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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) * 1
    #28292164 - 04/23/23 08:58 PM (9 months, 1 hour ago)

So I've had alot of different feelings and opinions on this topic overtime and I hear alot of two extremes "support Trans people no matter what their opinion is and all kids should be able to choose their gender" and on the other extreme "Trans people are demons, pedophiles, less then human, corrupting and grooming kids to be lgbtq" and more and more hateful and frankly dangerous rhetoric

But I'd like to belive most people are more rational and compassionate then this. I believe in a much more nuisanced situation where we can disagree on certain specific lgbtq issues and agree on others.

The problem is whenever I say I disagree with a certain lgbtq issue i get called a transphobe and the conversation ends instead of having a meaningful conversation about the pros and cons of something like young kids on hormones and transitioning.

I think that as a kid/young teen you are very maliable and don't understand your emotions very well,social pressure is first and foremost. Wanting to feel excepted excepted, experiencing depression for the first time, wanting to make radical changes like dying your hair, getting a piercing etc etc

Is it then fair to say there's 2 types of gay/Trans kids the ones born that way or the ones trying to find some excptance or some other deep seeded problem or societal pressure they had?

The majority of studies Ive seen report a pretty high rate of regret from trans kids that transitioned at 14 or so and were asked again at 18 and that makes sense to me that maybe you didnt really know what you wanted and was a phase that became permanent.

I saw a pride documentary about a spefic high-school in Europe that has 80% of their students identifying as LGBTQ. Now it's pretty clear that 80% of the world's population is not LGBTQ I think even people in that community could agree to that. To me that shows in that school that there's proportionally more lgbtq  students then there are lgbtq people in the world.

So I think it poses real questions like: before the age of 18 do you think there is the added elements of wanting to feel accepted, wanting to make a radical change, being legitimately confused about sexuality, not knowing what you want yet due to lack of life experience etc.


I'm saying all of this to get to a point that I support kids who believe they're trans maybe dont believe in hormone treatments but i believe they should be treated like every other child and respected by their peers and not made fun of. I do think that they should hold off on deciding sexuality and orientation until they live more but thats okay. I support adult trans people across the board except maybe in combat sports but other then that I'll fight tooth and nail to make sure you can be who you want to be, love who you want to love, I will call you what you want to be called all of that.

But as soon as I say my opinions on the few lgbtq issues I have a differing opinions on then the lgbtq  community lumps me into the people calling them demons, lobbying for trans parents to have their kids taken away and truly despicable things and that hurts the civil discourse and the lgbtq cause in my mind.

People somewhat like me that just believed that kids should grow up first before altering themselves chemically to make sure it's what they truly are and need and people that don't believe in specifically male to female trans women competing against women in combat sports are increasingly sharing those opinions to trans people they call them names and call them horrible human beings and alot of them say screw you now I'm going to hate all lgbtq people.

What are your views on this?

What lgbtq issues can you disagree with without bring homophobic or transphobic ?

If you're lbtq I'd particularly like to know if you think I have reasonable points that are views you may not share but can respect? or am I just an evil prick to you?


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 2
    #28292255 - 04/23/23 11:23 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

1) trans people

everyone has a right to live their lives that way, and should have the right to do so without being ridiculed or persecuted for being how they feel and are. this goes to the 1st amendments freedom of expression.

2) trans people in bathrooms

i think trans people should be able to pee and poop. i dont think gender specific bathrooms makes any sense at all. have stalls with full doors that close, have sinks we all use. the issue seems to be that half the goober rednecks dont want a dick coming out of a skirt to pee, and the other half of the goober rednecks dont want someone who looks like a woman in the mens restroom. but trans people make up less than 1 percent of the population so im not sure why this is a big deal one way or the other. bottom line is it really shouldnt make a difference which bathroom they use.

3) trans people in sports.

it does seem that there is some level of people who all their lives have been failed male athletes, better than most people but not ranking against other men, who switch sides just to dominate against women, and if thats acceptable somehow i dont know why we should bother having womens events at all. there are somethings like chess, where it wouldnt really matter what gender you are but if extra height, muscle mass, arm length, are involved in winning, i think either that it should fall to the sex you were born with or we should have a trans category of that sport.

4) drag shows for children

it really depends on the content. ronald reagan hosted a drag show for children and no one thought it was wrong, it was just good fun, when uncle milty did it, children watched and it was just good fun. when flip wilson did it, it was just good fun. now suddenly its depraved and sexual. thats fucking stupid

in conclusion, theres nothing wrong with letting people be who they are. if you were born female and you identify as a man and you have a child you shouldnt have to be refereed to as the mother if you dont want to be. it doesnt effect the guy up the street who thinks it matters so much.

the US is about being able to persue happiness and for some people that means being very different than you, and thats when we have to be patriots and fight for peoples right to be different. and we have to strive to find fairness and equality for everyone regardless of whatever issues they may be facing.

and if you disagree. then atleast do so compassionately because if someone feels like they are trapped in the wrong body, then one way or another they are going through a really difficult time in their life, and just like anyone else with a medical or psychological problem (and this could be either) we should treat them with compassion and respect, and try to make allowances where we can.

finally, these people make up a TINY portion of the population so they shouldnt take up 90+ percent of the talking points of a news program or a talk show or a politicians speach.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28292340 - 04/24/23 01:23 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Totally agreed.

A tough issue though is kids under 18 getting hormone therapy and transitioning. I'm split if that person ends up being trans 20 years later and says I wish I was able to transition at 16 I feel a little bad. If they transition at 14-16 and by 18-20 they have regrets I feel like that's irreversible. At least making the decision at 18 to 20 yeah you had to go through some uncomfortable shitty years but now you're absolutely sure.

What do you think?


--------------------
R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
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split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
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OfflineAbombs
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28292404 - 04/24/23 04:05 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

I view the trans issue much like being gay.
20 years ago the general consensus was that homosexuality was immoral and wrong disgusting had no place in society.

Now people understand it really isn't the person's choice which gender they are attracted to.

How is that any different than someone feeling like they are not the gender that they were born.

Having said that. I don't agree with how society is handling it.

Drag show story time  for kids is wrong. They are kids let them be innocent.

Young people are being manipulated by poeple who don't know what's best.

They are being told they will feel right if they medically alter themselves with hormones or surgeries. But being sold a fantasy of expectations. While the vast majority of people who do this are not fulfilled.


Parents often don't accept their kids when they do come out of the closet. And if they can't talk to their parents they will talk to the internet. And that place is filled with creeps.

Surgury is for life. Hormone therapy has to be continued for life and has many many health risks and psychological risks associated.

Alot of these issues could be better understood and supported if people lived a healthy lifestyle with good communication and healthy support networks.

But most of the population is eating themselves into obesity and devouring television and social media.

My daughter is trans. I am trying to teach about healthy lifestyle choices. How having a healthy mind and body is more important than what gender you appear to be.

She could have just as easily started talking to someone on the internet telling her she needs medical intervention to be happy.

I'm grateful she feels like she can talk to me. Her mother isn't very supportive about it.
And I'm not sure the rest of the family will be either.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28292513 - 04/24/23 06:59 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

i hate to cop out of that one, but you are right its tough

i think that some people know things when they are young. but i think unknowns are hard to deal with. when i was 8 i wanted a tatoo so bad. now i dont really like them, save for a select few on anyone. and had some bad parents let me have a tatoo at 8... i could have had it removed which cant be done with alot of these surgeries.

for the MOST part, in non-extreme cases i think we can probably just tell them to ride it out, at least to 15...but probably to 18. and then in extreme cases who knows. im not sure its the governments place to regulate, maybe the FDA but not congress

i also dont feel like wanting a tatoo is the same as feeling like you are in the wrong body. not at all, its really just the closest i can come to understanding. i also dont know what these laws would do to people who are born intersex´d clinefelders and hermaphrodites and the like, theres two or three more variations these people are naturally sort of trans, and sometimes doctors and parents make decisions about their genitals at birth... and sometimes even when they dont developent and growth means something medically has to be done. i dont think we should make any laws that restrict a doctor from being able to do what NEEDS to be done, situationally.

its a very tough issue. my thoughts are ALSO that it may be a growing issue but its still a VERY small number of people for whom this is even an issue which we need to solve or regulate. such that we probably DONT need laws that blanket everyone. guidelines and ethics is probably enough


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28292530 - 04/24/23 07:31 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

People seem to think that trans kids get surgery.

They do not.

People seem to think that trans surgery is easy to get.

It is not.

People seem to think that there isn't years of counseling factored in that decision.

There is.

Also, anyone that goes to a drag story hour and gets sexually aroused, that's entirely on you and your weird fetishes. It's not sexy. If you think a man wearing a dress is inherently sexy, well, you might have a calling as a Catholic priest.

Oh, and anyone that is simultaneously concerned about children doing permanent damage to their bodies and against puberty blockers (which prevent irreversible changes to the body) is a hypocrite. That's really how you can tell that anti trans people have no legitimate concerns besides "I think those people are icky and should therefore be killed".


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Abombs]
    #28292567 - 04/24/23 07:54 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

y
Quote:

Abombs said:
Drag show story time  for kids is wrong. They are kids let them be innocent.




its just a guy in a dress...reagan hosted a drag show for kids...with dancing, and such, not reading kids books... i think the story hour is ok. if the drag queen reads penthouse forum i have a dif position.

Quote:

Abombs said:
Young people are being manipulated by poeple who don't know what's best.





everywhere all the time on all kinds of issue... religion especially i imagine you mean something to do with trans people but shrug....where is this happening. hell you are an adult and im pretty sure you got manipulated to feel like kids are being manipulated into being trans. which they are not.


Quote:

Abombs said:
They are being told they will feel right if they medically alter themselves with hormones or surgeries. But being sold a fantasy of expectations. While the vast majority of people who do this are not fulfilled.




when and where did this happen? did it ever once happen? or did you just believe some closet case in a suit?

Quote:

Abombs said:
Parents often don't accept their kids when they do come out of the closet. And if they can't talk to their parents they will talk to the internet. And that place is filled with creeps.




ok...

Quote:

Abombs said:
Surgury is for life. Hormone therapy has to be continued for life and has many many health risks and psychological risks associated.




i agree, it should be a case by case decision made with all the right people and not involve politicians making blanket laws


Quote:

Abombs said:
Alot of these issues could be better understood and supported if people lived a healthy lifestyle with good communication and healthy support networks.




hmm...who are these people living unhealthy lives just like...general parents and kids?


Quote:

Abombs said:
My daughter is trans. I am trying to teach about healthy lifestyle choices. How having a healthy mind and body is more important than what gender you appear to be.

She could have just as easily started talking to someone on the internet telling her she needs medical intervention to be happy.

I'm grateful she feels like she can talk to me. Her mother isn't very supportive about it.
And I'm not sure the rest of the family will be either.




well then her mother and the rest of the family are willing to eat their own for a political issue and thats fucking nuts


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28292593 - 04/24/23 08:28 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

If you listen when people express their opinions you can usually tell if its a lack of education on the topic or not.
Most are uneducated on it and refuse to learn.


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 5
    #28292671 - 04/24/23 09:42 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Here’s the thing: there are no “two extremes.”

On one side you have LGBTQ people asking for their right to exist.

On the other you have people discriminating against them.

We have to pretend this is some contentious, rational debate simply because certain people think the idea of being trans is weird. That’s it.


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OfflineAbombs
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28292913 - 04/24/23 12:34 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Your right I don't fully understand the issues at play.

It may be a small percentage of people who have medical intervention but their is a huge number of young people struggling with gender, Sexuality, preferences, identity.

Parents and family not accepting someone who identifies as lgbtq(something something something) happens alot from ignoring the issue to punishment. It's quite common.

The people living unhealthy lives is the average person. I don't remember the point I was trying to make.

I don't know what requirements have to be satisfied to have medical intervention but there are people who  are starting to speak out about their regrets.

No I don't have a solution. But I am not willing to accept that our gov't or any institution or society in general has the right answer.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Abombs]
    #28293021 - 04/24/23 01:49 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

The more I am educated on it the more I am in support.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28293039 - 04/24/23 01:58 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
If you're lbtq I'd particularly like to know if you think I have reasonable points that are views you may not share but can respect? or am I just an evil prick to you?




Online discourse trends toward the overly hostile - but you're probably finding yourself lumped in with transgender hate because some of those 'reasonable viewpoints' you've shared are demonstrably incorrect. It's suggests that, even if you believe you have no hate for LGBTQ folk, you're still uncritically listening to those who do and spreading toxic views further, rather than honestly trying to understand the issue.

For example, let's consider this seemingly reasonable view. Can you refer me to these studies you mention?

"The majority of studies Ive seen report a pretty high rate of regret from trans kids that transitioned at 14 or so and were asked again at 18 and that makes sense to me that maybe you didnt really know what you wanted and was a phase that became permanent."


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28293601 - 04/24/23 07:22 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
If you're lbtq I'd particularly like to know if you think I have reasonable points that are views you may not share but can respect? or am I just an evil prick to you?




Online discourse trends toward the overly hostile - but you're probably finding yourself lumped in with transgender hate because some of those 'reasonable viewpoints' you've shared are demonstrably incorrect. It's suggests that, even if you believe you have no hate for LGBTQ folk, you're still uncritically listening to those who do and spreading toxic views further, rather than honestly trying to understand the issue.

For example, let's consider this seemingly reasonable view. Can you refer me to these studies you mention?

"The majority of studies Ive seen report a pretty high rate of regret from trans kids that transitioned at 14 or so and were asked again at 18 and that makes sense to me that maybe you didnt really know what you wanted and was a phase that became permanent."



That's fair enough. It's hard to tell from people like me that are willing to change their viewpoints based on a debate and research and others who dont care if the study they looked at was never corroborated or true they will still use that study to justify their viewpoint. And I'm looking for the studies I looked at years ago and they aren't to be found. So maybe I was hoodwinked on the facts sure.

