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OfflineViaggio
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Registered: 07/05/03
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My White Flag
    #2832460 - 06/27/04 05:00 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Spirituality can be such a struggle.  So why bother?  I've surrendered to the fact I have no way of proving to myself that there is some form of divinity beyond me.  But I'm confident "it" exists because I have no proof that it does not.

I've also given up any attempts at comprehension of life and finding "truth."  After all, what does "truth" mean?  I suppose it's in the mind of the beholder (which makes it more like an opinion).  Yes, I see coincidences and what could be interpreted as signs, but what are these interpretations based on?  Hopeful connections?

Sometimes, I wonder if the mind is truly an ally.  It is so powerless to brain chemistry.  The slightest adjustment in our careful cocktails can completely alter the way it processes information.  And I'm relying on this for my spiritual perspective?  Don't get me wrong, I love my mind (it's one of a kind  :smirk:), but the limits it's shackled by really raises an eyebrow concerning it's credibility.

Ugh...I have no way of knowing what is genuinely spiritual because I have no answer key to check my guesses.  My latest assumption?  Life is not a test or a puzzle, or with meaning...it just is.  I mean...who am I to claim that life has to have meaning?  Perhaps it does not follow the same guidelines as me.

Sigh...I'm just gonna have to sit back, relax, and be.  :popcorn:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlinefelix
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2832479 - 06/27/04 05:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

spirituality shouldn't be a struggle. it should be something you believe in and need no answer for.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: My White Flag [Re: felix]
    #2832482 - 06/27/04 05:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

But how do you justify beliefs to yourself without asking questions?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlinefelix
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2832491 - 06/27/04 05:28 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

it's very puzzling..i suppose you have to have a specific question before you can propose an answer.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: My White Flag [Re: felix]
    #2832503 - 06/27/04 05:40 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but your posts seem contradictive.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2832529 - 06/27/04 06:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Without a practical end in mind spiritualism is useless. You have to know what you want from it first.


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Invisibletak
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2832888 - 06/27/04 11:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Spirituality is the evergoing process of creativity and dreaming. If its a struggle, you are trying to hard. Asking questions is better than finding answers.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2833007 - 06/27/04 12:15 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hue: I'm not sure I understand your post. What would you consider a practical end? And does anyone "know" what they want from spirituality? Would it be the "truth?" Or just a sense of security?

root-ninja-tak: Creativity and dreaming? I think I understand what you mean...it's in the mind of the beholder? Does that also mean it's just an evergoing process of developing a sense of security?

Finally, root, how is asking questions "better" than finding answers? That also seems contradictive.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineGrav
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2833611 - 06/27/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Your next level lies through hopelessness or surrender as you put it.
It's a way of cleansing yourself of childish ideals and shortening the distance between you and reality.
Lower your head and run with it, see where you come out. :smile:


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Grav]
    #2833670 - 06/27/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It's a way of cleansing yourself of childish ideals and shortening the distance between you and reality.

Interesting point, Grav. Your reply seems to make the most sense (to me).


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Edited by viaggio (06/27/04 11:27 PM)


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InvisibleMellowMood
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Registered: 04/24/04
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2833873 - 06/27/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I too can relate strongly to that right now. As I grow to see reality...it seems to bring both spectrums of emotions sometimes im full of hope and sometimes i see the hopelessness sometimes. I feel i must surrender my sheltered reality in order to find my own reality. But as you put it the best mentality seems to be "sit back, relax, and be.". If your path is rightous with your beliefs youll find what "is" for you.

"who am I to claim that life has to have meaning?"

In my opinion you show much doubt. Life (among other things) is a series of realizations...the way i see it if youve made a realization it brings about questions which lead to another realization...So any doubt any questions are just leading up to a realization of sorts. Ive realized that no meaning will exist untill you put forth effort to create meaning.

ramble on


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"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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Offlineergot
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Grav]
    #2834028 - 06/27/04 06:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This entire thread reminds me of Buddhism. I had to say it.

And... Grav's post rocks.

-ergot


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: My White Flag [Re: MellowMood]
    #2848425 - 07/01/04 08:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Create meaning, eh? That seems to be a popular idea (in similar threads). How is it done? Examples (anyone)?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2848459 - 07/01/04 08:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

To me spirituality is just growth towards a higher goal, specifically the goal of passing earth's schoolroom :smile:

Meaning spirituality is associated with healing, living, breathing, learning, teaching, dying, birth, fear, happiness, and millions of others of things.


To me, spirituality on this planet IS a struggle. If it was supposed to be peaceful and sugar coated, our physical lives wouldn't end with a painful, physical death.  Thus, I believe these lives are meant to teach of physical lessons in life, while maintaining our connection to wherever we came from before we were born into this world.


Some of the greatest spiritual teachers in this world went through AMAZING struggles of pain and hardship, like Siddartha Guatama(sp?) and Jesus the Christ. Dont forget Ghandi.

Internal struggle is a major part of spirituality, and facing and digging up rooted negative patterns can be very painful.




So, I associate spirituality with all spectrums of the emotional feeling.


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InvisibleMellowMood
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Registered: 04/24/04
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Re: My White Flag [Re: Viaggio]
    #2848547 - 07/01/04 09:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)


I created meaning in my life by going to one of my favorite spots in nature and watching the sun set. It meant a lot to me because I sat down and appricated its beauty. I see the sun set often. But today I saw it with meaning. Maybe tomorrow Ill have a whole new outlook on future sunsets, maybe the meaning of a sunset has been further set into my head now that ive had this experience. Either way it did mean something to me that I set out to just sit and admire. I dont know if you can understand from how i explained it but theres an example.


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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OfflineViaggio
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Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: My White Flag [Re: MellowMood]
    #2848641 - 07/01/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think I do understand. I find some sort of strange, but fulfilling sensation when I appreciate beauty too. I don't know what this feeling means, but it's definitely positive.

Interesting how some threads easily relate to each other? I promise it was not intentional.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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