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OfflinePed
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The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election
    #2828897 - 06/25/04 06:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

OTTAWA -- (REUTERS) June 25th, 2004.  The Conservative Party of Canada announced today that the party will change it's identity a second time.  After the recent merger between the Canadian Alliance and the widely known "PC" (Progressive Conservative) party, Stephen Harper announced at today's election conference that the right-wing group would be known after the election as the "BDP", an ear-catching name Stephen Harper hopes will compete with Canada's fastest growing left-wing political party, the NDP (New Democratic Party).

When asked what the acronym represented, Conservative leader Stephen Harper's jowels began to froth, producing an overwhelmingly foul stench which caused several of our reporters to wretch violently, their innards corroding into a disgusting soup.  "The Black DEATH Party of Canada!" he said through clenched, blood-soaked fangs.  "We will turn your crops to POISON!  Your schools to DUNGEONS; your FAMILIES TO DUST!"  Several bystanders were injured when Mr. Harper's leathery wings exploded in a flurry of laughter and screeching obscenities.  It was not the first outburst of the sort to occur along Mr. Harper's campaign trail.  When asked why he insists on promoting the decay of Canadian society into one of hatred, greed, and rampant sex abuse, Mr. Harper's eyes rolled backward as he said "The Age of Darkness Descends.  Ave Satanas, Hail Satan, Hail Satan."

Despite his unorthodox and Satanic ways, however, Mr. Haper's Conservative party remains strong in these final days before the vote.

:tongue2:  :crazy2:

I'm surprised there has been no discussion about Canada's election here.  Did I miss something?  Let's talk about it!


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http://www.ndp.ca/

Edited by Ped (06/25/04 06:45 PM)

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OfflineJust a Punk
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2828902 - 06/25/04 06:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Hah!


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2829024 - 06/25/04 08:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Well, it looks like Harper might win. Alot of people think it has to do with his calm and collected public persona, where Paul Martin tends to fidget alot like George Tenet.

and the NDP, well they spend too much, and have no hope of winning. I like Jack Layton and the NDP, especially since his interview on Much Music when asked if he ever smoked pot, but right now their potential is influence in parliament. In an election that comes down to a possible Conservative government in Canada.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Zahid]
    #2829153 - 06/25/04 09:20 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

in a way, I hope Harper does win, for a few reasons.

1- if he does win, he will only have the support of maybe...20% of the voters.

2- this will galavanize all those opposed to his political policies

3- consequently, Canadians will be mobalized to get of their apathetic, comfortable asses and fight for what they believe in.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2829174 - 06/25/04 09:25 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

He could also do a lot of damage in the next 5 years (or however long he could hold onto being PM) :wink:

I've made up my mind at this point: I'm voting NDP.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2829209 - 06/25/04 09:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

aye, NDP for me too.


If the conservatives win a minority government it won't last long, so yeah. Not too much too fear hopefully.


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"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #2829239 - 06/25/04 09:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Id like to vote for the NDP but Layton has alot of dirty business and union ties, and the unions in Canada are beyond out of control. And the NDP are idiots when it comes to fiscal management.

Id like to vote for green, but their economic policies are beyond stupid.

the conservatives....no chance, of course.

So then it comes down to the liberals, who seem like the best choice all around. Im still undecided, right now its 50/50 NDP or Liberal.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2829592 - 06/26/04 12:46 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

IM going NDP.

i think that a conservative government will basically erase the broder and fuck every free or cheap public service. Did anyone actually watch them before this election? They are so pro bush its scary. Found it funny looking at the stats for vancouver island. When peopel voted out mulrony they all voted ndp here. The next election they went right back to reform, refom, alliance. Have we learned anything?

I cant stand canadas way of voting. Can anyone please vote for who you think can do the job? Seriously, how the fuck is voting for ANY party that looks like it will win just to get the party we currently hate out? Thats just fucking moronic, then we get a bunch of gordon campbells in and fuck us all over while we watch and bitch. The worst part is if any cared to take the time and read a little bit about these guys they would have known damn well what his agenda was. ARGG makes me so pissed to see peolep do that then bitch cause they dont like it. BAH!

