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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: Rahz]
#28364499 - 06/18/23 03:34 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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I think it's got a lot to do with community and feeling a part of something. The friends you make along the way etc.
But I have seen studies along the lines of suggesting that religious fundamentalists may have learning difficulties
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: Rahz]
#28364511 - 06/18/23 03:54 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Yes, most often bias is at work.
I do wonder with flat Earthers if there's an intelligence deficit at play.
cultures tend to stifle intelligence. tradition is much easier to manage.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28471774 - 09/16/23 11:36 PM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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So as the story goes, the effort I put in to be productive in my workplace backfired on me and I cornered myself in a department I wasn't aiming for.
I spoke up, I was a voice to let the evidence speak for itself, and it told management we had an issue with productivity, not from the worker I cited, but the supervisor who was supposed to be monitoring them.
They then made a business decision to reduce the damage to producivity he was doing. They told me I was more suited to a certain role, but that to reduce stress they would replace the supervisor and maintain me as the productivity loss of me leaving would be greater than if I stayed and was given autonomy.
I was promoted to the field I've outgrown. It took a few days to refocus my aspirations but I've narrowed down on a field of opportunities I am planning to take a grasp on.
There is a pool of opportunity I'm capable and desiring to explore. I've again learnt to slow down and have grown up a bit from this reality of how a good business decision is made.
I would make the same decision as management if I were in those boots to make it, but knowing that I can see the writing on the wall and am willing to gamble on an opportunity that will present itself more timely.
I'm trying to make my own good business decision. I've had supportive people close to me that help.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly]
#28471882 - 09/17/23 04:56 AM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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use pen and paper if possible
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28472024 - 09/17/23 08:03 AM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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To me this is a concept map I've drafted to model key elements of the decision making process.
 It looks like a neural circuitboard to me.
I guess art is in the eye of the beholder.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (09/17/23 09:26 AM)
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly]
#28472053 - 09/17/23 08:24 AM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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it's not only good to write with pen and paper but to draw with it too just now I am back to would enjoy psychedelics that sensible head space but i am on anti-psychotic meds
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly]
#28472068 - 09/17/23 08:37 AM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: To me this is a concept map I've drafted to model key elements of the decision making process.

I find it interesting and will comment upon it later.

renamed the central activity and rerouted some peripheral activities.
Edited by redgreenvines (09/17/23 09:07 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28472156 - 09/17/23 09:43 AM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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When it looks like a neural circuit board to me..
Quote:
In contemplating the remarkable capabilities of the human mind, it's intriguing to draw parallels between our biological design and the functionality of a computer chip. While not a literal comparison, this metaphor offers a unique perspective on how our brains process information and make decisions. Just as a computer chip processes data through its intricate circuits, our brains consist of interconnected neurons that transmit electrical signals to facilitate cognitive functions.
Consider memory as an example. In both the human brain and a computer chip, information is stored and retrieved. The brain's neural networks function somewhat like data storage units, allowing us to recall past experiences and knowledge. Similarly, computer chips store and retrieve data from memory banks.
Moreover, our ability to learn and adapt reflects a level of programming akin to the algorithms that govern computer operations. We acquire knowledge, develop skills, and refine our decision-making processes over time, adjusting our responses to various stimuli, much like a computer chip executing specific instructions.
It's essential to note that this comparison is metaphorical and doesn't imply that we have literal computer chips in our brains. Instead, it underscores the remarkable computational capabilities of the human brain, which plays a vital role in our personal development and decision-making processes. This perspective encourages us to appreciate the intricacies of our biological design and the complexity of our cognitive functions, all of which contribute to our unique human experience.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly] 1
#28472422 - 09/17/23 11:57 AM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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Psychology neurology and cybernetics have been climbing a faulty common incline since the late 1950's.
I see the existence of fleeting mental contents as a key to both memory and processing.
Unchanging mental contents disappear without being noticeable. Contemporaneous mental contents becomes associative memory 10 times per second and perceptive reflexes emerge concurrently.
