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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Cuba [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28283213 - 04/18/23 06:01 AM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Nah man it’s because communism is evil.

Just because they’re a tiny island that can only really grow sugar as a cash crop existing under an economic blockade doesn’t mean they should be struggling.

Just look up how well the average person was doing under the pro freedom, pro capitalism Batista regime before Fidel’s revolution. Sure, a lot of them were illiterate slaves, but they could have worked their way up to plantation-owning aristocrat if they put their minds to it.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Cuba [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28283223 - 04/18/23 06:15 AM (9 months, 5 days ago)

:canthelpbutlaugh:


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Offline336
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Re: Cuba [Re: rxb]
    #28283723 - 04/18/23 12:48 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
i wouldnt put alot of credit into videos showing poor conditions in cuba, the people that make them ALSO have agendas.

poverty exists everywhere, you could take video of the USA that looks worse in any state.

that isnt to say that cuba is doing great, just that the camera only films what its pointed at take a camera to mississippi or texas and you can see abject poverty and starvation too, it doesnt mean anything about the situation as a whole.

across from nathans famous original coney island spot, 10 years ago were buildings which were in HORRIBLE shape being squatted in by homeless, looking worse than those buildings in cuba in many cases, we have laws against that kind of stuff and city ordinances against letting buildings get like that, but none the less they were in really rough shape, across from an iconic landmark in the capital of the world.

i think sometimes people put blinders on to stuff like this. i used to seek out old abandoned building to photograph models in, i liked the contrast of a young beautiful nearly naked (sometimes very naked) fresh faced beauty queen against the backdrop of urban decay, what you learn is that its easy to find the decay, and frankly its easy to find the beauty too.



Did you watch the video? I'm not sure the person has an agenda. And like I said it appears there are rich areas and tourist areas that are good, but from what I hear the majority of the country is in poverty and is falling apart. Not to say that is the fault of communism, but that it is the fault of a greedy and incapable dictatorship.


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"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Offline336
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Re: Cuba [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28283726 - 04/18/23 12:50 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Nah man it’s because communism is evil.

Just because they’re a tiny island that can only really grow sugar as a cash crop existing under an economic blockade doesn’t mean they should be struggling.

Just look up how well the average person was doing under the pro freedom, pro capitalism Batista regime before Fidel’s revolution. Sure, a lot of them were illiterate slaves, but they could have worked their way up to plantation-owning aristocrat if they put their minds to it.



From what I understand Cuba actually trades with every nation except the USA.

That said, I don't think Communism is evil, however, it does make it very easy for corrupt people to establish authoritarian dictatorships. I mean when you give the government supreme authority that's not too surprising really. Sadly most people seem incapable of being righteous. If Communism or a form of Communism was actually carried about by righteous people that held to the values of equality things might be different.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Cuba [Re: 336] * 1
    #28283754 - 04/18/23 01:07 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Nah man it’s because communism is evil.

Just because they’re a tiny island that can only really grow sugar as a cash crop existing under an economic blockade doesn’t mean they should be struggling.

Just look up how well the average person was doing under the pro freedom, pro capitalism Batista regime before Fidel’s revolution. Sure, a lot of them were illiterate slaves, but they could have worked their way up to plantation-owning aristocrat if they put their minds to it.



From what I understand Cuba actually trades with every nation except the USA.

That said, I don't think Communism is evil, however, it does make it very easy for corrupt people to establish authoritarian dictatorships. I mean when you give the government supreme authority that's not too surprising really. Sadly most people seem incapable of being righteous. If Communism or a form of Communism was actually carried about by righteous people that held to the values of equality things might be different.




Cuba can’t really trade with anyone because economic sanctions means any business that, say, France does will be money that can’t access the US financial system. This is why the BRICS alliance are working on building alternative financial systems.

Iran is another example. US has sanctions, Europe doesnt, but Europe isn’t going to ostracize themselves from Wall St by trading with Iran so they don’t.