Every vote does count, especially if you vote for someone who you think can do the job. Nuff of this protest voting bullshit.

i need a joint. God damnit!


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: kadakuda]
    #2829647 - 06/26/04 01:12 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

yeah go NDP they dont want us to put any more money into defense, and they support gay marriage.

Two rather trivial points, but overall i like their platform.

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2829703 - 06/26/04 01:52 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

ummm, actually they do want to increase defense spending. Which is a good thing.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2829729 - 06/26/04 02:24 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Yep. It's a good thing. There's no sense in spending any time or money on building a more compassionate society concerned with the benefit of the whole. What we really need are more guns, bigger business and lots more stuff to decorate my house.

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http://www.ndp.ca/

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2829848 - 06/26/04 03:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

so why the fuck are you voting NDP then???

-you are aware that they plan to increase military spending, yes?

god....I swear......this is the problem with democracy.

Edited by Positronius (06/26/04 04:27 AM)

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2829855 - 06/26/04 03:54 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

note the sarcasm. it was a crack at the conservs.

plus its really only a partial democracy. We only vote in the mouth peices for the people who have the real power. Get ur tin foil hats and raid the senate!!! YEEEHAAAA


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2830027 - 06/26/04 07:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Positronius writes:

Id like to vote for the NDP but Layton has alot of dirty business and union ties, and the unions in Canada are beyond out of control. And the NDP are idiots when it comes to fiscal management.

I see you are given to understatement.

A majority NDP government would be the most disastrous possible scenario for Canada. That poor sad sack of a country is still trying to make up for the destruction caused by the NDP holding the reigns of power in Ontario for five years in the Nineties.

Second worst-case scenario would be where the NDP and Liberals combined (doesn't matter which of them has more seats) outnumbered the Conservatives.

Best case scenario would be a Conservative majority government, but even then it must be remembered that the Conservative Party of Canada is several degrees to the left of US Democrats.

Even though I left Canada over sixteen years ago I have friends and family there, and I usually travel there (to Ottawa) in the spring and fall for three or four weeks at a stretch, so I do still care about Canada's future.

I don't know which parties are on the ballot in my old riding (Ottawa West) for this election, but if there weren't a Libertarian-style candidate on the ballot, I would do as I did when I still lived there -- I would tell the scrutineers "I decline to vote" and make certain this choice was properly recorded on the electoral sheet.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2830038 - 06/26/04 07:58 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Positronius writes:

3- consequently, Canadians will be mobalized to get of their apathetic, comfortable asses and fight for what they believe in.

Sadly, what far too many Canadians believe in is cradle-to-grave coddling, with the government in the role of Mommy-Daddy-Nanny-Santa Claus.

"Someone said something that offended me! Pass a law!"

"The company I worked for went bankrupt! Pay me not to work for the rest of my life!"

"The shop across the street from mine has their sign in English! Fine their ass or shut them down!"

"I have a cold, but when I went to the emergency room I had to wait four hours before someone looked after me for free! Raise taxes on the rich corporations so I only have to wait an hour next time!"

There is no hope for Canada.

pinky


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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2830366 - 06/26/04 10:21 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

>> you are aware that they plan to increase military spending, yes?

Nowhere in the NDP platform is it said that Jack Layton has plans to increase military spending. That is Stephen Harper's trip.

The NDP Platform is found here.


>> Best case scenario would be a Conservative majority government.

Brian Mulroney.


>> I have a cold, but when I went to the emergency room I had to wait four hours before someone looked after me for free!

There are people who've come into the Foothills Hospital (where I used to work as a volunteer) with broken limbs who have had to wait upwards of 10 hours to get treatment. People who are in vital need of CT or PET scans wait upwards of two years to gain access to those services. That's two years that cancer might be allowed to develop while the question of operability remains unanswered. You know how they say that our best chance with cancer is to catch it early?

Treatment is not free. There are health care premiums to be paid every month in Alberta. They can exceed upwards of $300 per month. Four of Calgary's twelve hospitals were torn down in the past decade beacuse of health care cuts. Often, sick people have to wait outside the building because the emergency room is filled to the parking lot. The health care problem in Canada is very real. Belittling the health care problem in Canada detracts from your credibility.

