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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303779 - 05/02/23 04:46 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

What are you basing that assessment on? Because I'm aware of some neuroanatomical studies that suggest transgender people don't fit neatly within their assigned sex at birth.

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity
Quote:

That is, all transgender women included in this study were confirmed to be genetic males who had not undergone any gender-affirming hormone therapy. Thus, these transgender women have been subject to the influence of androgens and grown up (at least up until a certain age) in an environment that presumably treated them as males. The combination of male genes, androgens, and (to some degree) male upbringing should ordinarily be expected to result in a male-typical brain, making a female-typical brain anatomy extremely unlikely. Yet, the brain anatomy in the current sample of transgender women is shifted towards their gender identity[...]






Canada recently updated census practices to shift from a single question asking for 'sex' to two questions asking for 'gender' and 'sex at birth'. How do you view this change?


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28303788 - 05/02/23 04:50 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.



Yes I do feel the same way about heterosexual folks. If you do nothing but talk about how you tear pussy up all the time and you make your identity and personality as this guy who has tons and tons of sex I feel it's incredibly self absorbed and I wonder why you feel the need to talk about sex constantly. Again mentioning it sometimes is just fine, I even like hearing about it in certain cases but making sexuality your personality to me is insecurity personified


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #28303804 - 05/02/23 05:12 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up. Again, im all for people expressing themselves however they want as long they aren't impacting anybody, but identifying as a woman while being a biological male doesn't make you a woman. And the Canadian government shouldn't be normalizing it. This is how irresponsible and shitty the liberal government is. Instead of worrying about lowing the cost of living and improving the country,  they're more worried about pandering to minorities. You know how many redundant meetings they probably had, and how many people were paid to discuss and implement such a thing? It probably costed 100s of thousands of dollars and we dont get anything out of it. And it all for some transgenders could feel better and not have a nervous breakdown while filling out a piece of paper


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303823 - 05/02/23 05:33 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

:uhoh:


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303836 - 05/02/23 05:50 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up.




Considering the general consensus among relevant experts is that gender-affirming care is both an important and beneficial aspect of transgender healthcare, what qualifies you to make this dissenting conclusion?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28303840 - 05/02/23 05:55 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.



Yes I do feel the same way about heterosexual folks. If you do nothing but talk about how you tear pussy up all the time and you make your identity and personality as this guy who has tons and tons of sex I feel it's incredibly self absorbed and I wonder why you feel the need to talk about sex constantly. Again mentioning it sometimes is just fine, I even like hearing about it in certain cases but making sexuality your personality to me is insecurity personified




But are you concerned to the same extent? When you see a man and a woman kissing in public, do you call them out? Do you call the police? Do you agitate to criminalize such behavior?

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up. Again, im all for people expressing themselves however they want as long they aren't impacting anybody, but identifying as a woman while being a biological male doesn't make you a woman. And the Canadian government shouldn't be normalizing it. This is how irresponsible and shitty the liberal government is. Instead of worrying about lowing the cost of living and improving the country,  they're more worried about pandering to minorities. You know how many redundant meetings they probably had, and how many people were paid to discuss and implement such a thing? It probably costed 100s of thousands of dollars and we dont get anything out of it. And it all for some transgenders could feel better and not have a nervous breakdown while filling out a piece of paper




What if your brain is fucked up, and is the thing that needs to be changed?


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28303843 - 05/02/23 05:56 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

one way or another, a person born with a penis saying they are a woman falls squarely under freedom of expression, suppression of that is anti-patriotic.

unfair sport advantage aside.


--------------------
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[quote]Enlil said:
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OfflineIce9
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: mushboy]
    #28303854 - 05/02/23 06:01 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

NotSheekle said:
expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.





ok puritan.
:loldongs:

why should expressed sexuality be perverse or criminal? thats total horse shit. remember when elbows were taboo?

and if ur worried about sexualization of children im sure you find u-18 girls with ear piercings to be preserve and child abuse. correct?




You are talking to a person who posted an under 18 in the pics of someone hot pub thread...


