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DividedQuantum
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Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably?
#28294713 - 04/25/23 12:11 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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As far as “artificial scarcity” and the notion that we can viably take care of everyone in an environmentally acceptable way goes: Well we're all still standing around waiting until someone comes up with a sustainable system, and implements it globally. Eight billion people. Any takers?
As George Carlin said, at the rate we are going, mid-century or so this planet is going to be a steaming ball of shit. Do you feel 8 billion (or more) people can live together in a sustainable way? If so, how? If there is some ecological correction, will it be made by man, or the Earth?
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#28294724 - 04/25/23 12:17 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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looks like AI is going to figure it out for us next week
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28294752 - 04/25/23 12:43 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Kinda what I was thinking.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#28296047 - 04/26/23 10:08 AM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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The UN says more than half of the projected increase in the global population up to 2050 will be concentrated in 8 countries – Democratic Republic of Congo, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines and Tanzania.
It's pretty amazing India is about to overtake China and become the world's most populous country. Within the next 6-12 months.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28296112 - 04/26/23 11:13 AM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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something insane about the concept of growth without cognizance of impacts.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28296141 - 04/26/23 11:49 AM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: something insane about the concept of growth without cognizance of impacts.
Definitely. I live in the intermountain Western U.S., and we are having a huge influx of people year after year, mostly refugees from California. Thing is, the water supply is extremely finite in these Western cities. If my state government were smart, we'd close our borders in five years or so. Because we just don't have the water.
Of course the entire Western U.S., especially the Colorado River basin, is in a 1000 year drought. We've had a very wet winter this year, but that's probably an anomaly. The West is drying up, and population influx is exponentially increasing. It's a ticking time bomb for water use.
I mean, what happens when water stops coming out of the faucet?
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thealienthatategod
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#28296192 - 04/26/23 12:47 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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do you think ai wld ever decide to make an ecological correction, but that correction was not the one that is most beneficial to humans, but rather the most beneficial to earth?
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DividedQuantum
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Who knows? I think it's perfectly possible. The thing we have to wonder about with AI is whether: A. They will like us; B. They will dislike us; C. They will be indifferent to us. If B or C are true, then perhaps they might make a decision that cuts humanity out. Just speculating out loud.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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thetruthsohelp
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#28296591 - 04/26/23 06:34 PM (8 months, 28 days ago) |
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I dont care anymore, some misanthropic fuck has probably already sold us out to some alien race that will show up and annhiliate us in the next 50 years. We probably deserve it though.
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nooneman


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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#28296643 - 04/26/23 07:09 PM (8 months, 28 days ago) |
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We're not currently advanced enough technologically even to support our current population, more would be worse. We're overpopulated relative to our current level of advancement.
It's all about the technology you have. The greeks, aztecs, and other ancient civilizations could only reach a certain size because they lacked a lot of modern technology that we take for granted, like trucks and trains for transporting goods like food. Despite having far more children, they never got anywhere near as large as we are because they weren't advanced enough. It's the same with us.
We can't produce enough food, housing, clothes, you name it, to drive the price down. Look at the cost of housing. If we had the technology to produce more housing faster and cheaper, we could drive that down, but we don't. As it is, supply is low, demand is high, so the price is outrageous. If we could build a house in a day for a dollar, we wouldn't have that problem. The difference is one of technology. If demand keeps going up while supply can't keep up, sooner or later you'll have the same problem with food.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: nooneman]
#28296660 - 04/26/23 07:20 PM (8 months, 28 days ago) |
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Really good points.
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#28296995 - 04/26/23 10:57 PM (8 months, 28 days ago) |
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Most of industries create goods ex nihilo.
The miracle of production.
There will be no lack.. and we can fulfill all lacks and gaps in the economy of the utility of the individual person.
Mind over matter solves supply and demand..
As for space?
Build more high rising towers and condos..
In the future we will have megacities in the sky!
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laughingdog
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#28297129 - 04/27/23 02:43 AM (8 months, 28 days ago) |
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: laughingdog]
#28297789 - 04/27/23 04:03 PM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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Indeed. These tribes are wise to remain independent, but very sadly, climate change is affecting their rains and so they are not untouched. So they're still fucked.
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laughingdog
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#28298205 - 04/27/23 10:33 PM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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...and nano plastic in the air, rain forest cutting/destruction, and species extinction, so yes disaster is in the works, long before population density is relevant, and we're all still fucked.
Meanwhile I would not want to live in one of the mega cities though.

