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InvisiblePinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
Nothing is perfect!
    #28318308 - 05/13/23 12:52 PM (8 months, 12 days ago)

Then what is perfect in itself?

Think about it like this: if you look at yourself in the mirror, you see yourself.

Surely, perfect mirrors perfect.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28318341 - 05/13/23 01:25 PM (8 months, 12 days ago)

godly put


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28318909 - 05/14/23 12:48 AM (8 months, 11 days ago)

The category 'perfect' is perfect.

👌


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28319214 - 05/14/23 08:06 AM (8 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
godly put



:hatsoff::mypleasure:


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OfflineLucisM
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Registered: 03/28/15
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28321283 - 05/16/23 01:04 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)


Someone said that I should put my faith in a deity because I was raised within a non-denominational religious home, but I feel like the only thing which is worthy of being called "God" is something which hasn't made any of the mistakes that I have made, and I have made a lot of mistakes in the past.

I have yet to see this deity but there are some good candidates in certain schools of philosophy, psychology, and spirituality which are good examples to follow on how to be excellent to one another and live by the golden rule if that's your thing, which on a personal level I like treating others how I like to be treated, but I wouldn't call those candidates deities.

This leads me to believe that "God" might just be a state of consciousness which some rise to when we hit a non-dual type of thinking, that we're all eternal, and that there's really nothing to fear in life we just get caught in fear because we cling to this life so tightly because it help us define our "meat sacks" which are just vehicles for consciousness, we're easily amused and distracted by the world and often forget about cultivating the "important" stuff which I am sure many of us know what that is...love, respect for self and others, etc, etc.

So I haven't seen perfection yet and I doubt I will.

If one reads about deities, they're often ripe with horrible deeds they do or have done to humankind so it seems a bit strange to look for a deity that is "perfect" but might make more sense to look for decent example of how to treat others in the places they're found.

It seems like striving for perfection leads to imperfection, I like that Wabi-Sabi thinking, that within the imperfections of life we can find things which helps us perfect ourselves, we're never going to be perfect but trying to better ourselves is an admirable thing to do.



Does that make sense?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Lucis]
    #28321290 - 05/16/23 01:18 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

yes, lots of sense.

when I take selfies, at least half the time I look like some old guy that has just been struggling with a difficult problem, and I have a "what the fuck" expression going.

I notice that most people either look like that or they are in the midst of dealing with something.

I would prefer that my face were inspiring when people looked at me, but now I am more inspired by others, because "what the fuck" is so ubiquitous and universal.

Dogs and cats seem to look like that too.

maybe we are mirroring WTF??


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Lucis]
    #28321568 - 05/16/23 07:32 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Lucis said:

Someone said that I should put my faith in a deity because I was raised within a non-denominational religious home, but I feel like the only thing which is worthy of being called "God" is something which hasn't made any of the mistakes that I have made, and I have made a lot of mistakes in the past.

I have yet to see this deity but there are some good candidates in certain schools of philosophy, psychology, and spirituality which are good examples to follow on how to be excellent to one another and live by the golden rule if that's your thing, which on a personal level I like treating others how I like to be treated, but I wouldn't call those candidates deities.

This leads me to believe that "God" might just be a state of consciousness which some rise to when we hit a non-dual type of thinking, that we're all eternal, and that there's really nothing to fear in life we just get caught in fear because we cling to this life so tightly because it help us define our "meat sacks" which are just vehicles for consciousness, we're easily amused and distracted by the world and often forget about cultivating the "important" stuff which I am sure many of us know what that is...love, respect for self and others, etc, etc.

So I haven't seen perfection yet and I doubt I will.

If one reads about deities, they're often ripe with horrible deeds they do or have done to humankind so it seems a bit strange to look for a deity that is "perfect" but might make more sense to look for decent example of how to treat others in the places they're found.

It seems like striving for perfection leads to imperfection, I like that Wabi-Sabi thinking, that within the imperfections of life we can find things which helps us perfect ourselves, we're never going to be perfect but trying to better ourselves is an admirable thing to do.



Does that make sense?




more or less perfectly. :mushroom2:

:thumbup: good comprehension shown esp in the first 3 paragraphs.

Although, to borrow a phrase, I'd add a footnote to the striving for perfection-thingy as being likened to a situation wherein, by default, we are like one who while in the midst of water cries out desperately due to extreme thirst.

In other words: like a misunderstanding born of natural ignorance leading to potential ruin, especially when getting in over our head by way of ignorance-born-straying, due to craving, leading us ahead of our own limits with respect to natural-good-sense-awareness.

However, if while when caught up in drowning one does in fact happen upon their real sense, then awareness of water is found, too- and an instinctual gulp surely follows if energy allows. 

Then- the so called imperfect understanding, or initial misunderstanding, that led to the striving-craving-yearning-chase, was not necessarily all for naught.  :cheers:

Illusion & Delusion can be quite a pair of teachers. :takingnotes:

And.... since they are so plentiful we should all be super wise men right now...right guys?  :lol:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/16/23 08:26 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28321646 - 05/16/23 08:23 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...

Illusion & Delusion can be quite a pair of teachers. :sadyes:

...



In most ways we are them - teacher and student at once :yinyang:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28321656 - 05/16/23 08:27 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

:douchewink:


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/16/23 09:30 AM)


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Posts: 3,127
Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Lucis]
    #28321918 - 05/16/23 12:17 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Lucis said:
So I haven't seen perfection yet and I doubt I will.