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Ice9]
    #28303869 - 05/02/23 06:06 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

NotSheekle said:
expressing yourself sexually was always bound to the private domain, anybody who breached this was considered a pervert and criminal.





ok puritan.
:loldongs:

why should expressed sexuality be perverse or criminal? thats total horse shit. remember when elbows were taboo?

and if ur worried about sexualization of children im sure you find u-18 girls with ear piercings to be preserve and child abuse. correct?




You are talking to a person who posted an under 18 in the pics of someone hot pub thread...




:girlofdisapproval:


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos]
    #28303950 - 05/02/23 07:02 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah, but do you feel the same way about straight sexuality?

I'd say that a solid 50% of entertainment in general, including for children, is about the glorification of heterosexual identity. Hell, the entire plot of the majority of Disney movies are about heterosexual identity being the most powerful thing in the world. There are several entire movie genres about heterosexual identity overcoming adversity, as well as a heterosexual identity main side plot in the movies which are not entirely dedicated to heterosexual identity, and how the characters are very straight and very heterosexual.

As a matter of fact, it's usually weird when you *don't* have heterosexual identity shoved into your face when you see the movies. Like, movies without clear displays of heterosexual identity are normally called out for it. Ironically, movies are usually called out for a lack of obvious heavyhanded heterosexual identity by the kind of people that are very concerned about homosexual identity being "shoved" in their faces.



Yes I do feel the same way about heterosexual folks. If you do nothing but talk about how you tear pussy up all the time and you make your identity and personality as this guy who has tons and tons of sex I feel it's incredibly self absorbed and I wonder why you feel the need to talk about sex constantly. Again mentioning it sometimes is just fine, I even like hearing about it in certain cases but making sexuality your personality to me is insecurity personified




But are you concerned to the same extent? When you see a man and a woman kissing in public, do you call them out? Do you call the police? Do you agitate to criminalize such behavior?

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
The problem with transgender people though, is that its their brain that is the problem. Their bodies are perfectly fine, its just their brain is fucked up. Again, im all for people expressing themselves however they want as long they aren't impacting anybody, but identifying as a woman while being a biological male doesn't make you a woman. And the Canadian government shouldn't be normalizing it. This is how irresponsible and shitty the liberal government is. Instead of worrying about lowing the cost of living and improving the country,  they're more worried about pandering to minorities. You know how many redundant meetings they probably had, and how many people were paid to discuss and implement such a thing? It probably costed 100s of thousands of dollars and we dont get anything out of it. And it all for some transgenders could feel better and not have a nervous breakdown while filling out a piece of paper




What if your brain is fucked up, and is the thing that needs to be changed?




I never said I was concerned or that public displays of affection was wrong or any of that. I just don't like when they make who they're attracted to their whole identity and it's allll about sex with them. I merely said gay trans or straight I respect you more if you don't talk about sexuality or sex all the time. Whether you're talking about tearing up pussy or sucking dicks it doesn't matter if you make it your whole identity I think it's a sorry excuse for a personality. It's not even that common I just don't like when it does happen.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28303984 - 05/02/23 07:34 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

authoritarians love conformity.

freedom hates conformity.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28304003 - 05/02/23 07:44 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Remember that gay pride, as we know it, originated in a society where any expression of LGBTQ identity could have severe social and legal repercussions. It wasn't so much people building their entire identity around being queer, but more forcing the awareness that being queer was part of their identity from a society that preferred you just remain quiet.

We haven't completely outgrown this type of repression as a society - and for many people the ability to publicly acknowledge their queer identity is significant in a way that hetero people won't experience. It can be a period of self discovery where you are trying on all these new things outwardly; because it's all novel experiences for you, and you're trying to make up for two decades lost before reaching this point. Is it so surprising that some people may be consumed in the identity, even if only temporarily?

I've always seen queer pride as a natural response to a society repressive of LGBTQ identity - and I've always assumed it would wither away along with the repression. In a similar sense, I wonder what transgender identity would look like in a genderless society.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28304021 - 05/02/23 07:56 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Remember that gay pride, as we know it, originated in a society where any expression of LGBTQ identity could have severe social and legal repercussions. It wasn't so much people making their entire identity about being queer, but forcing the awareness that being queer was part of your identity in a society that preferred you remain quiet.