All thinking and behavior is perceptive reflexes (each of which launches within 1/10th of a second - which you could say is the speed of thought).
In the meantime recent mental content is easier to reactivate than fully resting memory and by keeping mental contents recycling we use our minds in a prehensile fashion.
We can take a grip of an idea or sensation and ride it through various ramifications of perception. (word labeling and discursive thinking is one way of recycling perception. Language is a prehensile mental activity.)
When there is no grasping (which is also a perceptive response) then each sensation and perception (the mental contents) tends to fade in 3/10ths of a second unless emotional or stoned or in a meditative trance.
Edited by redgreenvines (09/17/23 12:45 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28472998 - 09/17/23 07:47 PM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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I like the big multi-pronged continuous feedback loop idea.
I dont feel any practical benefit to grasping the time intervals of memory or perception. For the empirical learning of underlying mechanisms sure, but for awareness and behavioural adaptation? I don't feel it.
Is there any way you could see a full understanding of timing intervals in memory and perception being practicable?
I find the mapping of concepts can more easily assist in learning how to approach growth and personal development.
In my mind the question is if a concept map is more appropriate for the laymen than the blueprint of how, when and where information travels.
I would think it depends on if your goal is academic progress or personal growth though
I just feel really good about the idea of using and looking into concept maps to convey the steps I think are involved in my personal development. It feels like a good reference point for condensing a variety of concepts into a usable guide.
Even if my model is wrong, can you see any benefit to the idea of a relatable concept map of what key elements are involved in decision making, or associative perception?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (09/17/23 07:53 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly]
#28473150 - 09/17/23 09:51 PM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: ...
Is there any way you could see a full understanding of timing intervals in memory and perception being practicable?
...
I do see it as a huge source of inspiration and understanding, and also very much of value for learning. Specifically because it is about learning, and about access to memory (which is reflexive perceptions).
for more effective learning you need more cues and references to the thing you want to learn. In other words - like green eggs and ham, you should review your lessons on a boat, and with a goat, on a train and in the rain, you should review them early and review them late you can even review them on a date. Review your lessons in story form in many contexts and it will be accessible in many contexts.
Another value of knowing this is that you realize that what you have in memory is not something that can be removed from memory - so that managing traumatic memory is about learning to recover from triggered instances of traumatic memory, and not suppressing it, or using magical thinking.
Finally understanding that the rate of granular memory formation and perception is in the range of 10 times per second, you can use that information to get back in touch with the moment especially when you are lost in thought, or distracted, or freaking out.
That said, I do see value to making charts that you can review to organize and reorganize your understanding of what you think. It takes a huge load off your short term memory, and lets you be more in touch with the moment, by having an additional tool, through which to regain the thread you were thinking.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28473197 - 09/17/23 10:26 PM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Redgreenvines said: That said, I do see value to making charts that you can review to organize and reorganize your understanding of what you think. It takes a huge load off your short term memory, and lets you be more in touch with the moment, by having an additional tool, through which to regain the thread you were thinking.
Having tools to off load or coalesce the accumulation of short term memories is nice, but trying to approach how to organise them is what I'm aiming at.

This flowchart represents a decision making process for setting and achieving goals, with a focus on tailoring the approach to the complexity of the goal. The concept behind the flowchart aims help individuals tailor their decision making process to match the size and complexity of their goals. By highlighting the appropriate decision making program, individuals can be more aware of how their actions align with the requirements of their specific objectives, whether they are as simple as doing 5 pushups or as complex as starting a business.
And because I thought the decision making process concept map, and the flow chart for tailoring goal complexity almost interact like concentric circles.

Not as something that will convey the strongest message, but as a starting point or reference for future designs.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (09/17/23 10:56 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly]
#28473246 - 09/18/23 12:21 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Communication is hard! Sometimes my desire to communicate can be quite strong - however, oftentimes even when there are topics or things of which I may be aware of ,and, see a place with my name on it for a post, yet, often I don't.
Again, communication is hard! If that's so, then 'good-communication' is likely even more so.
