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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yuggoth] * 5
    #28320855 - 05/15/23 05:10 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Most folks have never taken mushrooms at a doctors office, this is a new phenomenon. Most people who take mushrooms, love taking mushrooms because it's fun and it feels good.

There are people who require them as a substitute for other compounds like SSRI. Plenty of folks who take them for this reason don't enjoy the experience.

I personally do not strictly enjoy the experience, it can be very unpredictable. I've taken it as a midical substitute, however, I realize that I'm in the minority.

Saying LC medicine is still dumb, even if you're strictly taking mushrooms for mental health reasons :lol:

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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 3
    #28320859 - 05/15/23 05:22 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
I 100% need these to not want to kill myself, actually. I have relief from chronic depression for the first time in my life. It’s rather bizarre to say these aren’t medicine, especially coming from someone who is usually so objective in their statements. This is strangely not just off base, but off the field entirely.




Do you think that you represent the vast majority of people taking mushrooms? I made the caveat for the 1% of folks who actually use the substance for medical reasons.

There certainly isn't so many folks in your position to juatify referring to liquid culture as medicine.



We absolutely don’t know that. 100% of the people I have personally shared mine with report tangible health benefits. But I share with people who have problems, so that does skew results.

With all the respect due to someone of your considerable intelligence, and I sincerely mean that, this is a wildly off base take. Mushrooms ARE medicine, even if people who don’t need it take it. It’s so strange to see you say these objectively false things.


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Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 4
    #28320865 - 05/15/23 05:33 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

I think you're missing my point. Clearly it's used as medicine and is actually medicine when used in that context. However, the number of people in aggregate who have consumed mushrooms, or any othe psychedelic compound in our modern, western society, has done so without regard to the health benefits, this should be self evident.

Most people are not like you and I. I have  a long life of pretty severe trauma, from childhood all the way through most of my adult life. I have CPTSD, it appears to be completely un treatable. Mushrooms have definitely been beneficial, but I will not argue that my use of psychedelic fungi reflecta the experience of most people who have ever taken this substance (within the confines of our western society).

My point was that we shouldn't have to label something as medicine to justify it's use. Which is true. Also, calling LC "LC medicine" is retarded. It's already called liquid culture.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 7
    #28320873 - 05/15/23 05:42 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Our western society isn’t the majority of mushroom use. I’d argue throughout human history people have taken mushrooms as medicine. It’s only recently they have been recreational.

I completely agree tho lc medicine is stupid sounding and inaccurate. most people today take these drugs for fun we are the exception imo.

Edited by mushboy (05/15/23 05:45 PM)

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy] * 5
    #28320877 - 05/15/23 05:44 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

That's why I made sure to specify it's use within our particular society.

It's historical use as medicine is one of the justifications used within our society to label it as medicine. Like I said, it shouldn't have to be medicine, or even good for us. Children are treated this way, adults should be allowed to enjoy things despite it's status in the pharmacopeia.

Quote:

mushboy said:
I completely agree tho lc medicine is stupid sounding and inaccurate. most people today take these drugs for fun we are the exception imo.




This. People aren't eatimg handfuls of PE at festivals because "health".

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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 5
    #28320881 - 05/15/23 05:54 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Ok I understand your position better now. That makes more sense. The only pushback I’ll give is that, because of prohibition, we really don’t know what percentage of people are using it as medicine. And I’m counting people who acquire it for recreation but accidentally receive benefits under the category of medicinal use as well.


--------------------
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Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 3
    #28320913 - 05/15/23 06:42 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Yeah, I mean, feeling good on it's own could be considered medicinal in a broad sense. "The best medicine is laughter" and all that.

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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 13
    #28320942 - 05/15/23 07:09 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Hey y'all, I owe an apology.

I was a real dick to Chris in here the other day and that was absolutely unshroomy.

Chris, I'm sorry.  Wether or not I think you're right shouldn't affect how I treat you as a person.  I took out my bad week on you and that's a dick move.


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #28320944 - 05/15/23 07:10 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Good man


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28320948 - 05/15/23 07:13 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

:crondance:


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InvisibleHILLBILLY OUTLAWS
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 2
    #28320957 - 05/15/23 07:21 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)



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Smellyhobbit said:
Embarrassment and bashfulness are leeches on your ability to learn.

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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 5
    #28320984 - 05/15/23 07:40 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
someone would quickly argue that we've really been smoking tobacco because of some hidden benefits to stimulating the nervous system.




Ackshually nicotine does have some surprising benefits; hunger suppression and being a vasodilator. So for folks into lifting/bodybuilding, nicotine can be a positive. But being wrapped in tobacco and burned obviously heavily and quickly outweighs the positives :lol: there are some people who get on the patches or gum for cutting season :shrug:

Just to throw this out there i'm another one where mushrooms helped get me out of depression and keep me from punching my own ticket. Actual microdoses between 0.15 g and 0.3 g, i only macrodose twice a year at most and do setup a meditative space.

