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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Mono tub newbie
    #28274295 - 04/12/23 11:25 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

This is my first post about my first project.
I have a spawn bag that looks contam free and is fully colonized. Ready to spawn to bulk in a 64 quart mono tub using five pounds of Boomer bag substrate.
I have been reading threads here, ther and everywhere and watched some vids.
There is a lot of contradictory information out there. A lot… hence my post.
Could someone please clarify and “pin” down - pun intended -what the real pathway forward is?
Here are my questions-
1. Bubble wrap casing layer? Some swear by it. Others think it is unnecessary?
2. if it ( wrap or wax paper)is a good idea, do you place it in the tub during colonization? Unfortunately I have the tub in a room with a dehumidifier that keeps it around 50rh- no choice here folks…
3. Poly fill or micro pore tape? Which is better?
4. Do you add the fill or tape layer first or duct tape first and then add the breathable stuff?
5. Is fanning/ misting an outdated idea or will it work? I would think contaminants would get in….
6. How much light? Does it need to placed/ directed or is ambient light work?
7. Ideal light cycle? 10? 12 hours? Or less?
My bag colonization has taken forever so I really want to get this right. Thanks in advance!

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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom] * 5
    #28274301 - 04/12/23 11:31 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

1. Bubble wrap casing layer? Some swear by it. Others think it is unnecessary?

NO

2. if it ( wrap or wax paper)is a good idea, do you place it in the tub during colonization? Unfortunately I have the tub in a room with a dehumidifier that keeps it around 50rh- no choice here folks…

See above NO

3. Poly fill or micro pore tape? Which is better?

For what?

4. Do you add the fill or tape layer first or duct tape first and then add the breathable stuff?

I suggest you use a monotub tek like this one.

5. Is fanning/ misting an outdated idea or will it work? I would think contaminants would get in….

NO Fanning, mist only when surface conditions require. Also, by the time you spawn your grain bag, whether or not it will contaminate is basically a foregone conclusion.

6. How much light? Does it need to placed/ directed or is ambient light work?

Ambient light is fine.

7. Ideal light cycle? 10? 12 hours? Or less?

12/12 probably. 24/7 is fine too in my experience.

My bag colonization has taken forever so I really want to get this right. Thanks in advance!

Welcome to the Shroomery! :mushroom2:


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Edited by myc_ousin_vinny (04/12/23 11:42 AM)

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InvisibleWay
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: myc_ousin_vinny]
    #28274306 - 04/12/23 11:36 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: myc_ousin_vinny] * 1
    #28274319 - 04/12/23 11:43 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Just a heads up, but if your bag took along time to colonize it may not be as healthy as you think it is.  A healthy bag will usually colonize within 2-3 weeks once growth starts.  If it takes longer, there's usually some level of bacteria fighting your mycelium.

How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE

Recognizing and dealing with contamination

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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: PBJ710]
    #28274580 - 04/12/23 02:35 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Bag looks good on outside- no wet spots, no discoloration or mycelium with different growth habit. The question about micropore tape versus poly fill refers to the holes in the monotubs side

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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom]
    #28274590 - 04/12/23 02:42 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Have you already cut holes?


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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: myc_ousin_vinny]
    #28275168 - 04/12/23 10:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

No. I plan on cutting them tomorrow and getting the whole shebang going- sterilize tub with alcohol, use a wiped down contractors bag to hold the substrate to prevent side pins etc. I have to relook up the hole number and size. I went ahead and bought micropore tape this pm. Worried now my spawn bag might be harboring bacteria, but it smellls pretty neutral. Spawn time took a month+. Temp was 68 though which may have slowed things down. Plus I was probably messing around with it too much freaking out the threads so to speak picking the bag up- gently- and looking at progress.
Had to break it up three times before the bag went white.

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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom]
    #28275179 - 04/12/23 10:47 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Still I have got to say, the hard no on bubble tek was given with no rationale… I have read several post talking about faster pinning and better pinning numbers using that technique. Hard to suss out the best way- everyone has an opinion. Fanning great , fanning no, great vid with fanning and misting tons of likes, polyfill sucks, no it does not. It is bewildering for a noob.
Thank you though for all the responses so far. Any sounding board seems a bit more real than all the back and forth.
Now I read that spore to grain is really a gamble and here I have wasted four months already…my first two stalled…
Should have jarred it?
Going to go forward and hope for the best with this tub. I won’t need a lot of yield to keep me happy.

