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Offlinecozmyc
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: meehowski] * 1
    #28284504 - 04/18/23 09:08 PM (9 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

meehowski said:







Looks great! Love to see it. You can do either, I always heavy misted a couple days and the just kept things moist after that :thumbup:


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OfflineVr4_psych
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Hyebrid] * 1
    #28287607 - 04/21/23 04:36 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Vr4_psych said:
I'm having problems with a bulk not fruiting so have broken it up to fruit in a water tub like it's a cake. Will see what happens.





How long was it growing in bulk? What substrate/ratio? What method? Sometimes all it takes is a flush and you will be harvesting 7-8 days later.




PF tek to bulk, 1:1 coir. About 6 weeks IIRC. Fully colonised very quick, but I think I've had too much FAE/too low moisture/too low humidity but then compacted surface with heavy misting.


Edited by Vr4_psych (04/21/23 04:37 AM)


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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Vr4_psych] * 2
    #28287634 - 04/21/23 05:21 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Vr4_psych said:
Quote:

Vr4_psych said:
I'm having problems with a bulk not fruiting so have broken it up to fruit in a water tub like it's a cake. Will see what happens.





How long was it growing in bulk? What substrate/ratio? What method? Sometimes all it takes is a flush and you will be harvesting 7-8 days later.




PF tek to bulk, 1:1 coir. About 6 weeks IIRC. Fully colonised very quick, but I think I've had too much FAE/too low moisture/too low humidity but then compacted surface with heavy misting.




You can actually dunk those cakes and put them back in the tub. May be worth trying. They look very dry.


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OfflineVr4_psych
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: myc_ousin_vinny]
    #28287705 - 04/21/23 07:05 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Quote:

Vr4_psych said:
Quote:

Vr4_psych said:
I'm having problems with a bulk not fruiting so have broken it up to fruit in a water tub like it's a cake. Will see what happens.





How long was it growing in bulk? What substrate/ratio? What method? Sometimes all it takes is a flush and you will be harvesting 7-8 days later.





PF tek to bulk, 1:1 coir. About 6 weeks IIRC. Fully colonised very quick, but I think I've had too much FAE/too low moisture/too low humidity but then compacted surface with heavy misting.




You can actually dunk those cakes and put them back in the tub. May be worth trying. They look very dry.





Made the call earlier to do just this.  Definitely seems too dry.  24 hours?


Edited by Vr4_psych (04/21/23 07:05 AM)


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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Vr4_psych]
    #28288860 - 04/21/23 06:35 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Yeah, that might be a bit much but I’m actually not sure.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: myc_ousin_vinny] * 3
    #28289312 - 04/22/23 02:24 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

I'm happy to see growers are still finding this Tek as practical as it actually is, I'd just like to clear up something 'Essential' regarding fruiting conditions and how to create and maintain the glistening cake surfaces and to explain what went wrong if you happened to end up with very dry looking substrates that look lifeless (seen a number of those as well) :eatingout:



First thing's first: As I've mentioned countless times over the years, but there's actually just this ONE crucial thing that ALLOWS the tiny micro droplets to form in the first place and that thing is just: DAYS OLD NEWLY REGENERATED/FRESHLY GROWN OUT MYCELIUM. Why? Because healthy/actively growing mycelium has this hydrophobic property to it that allows microscopic droplets to both form on the myc surface on its own (under optimal conditions) and also when these droplets are being applied to fruiting substrates manually using a spray bottle then the droplets will remain intact on top of the myc for up to weeks at a time without EVER penetrstung the protective outer myc layer and NEVER soaking the cake/substrate itself.


So what does this have to do with dry cakes? It simply means that if your cakes surface AREN'T completely covered in newly newly regenerated myc (less than a week old or so) and if your cakes surfaces are these hard, spongy, smooth, flat-looking matted myc instead then (and I hate to say it) but you'll basically NEVER be able to recreate these preferable surface conditions no matter how hard you try. (because these conditions isn't something that can be 'willed' into existence by trying harder, you simply either HAVE freshly grown out healthy myc covering the cakes or you DON'T)



OBSERVE the droplets on these cakes (which obviously have been applied evenly with a spray bottle from high above) notice how the ONLY areas on the surface that ALLOW this micro climate (droplets) to form is FRESH HEALTHY MYCELIUM.


Zoom in on the pic to notice how the droplets ALWAYS form on the myc and NEVER on the coir itself.



REGARDLESS how many times per day I'd choose to mist my cakes, it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for water droplets to form on top of moist/hydrated coir since Coco coir is the exact OPPOSITE of 'hydrophobic'. Just as Vermiculite, coir will IMMEDIATELY absorb ALL OF THE WATER that it comes into contact with as long as its not overly hydrated or completely saturated. So in a way, the live myc AND the coir/verm have COMPLETELY OPPOSITE PROPERTIES when it comes to repelling OR absorbing Dihydrogen Monoxide (H20).