I do agree with you p9

Edited by MLPismyOPSEC (05/15/23 07:41 PM)

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Invisiblealtford78
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: MLPismyOPSEC] * 4
    #28321285 - 05/16/23 01:10 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Having to go through a medical committee in order to be able to consume a substance is no less dystopian than prohibition.

Just remember than an adult can walk into a shop and buy enough alcohol/cigarettes to put themselves in a coma, destroy their lives and those of others, without a medical reason.

Again, if the medical benefits are what gets a foot in the door of decriminalization then that's fine, but you need to be extremely careful that it doesn't backfire and lock access to substances behind some medical firewall.


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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: altford78] * 4
    #28321322 - 05/16/23 02:54 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Sorry I started the conversation then went to bed. :stoned:

I whole heartedly agree with the idea that requiring the nod from the powers that be to use something which grows all around us & was here way before us is grotesque & should be ignored / pushed against at all costs.

Just my perspective: I don't have much of an issue with the word medicine being used, as looking at the bigger picture it's probably a step in the right direction. Newspapers (UK) used to demonise mushrooms & horror stories were told to children at school by Policemen about how if you take shrooms or acid you'll probably jump out of a window or think you're an orange & peel yourself etc.

Lots of people take mushrooms for a good time, lots of people take them purely for introspective reasons & to work on themselves, which to me makes it a medicine of sorts. I've done both quite heavily & now lean towards the latter more so. I suppose the connotations of the word can be quite ugly now due to capitalism & medicine being fairly intertwined but the word has its roots in ancient Greece. But I don't think the description is the issue I reckon it's attitudes & THE ILLUMINATI SUPPRESSING OUR CONSCIOUSNESS :goat:

So if there's a mental shift in society towards this stuff due to language & attitudes potentially due to language, and there seems to be currently, that's cool. Because shrooms definitely have the potential to change people & society for the better no?

But yes I agree from an anarchical perspective. Fuck having to prove & explain yourself for using nature.

As for the excerpt, good to hear some opinions on it because I was very baffled by the concept.

Edited by stockw (05/16/23 02:56 AM)

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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: altford78] * 6
    #28321334 - 05/16/23 03:13 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

altford78 said:
I think the point is that you should be able to trip balls without having to label it as medicine.



Yes.
I've actually had fussy people on here correct me for calling shrooms "drugs."

Part of the magic of magic mushrooms (and LSD) is that you can take them just to get high, but still have your life changed in a positive way, even long term.

We don't need a shaman and pure intention to be opened up by a trip.

Slightly off topic:

I am not an advocate of trying to convince people to take a "heroic" (large) dose the first time.

But the main reason that a tab of LSD in the 60s was often between 250 and 300 mics was the people making and distributing it were of the belief that if you take that much, even once, it will change you for the better.

After a lot of bad trips the amount per dose went down. I know you can still get single doses that large, but not on average.

Albert Hoffman even told Owsley that 250 mics was "a large overdose" for wide scale public consumption.


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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61] * 7
    #28321393 - 05/16/23 04:29 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:

Part of the magic of magic mushrooms (and LSD) is that you can take them just to get high, but still have your life changed in a positive way, even long term.

We don't need a shaman and pure intention to be opened up by a trip.






I find it cringy when some white boy from Spokane starts calling himself a shaman and charging big bucks for people to throw up and realize that it's okay to be human, and maybe don't be an asshole so much, because we're all connected.

So for me, I slightly change the context that you point to, and would say that we are all, at times, shamans. There isn't, or shouldn't be so much, a professional class that we have to get through, and be approved by. This goes for whether it's to just have an interesting time, for fun, or to help heal something.

The tendency of, in particular, for profit health care, greedy corporations and plastic shamans as some indigenous people call them, to gate keep and make it largely about money, is insidious and I think goes along with the mindset that people are supposed to have some excuse in order to just use psychedelics that have been used for thousands of years.


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V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: nektar61] * 7
    #28321413 - 05/16/23 04:58 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
I've actually had fussy people on here correct me for calling shrooms "drugs."




"Fussy people"... "Correct you"....

I've had Psychedelic Messiah Syndrome(I'm officially coining the term) people lose their fucking mind and go off on me for calling them drugs or saying that I only use them recreationally. Although TBF that was on reddit.

My favourite of their arguments is always "oh you don't respect the mushroom". Glad they can respect the mushroom but not the choices of others


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Offlinechris77
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28321438 - 05/16/23 05:19 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
Quote:

nektar61 said:

Part of the magic of magic mushrooms (and LSD) is that you can take them just to get high, but still have your life changed in a positive way, even long term.

We don't need a shaman and pure intention to be opened up by a trip.






I find it cringy when some white boy from Spokane starts calling himself a shaman and charging big bucks for people to throw up and realize that it's okay to be human, and maybe don't be an asshole so much, because we're all connected.

