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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
    #28266403 - 04/07/23 06:38 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

similar for me I have to say


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28266897 - 04/07/23 12:47 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

sudly said:
...

I hear to breathe, to go for a walk, to make some dinner or cook. To sit cross legged in a quiet room holding you arms up with pinched fingers ensued.





I must say this is weird. disconnected residue. see below.


Quote:

sudly said:
What my own mindfulness experiences have been were sitting in a deck chair looking over the balcony and mindfully practicing holding on to less for longer.




this is too conceptual

Quote:

sudly said:
It's an experience to say the least, a step outside my comfort zone but one that seems to bring me comfort in the long term or in the end.

Another mindfulness practice I've done is drawing upon an idea or phrase with crayons then colouring it in and coming up with a creative art attempt.

Sometimes I sit by the computer with guitar in hand practicing finger muscle memory and mostly the technique of finger picking.




while these have some potential for perfecting arts, by immersing one's mind moments into the pursuit of excellence or just immersion, they are really for more advanced meditators.

Quote:

sudly said:
I drive to informative podcasts and plan the timing, the location and cost of the journeys and weekend travel I do.




skillful means in life makes sense.

I had a long series of back and forth communication with Pinky on this forum about going into the moment - in the council of elders thread - this is a good place to start: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28113771#28113771

as for posture, any posture is fine - sitting, lying down, whatever.
if you want to do counting that is ok.
no nose pinching, that is pranayama, not core to the issue of being present, observant, and calm.

if there is anything to remember it is to be present, honestly attentive to any sensation or idea or feeling, and relaxing. everything ramifies from that.
Note when the awareness falters and return to the breath and the relaxing awareness lightly - without frustration.

It is not suitable to do the practice while driving or operating machinery, however, being present and relaxed is very suitable for any activity - this may be years away, or it may set in tomorrow (you are training a reflex to be honestly aware of mental contents and not flinching).

make distinctions between practice and ordinary awareness efforts in life - practice is done during a time set aside to get a good connection with relaxing and observing mental contents at ~10 content changes per second -I use 40 minutes in half lotus on the floor.

you cannot practice(*) if you are in a conversation or driving or making pictures, but you certainly can benefit from a relaxed, informed, and honed awareness in those circumstances.

(*) Mendicant Monks may practice through every action and pause in every minute of their day following detailed instructions that are not applicable to ordinary western life or even ordinary eastern life. It is a monastic immersion after total renunciation of ordinary life. They have a routine for eating, pissing sleeping etc. I know nothing about those details.




Silly traditions, rituals, habits; I thought at first of some of the minutia, gradually coming to see how some usefulness lay in some of them - to an extent.  Eventually, in cloistered environments that allow, that also becomes second nature. 

Doing them, not doing them. Ndb either way, according to circumstances.  People who examine life carefully and have a bit of an imagination can do as well, often do similarly: make, break, create, destroy their own rules and then rewrite and edit & modify or leave be until adjusting themselves or their inner guiding-refining ways to allow whatever fits them appropriately, with respect to the core teachings in addition to their own understanding beyond any one teaching, respectfully.

I still think they're (the details for everything little aspect of daily life [within certain monastic settings]) are somewhat silly, hindering - sometimes I don't.  It can be both and neither too.  Depends.  A hinderance can become a rung on a ladder, a ladder can be flipped to become a bridge, or the ladder can obstruct an unseen danger like a gate.  Depends on how it's used by the person, much like the funkier details of stranger cult(ure)s.

I think If I tried (resolutely) just doing a few of the simpler practices regarding eating and bathroom routines in buddhism, while in public - of the bits I know of to a T as I've come to learn them, be it either any of but 3 different traditions, as I've come into limited contact while within in their own setting, so to speak, - and then do them under my own current "everyday circumstances" in the US...well...

...I'm afraid they'd be more a skillful means for landing me in a situation wherein I increase the chance of getting involuntarily committed than much else. Idk. But, I've played with it a bit in my current setting and it will garner strange looks and make others uncomfortable, others curious, some very upset.  Very rarely, at best meet and befriend another fellow practitioner.  lol.  :uhoh::rofl:

Hence, sometimes it's better to keep some things under wraps, on the down low, & or behind closed doors. (ie. appropriateness)
It was all made up at some point anyways, still ongoing with modifications, and from much older cultures I no longer have much connection with in a clear & direct way.

But, Making use of what's useful, eliminating what's not - either from scratch or from leftovers of a previous batch:  all the better, imho&e.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/23 01:13 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28266976 - 04/07/23 02:02 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Nice post :thumbup:

Do you think there is anything to repeatability? I.e. something 'made up' can be considered in the category of something 'discovered'?

For instance eating a mushroom and finding it to be non-toxic. Then passing that info on.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28267297 - 04/07/23 05:37 PM (9 months, 16 days ago)

I think my Ascetic values are kind of like weight lifting in that you don't have to choose to practice any of them.

It's just an interesting mantra to follow imo, and I like the resolute idea of independence and personal responsibility that is associated with it.

I like to have the assurance we can build skills with practice, and that every bit counts when it comes to progress.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (04/07/23 05:51 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28267562 - 04/07/23 07:39 PM (9 months, 16 days ago)

From feeding carrots to the :goat:

Quote:

I understand what you mean now. It's true that ASMR is a complex and fascinating phenomenon, and not everyone experiences it in the same way or to the same degree. Some people may be able to voluntarily induce ASMR through certain triggers, while others may not experience it at all.