However in fact I can't find any studies  specifically on kids that transitioned at a young age and whether they regretted it or not after 18. Just studies on trans adults that regret it somewhere in the range of 2-8%  and a few stories here and there from right wing channels of detransitioned adults.

So I suppose if you take what I heard in that crap study out of the equation I still feel like when you're young it's a confusing time, you may want to feel more accepted, part of a community, be genuinely confused about sexuality even if you aren't lgbtq and I still feel like more kids are identifying as lgbtq then there are lgbtq kids.

Let me ask you this though. This one I can't find because it was years ago but I did see a pride documentary about a school I believe in Europe and the whole point of the documentary is that 80% of that high-schools student body identified as LGBTQ.

They attributed it to being an accepting school but after I watched that I thought it was an interesting case study. 80% of that school identified as lgbtq. I know that not 80% of the world's population is lgbtq so in this particular school how did 80% wind up identifying this way?

My conclusion is that some truly were lgbtq and that some were trying to feel accepted since at that particular school being lgbtq meant you'd be accepted and part of a larger group. So I think there are societal factors that can lead to a kid claiming to be lgbtq and then find out it wasn't really them.


--------------------
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Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28293634 - 04/24/23 07:37 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
specifically on kids that transitioned at a young age




How old do you think the youngest permanently transitioned patient was at the time? This is also an interesting case study in media literacy.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I suppose if you take what I heard in that crap study out of the equation I still feel like when you're young it's a confusing time, you may want to feel more accepted, part of a community, be genuinely confused about sexuality even if you aren't lgbtq and I still feel like more kids are identifying as lgbtq then there are lgbtq kids.




Have you ever faked a different sexuality just to fit in? Cause when I think about stuff I did as a kid to fit in, it was mostly just begging my mom for specific toys. I know some people do some dumb stuff just to fit in, but for some reason I don't believe someone would suck dick just to have a friend.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
They attributed it to being an accepting school but after I watched that I thought it was an interesting case study. 80% of that school identified as lgbtq. I know that not 80% of the world's population is lgbtq so in this particular school how did 80% wind up identifying this way?




So, being that you know of this school in particular as being very accepting, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, other people also know of this school in particular for similar reasons, and have self-selected?

For example, I feel like you'd also find a similarly inexplicable increase in LGBTQ identifying people at a gay bar.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28293841 - 04/24/23 09:00 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

So I'm not going to opine on how many kids have permanently transitioned as far as surgery or mastectomy goes its probably almost non existent.

Your next two comments is the meat of what I really wanted to discuss.

When I was a kid faking being gay wouldn't have made alot of sense there's no where near the understanding and community of acceptance that there is now. Yes I tried to fit in by asking my parents for toys but what I'm talking about is for example, whenever a new fad came out I very much pretended to be that person. If it was emo, I'd wear all black have long straight hair and I even felt like I was actually emo when I wasn't. I'd sit there and pretended and started to believe I hated life, it was all pointless etc. You're saying I don't believe people would suck dick to pretend to be gay I agree. As an adult that makes total sense. As a kid I think in today's environment you can claim to be gay and be nowhere near having to "prove it". You can even say you've sucked a dick and it'd be like a straight kid lying about eating out some chick or getting a bj or something its really easy to fake that. So I do think that some kids who identify as lgbtq might not be and just get caught up in trying to fit in,feel accepted, feel like youre part of a group, trying to make a radical change to help depression stemming from something else etc.


As far as your comments on the specific school, if it were a private school that was a school that billed itself as lgbtq friendly and an alternative to public schools I'd completely understand.  Like you said I wouldn't be surprised to see gay people in a gay bar but this school was in the public school system. Also most of the kids didn't come out until a group of well liked students started coming out. Again I think those students were probably actually lgbtq  but the extra 40% that came out after the cool kids did yeah I think there could be a societal factor to that.


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineAbombs
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28294228 - 04/25/23 05:35 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

For sure kids will identify as something else to fit in. Especially if they struggled to fit in other places.

You have a hard time believing someone will suck dick to get a friend. You can't be serious.?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Abombs]
    #28294341 - 04/25/23 07:49 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I'm not going to opine on how many kids have permanently transitioned as far as surgery or mastectomy goes its probably almost non existent.

Your next two comments is the meat of what I really wanted to discuss.

When I was a kid faking being gay wouldn't have made alot of sense there's no where near the understanding and community of acceptance that there is now. Yes I tried to fit in by asking my parents for toys but what I'm talking about is for example, whenever a new fad came out I very much pretended to be that person. If it was emo, I'd wear all black have long straight hair and I even felt like I was actually emo when I wasn't. I'd sit there and pretended and started to believe I hated life, it was all pointless etc. You're saying I don't believe people would suck dick to pretend to be gay I agree. As an adult that makes total sense. As a kid I think in today's environment you can claim to be gay and be nowhere near having to "prove it". You can even say you've sucked a dick and it'd be like a straight kid lying about eating out some chick or getting a bj or something its really easy to fake that. So I do think that some kids who identify as lgbtq might not be and just get caught up in trying to fit in,feel accepted, feel like youre part of a group, trying to make a radical change to help depression stemming from something else etc.


As far as your comments on the specific school, if it were a private school that was a school that billed itself as lgbtq friendly and an alternative to public schools I'd completely understand.  Like you said I wouldn't be surprised to see gay people in a gay bar but this school was in the public school system. Also most of the kids didn't come out until a group of well liked students started coming out. Again I think those students were probably actually lgbtq  but the extra 40% that came out after the cool kids did yeah I think there could be a societal factor to that.




That's really unfortunate that you chose not to answer quite possibly the most important question. It was not a question of opinion, it was a question of media literacy. Can you find a piece of information on a topic that is heavily coated in misinformation? There is a correct answer. But you actually need to do more than skim headlines to find the correct answer.

Quote:

Abombs said:
For sure kids will identify as something else to fit in. Especially if they struggled to fit in other places.

You have a hard time believing someone will suck dick to get a friend. You can't be serious.?




Perhaps I have underestimated people's willingness to suck dick just to be noticed. I guess it's literally never crossed my mind.

I guess that tracks with the research showing that something like 1/5 to 1/6 straight, heterosexual identifying men routinely have sex with other men.


Edited by Kryptos (04/25/23 08:12 AM)


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28294529 - 04/25/23 09:55 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

I will always be baffled at why other people are so interested in other peoples sex lives.
Men have sex with men, women have sex with men, women have sex with women, men have sex with women.
As long as neither are having sex with kids or animals- I don't care. I don't care it is none of my business and I am happy that you are happy.
Trans has NOTHING to do with sex.
I honestly am glad I did not have the struggle of feeling I was born in a body that doesn't represent who I am.
It feels that it would be torture on your soul. And the people I have spoken to about it.. it is torture. And liberating when they make a choice to be who they authentically feel they are.
Not
who other people tell them to be.
It takes a lot LOT LOT of courage. It is very admirable.
Most people don't have the sack to be who they authentically are.
I turn 50 in a few weeks and I struggle being who I authentically am. If I really think about it and question myself... am I being my authentic self?
What a beautiful thing to watch and support- when you see someone being their authentic self.
I will always support that.


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OfflineNotSheekle
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: loladoreen]
    #28294646 - 04/25/23 11:26 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

No such thing as trans people, transphobia or even homophobia... not in the way it is described. These words are co-opted like Racist, Fascist or Nazi. These people fall into multiple categories of mental illness, identity disorders, their demands are compulsions and it is not our responsibility to conform with them.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28294659 - 04/25/23 11:38 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Heavy emphasis on RESPECTFUL
if you are not going to be respectful and allow us to have a conversation.
Please do not join the conversation
There are other threads you can go to debate or express yourself.
This is not it


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28294686 - 04/25/23 11:55 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
That's fair enough. It's hard to tell from people like me that are willing to change their viewpoints based on a debate and research and others who dont care if the study they looked at was never corroborated or true they will still use that study to justify their viewpoint. And I'm looking for the studies I looked at years ago and they aren't to be found. So maybe I was hoodwinked on the facts sure.

However in fact I can't find any studies  specifically on kids that transitioned at a young age and whether they regretted it or not after 18. Just studies on trans adults that regret it somewhere in the range of 2-8%  and a few stories here and there from right wing channels of detransitioned adults.




Those studies you found are much more representative of reality. Very few people are receiving surgery before 18, so it's hard to study a nearly-non existence population. There are a few though; here's one that considers the effect receiving puberty blockers has on lifetime rates of suicidal ideation. The quick takeaway? ~40% of transgender people will attempt suicide; access to puberty blockers is associated with lower lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment; only 2.5% of willing transgender adolescents received puberty blockers.

The reality is that gender affirming care is still incredibly difficult to access despite its demonstrated benefits, and that permanent transition is not made available until the very end of a long medical process. Considering all this, is it easier to understand why your opinion might have been lumped in with trans hate? Especially if one is aware of the information above, and has lost friends and family to that awful suicide statistic.

A good example for why we should never just be complacent in our beliefs. We should challenge them before we challenge others with them.




Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I suppose if you take what I heard in that crap study out of the equation I still feel like when you're young it's a confusing time, you may want to feel more accepted, part of a community, be genuinely confused about sexuality even if you aren't lgbtq and I still feel like more kids are identifying as lgbtq then there are lgbtq kids.

Let me ask you this though. This one I can't find because it was years ago but I did see a pride documentary about a school I believe in Europe and the whole point of the documentary is that 80% of that high-schools student body identified as LGBTQ.

They attributed it to being an accepting school but after I watched that I thought it was an interesting case study. 80% of that school identified as lgbtq. I know that not 80% of the world's population is lgbtq so in this particular school how did 80% wind up identifying this way?

My conclusion is that some truly were lgbtq and that some were trying to feel accepted since at that particular school being lgbtq meant you'd be accepted and part of a larger group. So I think there are societal factors that can lead to a kid claiming to be lgbtq and then find out it wasn't really them.




I think it's important to remember that LGBTQ contains a lot more than just transgender. I feel a huge junk of the world is probably bisexual to some extent, to be honest - but I can also understand that children will just go along with whatever seems popular. What's the problem with that? Kids go through lots of phases as they grow up - it's a process fueled by both social acceptance and self-discovery. Why shouldn't we foster an environment of acceptance?


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OfflineNotSheekle
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28294717 - 04/25/23 12:13 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

The problem is that children are being given life altering medications and surgeries to reaffirm these trends into their permanent reality. Should kids be allowed to get face tattoos because they make rap on SoundCloud? What about splitting their tongue if they identify as snake-kin? Should they be allowed to marry and conceive children because they believe they’re mature enough?  Should they be allowed to drive, drink, smoke, own firearms and go to war all before 16?

Obviously we intervene for a reason...


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: NotSheekle] * 2
    #28294757 - 04/25/23 12:46 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Children can already take life changing medication and have life changing surgeries. They can already get married, have kids (against their own will in some cases), get tattoos, and drive before the age of 16.


When will the reactionaries and weirdos stop using children as a smokescreen for their preoccupation with the sex lives of strangers?

Maybe I’m the only person who remembers this exact same rhetoric being deployed against the recognition of gay people in general, in the early oughts. You’d have the typical psychos saying shit like “it’s against God, they’re going to hell for sinning,” but you’d also have the ‘reasonable moderate’ saying “look I don’t care what people do behind closed doors but just don’t shove it down my throat, it shouldn’t be affecting children.”

It’s bullshit. None of these people care about children. They’re typically advocating for a political movement that’s forcing children to give birth to their rapist’s baby. Stop taking these people seriously.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: NotSheekle] * 2
    #28294833 - 04/25/23 01:56 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

NotSheekle said:
The problem is that children are being given life altering medications and surgeries to reaffirm these trends into their permanent reality. Should kids be allowed to get face tattoos because they make rap on SoundCloud? What about splitting their tongue if they identify as snake-kin? Should they be allowed to marry and conceive children because they believe they’re mature enough?  Should they be allowed to drive, drink, smoke, own firearms and go to war all before 16?

Obviously we intervene for a reason...




Children are not being given life altering medications or surgeries.

Like I challenged the other guy, go find the age of the youngest permanent transition.

And children are already allowed to do everything that you mention. A 12 year old can get a face tattoo with parental permission, and as a recent Missouri legislator just proudly declared, he knows many people who got married as 12 year olds, had babies, and are even married to this day.

Oh, and we're currently loosening child labor laws, so...yeah. 14 year olds can now work overnight shifts at meatpacking plants in Arkansas, and unlike adults, they don't qualify for workman's comp if they get injured.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28294903 - 04/25/23 02:50 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

Oh, and anyone that is simultaneously concerned about children doing permanent damage to their bodies and against puberty blockers (which prevent irreversible changes to the body) is a hypocrite. That's really how you can tell that anti trans people have no legitimate concerns besides "I think those people are icky and should therefore be killed".




Children cant stay at home alone because not mature enough. Cant get tattoos, drink alcohol, smoke, drive a car, vote, consent to sex, aren't tried as adults because its universally accepted that their brains aren't developed enough to fully comprehend and make properly informed decisions. But you're a bigot if you think a child's too young to change their gender


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28294916 - 04/25/23 03:02 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
That's fair enough. It's hard to tell from people like me that are willing to change their viewpoints based on a debate and research and others who dont care if the study they looked at was never corroborated or true they will still use that study to justify their viewpoint. And I'm looking for the studies I looked at years ago and they aren't to be found. So maybe I was hoodwinked on the facts sure.

However in fact I can't find any studies  specifically on kids that transitioned at a young age and whether they regretted it or not after 18. Just studies on trans adults that regret it somewhere in the range of 2-8%  and a few stories here and there from right wing channels of detransitioned adults.




