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Offlineherbstation
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: Lithop]
    #28277018 - 04/14/23 08:30 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
Quote:

herbstation said:
I have been speaking more simply but I feel more emotionally effective when I use a handful of meaningful words.





Spot on.
When you're using bulky/excessive language only for your sense of ego, it shows to others I reckon and reeks.
The goal of conversation, unless otherwise agreed, should be that of direct conveying of the message at hand, IMO.




You get it! I used to argue with a roommate about this.

You can reduce your vocabulary even further by using effective body language. Doesn't work so well over the internet, though :tongue:

Poses linguistically


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Expanding my mind until I can join the collective


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Offlinesolarshroomster
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: herbstation] * 1
    #28277046 - 04/14/23 08:46 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

The world I "see" in front of me is a production of my Mind, and I only ever live inside my mind. It's not like you can stage a walkout on your own mind.

It's so incredibly obvious now, but it wasn't before.


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28277109 - 04/14/23 09:32 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

herbstation said:

You get it! I used to argue with a roommate about this.

You can reduce your vocabulary even further by using effective body language. Doesn't work so well over the internet, though :tongue:




To me, this evoked a scene in which you were arguing in mono-sylables and grunting like a caveman-type while your roommate wanders round the room postulating the benefits of a varied vocabulary like the fucking smart Gremlin from Gremlins 2 :lol:



And yeah, due to increased social interaction I've been realearning the power of body language and eye contact.
It can be pretty interesting.

Quote:

herbstation said:
Poses linguistically




:lmafo:

Quote:

solarshroomster said:
The world I "see" in front of me is a production of my Mind, and I only ever live inside my mind. It's not like you can stage a walkout on your own mind.





A production of entirely your mind, or a collaboration?

You can't stage a walkout- but you can sure as hell lobby for better working conditions :awesomenod:


EDIT

THIS MORNING I FOUND :deepman: whoaaaaah... Smart Gremlin was here all along.


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Edited by Lithop (04/15/23 01:21 AM)


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28277128 - 04/14/23 09:43 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Some say it as conquering or killing the mind, thinking of Vasistha, but meaning ceasing (undue) movement of thought. I agree though it is not a walkout but an arrival. I've been working on a balance today, like having an inner eye minding the rabble while functioning externally or observing.


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Offlineherbstation
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28277352 - 04/14/23 12:28 PM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:

To me, this evoked a scene in which you were arguing in mono-sylables and grunting like a caveman-type while your roommate wanders round the room postulating the benefits of a varied vocabulary like the fucking smart Gremlin from Gremlins 2 :lol:









:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You have no idea how accurate
He was a little gremliny guy and this gave me the funniest image

:lol:

For reference here's how off this dude's social skills were: I was going out with a friend for dinner and I invited him. He told my friend that I couldn't go, had her pick him up secretly, and then when he got home he said he took her out on a date. She said that was not her impression so he tried to convince her she had started dating him. Safe to say homie didn't get invited much after that and that gremlin image made me actually cackle
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Also about a week later he was trying to explain to me why people need to be bullied in middle school. He said the psychological damage is necessary.
:allrightythen:

I wonder if there is a human sense of "I wish everyone else had my flaws so at least I could understand them" because I can relate to that.

I am quite interested in the Nash equilibrium and zero-sum games, which is the idea that (for some games) there is an optimal strategy that should always win in expectation (eventually, over time).
For example there is a poker strategy so effective that you cannot beat it, you can only play it to try to tie anyone else playing it. Life, however, is not a 0 sum game. I wonder if there is a "Nash lifestyle" that nets the most possible positive improvement out of every day. I wonder if taking damage would be part of that strategy or if you would always avoid that. The link between this and my roommate is a thin one but if you research Nash equilibrium I think you'll see what I mean.


