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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28618371 - 01/12/24 06:42 AM (16 days, 6 hours ago)

My thoughts, I am going to be blunt here.

Why is 2.3.18 not available for viewing?

It seems like a list of trip reports, not a harm reduction tome.
It seems like section 1.1 is nearly all there is on harm reduction and the rest is a drug diary imitating material Shulgin published.

There is a shit ton of important stuff missing from this.
Like how meth, for example, increases calorie requirements as well as vitamin requirements. In other words a huge part of harm reduction is altering the dietary and vitamin intake to account for the impact on the body. Without tolerance some drugs can overheat or cause blood pressure issues in first time users, yet in the individual sections there is basically none of that kind of useful information.

Take Nitrous Oxide, it causes vitamin deficiencies. Heavy use leads to permanent nerve damage by depletion of B vitamins. Harm reduction information for this substance should include things like this, a user can avoid the issue by taking excess B vitamins. Speaking of this, does it even have a section on Nitrous?

My view is that this is far from the harm reduction piece it is intended to be. It's more like listening to someone brag about their drug use at an NA meeting. There is very little harm reduction material in the work. The individual drug sections are missing pretty much all of the substance specific harm reduction points that users need to be safer.

In the work it tells people to do their own research about things. Rather than provide the information needed it basically tells people to UTFSE and then provides a list of drugs the author took.

If you are going to write and distribute harm reduction information, then why not do that? How will distributing this help users be safer?
Dealers like it because it advertises drugs they sell by listing numerous drug experiences like food reviews.

I don't even want to write what I think about the San Pedro section.

To me the subject of Harm Reduction is very serious and passing this work off as an attempt to do that is fucking offensive. That's my polite version of my opinion on that.


Edited by Nillion (01/12/24 06:49 AM)


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InvisibleNillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28618423 - 01/12/24 07:48 AM (16 days, 5 hours ago)

There is a serious need for real harm reduction work.

Consider that people use things like air duster and rubber cement fumes to get high. I've met people who huffed gasoline to get high.

Where are these things in the book?

They aren't there, because it isn't a book about harm reduction for drug users, it is just a list of drugs that the author took.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28618433 - 01/12/24 08:02 AM (16 days, 4 hours ago)

To be more clear, I have two objections to the work.
The first is that it  clearly isn't about harm reduction. That objection disappears if the work isn't passed off as a harm reduction tome.

The second objection is that a lot of the information is incomplete, outdated or incorrect. The author has used quite a few drugs but appears to know surprisingly little about them and they repeat a number of myths and misconceptions.

The book does contain a lot of useful and relevant information about drug use that users can find handy, it is not a bad work in that sense. One could even see it as a type of guide for drug use, it works well as that, but the idea that it is a harm reduction tome is quite offensive to me. I take harm reduction very seriously and this book is not an example of quality harm reduction information.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28622422 - 01/15/24 05:19 PM (12 days, 19 hours ago)

And yet:

Where is the treatment protocol for ingestion of excess MDMA?
Like cold showers and hydration?

There is nothing like that in the work. It is literally missing tons of harm reduction information that can and does save lives. People who are literally dying from something like excess ingestion of amphetamine-like molecules cannot be helped by this work.

It's crazy to call this a harm reduction tome.

It has good info, but it is a journal of drug use of one person who has nothing to say about numerous drugs that people use and are harmed by, in addition to it lacking life saving information about the drugs he does mention.

If you were going to write a book about harm reduction for drug users why not include information that can and does save lives? Like WTF?

I know it seems like I'm being a dick about this, but seriously, this is life and death stuff.

Harm reduction isn't a game or a matter of bragging what drugs you have tried and there is a hell of a lot more to it than just testing to see what things are.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623016 - 01/16/24 06:53 AM (12 days, 6 hours ago)

Like your book Shulgin's work contains excellent information, but his work isn't claimed to be about harm reduction.

As mentioned, your work is missing valuable life saving information that is vital to harm reduction.

It is a great drug journal, but it is not harm reduction oriented and claiming it is seems spectacularly egoistic and dishonest to me.

I actually typed up drug specific harm reduction information and circulated it among local addicts in 2016 and it included how to maintain health, get medical attention and it included life saving information that people can use to prevent death if they or their friends ingest too much of certain drugs.

The only problem was that most addicts don't read much at all.
So I then gave small lectures to specific people, including a couple of dealers and this information was disseminated successfully.

I also included recovery times for cognitive normalcy, basically one has to be sober 9-18 months before the brain starts returning to normal after certain types of addiction. Harm reduction is a passion I have had for a long time. This is all valid criticism and you invited that with your first post. Note also that I had the option of writing these things anonymously and didn't do so. I'm not talking shit, I'm being legit.