There is a contradiction in that quote.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28321974 - 05/16/23 01:02 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Nothing is imperfect! 

I try to remind myself of that every day.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28321978 - 05/16/23 01:09 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Newborn children..
The only perfection I have ever had in my life.


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28321984 - 05/16/23 01:16 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Nothing is imperfect! 

I try to remind myself of that every day.



Interesting flip around, Tubs. :thumbup:

However, we're drifting towards the subjective idea of things in this thread.

To keep it more on-topic and in regards to the OP: Imperfect mirrors imperfect just like perfect mirrors perfect. When imperfect mirrors perfect we are deluding ourselves and it is not reality.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Pinkerton] * 2
    #28322002 - 05/16/23 01:32 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Many know I'm a long-time recovering perfectionist.  I've read many books on perfectionism and have put a lot of work into neutralizing the shame that drives it. 

One problem with the concept of "self-improvement" is that it becomes a lifelong project that one never finishes.  I do not think of reducing suffering as "improving myself."  Imagine a dog, cat, or a bird trying to improve themselves.  That would be silly.  Yet humans tend to think they can improve themself.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28322017 - 05/16/23 01:47 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

You are derailing this thread.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28322622 - 05/16/23 11:33 PM (8 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Nothing is imperfect! 

I try to remind myself of that every day.



this is perfect too


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28323238 - 05/17/23 12:19 PM (8 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Many know I'm a long-time recovering perfectionist.  I've read many books on perfectionism and have put a lot of work into neutralizing the shame that drives it. 

One problem with the concept of "self-improvement" is that it becomes a lifelong project that one never finishes.  I do not think of reducing suffering as "improving myself."  Imagine a dog, cat, or a bird trying to improve themselves.  That would be silly.  Yet humans tend to think they can improve themself.




I see a lot of subjectivity in both the perfect and imperfect. Both can be subjectively useful as long as one doesn't let the idea drag them around by the nose. The only objective perfection I can think of is objects of utility. If a key opens a door without trouble it's reasonably perfect. Flawless gems, clothes that fit just right, etc.

Anyway, nothing is perfect, everything is perfect, one of those paradoxes that arises from two distinct points of view.

I think to some degree self improvement should be a lifelong project. A healthy diet and exercise are among the most functional self improvements, must be continued and adjusted year by year. Other things involving mental adjustments can be revelatory but are probably more often the product of time and experience which never reach perfection for much the same reason.

Whether physical or mental, a certain level of health/functionality when gained and maintained isn't perfect but close enough. Perhaps body builders and monks have something in common, going beyond reasonable functionality and seeking perfection.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28324048 - 05/17/23 09:31 PM (8 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Imagine a dog, cat, or a bird trying to improve themselves.  That would be silly.  Yet humans tend to think they can improve themself.





A lot of animals use tools to improve their odds of achieving something.

Crows use human cars to crush nuts, primates use tools to get things like ants/termites out of their living areas so they can consume them, I often wonder if animals have spiritual experiences but that discussion is for another time. 

I know I have seen dogs and cats "dance" and act high from being fed certain animal treats, then they tear around the house or yard acting ecstatic as if intoxicated, that might be seen as a form of "improving" oneself since humans often trip to "improve" themselves, perhaps animals are improving themselves by "feeling their oats" a bit and the consumption of something delicious is enough for their ecstatic release, it's like kids being high on sugar.

Have you ever seen those dolphins getting high videos?  If by getting high they're creating closer social bonds, and it appears in the video that they're bonding, then I think that is them improving themselves. 

This leads to a very important question regarding human social bonding in relation to getting high on certain substances and legality of those substances. 

Should substances like mushrooms, certain cacti, cannabis, or any natural substance which can drastically change consciousness if used safely and properly, be illegal if they can create a more close-knit community which functions better and is more empathetic, kind, and open minded?

If by getting high in a group you can create a more close-knit community with similar ideals, a shared vision, etc, then you might create a safer society, and I wonder how this mode of thinking might be understood by the powers that be which make drugs laws.

Could a more idyllic society be created from the introspection brought about by psychedelics, or by the embers they leave burning in the mind after the user has got the call and hung up the phone?


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28324058 - 05/17/23 09:40 PM (8 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I think to some degree self improvement should be a lifelong project. A healthy diet and exercise are among the most functional self improvements, must be continued and adjusted year by year. Other things involving mental adjustments can be revelatory but are probably more often the product of time and experience which never reach perfection for much the same reason.

Whether physical or mental, a certain level of health/functionality when gained and maintained isn't perfect but close enough. Perhaps body builders and monks have something in common, going beyond reasonable functionality and seeking perfection.




I like that!:thumbup:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Nothing is perfect! [Re: Lucis]
    #28324059 - 05/17/23 09:41 PM (8 months, 7 days ago)

Well let's be honest.. perfect means 100%

So say having 65% of something or telling the truth 74% of the time..

If you theory craft.. you can say "hey maybe I can increase a 65% to 66%" then you can increase a percentage..

Using that logic one might be able to eventually get 100% aka perfection.

What if anything is preventing or limiting a person to say 99% but not 100?

increase in inches. But why the limits?

Godels incompleteness theorem?


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