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: herbstation] * 2
    #28277408 - 04/14/23 01:05 PM (9 months, 9 days ago)

It is funny the path this thread had taken and is taking :lol: makes sense as thought is observed in the form of symbols and symbols can be letters and letters can be formed into words which then are used as a means to convey ideas to interact with the world  :sun:

Tried to look up etymology for boffin as I've never heard the term, it's a mystery iirc something to do with British navy maybe first using it , a British word though:lol:

I don't know really all words have interesting etymology, even first names do ( thats kinda what started my etymological kick ) I think the word person is my favorite because the word person comes from the latin persona - which was what they called the masks worn by actors in a play :awemazing:

Perhaps an etymology thread is in order for the future :strokebeard:

Loved the shrodingers douchebag :awehigh:
Bonsai :awemazing:

Wild similarities of the poem shared by lithop and syncro :mindblown: :heart:

I do ultimately think that everybody interprets language differently and that plays a huge part in one's worldview

I don't know if I like overstanding either , I don't want to stand over anything  , though you can't have an over without an under :yinyang:

So much more to address so little time!

:peace:


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54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28278335 - 04/15/23 04:23 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
It is funny the path this thread had taken and is taking :lol: makes sense as thought is observed in the form of symbols and symbols can be letters and letters can be formed into words which then are used as a means to convey ideas to interact with the world  :sun:




:awesomenod:
Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
Tried to look up etymology for boffin as I've never heard the term, it's a mystery iirc something to do with British navy maybe first using it , a British word though:lol:




I believe it come from the Latin "boff" (also see boofing) meaning 'to cram in'.

Used in a sentence:

"Look at that philospher man, bet he's boffin them books in his cave!"

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
I think the word person is my favorite because the word person comes from the latin persona - which was what they called the masks worn by actors in a play :awemazing:




One of my favourites too. :thumbup:


Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
Perhaps an etymology thread is in order for the future :strokebeard:





Could be cool- I'll start amassing some words I wanna dive into.


--------------------


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: Lithop]
    #28278438 - 04/15/23 06:08 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

:mitebecool:

:canthelpbutlaugh:

I have a bunch of screenshots iirc of etymologies , now I wanna know the etymology of etymology-  I think the logy is greek for "study of" :strokebeard:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: connectedcosmos] * 3
    #28278541 - 04/15/23 08:04 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I asked the data god - etymon I believe was said as true sense (or original meaning). Study of true sense. :levitate:


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: syncro] * 3
    #28278589 - 04/15/23 08:33 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

Interesting syncro! The study of the sense of truth :awemazing:

I just found out the etymology of the word "thug"


early 19th century (in thug (sense 2)): from Hindi į¹­hag ā€˜swindler, thief’, based on Sanskrit sthagati ā€˜he covers or conceals’. thug (sense 1) arose in the mid 19th century.


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Offlineherbstation
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: connectedcosmos] * 3
    #28278592 - 04/15/23 08:35 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

Ontology - the study of existence
On means to exist
Or esse in Latin, est = "it exists"
I quite like the "estus flask" in Dark Souls because it is made from a soul and it sort-of translates to "flask full of existence/self"

Epistemology - the study of knowing
My interpretation is "the breadth of things I can rest upon"
Epi - across or over like a measurement, representing the whole thing. In this case the whole of what I know. Stem sort of meaning source/root/base. So what I "know" is a collection of my thoughts that has a firm base (of empirical knowledge I can logically synthesize them from).

Etymology - the study of meaning (of language)
Literally means "the study of the real"
From etumos meaning true
Which is from eteos (objective truth)

Related to, but different from ethos (personal truth, character)


Tautology is a fun one too (auto-logy).

A note on classic tautology ("deja Vu all over again for the umpteenth time). I believe that stating the same baseline multiple ways is not always redundant, in fact it illuminates the many angles and contexts from which we derive meaning. Even repeating the same exact word can add meaning. For example drawing a "square" is theoretically the same as a "square square" but if I were to repeat the word in a story you would understand that I had perceived this particular even-sided rectangle as extra right angular. Similarly I can say blue blue or "no I mean it was BIG big". Arguably "big big" means more than "large". The universe exists, then it exists again, then again, and each moment is given additional meaning by the context.