Hope this helps to elucidate what's actually going on with these droplets and why growers at times aren't able to recreate these conditions on their substrates NO MATTER how hard they keep trying. :takingnotes:


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OfflineYahra
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
    #28289313 - 04/22/23 02:30 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Thank you, very useful info.

Mush love

:loveheart:


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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
    #28289323 - 04/22/23 02:45 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Thank you for updating! Perfect timing as I'll be trying this very soon, got some cakes real close.

So, to obtain this fresh myc, is the best thing just to cover it with coir and hold off on misting until new myc pops out from under it?


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OfflineYahra
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Hysteria] * 1
    #28289326 - 04/22/23 02:51 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

I believe you have to fully close the lid in order to restrict FAE as much as possible.


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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Yahra]
    #28289331 - 04/22/23 02:57 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Thank you I was just re-reading that and saw that, too. So coated cakes in, close lid and LITFA until new myc comes out, hopefully in a couple days. Then mist and crack lid. Can't wait to try this.


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OfflineYahra
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Hysteria] * 1
    #28289334 - 04/22/23 03:01 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Me too! Got 8 cakes colonizing for 2 weeks now.

Hope they finish at the same time.

I'll roll them in verm, though. This should also work.

:awedance:


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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28289339 - 04/22/23 03:07 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Yahra said:
Me too! Got 8 cakes colonizing for 2 weeks now.

Hope they finish at the same time.

I'll roll them in verm, though. This should also work.

:awedance:





Nice, I was thinking about doing some of each since I have both verm and coir. I hope both of ours go well!


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: RickyBoBandy] * 1
    #28289342 - 04/22/23 03:12 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

RickyBoBandy said:




First time grower and im using an all in one bag, tried fruiting but it started bruising from drying out so followed advice to dunk and rolled and now trying again in water tub.

I dunked for 24 hrs then rolled in verm, its been a 6 days initially for the 2 days i kept the tub closed there was a lot of new fluffy white growth around the side over the verm layer but none on top, is the verm a bit too thick?

Since cracking the lid its not changed- i may be misting too much too and it doesnt look as fluffy as it did, i cant seem to get getting fine droplets dialled in i find it hard to see them.

Its at 67-70f in the tub, with an oil rad heating the room, the rh is 50% in the room.

Should i do something or just leave it alone with the lid cracked still?



The appearance and surface conditions of this cake is a text book example of what ALWAYS happens when the outer most layer of the cake that's supposed to be halfway or fully covered in fresh new growth insiead is BURIED and TRAPPED below the outer layer of coir or verm. Since the outer verm-layer clearly hasn't been adequately colonized (or if at all) then no matter how many times you mist and how meticulous you are about it, what will end up happening is that the vermiculite very quickly ends up COMPLETELY ABSORBING all of the droplets that land on top of it.



In case anyone has ever wondered why so many SGFC cakes (posted by first time growers) all have that unmistakable look of being TOO DRY and TOO WET at the same time, now you kind of have an idea. The once healthy and growing myc colony inside the cake is PERPETUALLY being impregnated and soaked by MORE AND MORE water constantly being added to the edges of the cake. And why do growers keep misting their vermiculite horror-pucks up to 6times per day? It's because the 'dead' outer verm layer (that isn't colonized by anything living and hydrophobic) will quickly dry out even if it sits on top of a well hydrated substrate. Vermiculite or Coir on its own will always quickly go from wet and soggy to completely dry depending on the surrounding climate and how often you add water to it.



As always this is in no way me 'kicking a dead horse' when I'm just objectively explsining how SGFC and vermiculite works, I don't even see a dead horse tbh all I see is the dust that's left behind of the long gone and dried out horse skeleton in the basement. So not really much here to dismantle imo :shrug:


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja] * 2
    #28289358 - 04/22/23 03:55 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Anyhow, what's really intriguing about these 'damaged' surface conditions is how easy these substrates are to repair quickly (usually within a week) so that they turn from looking dead to looking and performing as good as any good PF Cake (as long as the colony inside the fucked up blue Puck isn't clinically dead) (which it likely never is lol)


So to save these drying cakes with matted surfaces is as easy as scraping/shaving off a millimeter or two off the matted myc and then just coat in moist verm/coir once again and just let them sit in 99% Humidity 2-10 days and the colony will quickly explode back to life with rapid new growth, and then just remember to not introduce FAE until at least 50% or so of the verm layer is recolonized by rapid fresh new growth :thumbup:


Whenever I've experimented doing exactly this I've always noticed an abundance of pins after only 2-5 days back at increased FAE rates. The very few noobs that I've managed to talk into trying this have all managed to eventually fruit their heavily soked/dryed blue pucks.