Those studies you found are much more representative of reality. Very few people are receiving surgery before 18, so it's hard to study a nearly-non existence population. There are a few though; here's one that considers the effect receiving puberty blockers has on lifetime rates of suicidal ideation. The quick takeaway? ~40% of transgender people will attempt suicide; access to puberty blockers is associated with lower lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment; only 2.5% of willing transgender adolescents received puberty blockers.

The reality is that gender affirming care is still incredibly difficult to access despite its demonstrated benefits, and that permanent transition is not made available until the very end of a long medical process. Considering all this, is it easier to understand why your opinion might have been lumped in with trans hate? Especially if one is aware of the information above, and has lost friends and family to that awful suicide statistic.

A good example for why we should never just be complacent in our beliefs. We should challenge them before we challenge others with them.



Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I suppose if you take what I heard in that crap study out of the equation I still feel like when you're young it's a confusing time, you may want to feel more accepted, part of a community, be genuinely confused about sexuality even if you aren't lgbtq and I still feel like more kids are identifying as lgbtq then there are lgbtq kids.

Let me ask you this though. This one I can't find because it was years ago but I did see a pride documentary about a school I believe in Europe and the whole point of the documentary is that 80% of that high-schools student body identified as LGBTQ.

They attributed it to being an accepting school but after I watched that I thought it was an interesting case study. 80% of that school identified as lgbtq. I know that not 80% of the world's population is lgbtq so in this particular school how did 80% wind up identifying this way?

My conclusion is that some truly were lgbtq and that some were trying to feel accepted since at that particular school being lgbtq meant you'd be accepted and part of a larger group. So I think there are societal factors that can lead to a kid claiming to be lgbtq and then find out it wasn't really them.




I think it's important to remember that LGBTQ contains a lot more than just transgender. I feel a huge junk of the world is probably bisexual to some extent, to be honest - but I can also understand that children will just go along with whatever seems popular. What's the problem with that? Kids go through lots of phases as they grow up - it's a process fueled by both social acceptance and self-discovery. Why shouldn't we foster an environment of acceptance?




This is the kind of response I was looking for. You got someone saying I'm just not taking the time or I'm not media literate, that's not it I took about an hour of an incredibly busy day yesterday to try and find the statistics on trans kids and there's not much info unless you already know exactly what to look for because you study it alot. But I think Shiva is right there isn't much data because there are not alot of trans kids that have had  gender reasignment surgeries. Even with hormone blockers there's not alot of data presumably because of child's rights visa vi studies.

You are right that gender affirming care isn't very prevalent even if it is a good thing. Which personally I'd have to read more about that but for the purposes of this conversation I can see that being true.

I do understand why I get lumped into trans hate sometimes but I deeply feel like if people didn't jump to that conclusion when talking to someone who is saying " I support being whoever you truly are but I disagree on a few things and let's talk about it" then there could be an actual discussion like we are having now where you're not making me feel like I'm evil and I'm trying to be as respectful as I can toward a sensitive subject I have no experience in.

However I think where that comes from is most people in my shoes "asking questions" don't really have an open mind and it must get frustrating to a person in that community to explain their position succinctly just to have someone ignore everything they said. But I do wish that wasn't the case.



It is indeed important to realize that lgbtq includes at least 5 acronyms there. Bi is a big one covers alot of people that's true but i dont believe its 80% of the world like that public school i saw was but that was an isolated case.

I'm glad you can at least confirm that I'm not just crazy or bigoted thinking that kids kids often go with whatever is popular. That is a good question though what's wrong with that, what's wrong with acceptance? I think the answer for the most part is there isn't anything particularly wrong with it being tied into what's popular.

Im trying to think what my problem is with it and Maybe I just feel like it's easier to back out socially of something like being emo then 2 years later you're a hippy rather then telling everyone your gay for example and then 2 Years later you have to explain it was just a phase and your straight.

When I was a kid that would've A) been offensive to truly gay people that were born that way and B) ruined your potential relationships with girls that have thought you were gay for years. Maybe I feel like instead of reversing course in that situation that some kids would just continue to pretend they're gay until they're older and it makes more sense to their peers.

But I am realizing this is based on my experiences in a truly different time. Maybe it wouldn't ruin your romantic life to say your gay and then at some point say you're straight again. Maybe it wouldnt be offensive to gay people that were born that way. Maybe it is easier then I think for other kids to accept you being gay and then realizing you aren't. Hmmm certainly something to chew on


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28295018 - 04/25/23 04:28 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

The answer is 16, and it happened in Germany. The youngest permanent sex transition took place at the age of 16. And it wasn't a sweet 16 present either. If you wanna know exactly how many hoops she had to jump through... she's harder than most marines. It's a pretty interesting story.

The reason that I wanted you to do this exercise is to see the amount of BS you need to sift through to answer that question.

In this thread, we have had both Notsheekle and MagicMush come in here, see someone saying "this doesn't happen to kids, and is not as easy as you think it is" and respond with "kids are being transitioned before they're old enough to have sex!" Ignoring that child marriage (a) exists for pre-teens and (b) usually turns statch rape into marital bliss.

The entire point is that finding an answer for yourself allows you to further distinguish between facts and knee-jerk reactions, like the ones you see in this thread. This is good practice for the future.

Unfortunately, you are correct. Even innocent questions can get you painted with the bigot brush. For example, I am 100% convinced that pollution affects the sexual identification of children, and that a not insignificant amount of the increase in LGBT identifying youth can directly be linked to fossil fuel use. I have evidence to back this up, and it is an opinion that I stand by.

However, it is not an opinion I bring up very often, because on the surface it sounds like trans erasure.

This is where things like media literacy become important: the difference between "fuck you bigot" and a reasonable conversation is showing that you have done some of the background research, and that often lies in not making false claims.

For example, when I challenge shivas to explain anarchist theory in their own words, or challenge enlil to explain the fine points of the categorical imperative, this isn't because I am entirely unfamiliar with the topic...it is because I want to judge their familiarity, and respond in kind. In general, when I challenge someone to provide information, it is so that I can compete on the battlefield of their choice.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295057 - 04/25/23 05:06 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Love is a battlefield, bruh.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295068 - 04/25/23 05:17 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

"Ignoring that child marriage (a) exists for pre-teens and (b) usually turns statch rape into marital bliss."

This is why no one takes you seriously. You twist facts and incorporate bold-faced lies to get your points across


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28295080 - 04/25/23 05:29 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

https://newrepublic.com/post/171843/missouri-republican-pushing-anti-trans-bill-defends-child-marriage

Well, some people might call that a direct quote from a republican state legislator, but sure. You can call it lies.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295091 - 04/25/23 05:39 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Show me where it says that in Missouri pre-teens can get married


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28295097 - 04/25/23 05:44 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)



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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28295103 - 04/25/23 05:48 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

They changed the law to require a court order after public outcry a few years ago.

A law that the lawmaker in question opposed.

Tennessee really bring home the gold, they had three ten year old girls marry men in their mid 20s-early 30s in the last two decades.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295110 - 04/25/23 05:51 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
The answer is 16, and it happened in Germany. The youngest permanent sex transition took place at the age of 16. And it wasn't a sweet 16 present either. If you wanna know exactly how many hoops she had to jump through... she's harder than most marines. It's a pretty interesting story.

The reason that I wanted you to do this exercise is to see the amount of BS you need to sift through to answer that question.

In this thread, we have had both Notsheekle and MagicMush come in here, see someone saying "this doesn't happen to kids, and is not as easy as you think it is" and respond with "kids are being transitioned before they're old enough to have sex!" Ignoring that child marriage (a) exists for pre-teens and (b) usually turns statch rape into marital bliss.

The entire point is that finding an answer for yourself allows you to further distinguish between facts and knee-jerk reactions, like the ones you see in this thread. This is good practice for the future.

Unfortunately, you are correct. Even innocent questions can get you painted with the bigot brush. For example, I am 100% convinced that pollution affects the sexual identification of children, and that a not insignificant amount of the increase in LGBT identifying youth can directly be linked to fossil fuel use. I have evidence to back this up, and it is an opinion that I stand by.

However, it is not an opinion I bring up very often, because on the surface it sounds like trans erasure.

This is where things like media literacy become important: the difference between "fuck you bigot" and a reasonable conversation is showing that you have done some of the background research, and that often lies in not making false claims.

For example, when I challenge shivas to explain anarchist theory in their own words, or challenge enlil to explain the fine points of the categorical imperative, this isn't because I am entirely unfamiliar with the topic...it is because I want to judge their familiarity, and respond in kind. In general, when I challenge someone to provide information, it is so that I can compete on the battlefield of their choice.



Wow 16 that is interesting. I'll have to look into that. I didn't mean to write you off but I'm fully aware of how hard it is to sift through searches to try and find that info.

It's always hard to admit that you're wrong and in your head one side makes more sense then the other to you, so for example when I was looking up whether kids regret transitioning by 18 it would've been really easy for me to ignore the NIH in favor of say NewsNation.Where they were giving testimonials of people that regretted transitioning and say see I'm right you're wrong.

With this question in particular i may have been able to find the answer quickly but That's what I feel is lacking when you try and have someone look it up for themselves is their own confirmation bias can dictate which sources they believe.So in your head you're like I did look that up and I saw the thing that agreed with me and not you. I do belive it's important to do your own research and if i was making a presentation about the subject I'd take however many hours nessicary to sift through sources, determine which are more credible then others etc but I haven't had the time to do that more then an hour or so yesterday.

I do get what you're saying though, It's just such a weird time we live in because even things that aren't controversial that I'm presented as a fact and I'm almost sure it's a credible source and I found the right answer, often I still don't fully believe it as fact anymore.

That's what I was driving at though is it is unfortunate that in your case as an example, someone that just spent a whole thread defending the lgbtq community, alot of people in the lgbtq community will see that theory about environmental pollution possibly playing a role in the increase of lgbtq youth and all of the sudden you're written off as someone who blindly hates lgbtq people. Because in your case I'd imagine they'd say "it's ignorant and toxic that you'd belive that lgbtq people weren't born that way and that it's a poisoning from pollution so youre just another homophobic bigot" When that's not what you said or meant. And then you spent tons of time defending people because it's the right thing to do but they still call you an enemy.

So I think one of the reasons (other then actual hate mongering) we've seen such an increase in hatred against the lgbtq community is the only people that will talk with someone who has disagreements on certain lgbtq issues is people that really do hate lgbtq people and since those are the only people who seem to be able to understand where you're coming from you're more likely to start believing things they belive that you didnt before. Truly hateful things.

In that way I feel like those loud voices calling everyone that doesn't agree with everything they believe a transphobe or homophobe are deeply hurting the cause of regular lgbtq people and the cause as a whole


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295118 - 04/25/23 05:55 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Applicants wishing to apply who are younger than 15 must obtain a circuit court order.




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Quote:

Kryptos said:
They changed the law to require a court order after public outcry a few years ago.

A law that the lawmaker in question opposed.

Tennessee really bring home the gold, they had three ten year old girls marry men in their mid 20s-early 30s in the last two decades.




So let me get this straight, your logic is that stupid shit(a) exists so we must let stupid shit(b) to exist too. Are you really that dumb?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295125 - 04/25/23 05:59 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
They changed the law to require a court order after public outcry a few years ago.

A law that the lawmaker in question opposed.

Tennessee really bring home the gold, they had three ten year old girls marry men in their mid 20s-early 30s in the last two decades.




Either way, it's still possible for preteens to marry in Missouri


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28295135 - 04/25/23 06:09 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

Oh, and anyone that is simultaneously concerned about children doing permanent damage to their bodies and against puberty blockers (which prevent irreversible changes to the body) is a hypocrite. That's really how you can tell that anti trans people have no legitimate concerns besides "I think those people are icky and should therefore be killed".




Children cant stay at home alone because not mature enough. Cant get tattoos, drink alcohol, smoke, drive a car, vote, consent to sex, aren't tried as adults because its universally accepted that their brains aren't developed enough to fully comprehend and make properly informed decisions. But you're a bigot if you think a child's too young to change their gender



A question to you because i have thought this way too and still hold some of those beliefs is if it's not a permanent change, let's say they just identify as trans no hormone blockers, no surgeries what harm does it really do?

It really is not easy to get something like hormone blockers, it is a rigorous process even before this thread i knew that. And from earlier research I've done there's not alot of those cases. It exists but isn't prevalent by any means


I think in your mind people who support Trans kids support full on surgical transitioning which you don't believe in and honestly I don't either I think surgery is too radical for someone under 18 for those reasons you gave. But the reality is that's an almost non existent phenomenon especially in the US so youre hearing about trans kids and in your head they're permanently transitioning these kids and that's something you're against. But that's not actually happening barely at all.

It's mainly just kids identifying as trans and occasionally going through all the hoops to get hormone blockers.

So I guess my question to you is let's say the transition isn't permanent and can be reversed at any time, do you still feel the same way?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28295149 - 04/25/23 06:25 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
They changed the law to require a court order after public outcry a few years ago.

A law that the lawmaker in question opposed.

Tennessee really bring home the gold, they had three ten year old girls marry men in their mid 20s-early 30s in the last two decades.