It’s kinda like how the legal marijuana industry still can’t really flourish because the federal illegality means they’re virtually off limits to banks.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Cuba [Re: 336]
    #28283795 - 04/18/23 01:32 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

rxb said:
i wouldnt put alot of credit into videos showing poor conditions in cuba, the people that make them ALSO have agendas.

poverty exists everywhere, you could take video of the USA that looks worse in any state.

that isnt to say that cuba is doing great, just that the camera only films what its pointed at take a camera to mississippi or texas and you can see abject poverty and starvation too, it doesnt mean anything about the situation as a whole.

across from nathans famous original coney island spot, 10 years ago were buildings which were in HORRIBLE shape being squatted in by homeless, looking worse than those buildings in cuba in many cases, we have laws against that kind of stuff and city ordinances against letting buildings get like that, but none the less they were in really rough shape, across from an iconic landmark in the capital of the world.

i think sometimes people put blinders on to stuff like this. i used to seek out old abandoned building to photograph models in, i liked the contrast of a young beautiful nearly naked (sometimes very naked) fresh faced beauty queen against the backdrop of urban decay, what you learn is that its easy to find the decay, and frankly its easy to find the beauty too.



Did you watch the video? I'm not sure the person has an agenda. And like I said it appears there are rich areas and tourist areas that are good, but from what I hear the majority of the country is in poverty and is falling apart. Not to say that is the fault of communism, but that it is the fault of a greedy and incapable dictatorship.




not only did i watch that one, but i have watched others, and i have talked to people who are from cuba and people who used to be from cuba, the gist is the delapidated buildings are off limits, but people use them anyhow, some of cuba is nice, some is dilapidated and alot of it is farm land. some people like living there some people dont. you cant make assumptions based off of one view from one camera. theres good and theres bad.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offline336
menehune


Registered: 09/01/22
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Re: Cuba [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28283798 - 04/18/23 01:36 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Cuba can’t really trade with anyone because economic sanctions means any business that, say, France does will be money that can’t access the US financial system. This is why the BRICS alliance are working on building alternative financial systems.

Iran is another example. US has sanctions, Europe doesnt, but Europe isn’t going to ostracize themselves from Wall St by trading with Iran so they don’t.


It’s kinda like how the legal marijuana industry still can’t really flourish because the federal illegality means they’re virtually off limits to banks.



I hear you, but if I'm not mistaken "Cuba’s main trading partners include Venezuela, China, Spain, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and the Netherlands."

So it's not like they are as blockaded as some make them out to be. I personally blame the regime. As do many in Cuba from what I hear. I'd love Cuba to be a Communist Utopia, but sadly the military dictatorship seems to have allowed greed and corruption to bind them. Having a relative (kind of, I mean he is far removed) as the top general it would make me extremely proud for Cuba to be successful, and no doubt we cannot deny that US intervention is stifling the potential of Cuba, but even if that was not the case I fear the dictatorship would still ruin the true ideal of equality that Communism is supposed to exemplify.


--------------------
"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Cuba [Re: 336]
    #28283801 - 04/18/23 01:39 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

greed always seems to be the problem, regardless of the ism. comunism, socialism, capitalism....its always greed that fucks it up


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offline336
menehune


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Re: Cuba [Re: rxb]
    #28283802 - 04/18/23 01:39 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
not only did i watch that one, but i have watched others, and i have talked to people who are from cuba and people who used to be from cuba, the gist is the delapidated buildings are off limits, but people use them anyhow, some of cuba is nice, some is dilapidated and alot of it is farm land. some people like living there some people dont. you cant make assumptions based off of one view from one camera. theres good and theres bad.



True enough, still from what I saw in the video of Havana it's clear that Cuba is far from the Communist Utopia it could be. That said if I lived there I'd likely be living in a rural area similar to where I live now in Hawaii, albeit with less tech and internet access, etc.

Something interesting I did notice, despite how run down and trash covered Havana appears, everyone had clean clothes that looked brand new. That was kind of surprising to see. People here in Hawaii look dirtier than they do. lol

I guess when your city is falling apart and the dirty as fuck the only thing you can control is your own appearance so they take extra care to make themselves look good.


--------------------
"Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."


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Offline336
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Re: Cuba [Re: rxb]
    #28283805 - 04/18/23 01:40 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
greed always seems to be the problem, regardless of the ism. comunism, socialism, capitalism....its always greed that fucks it up



Yup. It's sad. It's almost like their is some evil spirit than possesses all these people. I just can't understand why no one in power seems to be capable of being righteous.


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Cuba [Re: 336] * 1
    #28283995 - 04/18/23 04:10 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

We aren’t possessed by demons we live under a global economic order that tells us greed is a virtue and collectivism is evil.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Cuba [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28284300 - 04/18/23 07:04 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

we probably need a new form of government.... like anarchy :smile:


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offline336
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Re: Cuba [Re: rxb]
    #28284605 - 04/18/23 10:03 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
We aren’t possessed by demons we live under a global economic order that tells us greed is a virtue and collectivism is evil.