You could save lives if you actually included life saving information in the book.


Edited by Nillion (01/16/24 07:05 AM)


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InvisibleNillion
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Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623024 - 01/16/24 07:07 AM (12 days, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

DMTrott said:
PS: I am sometimes asked why The Drug Users Bible was converted to a PDF rather than a website.




Because when you made it a commercial website and called it the Drug Users Bible and tried to sell it as a book in 2022, it didn't make any money?

https://www.drugusersbible.com

Note that you didn't mention that part or include a link to that site in your post here.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0995593698/

Your motivation was greed, not harm reduction and the contents and history of how you have approached that show this quite clearly.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623029 - 01/16/24 07:17 AM (12 days, 5 hours ago)

I am letting people make up their minds.

I am providing valid criticism about what I feel is a dishonest attempt to pass off a drug journal as a harm reduction work.

People can indeed decide for themselves what they think.

I did.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623034 - 01/16/24 07:22 AM (12 days, 5 hours ago)

Nor am I the only person who has had these observations:
https://www.amazon.com/Drug-Users-Bible-Extended-Mitigation/dp/0995593698#customerReviews

Quote:

Drugs are not going away and we need education more than demonisation.
So I completely agree with the premise of this book! I really loved the health and safety and 10 commandments section.
However, I would have loved this book to give me more objective facts about the individual drugs (i.e. some specific info about before and aftercare with the individual drugs, about research and possible effects /good and bad/, about what to avoid and so on and so on). This book however, is mostly subjective experience reports. Which, don't get me wrong, if you have never heard about any experiences or don't want to google, you might get something out of. I commend the author for his experimenting and his orientation to detail, but when I look up a drug in this book the only thing I'll get is name(s) for the drug, it's delivery form, often very vague or nonexistent dosage information, origin, duration and rating on the shulgin scale. The author then uses most of the rest of the individual articles to decribe his own experience. Very randomly you get some actual objective individual safety information on the drug. I also am a bit skeptic on whether or not this book is thoroughly researched in an academic sense (of course academic research can be biased as well!




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InvisibleNillion
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Posts: 1,000
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Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623112 - 01/16/24 08:41 AM (12 days, 4 hours ago)

So you are calling me a troll now?

Because I shared my opinion about the book?
Because I pointed out that I am not the only person with that opinion?

Is valid criticism actually trolling a person?

I do find the idea that this is a harm reduction work to be dishonest and insulting to those who actually do that work as well as insulting to those who died from lack of good information that can save lives, information that is entirely absent from your book. That's not an insult, it's a valid opinion.

Quote:

After 8 hostile posts I thought you were allowing others to make their own minds up? I saw that a couple of members did so earlier, and you got your teeth into them.




I provided a counter argument, I didn't put my teeth into or insult anyone, including you.  I also asked several questions that you ignored.

Where is the section on Nitrous oxide?
What about inhalants, like gasoline and rubber cement?

I believe that you are unable to respond to valid criticism.

Why did you include so little information about harm reduction in a book supposed to be about harm reduction?
Real question.


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InvisibleNillion
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Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623145 - 01/16/24 09:00 AM (12 days, 3 hours ago)

And I ask again, why is the work missing so much vital life saving information about drug use?

Why did you choose to claim it is about harm reduction and not include most of the information that is relevant to harm reduction?

Feel free to complain to moderators, I expect more than one has a strong dislike for me. I've had that impression for sure.

Still, they tend to be reasonable and I will abide by their advice.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623161 - 01/16/24 09:15 AM (12 days, 3 hours ago)

If I wrote up some of the harm reduction information that your work is missing and sent it to you, would you include it in the work?

I will even give you permission to pass it off as your own, so that you need not give me any credit.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623565 - 01/16/24 02:20 PM (11 days, 22 hours ago)

It's a trip report tome, not a harm reduction tome.

Presenting it as harm reduction seems incredibly egotistical and dishonest to me.

If it was presented as a type of Trip Report Encyclopedia then I wouldn't have an issue.

I'm on the older side and have a lot of friend who are dead, who could have been saved by good information, but this book doesn't have that kind of info and it is offensive to me to claim that it motivated by an effort to save lives.

I'm not alone in this opinion.


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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The Drug Users Bible: Download Free Of Charge [Re: DMTrott]
    #28623577 - 01/16/24 02:31 PM (11 days, 22 hours ago)

Fair enough.

To quote the Author:
Quote:

Remember that ignorance kills, education saves lives.



That is exactly my point.

I'll disengage from this now.


Edited by Nillion (01/16/24 02:33 PM)


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