Either way, it's still possible for preteens to marry in Missouri




Whats disturbing is that people are actually trying to promote "trans children" as a normal beautiful thing. People are actually advocating that pre-teens/teens should be able to artificially change their bodies and brain chemistry to conform to whichever gender they identify with. Contrary theres no popular opinion going around that pre/teens should be getting married to older men/women.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28295167 - 04/25/23 06:40 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Im agianst all elective surgeries for kids/teenagers. For the most part i think of it as child abuse and definitely not healthy. As for kids identifying as "trans", i think it shouldn't be encouraged but they shouldn't be stopped. As long as you're not taking pills/hormones to alter your development, i think its fine and it doesn't hurt anyone. But then agian, i dont think that if a kid says hes trans that he should be identified as a girl and be able play on girl sports teams or use women's washrooms etc. People should be free to "identify" however they want as long as they're not hurting themselves or impacting people, ie; being malicious with their trans identity or by hurting their development by artificially changing their brain chemistry/body with hormones/blockers


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28295205 - 04/25/23 07:24 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
With this question in particular i may have been able to find the answer quickly but That's what I feel is lacking when you try and have someone look it up for themselves is their own confirmation bias can dictate which sources they believe.So in your head you're like I did look that up and I saw the thing that agreed with me and not you. I do belive it's important to do your own research and if i was making a presentation about the subject I'd take however many hours nessicary to sift through sources, determine which are more credible then others etc but I haven't had the time to do that more then an hour or so yesterday.




It's weird that I always specified permanent, isn't it? Like, it is heavily implied, since we're talking about kids transitioning genders, so why add the extra word?

One of the fun things about using imprecise language is that it allows a variety of thought. So. Are we concerned about kids transitioning genders...Surgically? Socially? Metaphorically?

I think each of those merits a different level of concern. A boy playing a female role in a play on stage, versus someone who once identified as a boy asking people to call her she, versus a 20 year old man who has spent the last ten years of his life in one of the previous two roles, and has now decided to pay a surgeon to invert his penis...those are three very, very, very different scenarios.

But some people have a vested interest in making that all too complicated. It muddies the waters.  And when the waters are muddy, it's easier to toss the baby with the bathwater. I mean, read my previous hypothetical in reverse: an eight year old boy got surgery to invert his penis, had to identify as a girl against his will to get any sort of acceptance after his mistake, and is now relegated to being a shit-tier local actor pretending to be a woman? That would be terrible!

Control of language is control of the mind. There are certain thoughts that I am absolutely incapable of having in English. There are certain thoughts I am absolutely incapable of having in Russian. There are thoughts I require other languages for. Like this one, actually, but I will do my best: When you have an idea, your brain begins to interpret it*, and the easiest way to do so is words. That is, after all, how you communicate. But what happens when you don't have the right words? You use similar words. You do your best. but all of those words that you do your best with have their own meanings. And by substituting those meanings, you actually change your entire interpretation* of your previous idea. Your current, everyday, shit that has built up over the decades, gets in the way.

And changing that language is the most valuable industry in the world. Did they cry? Did they sob? Did they wail in despair? Is there a difference? Pay attention to the words people use.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
That's what I was driving at though is it is unfortunate that in your case as an example, someone that just spent a whole thread defending the lgbtq community, alot of people in the lgbtq community will see that theory about environmental pollution possibly playing a role in the increase of lgbtq youth and all of the sudden you're written off as someone who blindly hates lgbtq people. Because in your case I'd imagine they'd say "it's ignorant and toxic that you'd belive that lgbtq people weren't born that way and that it's a poisoning from pollution so youre just another homophobic bigot" When that's not what you said or meant. And then you spent tons of time defending people because it's the right thing to do but they still call you an enemy.




They are not wrong to do so. I am not a PR department. I am not part of the LGBTQ community. I have no right to speak on their behalf. I make no secret of my beliefs, I think many regulars are aware that I think there is a connection between exposure to EDCs and gender variability in the population, but I am also keenly aware of how my words can be misinterpreted. And words matter. Things is, they matter a whole lot more to the actual LGBTQ community, than they could ever matter to me.

Anyway, two ears, one mouth. As far as I know, some of the DEI, ESG, ect. stuff? I think one of the messages is for straight white guys like me to just shut up and listen for a bit. We are new to this. They live it every day. We come off as a bit clueless, and often tone-deaf.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28295212 - 04/25/23 07:27 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
ie; being malicious with their trans identity or by hurting their development by artificially changing their brain chemistry/body with hormones/blockers




See? Control of language.

A puberty blocker...stops changes in the body. Literally, the entire point of a puberty blocker is to give a child time to make a decision. What MagicMush here is saying is that he very much wants children to undergo permanent changes in sexual identity development, as long as they're the changes he deems to be correct.

But he phrases his opposition to children being given time to make a decision as "stopping harm"--it's like how anti-abortionists started calling themselves "pro-life". They couldn't be honest and call themselves anti-choicers, nobody would agree to that. They manipulate language to make you think you agree.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295289 - 04/25/23 08:33 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Anyone who isn't foolish does this all the time in their daily lives


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295391 - 04/25/23 09:33 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

People in general dont know what they want in life, much less teens and adolescent children. Why not let things play out naturally and see what happens? What makes you think children should be able to fuck up their bodies and or lives over something crazy like thinking you're the other gender?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: NotSheekle]
    #28295645 - 04/26/23 03:39 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

NotSheekle said:
No such thing as trans people, transphobia or even homophobia... not in the way it is described. These words are co-opted like Racist, Fascist or Nazi. These people fall into multiple categories of mental illness, identity disorders, their demands are compulsions and it is not our responsibility to conform with them.




someone said this was disrespectful, im not so sure it is. its uninformed, and a bit silly.

no such thing. would mean that the word doesnt mean anything or represent anything.

co-opted... is used wrong here... that would imply it had a meaning and was being used incorrectly to mean something else in the context you used it...but you said it had no meaning.

racist, fascist, and nazi all have meanings as well, which means your comparitor makes very little sense based on your initial assertion.

mental illness, is an umbrella term, but then you list 2 mental illnesses and then after implying they are demanding things you list a third.

and you say its not our responcibility to conform with them.


ok... so we have broken down your post, and only the last line has any meaning. "its not our responcibility to conform with them"

cool...we live in a country where it is our responcibility to allow others their rights. rights to express themselves (dance, act, speak, dress, fuck) in any way they like. the expression is your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. meaning you can act poorly, (swinging fists) so long as it doesnt stop me from the pursuit of happiness.

i would say, that a trans person is actively in the pursuit of happiness in a much bigger and more important way than most people. and in this country we have a responsibility to allow for that unless it is somehow stopping us from doing the same. you may say for example that you dont like christians being able to worship and burn down a church. but you are stopping them from their right to happiness so we dont allow that. infact its our responcibility to defend their right to worship as they see fit even their cannibalism offends us.

we dont have a responcibility to assist, at all. but we do have a responcibility to get out of the way and let them live their lives the way they see fit.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295671 - 04/26/23 04:25 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
ie; being malicious with their trans identity or by hurting their development by artificially changing their brain chemistry/body with hormones/blockers




See? Control of language.

A puberty blocker...stops changes in the body. Literally, the entire point of a puberty blocker is to give a child time to make a decision. What MagicMush here is saying is that he very much wants children to undergo permanent changes in sexual identity development, as long as they're the changes he deems to be correct.

But he phrases his opposition to children being given time to make a decision as "stopping harm"--it's like how anti-abortionists started calling themselves "pro-life". They couldn't be honest and call themselves anti-choicers, nobody would agree to that. They manipulate language to make you think you agree.




It's newspeak. Some practice it in varying degrees of consciousness.  but it's all newspeak.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28295734 - 04/26/23 05:42 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I'm the father of a trans kid and when I first found out, I had to research the shit out of this.

What I found out was astonishing. Trans kids are mostly made because of an evil agenda by our ruling class (depop).

It starts out with childhood vax's, they contain baby fetal tissue cells which have an abundance of x-y chromosomes (what likely got my kid). These chromosomes are antagonistic, only one wins.

The next big hurdle is everyday products like soy, please don't feed your infants soy milk.

After this there are many many chemicals called "gender benders", please look that up.

Lastly it's pushed in schools and the media as trendy to be trans and the social pressure for kids can make them do it combined with what I mentioned above. Many kids don't even have a chance and have no idea what hit them.

Trans kids are by far the most suicidle group, my kid has tried to commit suicide multiple times, they are also the unhappiest group there is too, this usually happens after body mutilation, mine has had his breasts removed, thankfully he didn't have his lower surgery. Also the fricken state of california paid for all of this, he did not have to pay for anything.

Everyday is a major struggle for him with depression, antidepressants make it worse and that's why I'm here.


Edited by jnzy111 (04/26/23 06:51 AM)


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111]
    #28295752 - 04/26/23 06:06 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I’d be depressed if my dad thought soy milk turn kids trans instead of listening to my thoughts and feelings.

Imagine how horrible that must be.

‘Dad I got a problem…’

‘No child, your thoughts and feelings are illegitimate it’s the soy milk.’

Wow instead of my dad talking to me about my feelings and my agency he lumps me in with conspiracy theory nuttery. Thanks dad.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111]
    #28295754 - 04/26/23 06:08 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

i would like to see evidence that it is pushed in schools.

i dont think using they/them instead of he/she/they is causing anyone to becomes trans... beyond that i have seen NOTHING implying that any school is pushing kids to become trans.

and why would they, what does the school gain from trans kids... when conspiracy theories have no end game benefit its usually just bs.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28295763 - 04/26/23 06:26 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
i would like to see evidence that it is pushed in schools.

i dont think using they/them instead of he/she/they is causing anyone to becomes trans... beyond that i have seen NOTHING implying that any school is pushing kids to become trans.

and why would they, what does the school gain from trans kids... when conspiracy theories have no end game benefit its usually just bs.




I think most of these highly retarded conspiracy theories started out as jokes on Reddit. Just like qanon. Then really paranoid, scared, gullible people read them and dont get the joke. That's exactly what this soy theory sounds like.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28295823 - 04/26/23 07:27 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)



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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28295826 - 04/26/23 07:28 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
People in general dont know what they want in life, much less teens and adolescent children. Why not let things play out naturally and see what happens? What makes you think children should be able to fuck up their bodies and or lives over something crazy like thinking you're the other gender?




Because these are pretty goddamn clear cases of people knowing exactly what they want in life, trying to do it, and you are standing here insisting that no, they are wrong and don't actually know what they want.

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Quote:

rxb said:
i would like to see evidence that it is pushed in schools.

i dont think using they/them instead of he/she/they is causing anyone to becomes trans... beyond that i have seen NOTHING implying that any school is pushing kids to become trans.

and why would they, what does the school gain from trans kids... when conspiracy theories have no end game benefit its usually just bs.




I think most of these highly retarded conspiracy theories started out as jokes on Reddit. Just like qanon. Then really paranoid, scared, gullible people read them and dont get the joke. That's exactly what this soy theory sounds like.




Soybeans, like most plants, have phytohormomes, including phytoestrogens. Combine that with a woefully underdeveloped understanding of biology, and people start confusing the phytoestrogens with xenoestrogens.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295838 - 04/26/23 07:34 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

beer too.

soybeans and beer will turn you trans according to jnzy glorious first post.

:thaaannks:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295840 - 04/26/23 07:35 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
People in general dont know what they want in life, much less teens and adolescent children. Why not let things play out naturally and see what happens? What makes you think children should be able to fuck up their bodies and or lives over something crazy like thinking you're the other gender?




Because these are pretty goddamn clear cases of people knowing exactly what they want in life, trying to do it, and you are standing here insisting that no, they are wrong and don't actually know what they want.

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Quote:

rxb said:
i would like to see evidence that it is pushed in schools.

i dont think using they/them instead of he/she/they is causing anyone to becomes trans... beyond that i have seen NOTHING implying that any school is pushing kids to become trans.

and why would they, what does the school gain from trans kids... when conspiracy theories have no end game benefit its usually just bs.




I think most of these highly retarded conspiracy theories started out as jokes on Reddit. Just like qanon. Then really paranoid, scared, gullible people read them and dont get the joke. That's exactly what this soy theory sounds like.




Soybeans, like most plants, have phytohormomes, including phytoestrogens. Combine that with a woefully underdeveloped understanding of biology, and people start confusing the phytoestrogens with xenoestrogens.




soy and soy products have been in heavy use in asia for 500+ years... do you see a higher level of gay/trans people in asia? or could it be that someone is fooling you.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: mushboy]
    #28295844 - 04/26/23 07:36 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
beer too.

soybeans and beer will turn you trans according to jnzy glorious first post.

:thaaannks:




oh shit... the beer, THE BEER MAKES ME SUCK DICK.... i get it now.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28295849 - 04/26/23 07:39 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

combine that with growing shrooms and...
:youaregay:.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: mushboy]
    #28295858 - 04/26/23 07:46 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
beer too.

soybeans and beer will turn you trans according to jnzy glorious first post.

:thaaannks:




I mean in all honesty there's more evidence linking alcohol to gender dysphoria than there is soybeans. Alcohol I'm general just fucks you right on up.

I guess injecting soybeans might make the phytoestrogens act like xenoestrogens? Of course, having bits of soybean in your blood is gonna cause other issues.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295867 - 04/26/23 07:52 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

:lol:

fat dudes chugging lite growing bitch tits and child bearing hips.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28295951 - 04/26/23 08:57 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
beer too.

soybeans and beer will turn you trans according to jnzy glorious first post.

:thaaannks:




I mean in all honesty there's more evidence linking alcohol to gender dysphoria than there is soybeans. Alcohol I'm general just fucks you right on up.

I guess injecting soybeans might make the phytoestrogens act like xenoestrogens? Of course, having bits of soybean in your blood is gonna cause other issues.



Makes sense why Budweiser caught the gay.


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Offlinejnzy111
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: mushboy]
    #28296052 - 04/26/23 10:16 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

So what makes you such an authority on trans kids, do you have one???

When something happens to a child of yours, you go through great lengths to find out what happened and how can you even say such things if you haven't even taken one step in my shoes???

Is online bashing your favorite thing? Get a life..

Quote:

mushboy said:
I’d be depressed if my dad thought soy milk turn kids trans instead of listening to my thoughts and feelings.

Imagine how horrible that must be.

‘Dad I got a problem…’

‘No child, your thoughts and feelings are illegitimate it’s the soy milk.’