Stephen Harper wants to further reduce the federal contribution to public health care, while encouraging the formation of a private sector which will ensure that only the rich have access to quality medical services. Paul Martin wants to increase the federal share by a marginal 4% (up from the currently abhorrently low 16%), and he probably won't actually do it anyway.

The top issue in Canada's election this year is health care. One of the most pressing issues in the United States' upcoming two-party election has to do with whether or not the current president deceived the American people, and attempted to deceive the United Nations, so as to capitilize on an unnecessary, illegal war of malfeasance. Considering this, ask again: which nation is it that has "no hope"?

To be honest, I'd rather my country's politics be bogged down by silly, namby pamby issues like what language is printed on which signs. At least I don't have to worry about innocent civilians being burned alive in the process. As far as I know, the Liberal sponsorship scandal claimed the lives of no one. Stephen Harper, however, wants to train more young Canadians to be killers in America's ill-conceived wars.


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http://www.ndp.ca/

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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2830467 - 06/26/04 11:08 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Ped writes:

People who are in vital need of CT or PET scans wait upwards of two years to gain access to those services. That's two years that cancer might be allowed to develop while the question of operability remains unanswered. You know how they say that our best chance with cancer is to catch it early?

You make my point for me. Thank you.

I bumped an earlier thread about the election for your review. I won't repeat all the comments I made about socialized medicine in that thread in this one -- you can read the thread at your leisure.

The health care problem in Canada is very real.

No one knows that better than I. The point is that it is as atrocious as it is because it is socialized medicine. Health care is an issue far too important to entrust to government. Yet not a single Canadian political party wants to change it. They just want to charge even more for it.

Belittling the health care problem in Canada detracts from your credibility.

I don't belittle it, I point out the same thing that study after study has done for decades now. It is an abominable system that cannot be fixed because the underlying principle behind it is so deeply flawed that no amount of tinkering can possibly fix it.

Stephen Harper wants to further reduce the federal contribution to public health care, while encouraging the formation of a private sector which will ensure that only the rich have access to quality medical services.

Only the "rich"? How does one define "rich" in Canada? In a thread not all that long ago (titled "Happy Tax Freedom Day!", if I recall correctly) I pointed out that the average unmarried Canadian living in Ontario who earns the staggering sum of US$18,000 annually had his "tax freedom day" a few days ago this year -- June 24. When people making that little money pay over half their income to the government, it's no wonder there aren't enough people in Canada "rich" enough to pay for normal medical tests.

Look, every now and then I will visit a doctor on one of my frequent trips to Canada. I pay him for the visit, the same as any other visitor to Canada would. But what do I get for my money? At best, a rushed three minute "consultation" with seven other patients perched in other cubicles in his office waiting for his time. Some of those patients made their appointments months ahead of time.

Or, I can hop across the border to Syracuse, pick a physician's name almost at random out of the phone book, and for roughly twenty to thirty per cent more cash get a thorough exam, test results the next day, and at least fifteen minutes (and sometimes double that) of discussion and advice.

The top issue in Canada's election this year is health care.

Too bad none of those proposing "solutions" for the Canadian health care morass have the slightest grasp of the basic laws of economics.

To be honest, I'd rather my country's politics be bogged down by silly, namby pamby issues like what language is printed on which signs.

Why does it have to be either-or? I'll tell you why -- because the ingrained Canadian ethos for at least the last four decades has been that government knows best. Waaaaay too many Canadians are sheep, and Canadian politicians are their shearers.

pinky


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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2830931 - 06/26/04 01:17 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

>> It is an abominable system that cannot be fixed because the underlying principle behind it is so deeply flawed that no amount of tinkering can possibly fix it

I'm sorry for suggesting you were belittling the problem. What more do you understand about our health care system and it's problems? Why do you consider other systems. I'm interested in knowing your view a bit more deeply.

Thank you for bumping the other thread, btw.