It's also understandable to have concerns about the potential power of mass media to manipulate our psychological responses. However, it's important to remember that we always have the power to choose what we watch and listen to, and to be mindful of the potential impact that media can have on our thoughts and emotions.

The fact that you experience a similar sensation with music is also interesting. Music has been shown to have a powerful effect on our emotions and can even activate the reward centers of the brain. Further exploration and analysis of these experiences could provide insights into the complex interplay between our physical sensations, emotions, and cognitive processes.




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28267632 - 04/07/23 08:10 PM (9 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Nice post :thumbup:

Do you think there is anything to repeatability? I.e. something 'made up' can be considered in the category of something 'discovered'?

For instance eating a mushroom and finding it to be non-toxic. Then passing that info on.





Good question.  I think so, depending on the circumstances.  If examined carefully - discovery can make up the difference between life and death.  Make-believe on the other hand?  Not so much, though it might sweeten the deal, if some discovery comes from playing with it, like a wheel, for long enough.  Sometimes yes sometimes no.

ex.  Liberty caps & death caps.

Imagine one eats a little of the latter to no ill effect due to not crossing the threshold wherein toxic effects appear or appear but are not recognizable.

Then they report to another that this mushroom has no ill effects (for humans), as if it were truth they discovered.  Beware!



On the other hand-

Imagine one eats a lot of the former to much ill effect, crossing the threshold (of one's own understanding of psychedelia, mind, self, environment, mycology, biochemistry, etc etc) .

They then report to another that this mushroom has extremely toxic and intoxicating effects. Never ingest! Beware!

True or False - or- maybe sometimes somethings aren't as simple as that.


Overall i'd say there is potential value in repetition...although, but what comes from it.  Esp. regarding mental & physical disciplines/exercises to hone the body and mind - can tell us something about the person doing it than the thing they're doing.  But also it can tell us something about the thing they're supposedly doing.  As for whether it's beneficial? Depends. It could be. It could also be for the worst.  Or neutral.  Maybe I misunderstood your question, but for whatever it's worth-whalla

I believe in cultivation.  Whatever, be it form or formless, made up, or taken up from another; and if it's for the better how can it be any worse than not doing it?  The varieties of meditative pracitces, be it what they are, to things we take for granted, like reading and writing.  What can't be practiced?  Whereas with Driving? Just practice Driving! Please! :lol:

Especially given human's proclivity to slip into unwholesomeness so easily, so readily.  Speaking for myself, I can tell a difference when I'm playing the fool vs being one.  Without any foundational practice...I can hardly see anything whatsoever at all. :sadyes:


ie.  An imaginary day-dream may potentially lead to a discovery...or, how should I say it...eh, closer to discovery? 

the first lucid dream leads one to discover they are actually in bed (or wherever they are asleep wrt location in space-time) hallucinating rather than the place wherein the hallucinatory dream appears to show them in.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (04/07/23 08:27 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28267685 - 04/07/23 08:23 PM (9 months, 16 days ago)

You addressed it just lovely

I was mostly pondering what it means to pass on cultural information through the lens of discovery. It seems many cultural ontologies operate this way. Like science for example. And I agree with your assessment of sometimes quite subtle differences leading to markedly different understanding(s).


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28267744 - 04/07/23 08:36 PM (9 months, 16 days ago)

In that case I'd say rituals, stories, and traditions, symbols, etc etc can and do transmit information be it cultural or otherwise. Usually involuntarily at first via inculcation.  For me it is more difficult to grasp the greater nuances of a foreign culture's essence while in my own, on my own, but some tiny glimpses sometimes come if I really go after it.  A trifle really. 

But if then I actually go travel and dive head first into the other culture-of-interest and then do the same thing I thought they were doing which I'd thought they'd be doing - something telling usually comes of it wrt said culture-of-interest.  Eventually the mimicry becomes something else, more genuine and authentic.  In which case, I generally find we aren't as different as we appear to be, although we also are.  A paradox of sorts, but a valuable one imho.:thumbup:



--------------------
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28268073 - 04/08/23 03:24 AM (9 months, 16 days ago)

you then are the buddha of paradoxicality


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle]
    #28270442 - 04/09/23 09:01 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Nice post :thumbup:

Do you think there is anything to repeatability? I.e. something 'made up' can be considered in the category of something 'discovered'?

For instance eating a mushroom and finding it to be non-toxic. Then passing that info on.




You can feed young gonnas baby cane toads to teach them not to eat the poisonous amphibians as adults and they learn not to eat them.

But those lizards that have been taught to avoid eating cane toads, are unable to teach it to their young, or pass the behaviour on to their offspring.

Auatralian crows in northern states can teach crows in other states how to flip cane toads and eat solely their livers too.

Crows have good social teaching and adaptation skills.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: sudly]
    #28270760 - 04/10/23 06:48 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Gonnas?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Ascetic values and mindfulness [Re: Kickle]
    #28271149 - 04/10/23 01:32 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Goannas. Big ol lizards that eat whatever they can fit in their mouths. The yellow spotted variety has had their population decline by 90% since cane toads were introduced and people have been trying to train them not to without long term success unfortunately.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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