is a really tricky thing to talk about.  If there's an intention or purpose it's not art, it's something else, usually it's exploitation.  Art is that which is beyond purpose or intention. This was Carl Jung, David Bohm and J. Krishnamurti's view of dialogue and art. Art and dialogue liberates the human being from intention and purpose.  Where there's intention or purpose, there is some kind of control or conditioning motive.  Art liberates the human being from conditionality, conditioning, exploitation.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #27254988 - 03/16/21 01:04 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cory Duchesne said:
Quote:

SpaceDrooze said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I've always said video games are art. Professional wrestling is also a performance art. Everything is art when expression and emotion are involved IMHO!




Totally agree. Walking can be art if it is done with intention and expression. And painting can be "not art" if it is done without intention and expression.




I don't mean to be disagreeable or start anything....  however, my understanding is Art is that which is without intention. This is a really tricky thing to talk about.  If there's an intention or purpose it's not art, it's something else, usually it's exploitation.  Art is that which is beyond purpose or intention. This was Carl Jung, David Bohm and J. Krishnamurti's view of dialogue and art. Art and dialogue liberates the human being from intention and purpose.  Where there's intention or purpose, there is some kind of control or conditioning motive.  Art liberates the human being from conditionality, conditioning, exploitation.




Can you share with the class how you're gauging someone's level of intention on a piece of art, and how you factually know this enough to come to the conclusion above, without just creating an extra unnecessary step for reaching the same conclusion that the listener is just arbitrarily deciding what they like to see/hear, etc.?


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Edited by Loaded Shaman (03/16/21 01:19 AM)


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27258221 - 03/17/21 11:25 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Cory Duchesne said:
Quote:

SpaceDrooze said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I've always said video games are art. Professional wrestling is also a performance art. Everything is art when expression and emotion are involved IMHO!




Totally agree. Walking can be art if it is done with intention and expression. And painting can be "not art" if it is done without intention and expression.




I don't mean to be disagreeable or start anything....  however, my understanding is Art is that which is without intention. This is a really tricky thing to talk about.  If there's an intention or purpose it's not art, it's something else, usually it's exploitation.  Art is that which is beyond purpose or intention. This was Carl Jung, David Bohm and J. Krishnamurti's view of dialogue and art. Art and dialogue liberates the human being from intention and purpose.  Where there's intention or purpose, there is some kind of control or conditioning motive.  Art liberates the human being from conditionality, conditioning, exploitation.




Can you share with the class how you're gauging someone's level of intention on a piece of art, and how you factually know this enough to come to the conclusion above, without just creating an extra unnecessary step for reaching the same conclusion that the listener is just arbitrarily deciding what they like to see/hear, etc.?





Sandbox (play) in relation to force and chance. Without understanding of chance, then force and repetition will play a larger role. The more you limit force and repetition, the more infinite. An idol will politic about chance, one idol will say chance is contamination.  Another will say chance must be harmonized with order. The purpose is yet to be seen to maintain possiblity.  Probability, force and repetition might be banal elements. Might = mite = mice.  Rhyming can lead to negative or positive possibilities.  Yin and Yang would have variations on strength and weakness. Art cannot close off possibility, then it stops being Art. Another idol says infinite obscures goodness, an art orients itself to the pole of good. Another idol says, lets go beyond good and evil.  The possiblity has to always stay open.  Then another idol says, "language obsures."  There's alway the negative consuming the good defined and felt. Increase or decrease of whatever good taken as good and the same good taken as evil. 

"... intention is the limitation, yes, the exclusion of life."
(C. G. Jung)


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (03/19/21 01:15 PM)


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #28118313 - 12/31/22 01:23 AM (1 year, 28 days ago)

Guarantees of Non-Repetition (Abhor)



--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #28120476 - 01/01/23 07:40 PM (1 year, 26 days ago)



--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne] * 1
    #28333737 - 05/25/23 07:41 AM (8 months, 4 hours ago)

Completed Metroid Dread, it was difficult, required many youtube tutorials on how to ....  After beating Ravenbeak, I was relieved to finish it. It's not bad, it's not terrible, however, the franchise became dominated by a killer instinct / megaman emphasis. These are not bad games, so it's not a complete waste, but I wonder how much the franchise realizes it needs to move away from the clichés of blowing up planets. Samus should be working to preserve and conserve planets. Not that she was at fault for it blowing up, but these are tiresome end game clichés. Planets rich in chozo lore should be preserved for their biological diversity, not turned to waste while she flies away. Hopefully the franchise doesn't land into another claustrophic button masher, duck and slide horror. Dread is the right word for this cramped hectic style of carnage/design.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Video Games as Art [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #28336659 - 05/27/23 08:39 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

The direction I'd like to see the Metroid Franchise go is toward 2-D minecraft, where the save capsules could be stored like ammo. She could use her cannon to shoot tiles and build walls and forts and then shoot the ground to implement a save capule. Saving the game would have a more strategic and creative role, as a shelter would have to be built in certain rooms to avoid enemies from attack while she sleeps/recharges. Other rooms it would be safe to lay down a save capsule without building a fort. Other than that an increasingly open world to explore on a less one dimensional planet than what we've seen is what is needed. As it stands, Metroid Dread has the depth of a star wars film, hardly any depth at all, and with games like minecraft, it's difficult to admire a game like killer instinct or mega man. I heard Zelda Breath of the Wild moved in the direction of minecraft, but I have yet to play it. Next time I have the time and money I'll give it a go. As it stands, the games that come closest to art, to me, are minecraft, dark sun shattered lands. Metroid Prime 3 was pretty good as you could fly from planet to planet a little be like Phantasy Star 2, which is also points the way. I'm least impressed by games that resemble the arcade style of design where the incentive is to get your quarters. These games are designed to be short in duration, and long in terms of getting as much money from the gamer as possible.  Minecraft was revolutionary as far as videogames are concerned, so was Dark Sun shattered lands, phantasy star 2, fallout 2, a few others. I wish I was smart enough to make the kind of videogame I think would be good, but it would seem I'm not quite there. Did some programming with python, php, html, artwork with adobe illustrator, but I could not pull it all together, not even close. Seem to be getting dumber as I get older, nobody wants or intends to decline in cognitive ability. I felt dumb as I was punished by the difficulty of Metroid Dread, but having beaten the game, I can tell you it's pretty shallow and one dimensional, despite being Metroid, which has been a pretty good franchise.


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/27/23 08:45 AM)


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