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http://www.ndp.ca/

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2831176 - 06/26/04 03:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

from the NDP website:

- Jack Layton and Canada?s NDP say it?s time to recognize the world is changing and that the new world requires an investment in people, including Canadian Armed Forces personnel

- Supporting safe helicopters for the Canadian Armed Forces.

- Separating the Coast Guard from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, with increased funding to enforce international and national rules, but also to prevent drug interdiction and illegal immigration

-Increasing the salaries and improving housing for members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

-reallocating savings to invest in reserve and regular personnel and better training and equipment so that they can carry out Canada?s vital peacekeeping and peacemaking roles

-Ensuring Canada plays a leading role with like-minded nations in working for peace and justice in the Middle East

-Increasing security provisions at remote airports.

-Launching a full review of Canadian national defence to determine what armed forces for Canada in the 21st century should be and what resources are needed, balancing our traditional peacekeeping and peacemaking focus with the need to have a truly independent foreign policy.

----okay, ped, read between the lines, and...maybe you should have watched the debate. The NDP has said numerous times that they wish to increase military spending. ALL SOVERIEGN NATIONS NEED A MILITARY!!!!!

The NDP want Canada to be more soveriegn and independent from the US, which I agree with, this will require increased military spending.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2831196 - 06/26/04 03:37 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Some other points from the NDP platform which I particularly like:

-Cancelling offensive, expensive and unnecessary weapons systems for the Canadian Armed Forces, reducing the DND bureaucracy, and reallocating savings to invest in reserve and regular personnel and better training and equipment so that they can carry out Canada?s vital peacekeeping and peacemaking roles.

-Scrapping the draconian Anti-Terrorism Act, which has already impeded media freedom in Canada, and replacing it with legislation that respects civil liberties, ethnic communities and freedom of the press.

-Opposing the introduction of a national identity card, which endangers the privacy rights of every Canadian.

-Continuing work in multilateral arms reduction treaties to reduce and eventually eliminate chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, which are safe in no one?s hands.

-Firmly opposing any Canadian participation in the grossly expensive Star Wars missile defence scheme, which will result in the weaponizing of space and does nothing to protect us from terrorism, and promoting the proposed Space Preservation Treaty.

-Making peacekeeping and peacemaking operations under UN auspices the priority for Canadian Armed Forces operations overseas and working with similar nations to co-operate in organizations that take a holistic approach to security issues.

-Working with progressive legislators in other countries to replace undemocratic, corporate-driven trade deals like NAFTA and the WTO with agreements based on the principles of fair and equitable trade, which respect fair wages and working conditions, human rights, the environment and communities? right to develop in accordance with their values.

-Working to strengthen the United Nations and regional security bodies such as the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), as an alternative to the US-dominated bodies of NATO and NORAD, particularly in light of NATO?s refusal to renounce the first use of nuclear weapons and the likely location of Star Wars-NMD coordination at NORAD headquarters.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2831366 - 06/26/04 05:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

None of these speak about increasing military spending, just restructuring.  It cannot be argued that Jack Layton's ideas for the military are completely different from Stephen Harper's aim at "beefing up" the military to be a more (quote) "persuasive factor" (CTV) in world affairs.  That is what I was getting at.

>>  Cancelling offensive, expensive and unnecessary weapons systems for the Canadian Armed Forces   

:thumbup:


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http://www.ndp.ca/

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2831530 - 06/26/04 06:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

personally i dont think any majority government wil lbe good this round... none of them seem able to do much right. When there is a mix there is debate and more publicity. Therefor the stupid lazy canadians (ie most) who dont dd shit with politics can learn something. I like have opposition, adn lots of it. A 1 veiw country is definalty gonna reign chaos, in our society.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2831547 - 06/26/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Is there no party espousing Laissez-Faire/Libertarian consistent views in Canada?


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2831551 - 06/26/04 06:49 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)



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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2831609 - 06/26/04 07:21 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Appreciate it. Not the prettiest of websites and it doesn't appear they are particularly popular. Even so, the information on that site is excellent and they would have my vote and support were I canadian.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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InvisiblepB0t
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election *DELETED* [Re: Ped]
    #2834998 - 06/27/04 11:09 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by pB0t

Reason for deletion: .