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InvisibleWay
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom] * 2
    #28275190 - 04/12/23 11:01 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I would strongly recommend this tek for holes.

You have to understand that a lot of the stuff we do now is the best we have come up with after a few decades of cultivation. We are constantly learning and changing how we grow mushrooms. Techniques from 10 years ago may have been found to be pointless or harmful by now. Nothing is set in stone.

Also, if your first two stalled, it is because they were bacterial most likely. Mycelium doesn't just usually stop growing for no reason.

Good luck. I hope you get some :thumbup:


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OfflineDave Bowman
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Way] * 2
    #28275204 - 04/12/23 11:14 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I think a lot of what you read is the best practice at the time is based on when the posts are from and how old the posts or information is.  Information has changed a lot since I've been following this hobby and yes sometimes that means we don't do things we used to do, like fanning.

Polyfill and big holes can and will work because we used to use those methods, but the community has determined there are even better and more optimal methods after years of trial and error and comparing notes on here.

I agree with Way and you should check out that post for hole configuration.

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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Dave Bowman] * 1
    #28275554 - 04/13/23 08:06 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

You won't find any posts on the Shroomery by anyone who knows what they are doing recommending bubble wrap. If you want to retain moisture at the surface add a pseudo-casing layer. Use the search engine tek in my sig if you want relevant information.


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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: myc_ousin_vinny]
    #28291237 - 04/23/23 10:26 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Ok- tub is colonizing for 8 days. Top of substrate looks completely covered with little tufts of mycelium and there are little puddles of moisture on top. Micropore tape has been across the FAE holes since day one. I am introducing light cycles as well.
I just want to check- from what have read ( contradictory advice is prevalent) fanning and misting are unnecessary.
Is there anything to do other than wait for pins and fruits now?
From what I understand fruiting is really an end run of the mycelium in response to it “ perceiving” that substrate is colonized and will run out.

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InvisibleWay
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom]
    #28291339 - 04/23/23 11:57 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Nothing to do but sit back and wait now and try to maintain surface conditions without overdoing it.

Fanning is unnecessary. Misting may be necessary to keep proper surface conditions if your airflow and surface moisture levels weren't correct from the beginning.


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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Way]
    #28296282 - 04/26/23 02:22 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Tub is on day 12 and no sigh of pinning. Mycelium has many “ aerial mycelium”. Lots of moisture and it is hard to see into the tub. I have micropore tape over the FAE ports. I read someone panning micropore tape as it can get wet and stymie air exchange while polyfill will not.
Some assert that aerial mycelium is a precursor to pinning while others have said that it is in response to CO2 saturation. This has been a long process…I don’t want it to stall and give a leg up to any latent contaminating organisms. I have left the tub well alone other than to shine a light into it. If it’s cool, then great. If I should adjust something please chime in.

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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom]
    #28296996 - 04/26/23 10:58 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hopefulshroom said:
Lots of moisture and it is hard to see into the tub...I have left the tub well alone other than to shine a light into it. If it’s cool, then great. If I should adjust something please chime in.




How the tub walls look in terms of condensation is irrelevant. The moisture that matters is in the substrate and on it's surface particularly. Taking  pics would help. Also, have you ensured that the tub is getting constant, slight, continuous access to air? A normal lid that isn't airtight accomplishes this for example. If you have holes in your monotub, again pics will help. Is the tub also getting a little light, including ambient light if not using anything else?


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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: johnukguy]
    #28297444 - 04/27/23 10:49 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Substrate surface looks wet, but no pooling. I used a tek with 5 1/4” side holes with breathable tape at slightly above substrate level in the long side of the tub and two sub lid holes on the short sides. I unfortunately I have dehumidifier in the room, but it does generate moving air constantly. Rh is usually around 55%. 
I am providing low wattage light for 4-6 hours-it is in. An enclosed space so heat will build up. I am assuming cell division in the mycelium is triggered by light itself not necessarily photoperiod and provides direction. I did not get the side lining really flush- it fell a bit inward, but I don’t want to open the tub to fix. Aerial mycelium under the “ lip” of the side lining is way more puffy this am soI am thinking it is CO2. I had to tape the lid down to get a good seal- at least no gap beyond the manufacturers spec for the tub body and lid. Will put a fan on the tub without cracking the lid and see if that helps. Too much moisture to get a good pic with any resolution. Fully colonized for sure.