https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/bigcities.htm
Edited by laughingdog (04/27/23 10:34 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: laughingdog]
#28298527 - 04/28/23 07:32 AM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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Another big one is resource availability. Uranium, oil, gas, even the sand, various metals and elements that go into green energy are non renewable resources. 50 years, 100 years, a couple hundred years. Maybe longer but not forever. How long will it last? And what then?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: Rahz]
#28298578 - 04/28/23 08:18 AM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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Noho Hank is bootlegging sand as we speak!
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Rahz
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28298672 - 04/28/23 09:18 AM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: Rahz]
#28298841 - 04/28/23 12:06 PM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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ethiopia somalia buy land for mines, or not?
ai powered recycling could provide all required elements indefinitely.
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28298892 - 04/28/23 12:45 PM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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There will be technology advances in exploration and extraction but the trend is for ROI to go down. Metals are oxidized or lost to the environment over time. Indefinitely is a long time, but how long?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: Rahz]
#28298906 - 04/28/23 12:58 PM (8 months, 27 days ago) |
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oxidation is reversible but basically, you agree that 8 billion + is too much
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Rahz
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28299003 - 04/28/23 02:37 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Oxidation is reversible but it takes more energy and you have to have the material to begin with. 8 billion is not too much at the moment, though I understand proponents of green energy have warmed up to large scale mining operations to transition away from fossil fuels. There's always a price to pay.
That's the way it goes, drawing conclusions about what's reasonable, useful, safe, based on profit and necessity... most reasonable, most useful, safest. Unless the dream is for 8 billion to live sustainably for basically ever there are hard realities to face eventually. This would also be true of any number using non renewable resources faster than they're generated. People want to mine the Moon and asteroid belt, hoping that there will be energy availability from those operations to sustain them.
Humanity uses about 6.5 cubic miles of sand for construction each year. Over 800 million cubic feet of steel. The question isn't whether it's sustainable (forever) but for how long which will be finite.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: Rahz]
#28299062 - 04/28/23 03:49 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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maybe we can grind up old computers to make sand
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Rahz
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28299197 - 04/28/23 06:19 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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I've always thought of garbage dumps as storage facilities.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: Rahz]
#28299291 - 04/28/23 07:59 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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they are mines, and ai can help with making them profitable.
Quote:
My Question to Chat Gpt how can we use AI to make garbage dumps profitable while mining the refuse using robots
There are several ways that AI can be used to make garbage dumps profitable while mining the refuse using robots. Here are a few possible approaches: 1. Smart Sorting: AI algorithms can be used to sort the waste into different categories such as recyclable materials, organic waste, and non-recyclable waste. This can be done using sensors and cameras mounted on the robots that scan and identify the waste as it moves along the conveyor belts. Once the waste is sorted, it can be processed accordingly and sold to the relevant industries, thereby generating revenue. 2. Predictive Maintenance: AI can be used to predict when the robots and other equipment will require maintenance, thereby reducing downtime and increasing the overall efficiency of the system. Predictive maintenance can also help in reducing the cost of repairs and replacements. 3. Energy Recovery: AI algorithms can help identify the waste that can be converted into energy, such as biodegradable materials, which can be processed to produce biogas, biofuels or other forms of energy. This can be done using anaerobic digesters that can be run by robots, which can improve the efficiency of the energy production process. 4. Automated Pricing: AI algorithms can be used to analyze the market demand for the different waste products and set the pricing accordingly. This can be done by analyzing the supply and demand trends of the raw materials used in various industries and adjusting the pricing accordingly. This can help maximize the revenue generated from the waste products. 5. Smart Routing: AI algorithms can be used to optimize the routes taken by the robots within the garbage dump to ensure maximum efficiency. The algorithms can take into account factors such as the location of the waste, the capacity of the robots, and the processing capabilities of the equipment, among others, to optimize the routes taken by the robots. This can help reduce the time and cost of mining the refuse and increase the profitability of the operation. In conclusion, AI can play a significant role in making garbage dumps profitable while mining the refuse using robots. By implementing the above approaches, it can help optimize the process, reduce costs, increase efficiency, and generate revenue from the waste products.
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Edited by redgreenvines (04/28/23 08:07 PM)
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28299498 - 04/29/23 01:28 AM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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If technology has a chance to save us.. should we take the risk and use non renewable resources that are finite to achieve this?
Take a step forward or take a step back..
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redgreenvines
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Re: Do you think 8 billion+ can live sustainably? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#28299578 - 04/29/23 05:01 AM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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in a measured way, yes.
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