Wow instead of my dad talking to me about my feelings and my agency he lumps me in with conspiracy theory nuttery. Thanks dad.




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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111] * 1
    #28296056 - 04/26/23 10:22 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

You seem to think you have a say, and I doubt you've got a trans kid. Or even a kid at all, TBH.

Very heavy "As a nonbinary gay black man, I [GOP drivel]" vibes.


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Offlinejnzy111
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28296124 - 04/26/23 11:26 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
You seem to think you have a say, and I doubt you've got a trans kid. Or even a kid at all, TBH.

Very heavy "As a nonbinary gay black man, I [GOP drivel]" vibes.




Why in the world would I make something like that up? What in the world would I have to gain by doing so? Do you call people liers regularly?

You have no clue...


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28296138 - 04/26/23 11:44 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
People in general dont know what they want in life, much less teens and adolescent children. Why not let things play out naturally and see what happens? What makes you think children should be able to fuck up their bodies and or lives over something crazy like thinking you're the other gender?




Because these are pretty goddamn clear cases of people knowing exactly what they want in life, trying to do it, and you are standing here insisting that no, they are wrong and don't actually know what they want.

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Quote:

rxb said:
i would like to see evidence that it is pushed in schools.

i dont think using they/them instead of he/she/they is causing anyone to becomes trans... beyond that i have seen NOTHING implying that any school is pushing kids to become trans.

and why would they, what does the school gain from trans kids... when conspiracy theories have no end game benefit its usually just bs.




I think most of these highly retarded conspiracy theories started out as jokes on Reddit. Just like qanon. Then really paranoid, scared, gullible people read them and dont get the joke. That's exactly what this soy theory sounds like.




Soybeans, like most plants, have phytohormomes, including phytoestrogens. Combine that with a woefully underdeveloped understanding of biology, and people start confusing the phytoestrogens with xenoestrogens.



Nah man. Its usually just a phase. All stupid kids go thru phases and grow out of them. I dont even like half the stuff i liked when I was 16. I mean to be honest only a sicko would advocate that children or teenagers should be stunting their development and altering their brain chemistry over a silly mental illness


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #28296143 - 04/26/23 11:50 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Just because you were stupid and confused about your passions doesn’t mean other people are.

I knew from day one I wanted to bang chicks and do guy stuff like manufacture drugs.

This phase has lasted almost 40 years.

:stoned:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28296148 - 04/26/23 11:53 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Which is it, a phase or a mental illness?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28296150 - 04/26/23 11:55 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Considering there's a huge uptick in trans individuals over the last 10 years, could be both.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111]
    #28296167 - 04/26/23 12:19 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

jnzy111 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
You seem to think you have a say, and I doubt you've got a trans kid. Or even a kid at all, TBH.

Very heavy "As a nonbinary gay black man, I [GOP drivel]" vibes.




Why in the world would I make something like that up? What in the world would I have to gain by doing so? Do you call people liers regularly?

You have no clue...




I dunno why you would make it up. I also don't know why I see right wing white men pretend to be black and gay, I guess they think it gives them clout?

But, if you choose to base your argument on your identity, and use your identity to shut down opposing views, I get to question your identity. And on the internet, you're just a username.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28296188 - 04/26/23 12:42 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

when you say you "found out"but you cant point to evidence....whats that mean


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28296520 - 04/26/23 05:32 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Which is it, a phase or a mental illness?




Cannot be understated how much of this animosity is chiefly due to conservatives’ creeping suspicion of their own sexual fluidity.



That’s why things that they used to see as somewhat normal, like drag, is being relegated to the evils of transgenderism. They’re just beginning to see the bigger picture with respect to the spectrum of sexuality.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28296751 - 04/26/23 07:52 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

There is a lot of misinformation out there.
I also did not understand and when I learned that no one is permanently altering a child. BUT instead allowing a child to choose how they are referenced to, who they are, how they dress, etc.
I support that.
This is not a personal problem that I have. And I am grateful. I have some that do have this as an issue and how they are treated... is detrimental to if they live or die.. it's that serious.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: loladoreen]
    #28296781 - 04/26/23 08:06 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I remember not that long ago posting in a similar thread.  Enkidu was going off the rails about this, that and the other thing.  I kept posting legitimate studies that said the opposite of everything Fox News told him.  Eventually he admitted that he needed to learn more about it.  A day later he went full retard and ate a ban.  Even when you post all the facts in the world, people who just want to be outraged and have there own biases confirmed wont change their beliefs


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28296784 - 04/26/23 08:07 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Agree


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111]
    #28297254 - 04/27/23 07:12 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

jnzy111 said:


Lastly it's pushed in schools and the media as trendy to be trans and the social pressure for kids can make them do it combined with what I mentioned above. Many kids don't even have a chance and have no idea what hit them.




it always blows my mind when people say things like this and then offer no evidence as if its as obvious as the sky being blue. it truly is absurd.

what POSSIBLE benefit does the school have for actively trying to make children trans?

what purpose do you think it serves...

its like making the claim...schools are pushing children to chop off their hands....

ok... give me proof, and explain why. because maybe there is proof that one teacher one time said "if you arent careful you will chop off your hand " and out of context that may very well seem like the teacher wanted it... but when you analyse it you realize the teacher has no motivation to WANT the child to do that.

in a different example, a teach may say "you have the option to cut your hair, or grew it long " and if a parent didnt want his kid to grow their hair long, they may be mad that a teacher put an idea in the kids head that there was an option. but in these cases and in the trans case the teacher doesnt have any AGENDA....

in order to have an agenda there would have to be some motivation for the teacher to WANT trans kids in the classroom....and there just isnt any reason why a teacher would care one way or the other.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28297270 - 04/27/23 07:25 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

jnzy111 said:
... it's pushed in schools and the media as trendy





and you teach your children to follow trends like a sheep? did you ever explain the concept of trends to your child?

or do you just wash your hands of any accountability and only wait to claim some victory if the child turns out 'good' by your judgements?

i think you might be making it up tho.

first post on a drug website is complaining about trans people.
:lolwut:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28297310 - 04/27/23 08:28 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

jnzy111 said:


Lastly it's pushed in schools and the media as trendy to be trans and the social pressure for kids can make them do it combined with what I mentioned above. Many kids don't even have a chance and have no idea what hit them.




it always blows my mind when people say things like this and then offer no evidence as if its as obvious as the sky being blue. it truly is absurd.

what POSSIBLE benefit does the school have for actively trying to make children trans?

what purpose do you think it serves...

its like making the claim...schools are pushing children to chop off their hands....

ok... give me proof, and explain why. because maybe there is proof that one teacher one time said "if you arent careful you will chop off your hand " and out of context that may very well seem like the teacher wanted it... but when you analyse it you realize the teacher has no motivation to WANT the child to do that.

in a different example, a teach may say "you have the option to cut your hair, or grew it long " and if a parent didnt want his kid to grow their hair long, they may be mad that a teacher put an idea in the kids head that there was an option. but in these cases and in the trans case the teacher doesnt have any AGENDA....

in order to have an agenda there would have to be some motivation for the teacher to WANT trans kids in the classroom....and there just isnt any reason why a teacher would care one way or the other.




Well, their thinking is very simple: trans people can't have bio kids, so to reproduce, they need to convert regular kids into trans kids.

Of course, there is the implicit assumption that trans people feel the need to spread, which is very weird. Unless you realize that they think transgenderism works like Christianity, which explicitly targets children, under the idea that if you get them young, they stay for life.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28298000 - 04/27/23 07:19 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Which is it, a phase or a mental illness?




Cannot be understated how much of this animosity is chiefly due to conservatives’ creeping suspicion of their own sexual fluidity.



That’s why things that they used to see as somewhat normal, like drag, is being relegated to the evils of transgenderism. They’re just beginning to see the bigger picture with respect to the spectrum of sexuality.



Drag queens, for the most part were out of sight and out of mind. Then for some reason, some of them decided they wanted to start reading to children. You call it repressed sexuality, i call it reality. Not many parents or people are comfortable with the idea of their children talking to a grown man dressed as a woman


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #28298036 - 04/27/23 07:52 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Then don't take YOUR kids there it's that simple


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28298044 - 04/27/23 07:55 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
...Not many parents or people are comfortable with the idea of their children talking to a grown man....




thats the same reason ill tell my children to avoid strangers and/or priests.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28298240 - 04/27/23 11:20 PM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Which is it, a phase or a mental illness?




Cannot be understated how much of this animosity is chiefly due to conservatives’ creeping suspicion of their own sexual fluidity.



That’s why things that they used to see as somewhat normal, like drag, is being relegated to the evils of transgenderism. They’re just beginning to see the bigger picture with respect to the spectrum of sexuality.



Drag queens, for the most part were out of sight and out of mind. Then for some reason, some of them decided they wanted to start reading to children. You call it repressed sexuality, i call it reality. Not many parents or people are comfortable with the idea of their children talking to a grown man dressed as a woman




And this was in no way a problem for most of a decade, and then suddenly became a massive problem?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28298318 - 04/28/23 02:01 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Thats the thing though, some drag queens were being invited to schools


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28298327 - 04/28/23 02:15 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

news story about ronald reagans drag show for kids.

this used to be no big deal... people are just making it one now



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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28298408 - 04/28/23 05:20 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Oh you beat me to it. Reagan dressed in drag for military fundraisers or some shit. It was fine then, just not now.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28298533 - 04/28/23 07:37 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Did you guys see the new conspiracy that stormy Daniels is secretly a drag queen? Turns out Trump is into chicks that used to have dicks.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28298539 - 04/28/23 07:42 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Did you guys see the new conspiracy that stormy Daniels is secretly a drag queen? Turns out Trump is into chicks that used to have dicks.




drag queens dont cut their dicks off. to drop the bomb you intended to drop you would need to say that stormy was a trans woman ... and trump is into women who used to have dicks.

ok proceed.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28298540 - 04/28/23 07:43 AM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Yeah, conspiracy theorists aren't known for their well thought out narratives.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111]
    #28299121 - 04/28/23 04:44 PM (8 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

jnzy111 said:
I'm the father of a trans kid and when I first found out, I had to research the shit out of this.

What I found out was astonishing. Trans kids are mostly made because of an evil agenda by our ruling class (depop).

It starts out with childhood vax's, they contain baby fetal tissue cells which have an abundance of x-y chromosomes (what likely got my kid). These chromosomes are antagonistic, only one wins.

The next big hurdle is everyday products like soy, please don't feed your infants soy milk.

After this there are many many chemicals called "gender benders", please look that up.

Lastly it's pushed in schools and the media as trendy to be trans and the social pressure for kids can make them do it combined with what I mentioned above. Many kids don't even have a chance and have no idea what hit them.

Trans kids are by far the most suicidle group, my kid has tried to commit suicide multiple times, they are also the unhappiest group there is too, this usually happens after body mutilation, mine has had his breasts removed, thankfully he didn't have his lower surgery. Also the fricken state of california paid for all of this, he did not have to pay for anything.

Everyday is a major struggle for him with depression, antidepressants make it worse and that's why I'm here.




I can't imagine the pain they feel and they pain you feel watching your child hurt.
I am glad you are here and this is supposed to be a thread that is respectful. Hopefully we can continue that.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: loladoreen]
    #28299748 - 04/29/23 08:24 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

I fail to understand why any of this shit matters to anybody who isn't directly affected by it, and why a person who is unaffected gives a shit.

Get yer own shit in order, and let others do the same.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: TBRS1] * 1
    #28299887 - 04/29/23 10:42 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:


Quote:

jnzy111 said:



Lastly it's pushed in schools and the media as trendy to be trans and the social pressure for kids can make them do it combined with what I mentioned above. Many kids don't even have a chance and have no idea what hit them



 
  I have 2 kids in a CA school and is absolutely not fucking pushed in school that is bullshit , like the rest of your post .


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Edited by Psilynut2 (04/29/23 10:43 AM)


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: jnzy111]
    #28299952 - 04/29/23 11:50 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

jnzy111 said:
I'm the father of a trans kid and when I first found out, I had to research the shit out of this.

What I found out was astonishing. Trans kids are mostly made because of an evil agenda by our ruling class (depop).

[...]

Trans kids are by far the most suicidle group, my kid has tried to commit suicide multiple times, they are also the unhappiest group there is too, this usually happens after body mutilation




Source on claim regarding body mutilation surgery? My experience has shown discrimination and acceptance of gender identity as major influences on lifetime suicidal ideation - especially parental acceptance. Some food for thought before the next time you go telling your kid they mutilated their body because of an evil agenda.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
Quote:

The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.





https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33275858/
Quote:

All forms of peer and adult acceptance were associated with reduced reports of a past-year suicide attempt, with the strongest associations found for acceptance from parents (adjusted odds ratio [aOR] = 0.52) and straight/heterosexual friends (aOR = 0.54). Youth who reported high levels of acceptance from any adult had nearly 40% (aOR = 0.61) lower odds of a past-year suicide attempt compared with LGBTQ peers with little to no acceptance. Youth with high levels of acceptance from any peer also had significantly lower odds of reporting a past-year suicide attempt (aOR = 0.55). These relationships remained significant even after controlling for the impact of each form of acceptance, suggesting unique associations with suicide risk for both peer and adult acceptance.




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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28299991 - 04/29/23 12:41 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

I'm guessing their household is of the "beatings will continue until morale improves" variety.

Maybe the kid will make it.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28301367 - 04/30/23 05:15 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

I have some beefs with the movement. They shouldn't compete in womens/girls sports and no permanent procedures until the person is 18. you cant get a tat at 17 you should be able to cut any body parts off either.

I think there is movement to create more trans kids among shrinks and guidance counselors that is totally wrong. The percent of these people has exploded, it seems like kids who were tomboys or just effeminate gay in my day would be told they are opposite gender now, It's being pushed too hard, and its causing a huge blow back. 