To extend that: you are yourself and you will never be anything else but you can iterate without changing and become "yourself's yourself"
A child born named "Eve" has reached her full potential when she has become "Eve's Eve"
:pointmade:

Definitely down for an etymology thread. I also think it's fascinating how slurs and insults form. The origins of words like God, Yahweh (YHWH), Shang-Di (Di) etc are always good too

Looking forward to more words

Cheers
Herb


--------------------
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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28297358 - 04/27/23 09:25 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

I was considering the teaching that the world appearance and movement of thought together cease. Ceasing movement of thought can seem overwhelming with constant impression and reflex occurring, so I thought just to reduce it to words, no talking within, no words.

The fruit was very good. I was convincing myself that the body, concreteness is due to words, lack of which is release. Then I thought of animals, apparently bound as we are - how do they think? They must suffer far less, I thought, when they don't have constant language going on inside. But they still are caught incarnate. They must think in pictures, enough to convince them they are their bodies, challenging the thought that words are key.

In the esoterism of words, the sea, the matrika, matrix, and numbers, the 7 the cube unfolded is the cross of the human body on which is constantly crucified the Logos. (The Secret Doctrine) Bodily, separate identification 'kills' the divine awareness in us, yet in the matrika, the Sanskrit alphabet for example, is also liberation.


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: syncro]
    #28298432 - 04/28/23 06:04 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

I just realized I never responded back to this thread thread :wink::facepalm:

Very cool post herbstation :nerd::awesomenod:

Interesting syncro:strokebeard:
How do animals think ? Do they have language? Are we animals?  I like to think that all animals think they are human

I was re-reading some of atma bodha this morning and it reminded me of your post, and language speech etc



--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #28298782 - 04/28/23 10:49 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

I don't think I've seen it so plainly stated from Vedanta what ACIM as well drives, and I think I saw it elsewhere recently, that effect is one with cause, no delay. In the world of bodily sense it is not apparent. In mind, that held as what we are, effects are immediate with causes, being accepted immediate with acceptance.

Considering more in Vasistha terms, the world appearance is said to be neither real nor unreal, not unreal because it is dependent on consciousness, not real because all is that. The contemplation can serve to 'return' consciousness to matter, or that all is energy. Subduing movement of thought does the same; removing concreteness within removes it without showing the world's nature, perception, is inner reflection.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: syncro]
    #28299838 - 04/29/23 09:44 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

I noticed the appendix with hymns and stanzas.

A CUDGEL FOR DELUSION

Renounce, O fool, your ceaseless thirst
For hoarding gold and precious gems;
Content yourself with what may come
Through deeds performed in earlier lives1;
Devote your mind to righteousness
And let dispassion be your law.

Remember, riches but bring grief;
Truly, no joy abides in them.
A rich man even fears his son:
This is his portion everywhere.
Who is your wife? And who your child?
Strange indeed is this mortal world!

Who are you? And who is your own?
Where is the region whence you come?
Brother, ponder on these things.

Boast not of youth of friends or wealth;
Swifter than eyes can wink, by Time
Each one of these is stolen away*
Abjure the illusion of the world
And join yourself to timeless Truth.

Give up the curse of lust and wrath;
Give up delusion, give up greed;
Remember who you really are.
Fools are they that are blind to Self:
Cast into hell, they suffer there.+

Make of a temple or tree your home,
Clothe yourself in the skin of a deer.
And use the bare earth for your bed.
Avoiding gifts and sense delights,
Could any fail to be content,
Blest with dispassion such as this?

Be not attached to friend or foe,
To son or kinsman, peace or war;
If you aspire to Vishnu's realm,
Look upon all things equally.

