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Offlinerxb
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info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale
    #28280133 - 04/16/23 07:37 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

so, i am curious about methodologies for determining the mg/g of alkaloid content with some reasonably amateur level equipment.

i mean, i really dont know much about the methods currently being used at all, but if a mycologist wanted to isolate a really potent strain and didnt want to bioassay each sample, are there cost effective ways to establish a general level of each alkaloid and their precursors.

my assumption has always been that people do this work with a mass spectrometer but i never asked until today. i could probably find a reasonably priced mass spec on ebay, but if there is a cheap/dirty way to approximate the active content of a sample, i´d like to educate myself on the various methods available.

thanks in advance for any and all input :smile:


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinekuman30
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: rxb]
    #28280148 - 04/16/23 07:51 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Well my experience is from graduating with a degree in Chemistry once you leave university and are not actively in the program having access to the organic chemistry lab, there is no more mass spectrometry in your future.

As much as I would love to tell you there is any easy way to do what you are asking.. there isn't.  This is all big money stuff.
I don't want to bum you out, but I will let other people try and give you more hopeful news, but I'm doubtful it exists.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: kuman30]
    #28280173 - 04/16/23 08:15 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

i mean i wont be too bummed, im just thinking i have some money to invest, and this is an area i havent really plunged into, and it doesnt hurt to ask, if there is a, somewhat reasonable methodology, it will make me a better mycologist.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinekuman30
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: rxb]
    #28280193 - 04/16/23 08:26 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Money to invest in a mass spectrometer.. what like from the 80's that you are going to inject solution into with a glass syringe?  Even that sounds like a huge investment and are you sure the data it gives you is going to be helpful for what you are trying to assess?  It sounds like an enormous risk to me.. I understand you want to be great at what you do, but it sounds like a small misstep in purchasing is going to waste thousands if you even slightly misunderstand the accuracy in which these tools will measure exactly what you intend them to.

I seriously wouldn't even consider it unless you talked to an expert's expert type of person on the machinery and the parameters on what it measured and being completely honest with them about what you are trying to do.  Maybe you are rich and throwing a way a couple thousand you can bounce back from, but I find the prospect kind of scary from my perspective.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: kuman30]
    #28280201 - 04/16/23 08:32 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

kuman30 said:
Money to invest in a mass spectrometer.. what like from the 80's that you are going to inject solution into with a glass syringe?  Even that sounds like a huge investment and are you sure the data it gives you is going to be helpful for what you are trying to assess?  It sounds like an enormous risk to me.. I understand you want to be great at what you do, but it sounds like a small misstep in purchasing is going to waste thousands if you even slightly misunderstand the accuracy in which these tools will measure exactly what you intend them to.

I seriously wouldn't even consider it unless you talked to an expert's expert type of person on the machinery and the parameters on what it measured and being completely honest with them about what you are trying to do.  Maybe you are rich and throwing a way a couple thousand you can bounce back from, but I find the prospect kind of scary from my perspective.




well see, you are assuming that the only methodolgy is mass spec... which i also have assumed (as stated above) but what i asked about was ALL possible methodologies (because im aware that i dont know everything).

money to invest... probably in the neighborhood of $5k could go upwards of $10k if i need to, not specifically for a mass spec... but into equipment that might be useful if there is a methodology other than mass spec... which there may not be... do you understand now? im not sure how to be more clear.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinekuman30
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: rxb]
    #28280215 - 04/16/23 08:43 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

No, no.. I'm not saying that exactly.  What I am saying is that  you could very easily end up purchasing something expensive that may not be of any use to you. 

You are way more baller than I imagined though with these numbers you just threw out, but even still.. I graduated with a chem degree I got a minor in Biology and was in a graduate chemistry program.. and I'm not saying that like I'm super cool and smart.  I'm saying that like even if I had access to all the professors and everything right now I don't believe I could even cobble them all together and come up with a solution to what you're asking if I had all the great minds in front of me.

There just aren't that many people who know what they are doing or care enough to find out on your behalf.  So I'd be scared to even put forward a plan of action because there just aren't enough smart people to help you do what you are asking, and they really don't care enough either.  I am trying to think through this with you here, and I just see waste of money every step of the way no matter what.  That's all.


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Offlinekuman30
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: kuman30]
    #28280228 - 04/16/23 08:55 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Really, I don't want to discourage.. but the smartest people I know who would know the answers to these things.. just don't use their mind power for maximizing the potency of drugs.. this stuff doesn't even cross their minds, even though they would be the ones to know how to do what you are asking. The most brilliant people I have ever known are bafflingly simple as well.


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Offlinethetryptkeeper
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: kuman30]
    #28280243 - 04/16/23 09:09 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

This will be right up your alley

https://shop.miraculix-lab.de/mir_en/psilo-qtest-multiple-applications.html

You can find em domestic as well


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Spread the Love and Light as far as you can


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Offlinerxb
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: thetryptkeeper]
    #28280246 - 04/16/23 09:13 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

thetryptkeeper said:
This will be right up your alley

https://shop.miraculix-lab.de/mir_en/psilo-qtest-multiple-applications.html

You can find em domestic as well




this is interesting thank you i will look into it thank you :smile:

im wondering what the contests use to determine levels of alkaloids.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflinePluviophile
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: kuman30]
    #28280247 - 04/16/23 09:14 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)



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OfflinePluviophile
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: Pluviophile]
    #28280250 - 04/16/23 09:17 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Also a member here has tested and posted results using these test.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=27962575&page=0&vc=#27962575


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Offlinerxb
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: Pluviophile]
    #28280493 - 04/16/23 12:25 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

yeah those look really intriguing for my purposes, cheap as hell too. from the posts it looks  pretty reliable.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerxb
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Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 9,482
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Last seen: 4 hours, 12 minutes
Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: rxb]
    #28281555 - 04/17/23 05:03 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

so whats inbetween hplc and the kit above, anything?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineherbstation
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Registered: 01/05/23
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: rxb]
    #28281718 - 04/17/23 08:10 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Theoretically you could send 1 sample to a lab to have it tested and then refine an extraction process. If you could get your % yield to be the same between multiple batches then you could use the % yield of product to estimate the potency by cross referencing with the mass spec result from the lab.

Not sure if you could get the yield consistent enough for that to work though, that might also be a time/money sink. Is there a good way to crystallize psilocybin?


--------------------
Expanding my mind until I can join the collective


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Invisiblehermitic
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Registered: 04/17/23
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Re: info request: alkaloid level analysis for isolation purposes on a small lab scale [Re: herbstation]
    #28283538 - 04/18/23 10:28 AM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Here are some details on how it's done in the Psilocybin Cup. Might want to reach out to Hyphae to get more details/suggestions on equipment. HPLC stuff is really expensive, though, even used, and I unfortunately haven't seen any cheap DIY setups.


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