That said I will call someone whatever the fuck they want to be called. And what the stall they shit in isn't really a real issue. I mean i see these laws in the US now saying you can only use bathroom of your gender at birth and that seems like too far the other way. I certainly don't think every alternative lifestyle is a mental illness. There are people for whom transitioning was the best thing that ever happened to them. They probably represent far less than 1 percent of the species though.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: viraldrome]
    #28301585 - 04/30/23 08:24 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

i´d love for any of these people who say that there are adults pushing kids to become trans... to show a shred of evidence.


--------------------
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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28301978 - 05/01/23 08:58 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

So much peer pressure to be trans these days.  When I was a kid, I bought air jordans because of peer pressure.  I regret it to this day.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Enlil]
    #28302124 - 05/01/23 11:29 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So much peer pressure to be trans these days.  When I was a kid, I bought air jordans because of peer pressure.  I regret it to this day.




legitimate source for any pressure from anyone at anytime for anyone to go trans?


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28302138 - 05/01/23 11:48 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

I have never felt pressured to be trans
:smile:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28302602 - 05/01/23 07:05 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

Have you ever faked a different sexuality just to fit in?




My brother lives in Seattle and is a very liberal Democrat.  He rolls his eyes as he tells me about his 11-year-old daughter, who has a large group of friends who spend a lot of time talking about gender, sex, trans people, and pronouns. It's a constant source of interest to these kids (especially the constantly changing pronouns), and a significant part of daily conversations.  Some girls have decided they are homosexual and wear "Proud to Be Gay" shirts.   


Quote:

loladoreen said:

I will always be baffled at why other people are so interested in other peoples sex lives.




I'm baffled why so many people feel the need to share their sexual preferences and gender identity.  In the last 8 months I've had a mother introduce me to their 4 and 5-year-olds as sexually "nonbinary" and a grandmother who told me her grandkid became transexual at the age of 3.

I think it's bizarre how many people are obsessed with it.

The tone often seems similar to passionate religious proselytizing.

Why would anyone think I care about their sexual preferences & gender identity?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28302605 - 05/01/23 07:07 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:

I'm baffled why so many people feel the need to share their sexual preferences and gender identity.



Why would you be baffled?  Has there ever been a time when people didn't share their sexual preference and gender identity?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28302616 - 05/01/23 07:15 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

If I met someone and they told me they enjoy anal sex, I would find that strange.  There is nothing wrong with anal sex.  Lots of normal people do it.  But the need to tell others is baffling.  Being baffled wouldn't mean I'm anal-sex-phobic or a closet homosexual.

It wouldn't mean I hate & discriminate against anal sex practitioners.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28302620 - 05/01/23 07:20 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

But people constantly inform people around them that they are heterosexual, and I've never once seen you make a post about how baffling that is.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Enlil]
    #28302626 - 05/01/23 07:25 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

In my life I don't have people telling me they are heterosexual.  I guess my friends and family don't feel the need to tell me stuff like that.

I've certainly never ever had a parent introduce me to their young 3 or 4 or 5 year old as being heterosexual.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28302659 - 05/01/23 07:55 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

Have you ever faked a different sexuality just to fit in?




My brother lives in Seattle and is a very liberal Democrat.  He rolls his eyes as he tells me about his 11-year-old daughter, who has a large group of friends who spend a lot of time talking about gender, sex, trans people, and pronouns. It's a constant source of interest to these kids (especially the constantly changing pronouns), and a significant part of daily conversations.  Some girls have decided they are homosexual and wear "Proud to Be Gay" shirts.




So are you an 11 year old girl or are your thoughts irrelevant?

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
In my life I don't have people telling me they are heterosexual.  I guess my friends and family don't feel the need to tell me stuff like that.

I've certainly never ever had a parent introduce me to their young 3 or 4 or 5 year old as being heterosexual.




Lol, yes you have. They do it constantly, it's so normal your brain doesn't even realize it.

For example, has one of those young 3, 4, or 5 year olds you seem to spend so much time with ever mentioned their mother? Because the word 'mother' is an expression of heterosexual gender identity.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28302666 - 05/01/23 08:02 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

I would  say that I don't like it when people make their sexual preferences their whole personality and identity. There's plenty of gay people that talk about normal shit and maybe mention their love life on occasion like everyone else i respect the hell outta those people. But having people make it their identity and talk about lgtq stuff all the time I just see as pretentious and self absorbed


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28302676 - 05/01/23 08:11 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28302679 - 05/01/23 08:16 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

:solidnod:


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28302691 - 05/01/23 08:27 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

I live by Seattle.

I understand your opinion completely.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28302696 - 05/01/23 08:27 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

And it's not just movies, either. I mean, shit. Advertisement? heterosexuals. Music? Fuckin' all about heterosexual...fucking. Hell, if I look out the window, I see some heterosexuals holding hands openly ON THE STREET in front OF MY HOUSE where MY KIDS CAN SEE!

We need to control these heterosexuals, because they are simply out of control. Did you know the majority of pedophiles and mass shooters are heterosexual? WE NEED SOME ANSWERS HERE, and until we have some we really need to lock these heterosexuals up. Just until we can figure things out.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28302701 - 05/01/23 08:30 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

I also understand feeling liberated and wanting to share.
Obviously that doesn't apply to the mother of young children. BUT
I dont know her background or her feelings.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28302730 - 05/01/23 08:43 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
In my life I don't have people telling me they are heterosexual.  I guess my friends and family don't feel the need to tell me stuff like that.

I've certainly never ever had a parent introduce me to their young 3 or 4 or 5 year old as being heterosexual.



I didn't say tell you. They make it clear though on the daily.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: loladoreen]
    #28302886 - 05/01/23 10:25 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

people sayin' ¨my wife this"and "my husband that" like we want to know what goes on in your bedroom....


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28303018 - 05/02/23 04:52 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

Have you ever faked a different sexuality just to fit in?




My brother lives in Seattle and is a very liberal Democrat.  He rolls his eyes as he tells me about his 11-year-old daughter, who has a large group of friends who spend a lot of time talking about gender, sex, trans people, and pronouns. It's a constant source of interest to these kids (especially the constantly changing pronouns), and a significant part of daily conversations.  Some girls have decided they are homosexual and wear "Proud to Be Gay" shirts.




So are you an 11 year old girl or are your thoughts irrelevant?

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
In my life I don't have people telling me they are heterosexual.  I guess my friends and family don't feel the need to tell me stuff like that.

I've certainly never ever had a parent introduce me to their young 3 or 4 or 5 year old as being heterosexual.




Lol, yes you have. They do it constantly, it's so normal your brain doesn't even realize it.

For example, has one of those young 3, 4, or 5 year olds you seem to spend so much time with ever mentioned their mother? Because the word 'mother' is an expression of heterosexual gender identity.



Would the book "Mary has two mommies"(I may have the title wrong) be a story of heterosexual identity? Can't mother be ascribed to whoever the child feels is more motherly?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28303089 - 05/02/23 06:55 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Movies are to entertain and make money. Other sexualities compared to a  heterosexual lifestyle are a fraction of a fraction proportionally, it makes perfect sense why the plots are the way they are. It's the audience and marketing.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28303110 - 05/02/23 07:15 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Movies are to entertain and make money. Other sexualities compared to a  heterosexual lifestyle are a fraction of a fraction proportionally, it makes perfect sense why the plots are the way they are. It's the audience and marketing.




i dont think that has anything to do with the point that subjecting the minority group to standards not associated with the majority group is unreasonable... which was the point if you missed it.

people get outraged about non-normative people expressing their love in ways that hetero-normative people do CONSTANTLY and everywhere and in movies and in books. and when books show something unusual its grooming, or is trying to trick some child into being trans... or its outright banned from schools ... etc.

thats where it gets funny, because if you ban any book, by almost any standard you have to ban the bible, because its likely in there... murder, rape, incest, graphical pornographic depictions of sex, animal cruelty, magic, demons, slavery, torture, child sex slavery, the bible has all these things and more.

the double standards are massive, and most people cant even see them. because a hetero-normative couple kissing infront of a cafe doesnt shock their senses, they dont even notice. but when it deviates even a little from the norm their tiny brains crack under the pressure of a misplaced penis.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28303140 - 05/02/23 07:36 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

Have you ever faked a different sexuality just to fit in?




My brother lives in Seattle and is a very liberal Democrat.  He rolls his eyes as he tells me about his 11-year-old daughter, who has a large group of friends who spend a lot of time talking about gender, sex, trans people, and pronouns. It's a constant source of interest to these kids (especially the constantly changing pronouns), and a significant part of daily conversations.  Some girls have decided they are homosexual and wear "Proud to Be Gay" shirts.




So are you an 11 year old girl or are your thoughts irrelevant?

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
In my life I don't have people telling me they are heterosexual.  I guess my friends and family don't feel the need to tell me stuff like that.

I've certainly never ever had a parent introduce me to their young 3 or 4 or 5 year old as being heterosexual.




Lol, yes you have. They do it constantly, it's so normal your brain doesn't even realize it.

For example, has one of those young 3, 4, or 5 year olds you seem to spend so much time with ever mentioned their mother? Because the word 'mother' is an expression of heterosexual gender identity.



Would the book "Mary has two mommies"(I may have the title wrong) be a story of heterosexual identity? Can't mother be ascribed to whoever the child feels is more motherly?




Well, that's an interesting situation. It's a book trying to use heterosexual identity signifiers to show the homosexual identity can exist as well. Saying that someone has "two mommies" is clearly alluding to homosexual identity, but it is framed in heterosexual terms (mommies) because those are so prevalent, so normalized within society, that even small children are very well acquainted with heterosexual gender identity. It is a good analogy because even a two year old knows about heterosexual social norms, from all the heterosexuality being shoved in their face from birth.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28303180 - 05/02/23 08:36 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Didn't miss any point. If homosexuality or any other sexuality was more prevalent, it would be reflected in the society itself. Can you point to a time in human history in which any other sexuality was more prevalent than heterosexuality?


--------------------
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Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
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And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (05/02/23 08:37 AM)


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28303220 - 05/02/23 09:18 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Well, the point that I was trying to make is that expressing sexual identity is not a problem for society, and sexual identity is an integral part of the media landscape, because it is an integral part of being a human.

The fact that the majority of sexual identity being pushed in society happens to align with the majority sexual identity is not surprising.

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about non-majority sexual identity being represented, while considering open expressions of majority sexual identity to be not only okay for children, but good and necessary.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos] * 4
    #28303248 - 05/02/23 09:48 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

It’s not about how people dress, who they love or have sex with.

It’s the changes to language, the changes in elementary school textbooks, public indecency, sexualization of children, unfair sporting advantages, etc...

There is a concerted effort to conflate the social impact with the identity crisis. Sexual identity was never public content, expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.

I’ve shared my own stories here but I have family members who had gender reaffirming hormones and surgeries only to regret it and become depressive. I have seen nudity and sexual acts celebrated IN PUBLIC, I have seen sexual ALL AGES drag performances tour the country, men in dresses enter female bathrooms at arcades, malls and other all ages venues. I have seen people assaulted and harassed for deadnaming and misgendering....

My acknowledgement of the social impact of this new and vile movement has nothing to do with my opinion on who you have sex with and who you see yourself as.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: NotSheekle]
    #28303262 - 05/02/23 10:00 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Oddly enough, I've had the exact opposite experience - so I guess my anecdotal experience cancels out your anecdotal experience.

Do you have anything more substantial to support your claims? Perhaps a peer reviewed study or two that examines this "new and vile movement" in a more objective light?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: NotSheekle] * 2
    #28303270 - 05/02/23 10:08 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

NotSheekle said:

It’s the changes to language, the changes in elementary school textbooks, public indecency, sexualization of children, unfair sporting advantages, etc...




change to language? dunno what you mean.
change to textbooks? they change every year
public indecency? please elaborate?
sexualization of children?  how does this relate at all to trans
unfair sporting advantages. your only point i think.

Quote:

NotSheekle said:
There is a concerted effort to conflate the social impact with the identity crisis. Sexual identity was never public content, expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.




an effort by whom? where? can you give an example from life, which actually happened and can be confirmed?


Quote:

NotSheekle said:
I’ve shared my own stories here but I have family members who had gender reaffirming hormones and surgeries only to regret it and become depressive.




correlation doesnt imply causation, depression is hard, and can be a confounding factor or just a seperate issue.

Quote:

NotSheekle said:
I have seen nudity and sexual acts celebrated IN PUBLIC, I have seen sexual ALL AGES drag performances tour the country, men in dresses enter female bathrooms at arcades, malls and other all ages venues. I have seen people assaulted and harassed for deadnaming and misgendering....




drag shows have been all ages since the 1920s, probably before...drag shows have been around for a long time, i went to the oldest camp in the world, it had a long history of men in drag... all of shakesphere's plays contained drag performances and all are considered to be all audiences and have been for ever.


Quote:

NotSheekle said:
My acknowledgement of the social impact of this new and vile movement has nothing to do with my opinion on who you have sex with and who you see yourself as.




uhm, it kinda does.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb] * 2
    #28303293 - 05/02/23 10:32 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

*A man and a woman aggressively make out at the end of every children's movie ever*

Conservatives: this is perfectly normal.

*A man and a man make out at the end of a movie*

Conservatives: why am I so hard?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: NotSheekle] * 1
    #28303295 - 05/02/23 10:32 AM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

NotSheekle said:
expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.





ok puritan.
:loldongs:

why should expressed sexuality be perverse or criminal? thats total horse shit. remember when elbows were taboo?

and if ur worried about sexualization of children im sure you find u-18 girls with ear piercings to be preserve and child abuse. correct?