Vishnu alone it is who dwells
In you, in me, in everything;
Empty of meaning is your wrath,
And the impatience you reveal.
Seeing yourself in everyone,
Have done with all diversity.

Control the self, restrain the breath,
Sift out the transient from the True,
Repeat the holy name of God,
And still the restless mind within.

To this, the universal rule,
Apply yourself with heart and soul.

Uncertain is the life of man
As rain-drops on a lotus leaf;
The whole of humankind is prey
To grief and ego and disease:
Remember this unfailingly.

Why do all things distress your mind?
Has reason quite abandoned you?
Have you no guide to hold you firm,
Instructing you of life and death?

Cherish your guru's lotus feet
And free yourself without delay
From the enslavement of this world;
Curb your senses and your mind
And see the Lord within your heart.

These dozen stanzas I have penned
To spur my pupils on their way;
Unless pangs surpass the pangs of hell.


1 The results of actions done in previous lives are reaped without much effort. A man's heart and soul should be devoted to contemplation of God and not to accumulating of worldly profit.

My comments:

* "Each one of these is stolen away."
I take this also with that it is incorrect to believe we lose what we love, that nothing is lost that is given even if reinterpreted where only that entirely unuseful is disregarded, and that all things in remembrance are eternal.

+ "Cast into hell, they suffer there."
I don't think it's necessary to let this be fearful, as in one hell that is the worst, or that all are horrid. Broadly, the realms are of various levels, the higher of which are like children attending school, these with helpful guides, etc. Gathering from various sources, I like to think this.

In Hinduism the realm below this one is about pleasure, the one below that is about materialism. The caveat is that we must then take another earthly birth.

In Spiritism, which I take is the flavor of Gone West, the lower realms are about learning and deciding where a sincere change of mind is an opening to ascend. Btw I found a lead to continue the material in the Nosso Lar, Astral City series by Francisco Xavier, maybe subject matter for the After Death thread. Just found - I think a main one on Spiritism is The Spirits' Book by Allan Kardec.
:mushroom2:


Edited by syncro (04/29/23 04:57 PM)


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Offlinesolarshroomster
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: syncro]
    #28310076 - 05/07/23 09:43 AM (8 months, 17 days ago)

The One is not just an intellectual concept but something that can be experienced, an experience where one goes beyond all multiplicity.

Plotinus writes, "We ought not even to say that he will see, but he will be that which he sees, if indeed it is possible any longer to distinguish between seer and seen, and not boldly to affirm that the two are one."

That was from ~250 AD. Somehow, nearly two centuries later, we are still in awe about the same thing.

Why is this not more talked about?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


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Offlineherbstation
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28310089 - 05/07/23 10:12 AM (8 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

solarshroomster said:
Why is this not more talked about?




Capitalism works better if you can put a division between yourself and your slaves employees. The more separated you are from your victims customers the better as well.

How can I have fun exploiting you if I accept that you're part of me?


--------------------
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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: herbstation]
    #28316120 - 05/11/23 05:18 PM (8 months, 13 days ago)

I was meditating in the shower today and focusing on breathing, and I started wondering at what point is the air coming into me , become a part of me? And it was funny because then I had for abut a glimpse of a second caught what I would explain as union with the source

I realized it maybe has to do with identification  , and whatever you want to identify with you could use to answer that question, (subjectively essentially) of when the air becomes "me"

It had reminded me of when I was around the age of 20 a buddy at work had asked me "when you take a drink of water at what point does the water become "you" (or maybe a part of you I can't remember exactly)


:lol:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: Seer and the seen [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28316402 - 05/11/23 08:59 PM (8 months, 13 days ago)

Those moments. :awemazing:

I had one not long ago, in a down rhythm I'm searching for the doorway, and in an instant I'm at the single eye and in access to the clear ananda (bliss), and the face of a teacher, sharing joy in the remembrance.


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