Yes, but why do we live under this global economic order? What spirit is possessing people to be obsessed with greed.

My dad and I were discussing this earlier, and we agreed that perhaps it has something to do with a type of mentality that can be observed in some wild animals; especially wild animals that are alone and starving. It's almost like some predatory nature deep down in the DNA of the elite is unable to turn off despite being fed and safe. Like a feral animal with rabies. It's a mental disorder that is passed down I think. And that mental disorder is often coupled with generations of incest and inbreeding and rape and molestation and all kinds of fucked up shit among the rich and powerful families. This then trickles down to the nations that they manipulate through their various means of control. Or at least that's one theory I have to explain what the fuck is going on.

Quote:

rxb said:
we probably need a new form of government.... like anarchy :smile:



Anarchy only works if everyone is armed, if everyone knows their neighbor, and if there is a sense of culture and community that is more like a family, otherwise it descends into hell where the predators rule through fear.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Cuba [Re: 336]
    #28284814 - 04/19/23 05:56 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:


Anarchy only works if everyone is armed, if everyone knows their neighbor, and if there is a sense of culture and community that is more like a family, otherwise it descends into hell where the predators rule through fear.




many people have misconceptions about what anarchy means. you are one of them.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Cuba [Re: rxb]
    #28284915 - 04/19/23 08:09 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

And yet, many people that do understand anarchy, shivas included, are unable to solve the conundrum of the man with a gun who doesn't give a fuck what you think.

Libertarians can't solve this conundrum either, if it makes ya feel any better.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Cuba [Re: Kryptos]
    #28284920 - 04/19/23 08:14 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Is there some other system that has solved that issue?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Cuba [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28284927 - 04/19/23 08:17 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

To a large degree, the more authoritarian the system, the simpler the solution to that problem.

Of course, using "always a bigger fish" to solve your problems means hierarchies must be built to act as the bigger fish, and then we spend a bunch of time complaining that the biggest fish of them all is bombing half of the world to keep us in a state of relatively luxurious indifference.

This is also why I say morality is a luxury. People that haven't eaten in three days are a lot more willing to make some moral compromises.

Or, here's another potential illustration: you know how most people think they could take a decently sized wild animal in a fight? Have you ever seen a wild animal fight? I don't think I'd want to go toe to toe with a ten pound housecat that is willing to do anything to harm me. There are things that are immediately obvious to wild animals that even I wouldn't be able to comprehend as a possible tactic because it would seem too vicious.


Edited by Kryptos (04/19/23 08:24 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Cuba [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28284941 - 04/19/23 08:25 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

That’s why freedom is overrated.

As a society we should be building institutions that guarantee food, housing, and medical care for every person, not one that protects one’s ability to purchase 70 private jets.

If you have to oppress some people (in Cuba’s case, the land-owning aristocracy and the mafia) to do that, then so be it.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
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Re: Cuba [Re: 336]
    #28284951 - 04/19/23 08:33 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
We aren’t possessed by demons we live under a global economic order that tells us greed is a virtue and collectivism is evil.



Yes, but why do we live under this global economic order? What spirit is possessing people to be obsessed with greed.

My dad and I were discussing this earlier, and we agreed that perhaps it has something to do with a type of mentality that can be observed in some wild animals; especially wild animals that are alone and starving. It's almost like some predatory nature deep down in the DNA of the elite is unable to turn off despite being fed and safe. Like a feral animal with rabies. It's a mental disorder that is passed down I think. And that mental disorder is often coupled with generations of incest and inbreeding and rape and molestation and all kinds of fucked up shit among the rich and powerful families. This then trickles down to the nations that they manipulate through their various means of control. Or at least that's one theory I have to explain what the fuck is going on.






It only seems like a deep-seated fact of the universe because it’s what we were born into.

We are inside Plato’s Cave. Just because all we can see is the shadows dancing on the wall doesn’t mean that’s all there is.


If you want to approach the issue from an evolutionary perspective, then you’d find that humans only exist today because of collectivism.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Cuba [Re: Kryptos]
    #28284953 - 04/19/23 08:34 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

I once charged a pair of raccoons that were blocking my door with a tire iron but I was young and dumb and they could have done some damage if they had stood and fought, no doubt.


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