Edited by mushboy (05/02/23 10:36 AM)


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28303753 - 05/02/23 04:26 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

You see the difference is it went from having fun playing dress-up to saying that trannys are literal women. Its not even in the same ballpark


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303779 - 05/02/23 04:46 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

What are you basing that assessment on? Because I'm aware of some neuroanatomical studies that suggest transgender people don't fit neatly within their assigned sex at birth.

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity
Quote:

That is, all transgender women included in this study were confirmed to be genetic males who had not undergone any gender-affirming hormone therapy. Thus, these transgender women have been subject to the influence of androgens and grown up (at least up until a certain age) in an environment that presumably treated them as males. The combination of male genes, androgens, and (to some degree) male upbringing should ordinarily be expected to result in a male-typical brain, making a female-typical brain anatomy extremely unlikely. Yet, the brain anatomy in the current sample of transgender women is shifted towards their gender identity[...]






Canada recently updated census practices to shift from a single question asking for 'sex' to two questions asking for 'gender' and 'sex at birth'. How do you view this change?


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28303788 - 05/02/23 04:50 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.



Yes I do feel the same way about heterosexual folks. If you do nothing but talk about how you tear pussy up all the time and you make your identity and personality as this guy who has tons and tons of sex I feel it's incredibly self absorbed and I wonder why you feel the need to talk about sex constantly. Again mentioning it sometimes is just fine, I even like hearing about it in certain cases but making sexuality your personality to me is insecurity personified


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #28303804 - 05/02/23 05:12 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up. Again, im all for people expressing themselves however they want as long they aren't impacting anybody, but identifying as a woman while being a biological male doesn't make you a woman. And the Canadian government shouldn't be normalizing it. This is how irresponsible and shitty the liberal government is. Instead of worrying about lowing the cost of living and improving the country,  they're more worried about pandering to minorities. You know how many redundant meetings they probably had, and how many people were paid to discuss and implement such a thing? It probably costed 100s of thousands of dollars and we dont get anything out of it. And it all for some transgenders could feel better and not have a nervous breakdown while filling out a piece of paper


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303823 - 05/02/23 05:33 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

:uhoh:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303836 - 05/02/23 05:50 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up.




Considering the general consensus among relevant experts is that gender-affirming care is both an important and beneficial aspect of transgender healthcare, what qualifies you to make this dissenting conclusion?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303840 - 05/02/23 05:55 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.



Yes I do feel the same way about heterosexual folks. If you do nothing but talk about how you tear pussy up all the time and you make your identity and personality as this guy who has tons and tons of sex I feel it's incredibly self absorbed and I wonder why you feel the need to talk about sex constantly. Again mentioning it sometimes is just fine, I even like hearing about it in certain cases but making sexuality your personality to me is insecurity personified




But are you concerned to the same extent? When you see a man and a woman kissing in public, do you call them out? Do you call the police? Do you agitate to criminalize such behavior?

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up. Again, im all for people expressing themselves however they want as long they aren't impacting anybody, but identifying as a woman while being a biological male doesn't make you a woman. And the Canadian government shouldn't be normalizing it. This is how irresponsible and shitty the liberal government is. Instead of worrying about lowing the cost of living and improving the country,  they're more worried about pandering to minorities. You know how many redundant meetings they probably had, and how many people were paid to discuss and implement such a thing? It probably costed 100s of thousands of dollars and we dont get anything out of it. And it all for some transgenders could feel better and not have a nervous breakdown while filling out a piece of paper




What if your brain is fucked up, and is the thing that needs to be changed?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28303843 - 05/02/23 05:56 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

one way or another, a person born with a penis saying they are a woman falls squarely under freedom of expression, suppression of that is anti-patriotic.

unfair sport advantage aside.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: mushboy]
    #28303854 - 05/02/23 06:01 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

NotSheekle said:
expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.





ok puritan.
:loldongs:

why should expressed sexuality be perverse or criminal? thats total horse shit. remember when elbows were taboo?

and if ur worried about sexualization of children im sure you find u-18 girls with ear piercings to be preserve and child abuse. correct?




You are talking to a person who posted an under 18 in the pics of someone hot pub thread...


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Ice9]
    #28303869 - 05/02/23 06:06 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

NotSheekle said:
expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.





ok puritan.
:loldongs:

why should expressed sexuality be perverse or criminal? thats total horse shit. remember when elbows were taboo?

and if ur worried about sexualization of children im sure you find u-18 girls with ear piercings to be preserve and child abuse. correct?




You are talking to a person who posted an under 18 in the pics of someone hot pub thread...




:girlofdisapproval:


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28303950 - 05/02/23 07:02 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.



Yes I do feel the same way about heterosexual folks. If you do nothing but talk about how you tear pussy up all the time and you make your identity and personality as this guy who has tons and tons of sex I feel it's incredibly self absorbed and I wonder why you feel the need to talk about sex constantly. Again mentioning it sometimes is just fine, I even like hearing about it in certain cases but making sexuality your personality to me is insecurity personified




But are you concerned to the same extent? When you see a man and a woman kissing in public, do you call them out? Do you call the police? Do you agitate to criminalize such behavior?

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up. Again, im all for people expressing themselves however they want as long they aren't impacting anybody, but identifying as a woman while being a biological male doesn't make you a woman. And the Canadian government shouldn't be normalizing it. This is how irresponsible and shitty the liberal government is. Instead of worrying about lowing the cost of living and improving the country,  they're more worried about pandering to minorities. You know how many redundant meetings they probably had, and how many people were paid to discuss and implement such a thing? It probably costed 100s of thousands of dollars and we dont get anything out of it. And it all for some transgenders could feel better and not have a nervous breakdown while filling out a piece of paper




What if your brain is fucked up, and is the thing that needs to be changed?




I never said I was concerned or that public displays of affection was wrong or any of that. I just don't like when they make who they're attracted to their whole identity and it's allll about sex with them. I merely said gay trans or straight I respect you more if you don't talk about sexuality or sex all the time. Whether you're talking about tearing up pussy or sucking dicks it doesn't matter if you make it your whole identity I think it's a sorry excuse for a personality. It's not even that common I just don't like when it does happen.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28303984 - 05/02/23 07:34 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

authoritarians love conformity.

freedom hates conformity.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28304003 - 05/02/23 07:44 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Remember that gay pride, as we know it, originated in a society where any expression of LGBTQ identity could have severe social and legal repercussions. It wasn't so much people building their entire identity around being queer, but more forcing the awareness that being queer was part of their identity from a society that preferred you just remain quiet.

We haven't completely outgrown this type of repression as a society - and for many people the ability to publicly acknowledge their queer identity is significant in a way that hetero people won't experience. It can be a period of self discovery where you are trying on all these new things outwardly; because it's all novel experiences for you, and you're trying to make up for two decades lost before reaching this point. Is it so surprising that some people may be consumed in the identity, even if only temporarily?

I've always seen queer pride as a natural response to a society repressive of LGBTQ identity - and I've always assumed it would wither away along with the repression. In a similar sense, I wonder what transgender identity would look like in a genderless society.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28304021 - 05/02/23 07:56 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Remember that gay pride, as we know it, originated in a society where any expression of LGBTQ identity could have severe social and legal repercussions. It wasn't so much people making their entire identity about being queer, but forcing the awareness that being queer was part of your identity in a society that preferred you remain quiet.

We haven't completely outgrown this type of repression as a society, and for many people the ability to publicly acknowledge their queer identity is significant in a way that hetero people won't experience. It can be a period of self discovery where you are trying on all these new things outwardly, because it's all novel experiences for you, and you're trying to make up for two decades of lost before reaching this point. Is it so surprising that some people may be consumed in the identity, even if only temporarily?

I've always seen queer pride as a natural response to a society repressive of LGBTQ idea - and I've always assumed it would wither away along with the repression. In a similar sense, I wonder what transgender identity would look like in a genderless society.



I do understand the history I get why it happens and gay pride is just fine by me. I have a friend that talks about his partner about as much as anyone would talk about their love life and i ask him questions just as if i were talking to a hetro male about his wife.

I'm totally cool with that but just on a being friends level if it's someone that doesn't even try and make things relatable and just constantly talks about their sexuality and sex acts themselves, I just don't like them as much as gay guys that I know are gay but they talk about relationships or sexuality about as anyone else does. It's not saying those people are any lesser. I just don't prefer to have them as friends.

I do get it though the reason they'd want to talk about it is because they're proud they've been in the closet for so long faced alot of discrimination and now they can be themselves but after a while I think talking about nothing else is deflecting from who they are which is a person that happens to be gay.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28304040 - 05/02/23 08:11 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

I would phrase it differently. Like... Some people base their identity off of drugs, still more base their identity off their work - I would just call them boring people or something - it's more to do with the one-dimensional character rather than any specific topic.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28304114 - 05/02/23 08:55 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I would phrase it differently. Like... Some people base their identity off of drugs, still more base their identity off their work - I would just call them boring people or something - it's more to do with the one-dimensional character rather than any specific topic.



Exactly. If it's someone super into to hunting and I'm not at all and all they can talk about is hunting and guns and politics related to hunting it's annoying. It really is a personality thing not a gay thing. It just happens that I've met a few gay men like that and it was not fun to hang out with them when that's what they're talking about.

That being said someone that just came out of the closet it's a big deal in your life so I don't mind it because it's what's going on in your life and it's exciting and you want to share it but one of the guys I'm talking about was openly gay since he was like 17 and a decade later that's still all he seemed to be able to talk about so I think he made it his identity to deflect from the fact that he wasn't a super interesting person.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28304143 - 05/02/23 09:14 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Reality. Again, im all for people living their lives and identifying however they want, as long as they aren't impacting anyone. My only contention is when they try to say that they're literally the opposite sex because of that of fact. With all due respect, what fucking cure requires that everyone else change their attitudes and habits? It's irresponsible to the patient and immoral to coerce society into living their lie.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28304146 - 05/02/23 09:16 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

You seem to be unable to distinguish between sex and gender.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28304185 - 05/02/23 09:39 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I never said I was concerned or that public displays of affection was wrong or any of that. I just don't like when they make who they're attracted to their whole identity and it's allll about sex with them. I merely said gay trans or straight I respect you more if you don't talk about sexuality or sex all the time. Whether you're talking about tearing up pussy or sucking dicks it doesn't matter if you make it your whole identity I think it's a sorry excuse for a personality. It's not even that common I just don't like when it does happen.




Well, what is identity? The little anarchist in me that shivas has logically proved does not exist says that identity has become commercialized. Identity used to be something you did. John the smith...smithed shit. Smelted? Jeremiah the Tailor was the guy to see for a new coat. Doug the Drunk was the guy you didn't trust, but someone took him home at the end of the night anyway. Bob the Brave went out and fought wolves for you.

Nowadays, identity is still somewhat what you do, as per your job, but jobs has become so demeaning, so rote, so depersonalizing...and there has been a newer and more exciting form of identity formation. See, when I buy a drink, I get to decide: am I the college stoner, visibly hungover/high and holding a monster? And I the worker with their cup of coffee? Am I the jogger with the water bottle? Do I cultivate a vibe of boujie athleisure with a green something or other, ideally with "smoothie" or "health" written on the side? Or, if I am the drunk, do I have the working man vibe of the bud light miller lite? The hipster IPA? The white girl wasted tequila? The wannabe James Bond of vodka martini? The "I did a fuckup and need to get wasted" whiskey?

I'm not just buying something at the store, I'm buying a lifestyle. What do the commercials say? Define You. with our brand. And it follows you. You look something up, and now you see it in ads. Self identification through conspicuous consumption is great. I mean, the kind of completely inconspicuous conspicuous consumption is, of course, the best. For example, what does a three button barrel cuff mean to you? This is some obscure knowledge, but it has, exactly once, put me in an advantageous position. The choices that people make define them. But now, instead of the choices being one of productive labor, the choices are of products.

Well, until the recession hits. Or the inflation. Either way, as the ability to consume is taken from the people who define themselves through consumption, they need the dopamine replaced somehow. Media consumption works. You find community wherever you can, because mickey mouse doesn't want to be your friend if you can't pay for disney+.

That community becomes your identity. You don't just smoke weed, you're now a stoner. You don't just vote republican or democrat, you are a republican or a democrat.

Some people find that community in LGBT spaces. Their first fully formed identity becomes...LGBT or whatever. Sometimes that is the identity that first forms. Because we cannot accept a person as they are. John? John who? John Smith, oh, okay, I see. And since certain people have found it advantageous to fragment society into bloodlines and Smith is simply your surname and not your occupation, what do you do, john smith? John smith is an assistant manager at walmart, eh? Solid, solid. Decent job, probably pulling a solid 80k in a big city.

John smith, an assistant manager at a local walmart, was killed earlier this evening in an apparent hit-and-run outside of...

That's all John ever was, an assistant manager at walmart. We don't see who he was as a person, because we do not know him as a person. We do not know what he though about, what he felt, what his concerns were, his identity was assistant manager at a walmart. We've all seen one of those. It's the guy in the blue vest that gets yelled at by karens in clickbait articles. Or maybe, it's the guy in the blue vest you yell at, if you are the karen.

Or maybe John smith was a karen. Or maybe John smith was a trans man and advocate. All we see is the identity they primarily presented to the world.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #28304319 - 05/03/23 01:44 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

I think I understand what you're saying kind of. Identity is fluid and "That community becomes your identity. You don't just smoke weed, you're now a stoner. You don't just vote republican or democrat, you are a republican or a democrat.

Some people find that community in LGBT spaces. Their first fully formed identity becomes...LGBT or whatever. Sometimes that is the identity that first forms. Because we cannot accept a person as they are. John? John who? John Smith, oh, okay, I see. And since certain people have found it advantageous to fragment society into bloodlines and Smith is simply your surname and not your occupation, what do you do, john smith? John smith is an assistant manager at walmart, eh? Solid, solid. Decent job, probably pulling a solid 80k in a big city."

But It's like Shiva said I don't like anyone with a one dimensional personality.