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: pB0t]
    #2835235 - 06/28/04 12:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

one more sleep. During the whole thing onyl the ndp has got ahold of me to answer any q's or just shoot the shit about politics. I thought that was great, the mp(and volunteers) here have been calling everyone to do the same. normally i cant stand it when such groups call me and i get pretty pissed, but they were really polite and were just wondering if i had any concerns q's etc. Quite well done, even though i already decided ndp.

My cousins from edmonton were over visiting ( a very conservative family) and one of them is part of their party there. I now know why there are so many young people on board. they got to travel to different areas around the province and vacation when they are not meeting people and talking. Best part was they were reinburst for all expenses if they were students. Buy votes? worked on them. I seriously think they are getting some major $$ from down south to help their campaign.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: pB0t]
    #2835425 - 06/28/04 02:03 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"Go Conservatives! It's time to clean up the fiscal mess this country is in"

what fiscal mess would that be? a balanced budget? an annual surplus of 30 billion dollars?


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2836021 - 06/28/04 10:10 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

" an annual surplus of 30 billion dollars?"

what are you talking about? 30 Million would be nice, but 30 Billion? we aint paying off our debts in 3 years, sorry.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: kadakuda]
    #2836283 - 06/28/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

sorry, my mistake. We have an annual budget surplus of 3 to 4 billion. Look it up on google. We are doing very well financially.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2836498 - 06/28/04 12:58 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

ys so every year we have a couple billion extra. who sees it? its always managed to fuck off to thin air. we are told a bunch of nice stories but at the end of the day do we see any difference from yesterday? shitty attitude, but so far its all i have seen. which is probably why he/she said its a mess. i definatly dont want conservs in but if money is teh only thing we look at they are probably the best party, just probably wont have a very good system in most other aspects.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: kadakuda]
    #2836503 - 06/28/04 01:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

you can easily look up where its gone to, its not as if the liberals go on massive billion-dollar coke-binges, all the info is readily available.

Lots of it goes to pay off the debt, lots of it goes to third world aid, and the liberals have dedicated a massive infusion into the health care system for this year.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2836573 - 06/28/04 01:22 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

My ballot is in the box :smile:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2837337 - 06/28/04 06:45 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Results as of 9pm ET:

Party Elected Leading Total Vote Share
LIB 21 1 22 43.85%
CON 7 0 7 30.45%
NDP 3 0 3 22.28%
BQ 0 0 0 .00%
OTH 0 0 0 3.42%
Total seats: 308

You can follow along with live poll results at: http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/electionnight/


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisiblepB0t
I'm a teapot
Registered: 04/25/03
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election *DELETED* [Re: Positronius]
    #2837429 - 06/28/04 07:15 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by pB0t

Reason for deletion: .


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OfflineOnlyScarsRemain
...a millionlightreflections...

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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: pB0t]
    #2837510 - 06/28/04 07:51 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

So far it seems as though Canadians have made the best choice. Though I do hope that the NDP picks up more seats. Oh, and did anyone else catch the few moments (it was on CBC) where a Marxist-Leninist candidate was supposedly leading?


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"Abash'd the devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: OnlyScarsRemain]
    #2837514 - 06/28/04 07:53 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, and did anyone else catch the few moments (it was on CBC) where a Marxist-Leninist candidate was supposedly leading?

I did! They were only leading the count in one riding...but that was quite a site to see none the less :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineOnlyScarsRemain
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2837530 - 06/28/04 08:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Heh, and it was reported with quite the smirk.


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"Abash'd the devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: OnlyScarsRemain]
    #2837603 - 06/28/04 08:30 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think enough votes are in to call it: we've got a minority Liberal government. First time we've had a minority government in decades!


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineOnlyScarsRemain
...a millionlightreflections...

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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2837611 - 06/28/04 08:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Do you think that bodes well for the Canada's near-future? I'm not Canadian, but I'm quite interested in moving there in a couple of years (after I finish college in the US). Fortunately C-Span is covering the elections.