We haven't completely outgrown this type of repression as a society, and for many people the ability to publicly acknowledge their queer identity is significant in a way that hetero people won't experience. It can be a period of self discovery where you are trying on all these new things outwardly, because it's all novel experiences for you, and you're trying to make up for two decades of lost before reaching this point. Is it so surprising that some people may be consumed in the identity, even if only temporarily?

I've always seen queer pride as a natural response to a society repressive of LGBTQ idea - and I've always assumed it would wither away along with the repression. In a similar sense, I wonder what transgender identity would look like in a genderless society.



I do understand the history I get why it happens and gay pride is just fine by me. I have a friend that talks about his partner about as much as anyone would talk about their love life and i ask him questions just as if i were talking to a hetro male about his wife.

I'm totally cool with that but just on a being friends level if it's someone that doesn't even try and make things relatable and just constantly talks about their sexuality and sex acts themselves, I just don't like them as much as gay guys that I know are gay but they talk about relationships or sexuality about as anyone else does. It's not saying those people are any lesser. I just don't prefer to have them as friends.

I do get it though the reason they'd want to talk about it is because they're proud they've been in the closet for so long faced alot of discrimination and now they can be themselves but after a while I think talking about nothing else is deflecting from who they are which is a person that happens to be gay.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28304040 - 05/02/23 08:11 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

I would phrase it differently. Like... Some people base their identity off of drugs, still more base their identity off their work - I would just call them boring people or something - it's more to do with the one-dimensional character rather than any specific topic.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28304114 - 05/02/23 08:55 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I would phrase it differently. Like... Some people base their identity off of drugs, still more base their identity off their work - I would just call them boring people or something - it's more to do with the one-dimensional character rather than any specific topic.



Exactly. If it's someone super into to hunting and I'm not at all and all they can talk about is hunting and guns and politics related to hunting it's annoying. It really is a personality thing not a gay thing. It just happens that I've met a few gay men like that and it was not fun to hang out with them when that's what they're talking about.

That being said someone that just came out of the closet it's a big deal in your life so I don't mind it because it's what's going on in your life and it's exciting and you want to share it but one of the guys I'm talking about was openly gay since he was like 17 and a decade later that's still all he seemed to be able to talk about so I think he made it his identity to deflect from the fact that he wasn't a super interesting person.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28304143 - 05/02/23 09:14 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Reality. Again, im all for people living their lives and identifying however they want, as long as they aren't impacting anyone. My only contention is when they try to say that they're literally the opposite sex because of that of fact. With all due respect, what fucking cure requires that everyone else change their attitudes and habits? It's irresponsible to the patient and immoral to coerce society into living their lie.


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: MagicMush123]
    #28304146 - 05/02/23 09:16 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

You seem to be unable to distinguish between sex and gender.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #28304185 - 05/02/23 09:39 PM (8 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I never said I was concerned or that public displays of affection was wrong or any of that. I just don't like when they make who they're attracted to their whole identity and it's allll about sex with them. I merely said gay trans or straight I respect you more if you don't talk about sexuality or sex all the time. Whether you're talking about tearing up pussy or sucking dicks it doesn't matter if you make it your whole identity I think it's a sorry excuse for a personality. It's not even that common I just don't like when it does happen.




Well, what is identity? The little anarchist in me that shivas has logically proved does not exist says that identity has become commercialized. Identity used to be something you did. John the smith...smithed shit. Smelted? Jeremiah the Tailor was the guy to see for a new coat. Doug the Drunk was the guy you didn't trust, but someone took him home at the end of the night anyway. Bob the Brave went out and fought wolves for you.