And in case you become wary finding yourself 'abusing' the poor cake by scraping it and what not, just remember that you can't hurt or disrupt the myc growth more than you already are doing at basically every stage of growing mushrooms. So go in there get your hands dirty and don't feel bad for the cakes one bit. Y'all have seen the doughnuts correct? I've succesfully fruited between 50-100 doughnuts and they fruit the same as any other cake. The only reason why they resemble doughnuts is because I dug out all of the (uncolonized!!! centres) and in some cases even let the cakes finish colonizing INSIDE the Water Tub and outside of the colonizing jars.


This is what that process can look like:
Prematurely birthed cakes that are roughly 80-90% colonized rehydrating SAFELY



Later that same day I already notice the myc bouncing back and visibly regenerating.



Exactly 7 days later and most of not all of the uncolonized parts have been evenly filled out by rapid new growth, simultaneously demonstrating how effective and gentle the climate inside a Water Tub really is when you can not only fruit but also use as incubator for colonizing tiny substrates.




30C degrees warm is the damp air inside my Water Tubs and I've never heared or seen a complain by any of my cakes :bongload:



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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
    #28289396 - 04/22/23 05:01 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Very interesting about the scraping. I saw Tony from Fresh Cap's youtube video on PF TEK and he suggested optionally scraping the cakes after the dunk and before the roll as a potential way to improve yield. Never seen it mentioned on here, though.  Thanks again for all this info, this is great stuff!


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Hysteria]
    #28289427 - 04/22/23 06:01 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

By the time you harvest a tub full of shrooms it's likely that culture has been 'agitated' or completely disrupted/broken up several times over(when you consider shaking grain jars and spawning, but we don't usually look at it as 'disruption' at least not until we're forced to "scrape" a bunch of miserable looking cakes. But still from the colonies perspective its just business as usual :bongload:


Idk who Tony is what's going on with his cakes but if you have a fully colonized substrate that isn't fruiting due to extreme environmental abuse then scraping off or even just disrupting and agitating the hard, dead looking, leathery myc is often enough to stimulate rapid regeneration and pinning. :mushroom:


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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
    #28289436 - 04/22/23 06:17 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Mateja said:
By the time you harvest a tub full of shrooms it's likely that culture has been 'agitated' or completely disrupted/broken up several times over(when you consider shaking grain jars and spawning, but we don't usually look at it as 'disruption' at least not until we're forced to "scrape" a bunch of miserable looking cakes. But still from the colonies perspective its just business as usual :bongload:


Idk who Tony is what's going on with his cakes but if you have a fully colonized substrate that isn't fruiting due to extreme environmental abuse then scraping off or even just disrupting and agitating the hard, dead looking, leathery myc is often enough to stimulate rapid regeneration and pinning. :mushroom:




He's some dude that owns a mushroom company and he also does mushroom growing videos and podcasts on his channel. I think the channel is called freshcap mushrooms. I know youtube is a crappy source but some of his stuff looks legit and he actually mentions the shroomery as a great source for info.

Anyway, he does a 2 parter on the pf tek and does it pretty much like it's described here, but he fruits in a SGFC. But, he mentions an optional scrape with a fork before rolling in verm to stimulate myc growth. I was unsure of that advice because I've never seen it mentioned here, but it kinda aligns with what you're saying about how to revive a damaged cake, except he's doing it even with healthy cakes (optionally). The video is called "Start to finish pf tek for growing mushrooms at home". Not trying to promote it but your scraping comment brought it to mind.


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Hysteria] * 2
    #28289525 - 04/22/23 08:00 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Yep he's probably scraping cakes to compensate for the somewhat unfortunate  climate/environment in a SGFC or he just doesn't know how to create surface conditions manually with just the spray bottle. However you look at it if you're spending extra time and effort to needlessly stress and antagonize an otherwise healthy colony then you're essentially de-evolving the very basic skills which have been documented in countless threads here for the longest time. Scraping seems mostly like a crutch and it sounds very 2006 Shroomery :typing:


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: Mateja]
    #28289540 - 04/22/23 08:11 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Holy shit dude's alive :congrats:


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Re: Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28289554 - 04/22/23 08:21 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Holy shit dude's alive :congrats:



I know being "alive" sounds somewhat fancy and formal from a certainty point of view but honestly I feel more and more grateful for each year :bongload:


Also it seems like we have a brand new set of Sherrif's in town so congrats on the badge deputy police officer :hatsoff: well deserved if I remember correctly :clapping:


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Cakes inside Water Tub


Edited by Mateja (04/22/23 08:27 AM)


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