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thetruthsohelp
Stranger

Registered: 03/17/22
Posts: 363
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Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing 2
#28274771 - 04/12/23 05:09 PM (9 months, 11 days ago) |
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It occurred to me recently that as much as the psychadelic community loves to promote entheogens as deconditioning agents that will free you from whatever philosophical/theological/psychological traps you may have been conditioned with, whether through religious upbringing even down to advertising and consumerism, the reverse can actually be true also. These deconditioning agents can be weaponized as they do in fact leave you in a state of vulnerability to all kinds of subtle and not so subtle brainwashing by the powers that be or gurus and cults, radical leftist dogmas and new age depak chopra style propaganda artists.
When in a psychedelically induced state of vulnerability, we become very sensitive to our environment and very open in our minds perhaps to all kinds of external influences. Our logical faculties along with our usual filters can be inhibited.
There is a book I read a long time ago called Red Shambala about how the Soviets sent spies in India to learn techniques from meditation teachers and mystics in order to understand how to better brainwash the masses with their socialist propaganda.
This shit is very real and is why set and setting are so very important.
Anyways just wanted to put this out there for discussion. Do you think any of the new synaptic patterns and ways of thinking you have acquired via psycadelic could be a result of brainwashing?
Love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: thetruthsohelp]
#28274817 - 04/12/23 06:04 PM (9 months, 11 days ago) |
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I have to agree with you saying that "Our logical faculties along with our usual filters can be inhibited." however, I am not sure we have any built in logical faculties - indeed both our logical methods and our filter habits are cultural to begin with. At base all we have is associative mind with associative reflexes. But we do have the ability to slow down, relax, pause, reconsider, and getting stoned or emotional promotes a functional re-considering (extended resonance and ramified perceptive reflexes at least).
but yeah, since logic is cultural (except for math and physics etc.) cultural manipulations are what we need to become aware of and reconsider.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: thetruthsohelp]
#28275252 - 04/13/23 12:59 AM (9 months, 11 days ago) |
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I think psychedelics can open some people to the idea that the thoughts and experiences they have while tripping are originated not from themselves and their own thoughts, but something outside of themselves, and I think these interpretations have a tendency towards the supernatural, 'beyond' religion, and straight into spiritualism which I think has a lot of similarities but less emphasis on community and tithing.
Less praisal for money.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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jack_straw2208
Doctor



Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 3,115
Loc: Earth
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: sudly]
#28275288 - 04/13/23 02:03 AM (9 months, 11 days ago) |
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George Clinton says to be really careful about who you trip around.
Psychedelics are great for making our minds more impressionable, this can be used for healthy purposes, or for unhealthy purposes.
I generally prefer to trip alone.
-------------------- If you can’t tell what you desperately need, it’s probably sleep.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: sudly]
#28275464 - 04/13/23 06:53 AM (9 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I think psychedelics can open some people to the idea that the thoughts and experiences they have while tripping are originated not from themselves and their own thoughts, but something outside of themselves, and I think these interpretations have a tendency towards the supernatural, 'beyond' religion, and straight into spiritualism which I think has a lot of similarities but less emphasis on community and tithing.
Less praisal for money.
this is true, but some come away thinking they are god, or that god told them they are god, or that they have to sacrifice their beloved child so that god will love them more completely.
I am quite certain that our thoughts are our own even when very stoned, but yes, be careful about with whom you trip. bad thinking can be contagious, but it still is your own brain doing the thinking.
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thetruthsohelp
Stranger

Registered: 03/17/22
Posts: 363
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: redgreenvines]
#28276214 - 04/13/23 05:20 PM (9 months, 10 days ago) |
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This is the book I was refering to in the OP.
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Shambhala-Magic-Prophecy-Geopolitics/dp/0835608913
A very interesting read for anyone who is into this kind of thing.
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tekramrepus


Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Quote:
thetruthsohelp said: It occurred to me recently that as much as the psychadelic community loves to promote entheogens as deconditioning agents that will free you from whatever philosophical/theological/psychological traps you may have been conditioned with, whether through religious upbringing even down to advertising and consumerism, the reverse can actually be true also. These deconditioning agents can be weaponized as they do in fact leave you in a state of vulnerability to all kinds of subtle and not so subtle brainwashing by the powers that be or gurus and cults, radical leftist dogmas and new age depak chopra style propaganda artists.
When in a psychedelically induced state of vulnerability, we become very sensitive to our environment and very open in our minds perhaps to all kinds of external influences. Our logical faculties along with our usual filters can be inhibited.
There is a book I read a long time ago called Red Shambala about how the Soviets sent spies in India to learn techniques from meditation teachers and mystics in order to understand how to better brainwash the masses with their socialist propaganda.
This shit is very real and is why set and setting are so very important.
Anyways just wanted to put this out there for discussion. Do you think any of the new synaptic patterns and ways of thinking you have acquired via psycadelic could be a result of brainwashing?
Love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
Yes. Psychedelics, by their very nature, are a tool - and like any tool, they can be used for good, or for bad. A hammer can be used to build a house, or to break someone's skull open.
We already know our government, and other governments have studied psychedelics as a way to practice mind control, via MK Ultra. We know about Charles Manson. We know about cult leaders and how they sometimes use drugs, psychedelics included, to make people vulnerable and to get them to believe whatever.
Psychedelics on their own, do not inherently wash our minds clean. They are a TOOL - and so many people in western culture fail to understand this. If you don't UNDERSTAND the tool, how it really interacts with out bodies, and what purposes it serve.......then what are you really doing?
Its why I've always been sort of shocked by how many people in our culture will take psychedelics and go to a party, or whatever. I mean, I believe people should be free to do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt others....but that's like watching someone take a hammer and try to hammer out of the sharp parts of rocks they find on the ground. I mean.....it just doesn't make sense to me.
Even a young teenager, I've always seen and used psychedelics are plant medicine. I never took them to have a good time..... in fact, most trips were particularly rough on me, where I had to face lots of negativity, lots of turmoil..... if anything, the trips were more like work, and less like play. Not all, but some for sure.
Anyway, I'm rambling.... but yes I agree - its important that people learn what exactly psychedelics are, what we can do with them, and what ultimately they have to offer us.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: tekramrepus]
#28278603 - 04/15/23 08:41 AM (9 months, 9 days ago) |
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when you hammer out words like that you may run out of drywall.
I tend to think of, and respect psychedelics more like Medicine than a TOOL, and certainly more of a TOY than a TOOL, as we become more childlike when engaged with it, and have to engage our more playful side to benefit with any wisdom.
I do not think of psychedelic usage in the same way as going to a factory or construction job site where TOOLS would be useful and required.
I also do not think of myself as a TOOL, and since I am my brain+body, my body is not a TOOL and neither is my brain.
I Blame our consumer culture for making it easy to call so many intimate aspects of life TOOLS: Trucks, SUVs, microwaves, iPhones, EverReady bunnies...
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
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Re: Deconditioning Agents & Brainwashing [Re: redgreenvines]
#28281097 - 04/16/23 07:50 PM (9 months, 7 days ago) |
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A tool to see deeper into your brain?
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