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"Abash'd the devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: OnlyScarsRemain]
    #2837665 - 06/28/04 08:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

i thikn it is. it is probably good to have a few conserves, althouhg i would liek to see more ndp as well. will be interesting, would to see at least a couple green seats as well.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: OnlyScarsRemain]
    #2837722 - 06/28/04 09:06 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Well it will severely restrict the power that any one party has in parliament. The ruling party (Liberals) will have to form a coalition of sorts with at least one other party in order to get any legilation passed. I think this should breed a lot more debate in parliament.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineOnlyScarsRemain
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2837903 - 06/28/04 10:28 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps the NDP will use the lack of a Liberal majority as a way to get more of their issues heard. Though as I'm currently watching, the Liberals and NDP only have an estimated 156 total seats... It'd be nice if they could hold on to at least 155 total.


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"Abash'd the devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."

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InvisiblepB0t
I'm a teapot
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election *DELETED* [Re: OnlyScarsRemain]
    #2837954 - 06/28/04 10:46 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by pB0t

Reason for deletion: .


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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2838039 - 06/28/04 11:11 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

>> Stupidest country ever.

Take it outside.

/me breathes a sigh of jointly-represented relief.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: pB0t]
    #2838417 - 06/29/04 01:06 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

we maybe stupid, but we are happy and relaxed.  inhale and enjoy the veiw my man. :blazed: :faded: :rastamon: :rotfl: :penis: :flowers: :wexican: :bong:

man this site has some funny damn smiley guys.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflineKasumeat
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: kadakuda]
    #2838553 - 06/29/04 02:16 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

The NDP losing their 20th seat was such a downer. I was really looking forward to a Liberal-NDP coalition. The NDP would have had real federal power for the first time ever, as far as I know. And after holding a predicted 28!

It's a long-shot, but I reeeeaaallly hope they somehow manage to steal a riding back on recounts.

Edited by Kasumeat (06/29/04 01:50 PM)

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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Kasumeat]
    #2839313 - 06/29/04 10:07 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, it was such a bummer getting up this morning and checking the outcomes and seeing that the NPD only got 19 seats.  It was looking like they'd pull down at least 23 when I went to bed!  :bored: :bored:
  At least Jack Leighton managed to get his seat.  Is it just me, or does he look like a pornstar with that mustache?  Hee hee...

PinkSharkMark said "A majority NDP government would be the most disastrous possible scenario for Canada.  That poor sad sack of a country is STILL trying to make up for the destruction caused by the NDP holding the reigns of power in Ontario for five years in the Nineies."

Right.  'Cause, y'know, Bob Rae and the provincal NDP not only masterminded the international economic recession, but did everything in their power to propigate that situation.  It was only when glorious ex-pro-golfer Mike Harris rode up to save the day that Ontario's finances were put back in order.  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wait, what's that you say?  The debt accumulated by the NDP during a Recession was relatively small compared to the debt the Conservatives (Harris and Eves) managed to rack up during the period of economic boom in the late nineties?  Oh, hmm.  Well maybe that changes things a little, eh?

But maybe not.  There's still this stereotype of left-of-centre parties being 'Bad for Money Stuff' and right-of-centre parties being 'Good for Money Stuff'.  There's two words that have already been said in an attempt to dispell this illusion, but I feel they can't be repeated often enough.  Brian Mulrooney.

But I'm happy, I voted for good old Alexa, and she got re-elected.  And voting NDP was strategic voting for me, I would normally have voted even further to the left.


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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Kasumeat]
    #2839630 - 06/29/04 11:40 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Losing that seat was depressing, but there is no reason to fret. Paul Martin and the Liberals still must answer to the voice of other leftists if they hope to accomplish any of their agendas in parliament. He will need support from the NDP, a party which has shown itself to be both robust and ballsy, and capable of keeping dodgy characters like Paul Martin backed into a corner.

That is, unless Mr. Martin wants to start kissing sovereigntist ass.