Nowadays, identity is still somewhat what you do, as per your job, but jobs has become so demeaning, so rote, so depersonalizing...and there has been a newer and more exciting form of identity formation. See, when I buy a drink, I get to decide: am I the college stoner, visibly hungover/high and holding a monster? And I the worker with their cup of coffee? Am I the jogger with the water bottle? Do I cultivate a vibe of boujie athleisure with a green something or other, ideally with "smoothie" or "health" written on the side? Or, if I am the drunk, do I have the working man vibe of the bud light miller lite? The hipster IPA? The white girl wasted tequila? The wannabe James Bond of vodka martini? The "I did a fuckup and need to get wasted" whiskey?

I'm not just buying something at the store, I'm buying a lifestyle. What do the commercials say? Define You. with our brand. And it follows you. You look something up, and now you see it in ads. Self identification through conspicuous consumption is great. I mean, the kind of completely inconspicuous conspicuous consumption is, of course, the best. For example, what does a three button barrel cuff mean to you? This is some obscure knowledge, but it has, exactly once, put me in an advantageous position. The choices that people make define them. But now, instead of the choices being one of productive labor, the choices are of products.

Well, until the recession hits. Or the inflation. Either way, as the ability to consume is taken from the people who define themselves through consumption, they need the dopamine replaced somehow. Media consumption works. You find community wherever you can, because mickey mouse doesn't want to be your friend if you can't pay for disney+.

That community becomes your identity. You don't just smoke weed, you're now a stoner. You don't just vote republican or democrat, you are a republican or a democrat.

Some people find that community in LGBT spaces. Their first fully formed identity becomes...LGBT or whatever. Sometimes that is the identity that first forms. Because we cannot accept a person as they are. John? John who? John Smith, oh, okay, I see. And since certain people have found it advantageous to fragment society into bloodlines and Smith is simply your surname and not your occupation, what do you do, john smith? John smith is an assistant manager at walmart, eh? Solid, solid. Decent job, probably pulling a solid 80k in a big city.

John smith, an assistant manager at a local walmart, was killed earlier this evening in an apparent hit-and-run outside of...

That's all John ever was, an assistant manager at walmart. We don't see who he was as a person, because we do not know him as a person. We do not know what he though about, what he felt, what his concerns were, his identity was assistant manager at a walmart. We've all seen one of those. It's the guy in the blue vest that gets yelled at by karens in clickbait articles. Or maybe, it's the guy in the blue vest you yell at, if you are the karen.

Or maybe John smith was a karen. Or maybe John smith was a trans man and advocate. All we see is the identity they primarily presented to the world.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #28304319 - 05/03/23 01:44 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

I think I understand what you're saying kind of. Identity is fluid and "That community becomes your identity. You don't just smoke weed, you're now a stoner. You don't just vote republican or democrat, you are a republican or a democrat.

Some people find that community in LGBT spaces. Their first fully formed identity becomes...LGBT or whatever. Sometimes that is the identity that first forms. Because we cannot accept a person as they are. John? John who? John Smith, oh, okay, I see. And since certain people have found it advantageous to fragment society into bloodlines and Smith is simply your surname and not your occupation, what do you do, john smith? John smith is an assistant manager at walmart, eh? Solid, solid. Decent job, probably pulling a solid 80k in a big city."

But It's like Shiva said I don't like anyone with a one dimensional personality.

We all have a basic identity like I've been taking care of my dad for 15 years now so on the surface I have the identity of "caretaker" but I have other interests and dreams and hobbies and can talk about anything and everything.

For someone that always wants to talk about one subject especially if it's all about themselves or a cause of some sort I just really don't like that type of personality.  Now that I think about it I feel the same way about vegans that are all about being vegan and always telling you how much better you'll feel, how bad it is for the earth etc. It's not because of their belief or lifestyle it's just having that be the only dimension of your personality.


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Modest Mouse
Zappa
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That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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Re: Let's talk Trans issues and how people react to them (respectful) [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28304363 - 05/03/23 03:44 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

i guarantee that someone finds you just as annoying as you find those people.

thats called being different from others. and when you hate differences, thats called bigotry.

and when you are a bigot, you hate freedom

and hating freedom is anti-american.


its a whole lot easier to grow up and realize that we are ALL weirdos in our own way... and accept people for the weirdos we are... and thats why we have the bill of rights because of bigots.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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