So for me, I slightly change the context that you point to, and would say that we are all, at times, shamans. There isn't, or shouldn't be so much, a professional class that we have to get through, and be approved by. This goes for whether it's to just have an interesting time, for fun, or to help heal something.

The tendency of, in particular, for profit health care, greedy corporations and plastic shamans as some indigenous people call them, to gate keep and make it largely about money, is insidious and I think goes along with the mindset that people are supposed to have some excuse in order to just use psychedelics that have been used for thousands of years.



i totally agree that it cannot be a "professional class" as you say. but the conclusion, that everyone is/can be a shaman from time to time is not necessarily correct imo.

shamanic tradition has to do with knowing through experience and being initiated by shamans who know what they are doing.
i am against the idea that shamanic practice can be taught or explained in courses. and i do believe that it is apprehended only by proper experience and as healing is concerned that is often very complex and doesnt come easy or from the good little bit of "personal experience", from a few (hundred) mushroom trips.
after all you can have a hundred trips and still not know what is really going on, right?
someone has to show you and you have to be open and ready to see it.


--------------------
the observer is the observed
            j. krishnamurti

Edited by chris77 (05/16/23 05:20 AM)

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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: chris77] * 2
    #28321463 - 05/16/23 05:43 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

chris77 said:


i totally agree that it cannot be a "professional class" as you say. but the conclusion, that everyone is/can be a shaman from time to time is not necessarily correct imo.

shamanic tradition has to do with knowing through experience and being initiated by shamans who know what they are doing.
i am against the idea that shamanic practice can be taught or explained in courses. and i do believe that it is apprehended only by proper experience and as healing is concerned that is often very complex and doesnt come easy or from the good little bit of "personal experience", from a few (hundred) mushroom trips.
after all you can have a hundred trips and still not know what is really going on, right?
someone has to show you and you have to be open and ready to see it.




I don't disagree, but I would also say that a good teacher shows people that they do the work themselves. A good teacher is one who doesn't give you anything. In fact they tend to strip away all the assumptions that we have and just ask us to pay attention to what's actually happening. When we do that, with anything that has us be present and pay deep attention and that involves our connections with everything and everyone, we are 'shamans' in that moment.

Integrating what we see and avoiding dead ends and all the rest, yes I agree that it takes time and discipline. At some point it's helpful to have a real human being, who's done the work themselves and can point us in helpful directions. But a couple of those helpful directions are to not take ourselves so seriously, to not add anything unecessary to what's happening in this moment, and to see that the teacher, the shaman, the priest or whatever is also another human being, who is making it up as they go along, as we all do.

Also, and this is one point that I think Stipe was making earlier, is that it's also okay to just have fun, to enjoy ourselves, to enjoy our lives. That's where I have a problem with the gatekeeping, the fake shamans, the whole mentality that we kind of are pressured to justify what we do and that having fun is seen as somehow a negative. It's not. It's just as sacred, if you like, as seeing our connectedness and all of the so called deep stuff. It's that puritanical mindset, the mindset that tends towards having to justify everything and seeing so called 'recreational use' as a bad thing almost, I would say is so pervasive in some countries that it's seen as normal and it's really not. It's kind of twisted and dark.


--------------------
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“Evey Hammond: Who are you?
V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: johnukguy] * 2
    #28321485 - 05/16/23 06:14 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

I can't think of a single person other than myself who's capable of: deep introspective thought while on mushrooms, who experiences nested fractal visuals, that feels spiritual, connected, etc. Every person I'veever met (including the hippies), without exception, eats mushrooms to drink more alcohol and laugh while out at parties, festivals, while camping, or going out to a bar.

This wook shit might be common here on the shroomery where folks with that world view are more likely to congregate, but I never see it out in the wild.

I'm a very introspective, philosophically inclined individual with somewhat of an acute sensitivity to all drugs, especially psychedelics, so a small dose goes quite a long ways. I "see" fractal "sacred geometry", I experience synaesthesia, and an tat tvamasi/ advaita vedanta level connectedness to all things; however, most folks in my experience have never even heard of fractals let alone any of the other descriptive language I've used because their personalities have never been exposed to those ideas.

As a result it's simply a party drug for literally everyone I've ever met, without exception. Your geographic location, local interests and culture surrounding the ideas associated with drugs in general will play a huge role in perceptions and usages.

It's important to remember that Psychedelics are "mind manifesting", they amplify set and setting. Aztec culture utilized "the flesh of the gods" in ceremonial murders to ensure all sorts of physical processes continued to function, like their economy, and the rising of the sun :lol:



The Aztec proletariat made a boof smoothy to shoot up their kiesters. When in Rome do as the Romans, not everyone is in this for the same reasons.

Quote:

Bro. I don't do drugs to think, I take drugs so that I don't have to think. Wtf are fractals, just let me get high, dude :lol:





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