A lot can happen between now and the next federal election. This election has shown that there has been a radical shift in Canada's political mood between the previous election and now. There now seems to be an even split between the left and the right among this nation's citizens. You know what they say: Dinosaurs will die.

This election has revealed a new Canadian attitude: When you can't trust the Liberals, and you're downright scared of the Conservatives, vote NDP!

Progress, people! Progress!


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2839958 - 06/29/04 01:16 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Paul Martin was given one more chance by the Canadian electorate. He was put on probation if you will with a minority government as punishment for the AdScam scandal, when just before AdScam broke out, a record-breaking Liberal majority government was expected.

The Sun media outlet in my area is having a bad field day over the election result with today's paper having a big picture of Paul Martin on it with the header "Fear Factor,". Several columnists with the Sun have now accused Canadian voters of playing into the 'campaign of fear' that Paul Martin launched against Stephen Harper in a "better safe than sorry" tactic. In some sense it's true - I do believe Stephen Harper had a hidden agenda, which is why he changed his playing cards by acting calm and collected instead of passionate, and dodging every issue under the sun; abortion, gay marriage, you name it. In this case, when it came down to Paul Martin and Stephen Harper, Martin was the better of choices and Canadian voters saw that admist AdScam (which in retrospect in not that big of a deal) which is why Paul Martin is remaining as Prime Minister of Canada.

Things will be interesting though. We haven't had a government like this in decades.


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OfflineKasumeat
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2840079 - 06/29/04 01:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paul Martin and the Liberals still must answer to the voice of other leftists if they hope to accomplish any of their agendas in parliament.




I hope that this is the case. However, there is still the possibility that the Bloc, Conservatives, and NA party form a coalition to defeat the NDP and Liberals. What are the odds of this happening? Not good. The Bloc are leftists seperatists. The Tories are rightists who couldn't give a shit about Quebec. Cadman (the NA MP) is a right-wing extremist, but is less-than-happy with Harper's party.

However, that's assuming that there won't be a single dissenting Liberal or NDP MP, which is far from a given.

This is quite possibly the most interesting parliament in Canadian history.

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OfflinePed
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2840854 - 06/29/04 05:31 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Click Here and watch the video (Real Player needed). Wait until the segment about Gilles Duceppe and the Bloc. "We are confident enough to have our own country.." Oops! Hilarious!

Spooky.. looks like a bad omen.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Panoramix]
    #2840874 - 06/29/04 05:36 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Panoramix writes:

Right. 'Cause, y'know, Bob Rae and the provincal NDP not only masterminded the international economic recession, but did everything in their power to propigate that situation.

Ther was an international economic recession that lasted till 1995? First I've heard of it. There certainly wasn't one for Canada's largest trading partner.

There's still this stereotype of left-of-centre parties being 'Bad for Money Stuff' and right-of-centre parties being 'Good for Money Stuff'.

The stereotype exists because it's true. Canada's misfortune is that there are no "right-of-center" parties.

But I'm happy, I voted for good old Alexa, and she got re-elected.

Look up "barking moonbat" in the dictionary and you'll see a photo of Alexa McDonough.

And voting NDP was strategic voting for me, I would normally have voted even further to the left.

So that's why the Marxist-Leninist candidate couldn't hold onto his lead!

pinky


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2841336 - 06/29/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I think it's safe to say you and I are unlikely to agree on anything, PinkSharkMark.  But that's okay, 'cause I'm right. :smirk:

About the recession though...  It did last in all of it's glory until 1994 (here at least) and yes, the States does tend to get the on the economic upturns before Canada does, probably part of what having way more people and a more vibrant tech-sector (which was one of the sectors that played a major role in ending the Recession, no?) will do for you. 
Anyways, as far as the stereotypes regarding fiscal responsibility go, I've given a couple of examples of right-wing parties that haven't been so gifted when it comes to economic issues (Mulrooney, Harris, Bush II, Reagan, etc...).  Are you saying that these weren't right-wing governments?