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InvisibleWay
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom]
    #28297669 - 04/27/23 01:34 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hopefulshroom said:
Substrate surface looks wet, but no pooling. I used a tek with 5 1/4” side holes with breathable tape at slightly above substrate level in the long side of the tub and two sub lid holes on the short sides. I unfortunately I have dehumidifier in the room, but it does generate moving air constantly. Rh is usually around 55%. 
I am providing low wattage light for 4-6 hours-it is in. An enclosed space so heat will build up. I am assuming cell division in the mycelium is triggered by light itself not necessarily photoperiod and provides direction. I did not get the side lining really flush- it fell a bit inward, but I don’t want to open the tub to fix. Aerial mycelium under the “ lip” of the side lining is way more puffy this am soI am thinking it is CO2. I had to tape the lid down to get a good seal- at least no gap beyond the manufacturers spec for the tub body and lid. Will put a fan on the tub without cracking the lid and see if that helps. Too much moisture to get a good pic with any resolution. Fully colonized for sure.




May be time to remove that micropore tape. I use a similar amount of holes that are the same size and I don't use micropore at all. Sounds too wet in there and the aerial mycelium would indicate lack of fresh air exchange. Why are you terrified of opening it up? You're not going to contaminate anything.


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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Way]
    #28297744 - 04/27/23 03:10 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Hi there and thank you for your advice- very much appreciated. I am terrified because some posters have said that opening things up is risky and I do not have experience to judge the validity of the posts. I am no stranger to aseptic technique and realize the risk is low, but I hesitate to risk anything as a noob.I have been trying since January to get something started and I have room for only a single tub, so all my proverbial mycelial eggs are in this one basket so to speak. Based on what you have told me I will peel that stuff off 🤞. I agree that air looks to be an issue based on the puffier appearance of the side mycelium underneath the detached overhanging liner. Do you think I can lift the lid and retape the liner to the side so there is no obstruction?

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InvisibleWay
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Hopefulshroom]
    #28297797 - 04/27/23 04:08 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hopefulshroom said:
Hi there and thank you for your advice- very much appreciated. I am terrified because some posters have said that opening things up is risky and I do not have experience to judge the validity of the posts. I am no stranger to aseptic technique and realize the risk is low, but I hesitate to risk anything as a noob.I have been trying since January to get something started and I have room for only a single tub, so all my proverbial mycelial eggs are in this one basket so to speak. Based on what you have told me I will peel that stuff off 🤞. I agree that air looks to be an issue based on the puffier appearance of the side mycelium underneath the detached overhanging liner. Do you think I can lift the lid and retape the liner to the side so there is no obstruction?




Well, once your grain is colonized and you spawn to bulk, bacteria has a hard time getting ahold of anything since its food source is already taken by the mycelium. Any contam that occurs after spawning was likely due to contaminated spawn to begin with.

Once you peel it off, if you start noticing it drying out way too fast you may want to revert. Could even take like half of it off to start if you want.

I would say you're 100% safe to retape the liner. For future reference, a lot of people just take a pair of scissors to the liner after spawning and cut it off at sub level instead of leaving it taped up. I wouldn't try cutting it now though.

And don't use a fan near the tub.


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OfflineHopefulshroom
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Re: Mono tub newbie [Re: Way]
    #28304177 - 05/02/23 09:31 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Ok- quick update. Have not taped the liner, but will do that maybe tomorrow.
I have some pins!
There is a problem though and an important question -how long does it take from a BB sized pin to a mature fruit to when the veil breaks? I have read anywhere from 2-10 days, but that value does not account for waiting too long to pick.
Fro what I understand, spore release is a bad thing and may stall further flushes?
I have to go out of town in the next week.
I am worried if the spores will be released while I am out…
Should I Pick early if they are mature looking fruits without the darkening of the veil?
Just curious about timelines…what to watch for and act accordingly if it looks like they might bust out the spores

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