We all have a basic identity like I've been taking care of my dad for 15 years now so on the surface I have the identity of "caretaker" but I have other interests and dreams and hobbies and can talk about anything and everything.

For someone that always wants to talk about one subject especially if it's all about themselves or a cause of some sort I just really don't like that type of personality.  Now that I think about it I feel the same way about vegans that are all about being vegan and always telling you how much better you'll feel, how bad it is for the earth etc. It's not because of their belief or lifestyle it's just having that be the only dimension of your personality.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28304363 - 05/03/23 03:44 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

i guarantee that someone finds you just as annoying as you find those people.

thats called being different from others. and when you hate differences, thats called bigotry.

and when you are a bigot, you hate freedom

and hating freedom is anti-american.


its a whole lot easier to grow up and realize that we are ALL weirdos in our own way... and accept people for the weirdos we are... and thats why we have the bill of rights because of bigots.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28304888 - 05/03/23 12:33 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I think I understand what you're saying kind of. Identity is fluid and "That community becomes your identity. You don't just smoke weed, you're now a stoner. You don't just vote republican or democrat, you are a republican or a democrat.

Some people find that community in LGBT spaces. Their first fully formed identity becomes...LGBT or whatever. Sometimes that is the identity that first forms. Because we cannot accept a person as they are. John? John who? John Smith, oh, okay, I see. And since certain people have found it advantageous to fragment society into bloodlines and Smith is simply your surname and not your occupation, what do you do, john smith? John smith is an assistant manager at walmart, eh? Solid, solid. Decent job, probably pulling a solid 80k in a big city."

But It's like Shiva said I don't like anyone with a one dimensional personality.

We all have a basic identity like I've been taking care of my dad for 15 years now so on the surface I have the identity of "caretaker" but I have other interests and dreams and hobbies and can talk about anything and everything.

For someone that always wants to talk about one subject especially if it's all about themselves or a cause of some sort I just really don't like that type of personality.  Now that I think about it I feel the same way about vegans that are all about being vegan and always telling you how much better you'll feel, how bad it is for the earth etc. It's not because of their belief or lifestyle it's just having that be the only dimension of your personality.




Do you think that people who have a very singular identity should be criminalized?

Also, speaking of identity, you know that these anti-trans laws will be used to police appearance. A six foot biological woman built like a brick shithouse will automatically be assumed trans, as will short men that don't have adequate facial hair.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28304983 - 05/03/23 01:44 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

My old landlord once bragged to me about getting a blowjob in a Home Depot parking lot from a hot Filipina he met inside the store and  I'm not gonna lie, I automatically assumed trans.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28304989 - 05/03/23 01:49 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

When I got a blow job from a midget, it made my dick look much bigger when it was grabbed.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28305036 - 05/03/23 02:28 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
i guarantee that someone finds you just as annoying as you find those people.

thats called being different from others. and when you hate differences, thats called bigotry.

and when you are a bigot, you hate freedom

and hating freedom is anti-american.


its a whole lot easier to grow up and realize that we are ALL weirdos in our own way... and accept people for the weirdos we are... and thats why we have the bill of rights because of bigots.



I'm sure some people find me annoying too and if they didn't want to hang out with me they don't have to. But just stop with that bigot shit, I'm not a bigot because I don't like people with one dimensional personalities. I accept people no matter who they are but accepting and liking hanging out with them are 2 different things. I also don't like self proclaimed "alphas" because of their lack of personality, am I bigoted towards alphas. Or do I just not like them.

If you're suggesting I can't dislike SOME gay people based on their character I'd argue you really don't treat them equally.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28305119 - 05/03/23 03:34 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

It is very possible to be indiffernt to other people, and not hate or disrespect.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28305130 - 05/03/23 03:42 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

rxb said:
i guarantee that someone finds you just as annoying as you find those people.

thats called being different from others. and when you hate differences, thats called bigotry.

and when you are a bigot, you hate freedom

and hating freedom is anti-american.


its a whole lot easier to grow up and realize that we are ALL weirdos in our own way... and accept people for the weirdos we are... and thats why we have the bill of rights because of bigots.



I'm sure some people find me annoying too and if they didn't want to hang out with me they don't have to. But just stop with that bigot shit, I'm not a bigot because I don't like people with one dimensional personalities. I accept people no matter who they are but accepting and liking hanging out with them are 2 different things. I also don't like self proclaimed "alphas" because of their lack of personality, am I bigoted towards alphas. Or do I just not like them.

If you're suggesting I can't dislike SOME gay people based on their character I'd argue you really don't treat them equally.




at no point did i call you a bigot. if you felt some resemblance to what i said thats on you.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28305133 - 05/03/23 03:44 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

"thats called being different from others. and when you hate differences, thats called bigotry.

and when you are a bigot, you hate freedom

and hating freedom is anti-american."

You were strongly implying it


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28305139 - 05/03/23 03:49 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

those are just facts.

not facts that i feel apply to you specifically.. if you think they apply to you then maybe change your ways.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28305144 - 05/03/23 03:53 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Bigotry isn't necessarily founded on hate though.  There are plenty of bigots who are just ignorant.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Enlil]
    #28305150 - 05/03/23 03:56 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

but hating differences (what i said) is always bigotry, sometimes ignorance is just ignorance.

like im ignorant on many issues, but i dont think im bigoted on any.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28305151 - 05/03/23 03:58 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

But you also said that when you are a bigot, you hate freedom.  There are plenty of bigots who don't hate anyone.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28305157 - 05/03/23 04:02 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

It just seemed like you were saying because I don't like certain gay peoples personalities that I "hate their differences" and therefore I'm a bigot. If that's not what you meant thats fine.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Enlil]
    #28305160 - 05/03/23 04:04 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
But you also said that when you are a bigot, you hate freedom.  There are plenty of bigots who don't hate anyone.




being bigoted is hating the freedom to be whatever you are bigoted against... so my assessment is correct. what was the example you were thinking of?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28305170 - 05/03/23 04:07 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
It just seemed like you were saying because I don't like certain gay peoples personalities that I "hate their differences" and therefore I'm a bigot. If that's not what you meant thats fine.




no offense but i havent spent enough time thinking about you to even have a glimpse of an opinion on if you are or are not a bigot.

and frankly i dont think its my job to decide. unless you make it super in my face and ugly.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28305303 - 05/03/23 05:33 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
But you also said that when you are a bigot, you hate freedom.  There are plenty of bigots who don't hate anyone.




being bigoted is hating the freedom to be whatever you are bigoted against... so my assessment is correct. what was the example you were thinking of?



Someone who thinks black people are more likely to commit crime may be bigoted in that belief and still love freedom.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Enlil]
    #28305742 - 05/03/23 11:20 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

i suppose. not really the spirit of what i wrote but shrug.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28305776 - 05/04/23 12:15 AM (8 months, 20 days ago)

That was the problem with our interaction i truly didn't understand your point :lol:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28305985 - 05/04/23 07:03 AM (8 months, 20 days ago)

what i said was straight forward.

enlil isnt failing to understand me, nor does he think im wrong, he has a war on common usage because he likes to troll that way.

theres really nothing confusing about what i said.

his arguement was that there is a narrow case usage of the word where by he could dismantle my point by focusing on the other case usage.

he does this every day... with tons of people. it derails conversations and adds nothing to the debate.

its purely a disruptive trolling... you on the other hand want to make a pretty straight forward statement that wasnt about you, about you, and so you are upset about it.

not my problem.

bigots (outside of enlils one usage) very often hate the things they are bigoted against.... enlil is using bigoted as BIASED is used which softens the case and makes the statement less effective.

bigotry however, is OFTEN expressed as a form of hate. if a bigot hates black people, they hate the black persons right to BE black... thats a hatrid of freedom... it isnt confusing at all.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (05/04/23 07:14 AM)


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28307151 - 05/05/23 02:00 AM (8 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
what i said was straight forward.

enlil isnt failing to understand me, nor does he think im wrong, he has a war on common usage because he likes to troll that way.

theres really nothing confusing about what i said.

his arguement was that there is a narrow case usage of the word where by he could dismantle my point by focusing on the other case usage.

he does this every day... with tons of people. it derails conversations and adds nothing to the debate.

its purely a disruptive trolling... you on the other hand want to make a pretty straight forward statement that wasnt about you, about you, and so you are upset about it.

not my problem.

bigots (outside of enlils one usage) very often hate the things they are bigoted against.... enlil is using bigoted as BIASED is used which softens the case and makes the statement less effective.

bigotry however, is OFTEN expressed as a form of hate. if a bigot hates black people, they hate the black persons right to BE black... thats a hatrid of freedom... it isnt confusing at all.



All enlil did was weigh in on a conversation with something relevant to your argument and putting his opinion in. You didn't agree with his opinion yet you characterize him as "derailing every conversation and disruptive trolling". Do you believe that's fair?


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28307237 - 05/05/23 05:12 AM (8 months, 19 days ago)

try to stay on topic.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28318615 - 05/13/23 06:30 PM (8 months, 11 days ago)

Do y'all know what Haggards law is?

When I've previously talked about this topic it's usually boiled down to a concern for people under 16 having surgeries, hormone therapy or puberty blockers.

I've mentioned that surgeries are generally age restricted and that general surgeries like knee replacements or even having children have rates of regret several times higher than transition surgeries.

I think age limits for hormone therapy are debatable, and that the age at which puberty blockers can begin is also debatable.

With clarification that hormone therapy is the more intensive decision with more risk of irreversible changes, while puberty blockers may have less irreversible risks, but that their timing is important to consider.

Overall the population of trans people is a major minority, and although it's growing, I think that increased acceptance may have a role to play.

That said I still think it is a legitimate concern to want to bring up that some children may take interest in trans issues for popularity or peer association, but that it can generally be alienating to go through transitions. I say this without minimising the real cases of gender dysphoria that I believe there are plenty of wherein the individuals benefit greatly from support and/or medication.

Again though, not all support is medical, and creating a supportive community is sometimes all that is required for struggling youth.

I've heard some younger girls may also have concerns about facing modern beauty standards and the constant exposure to such media can have an influence on individual self esteem.

So while there are legitimate debates to be had about what age certain interventions are more appropriate is good to discuss, I don't think it's good to minimise trans issues, or to treat such proclivities as a defect.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: rxb]
    #28325207 - 05/18/23 05:30 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

In Korea, there are one bathroom for men and women  I was taking a piss and a girl walked right by me, going to a stall.

No big deal.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: starfire_xes]
    #28325375 - 05/18/23 07:42 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
In Korea, there are one bathroom for men and women  I was taking a piss and a girl walked right by me, going to a stall.

No big deal.




Agree
Not a big deal at all.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: loladoreen]
    #28325554 - 05/18/23 09:46 PM (8 months, 6 days ago)

I recently heard a good point that the people that would go into a girl's bathroom to rape a little girl would absolutely do that whether they are supposed to be able to use that bathroom or not. It's not like there's gaurds posted at bathrooms so if there's a little girl alone in a bathroom it's literally the exact same danger of getting sexually assualted whether the rapist was allowed in the bathroom or not .

And  if she were with someone she wouldn't be able to be raped or seen nude whether it's a trans women or just a male rapist because that person would blow the whistle in some way. The fear about letting trans women use bathrooms just seems completely manufactured to me.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 3
    #28325771 - 05/19/23 04:44 AM (8 months, 5 days ago)

Not to mention a large percentage of pedophiles are into boys as well. Where's the outrage at men using the same bathroom as boys?

It's all dumb


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: feevers]
    #28327970 - 05/20/23 07:00 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

There is no such thing as a gay adenda :shrug:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: sudly]
    #28327996 - 05/20/23 07:35 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
There is no such thing as a gay adenda :shrug:



I agree as far as gay people don't have an agenda. Some gay activists have an agenda because that's part of being an activist. The only real agenda I've seen is to try and be treated well, support lgbtq youth that already exists, not be baselessly called pedophiles anymore etc.

Some people actually believe all liberals are pedophiles little alone gay liberals and its used constantly to dehumanize both groups and get the right to really truly hate the left because it's good for politicians getting elected.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28328693 - 05/21/23 11:51 AM (8 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I recently heard a good point that the people that would go into a girl's bathroom to rape a little girl would absolutely do that whether they are supposed to be able to use that bathroom or not. It's not like there's gaurds posted at bathrooms so if there's a little girl alone in a bathroom it's literally the exact same danger of getting sexually assualted whether the rapist was allowed in the bathroom or not .

And  if she were with someone she wouldn't be able to be raped or seen nude whether it's a trans women or just a male rapist because that person would blow the whistle in some way. The fear about letting trans women use bathrooms just seems completely manufactured to me.




I agree with that.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28330209 - 05/22/23 04:11 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

I think the fear is that some weirdo is going to gain access to a nearby stall and jerk off to the sound of little girls peeing and he would be breaking no rules. There are after all men who dress as women purely for the purpose of sexual gratification and not because of gender dysphoria. It's paranoia and it's ridiculous.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kizzle]
    #28330358 - 05/22/23 06:24 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
I think the fear is that some weirdo is going to gain access to a nearby stall and jerk off to the sound of little girls peeing and he would be breaking no rules. There are after all men who dress as women purely for the purpose of sexual gratification and not because of gender dysphoria. It's paranoia and it's ridiculous.



You would be breaking rules masturbating in a public bathroom no matter what. What's to stop a man from just waiting until the bathrooms are empty and go in a stall ND stay there to jerk off? If they're in a stall you can't nessicarily tell whether they're allowed in the bathroom or not you just see feet. I just don't think it's a valid fear.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28330477 - 05/22/23 08:28 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

People bang in public toilets too, where's the uproar!


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Offlinemycot
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Registered: 05/31/06
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28330524 - 05/22/23 09:24 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

I haven't read thread but ;-

People bang in public ???


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