I'm unable to adequately depict some choice observations that pertain to another's rhetoric - notably - in terms of lacking a sufficient enough level of linguistic proficiency needed to convey a well worded message clear & true to whomever, however, and whenever (if relevant, ha) - as sparked by the originally envisioned material now having been written out to cohere with the flow of good-sense while participating with others in an ongoing dialogue.
Sometimes the hurdles faced while attempting to transcribe an observation, vision, and even question or comment into standard written english for communicative purposes (depending on interest - plus, how elaborate & nuanced those 4 said things are potentially) and- simply not worth it, too much, & too time consuming.
In which case - instead of relying on writing as the sole means to getting what's on the mind out & about until (hopefully) getting the gist of it across to another, I'll sometimes also attempt to draw it out, too. I'd opt for the vulcan mind meld over both if I could, maybe...
Anyways, although the drawing method (as per the ex below) might come more across like a sketchy inkblot test of sorts, rather than a clear, concise, & coherently written message depicting a relevant observation and or comment for strengthening written/drawn communications, anywho - its late af and I need to sleep! You all make of it what you will. I find it cathartic, plus the added benefit of having a neat little associative map composed of fused memories, concepts, ideas, dreams, trips, etc, etc. 
I'm chalking this post up to an exercise in communication since that generally makes for a good excuse, and, as they say: 'practice makes perfect'. Btw, I don't buy that. It might make you better at the practice being practiced, anywho.
Ahh, right... Communication is hard. 
eg.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#28473457 - 09/18/23 08:40 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Sometimes my desire to communicate can be quite strong . . .
Recently I've noticed I sometimes desire to communicate about a deeply meaningful emotional experience. The more intense my experience, the more I want to talk about it. But the more intense the experience, the less I am able to describe it with words. It's a conundrum.
Don't ask me to define "deeply meaningful emotional experience" because I don't know what that is
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#28473510 - 09/18/23 09:25 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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exactly, hence the drawing part. 
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28473648 - 09/18/23 11:24 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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I think deeply meaningful means that it is meaningful in the contexts of the deep dark past, recent past, the present, and possibly the future.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28479053 - 09/22/23 07:16 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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I personally think it's more clear how to plan to implement a goal than it is to make one.
My next move should be to draft a how to design a realistic goal.
I do it regularly for a range of them, and I want to visualise it for myself to harness my own creativity. It floats freely a lot of the time, landing when ever appropriate, It'd be nice to have a handle on it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: sudly] 1
#28479452 - 09/23/23 05:03 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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I think that when we look into ourselves we discover what our goals might already be, and can then proceed to prioritize them, but we do not actually make goals.
Milestones in a schedule however, which seem to be like arbitrary goals, are logical conditions at which several 'critically related' streams come together.
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28481714 - 09/24/23 08:59 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Recently I've noticed I sometimes desire to communicate about a deeply meaningful emotional experience. The more intense my experience, the more I want to talk about it. But the more intense the experience, the less I am able to describe it with words. It's a conundrum.
Don't ask me to define "deeply meaningful emotional experience" because I don't know what that is
Intense indeed. To express any intense experience in ape vocalizations is impressive enough.
Sometimes I wonder if I were present 14 billion years ago, to witness the formation of the universe from a vantage outside of space-time... and I were to codify what I saw into the protosemetic heiroglyphs available a few thousand years ago,... I wonder how people would interpret what I had to say.
I still find it amazing that I can understand my wife, whose primary language is not English.
As for goals, I believe sometimes we become conscious of our unconscious goals that were already in place, but that we can also create them on the conscious level. I do, however, agree that the vast majority of our actions are determined subconsciously.
I'm certainly not going to say that I'm a representative sample of any population,... but I often set goals by using various forms of decision-making analyses.
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Communication is one of the hardest things that you can do. [Re: Moses_Davidson]
#28481913 - 09/24/23 10:37 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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I had a prayer answered today, I prayed to the me who is as I am, and he told me to apply when suitable, an awareness that aims to focus on productivity through the lens of the Pareto principle.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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