"Canada's misfortune is that there are no 'right-of-centre' parties."  If you think the Conservatives aren't right-of-centre than your right-of-centre must come with its own jackboots and swaggerstick!  That's fine, you stay down there with your Republicrats and Demublicans and I'll stay up here with an actual, somewhat fuctional democracy.  I certainly hope your upcoming election goes better than the last one!  That's one thing you can love about the NDP, the lengths they've gone to in order to help 'fringe' parties get a more reasonable chance.  Because of them and the immense effort of the parties like the Green Party, the Marijuana Party, the Communist Party of Canada and such, a party only needs to recieve 4% of the popular vote in order to be considered an actual political party.  So the Green Party might not get shut out of the debates the next time 'round.  And that's not all!  That's right, this election your vote is considered a 2.00$ endorsement of the party you voted for!  One step closer to proportional representation and direct democracy.  :grin: :thumbup: :tongue2:


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Edited by Panoramix (06/29/04 08:55 PM)

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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Panoramix]
    #2842638 - 06/30/04 04:48 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Having "way more people" isn't the reason. The USSR had way more people. Also, of the ten countries in the world with the highest per capita income, only four have a population of more than a million people, and only one (the USA) has a population of more than 8 million. This would seem to indicate that having a large population is an impediment to prosperity.

Anyways, as far as the stereotypes regarding fiscal responsibility go, I've given a couple of examples of right-wing parties that haven't been so gifted when it comes to economic issues (Mulrooney, Harris, Bush II, Reagan, etc...). Are you saying that these weren't right-wing governments?

The US economy under Reagan (US version of right wing) was bad? If you say so. And no, Mulroney wasn't "right wing". He was the leader of the Canadian "Progressive Conservative" (only in Canada could such a contradictory name for a party exist -- oh, wait! I forgot about "Libertarian Socialist") party, which was slightly to the left of the US Democratic party.

I am not an American, nor do I live in America. I was born in Fort Churchill, Manitoba, and spent the first three and a half decades of my life in Canada. I've lived in seven out of the ten provinces as well as the Yukon and the North West Territories (before they were split and renamed) and visited the other three provinces. I have been living in the Dominican Republic for more than sixteen years now.

And I will concede that the whackiness of the NDP has been a factor in people looking for other alternatives to the Liberals and Conservatives. The Libs are corrupt and in thrall to Quebec, the Conservatives aren't conservative, and the NDP is full of loons and moonbats. Why not check out the Greens or Libertarians or the Marijuana party. Hell, why not check out even the Marxist-Leninist Party?

pinky


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2843641 - 06/30/04 01:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Me: "...It's safe to say you and I are unlikely to agree on anything..."

Pinky:  "Why not check out the Greens or Libertarians or the Marijuana party.  Hell, why not check out even the Marxist-Leninist Party?"

Way to put my foot in my mouth for me.  The Marijuana Party seems like it's a bit of a one-issue political movement more than a party to me, though.  And they seem kind of redundent when the leader of the NDP is calling marijuana a "wonderful drug" (or maybe he said "beautiful drug", I forget, but it was something along those lines) on national television.  'The wackiness of the NDP' is right, my friend.

Alright, the real reason I voted for Alexa was just so I could be on the winning side for once.  I grew up in Kingston, where Peter Miliken is the Liberal MP-for-Life, so getting to vote for someone I didn't disagree with (or rather, whose party I didn't disagree with on the vast majority of stuff) and having them win was such a tremondous thrill that I just couldn't resist.  Plus the only other parties on the ballot were the Conservatives (neo-fascists), the Liberals (corporate mouthpieces) or the Green Party.  And seeing as Green wasn't even remotely liable to win and the NDP pretends it will implement a lot of the Green Party's plans, I figured there was nothing to lose with voting NDP.  Plus, I voted Green provincially and it's always a good idea to mix these things up as often as you can.  :wink: :smirk: :smirk:


--------------------
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Edited by Panoramix (06/30/04 01:15 PM)

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OfflineKasumeat
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2845476 - 06/30/04 10:40 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:[T]he Conservatives aren't conservative.




Are you familiar with the same Conservative Party that I am? The one that was deserted by former Reform/Alliance MPs for being 'too right-wing'? The very same Reform/Alliance party that's to the right of the Republicans in the U.S.?

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