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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Registered: 03/17/22
Posts: 363
Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis * 1
    #28271131 - 04/10/23 01:07 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay

I don't think any truly aware person in the west right now does not see a kind of mass hysteria surrounding the current social issues of the day, which started to set in with Trumps presidency and came to fruition during COVID. Whatever your views politically, I think its quite self-evident that the patients have proverbally taken over the asylum. Living in a big liberal city myself I see the decline of civil discourse and the societal decay set in of this new emergent post-modern dyspotia where mental illness is rife, crime is massivley on the rise and trust in instituions have a eroded to a level not before seen in my lifetime.

I'm starting to feel that my city in general is becomming more and more like an open air asylum. Its much more dangerous out there. Anyone who lives in downtown LA would most certainly agree with me on that. What has happened in society where we now move from crisis to crisis, civil discourse is gone and it seems like we a moving twoards a mass psychosis situation where the sane are self-censoring themselves so as not to inflame the crowd who have all drank the koolaid.

I'm trying not to get political with this, because I understand the causes of that form of divisiveness. I'm more now trying to figure out what the deep rooted philosophical/psychological causes are of what I see as mass hysperia/psychosis that I encouter now on a daily basis.

What kind of responsibility as psychadelic users do we have to understand how we might hope to repair our collective/individual situation perhaps with the use of deconditioning agents such a psilocybin or just plain commong sense approcahes, especially since I see people on this website also caught up in manufactured divisive narratives, that do not serve us a humans, trying to figure out this reality with some level of civility, logic and rationality?

Anyways, my two cents is that we must, as in the dark ages past, rediscover what the ancient philosophers have taught us to bring us back from the edge plummeting into another dark age.

Aristotle,
Marcus Aurelius,
Thomas Aquinus,
Etc

A good reintroduction of the basic laws of logic and resoning might save us from going over the edge like lemmings.

Education education education!

What do you think?


Edited by thetruthsohelp (04/10/23 01:26 PM)


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OfflineSpore Gasm
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28271223 - 04/10/23 02:45 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Just a small thought, of the psychological/ philosophical causes of this civil decay have a number of reasons behind it. I think one of the big reasons is the lack of mental health care, it's horrendously underfunded and just not really available to some people who need it most. Those who can't or don't have the funds aren't able to get help and may begin to self-medicate with harder substances. If that isn't the case having a lack of healthcare certainly would put anyone in a bad place. Although not true for everyone, everyone's situation is different, but there is a familiar pattern.
The lack of civil discourse side of what you said could be partly attributed to poor education. There is no real federal standard in the US between all of the state's for what an education should be. Leaving some of the poorer states in the dust while richer states give a better education. Some states decide that they would rather cut the budget for education to fund other ventures, leading to more poorly educated children, and that can lead to the lack of civil discourse. Especially if kind of kept in an echo chamber of those with a similar mindset.
Its a really unfortunate situation, but that is all I will go into for the moment.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Spore Gasm]
    #28271239 - 04/10/23 03:05 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

the ancients had less understanding of mind.
we still have illusions about mind, health, and order in society.
USA supports free screaming, not only free speech, and if you want, get a gun, but then what are you going to do.
more screaming.
be free.
it's mixed up.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28271388 - 04/10/23 04:59 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

^And mind over matter is still taboo.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp] * 2
    #28271775 - 04/10/23 08:00 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

A growing wealth gap means the poor get poorer while the middle class slide into poverty and creates an atmosphere of despair. The government brings in record taxes, but are spending ever greater amounts servicing the debt and supporting many hundreds of military bases around the world to perpetuate a fiat current that is being devalued. Leisure computers and social media is especially unkind to freedom loving countries as long term gratification is given up for porn and video games, social isolation and living the soft life, which shelters ever greater numbers of people from emotional maturity via the loss of commitments and obligations, conflict resolution, etc. Parents are affected in greater numbers leaving their children to these devices (neglect) or trying to isolate them and mold them which prevents the creation of self-identity. Pathologies increase and with no end in sight to the financial malaise the despair fuels hopelessness and victim mentality. Greater and greater amounts are spent on health care but it is a loosing battle that results in greater and greater numbers of mentally ill.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28272081 - 04/10/23 11:16 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:

Anyways, my two cents is that we must, as in the dark ages past, rediscover what the ancient philosophers have taught us to bring us back from the edge plummeting into another dark age.






more than likely that wld require a total reset, to create a literal dark age.  a natural emp or man-made one.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28272248 - 04/11/23 04:31 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
A growing wealth gap means the poor get poorer while the middle class slide into poverty and creates an atmosphere of despair. The government brings in record taxes, but are spending ever greater amounts servicing the debt and supporting many hundreds of military bases around the world to perpetuate a fiat current that is being devalued. Leisure computers and social media is especially unkind to freedom loving countries as long term gratification is given up for porn and video games, social isolation and living the soft life, which shelters ever greater numbers of people from emotional maturity via the loss of commitments and obligations, conflict resolution, etc. Parents are affected in greater numbers leaving their children to these devices (neglect) or trying to isolate them and mold them which prevents the creation of self-identity. Pathologies increase and with no end in sight to the financial malaise the despair fuels hopelessness and victim mentality. Greater and greater amounts are spent on health care but it is a loosing battle that results in greater and greater numbers of mentally ill.



many of these points are valid.
can you see a way around the problems into a brighter future?
what are the obstacles?
what kind of coordinated effort is necessary.
anyway - great summary of the plight


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28272294 - 04/11/23 05:52 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
A growing wealth gap means the poor get poorer while the middle class slide into poverty and creates an atmosphere of despair. The government brings in record taxes, but are spending ever greater amounts servicing the debt and supporting many hundreds of military bases around the world to perpetuate a fiat current that is being devalued. Leisure computers and social media is especially unkind to freedom loving countries as long term gratification is given up for porn and video games, social isolation and living the soft life, which shelters ever greater numbers of people from emotional maturity via the loss of commitments and obligations, conflict resolution, etc. Parents are affected in greater numbers leaving their children to these devices (neglect) or trying to isolate them and mold them which prevents the creation of self-identity. Pathologies increase and with no end in sight to the financial malaise the despair fuels hopelessness and victim mentality. Greater and greater amounts are spent on health care but it is a loosing battle that results in greater and greater numbers of mentally ill.



Great post! :peace:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp] * 1
    #28272314 - 04/11/23 06:31 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

To blame the current civil decay and rising mass hysteria on the 48 months of the Trump presidency is very shortsighted.  I don't see much difference between the divisiveness the Obamas push and that of Republicans.  Recall how George Zimmerman was described as a "white Hispanic".  The Obamas are just as divisive and narcissistic many other politicians. 

The Trump presidency was good for many reasons.  It exposed a lot of hatred that so called "compassionate" people have hidden behind. This exposure is good. The charade is over. Notice how demonization has skyrocketed, as one political party calls the other a mindless brainwashed cult. In 2020, Biden voters claimed to be very happy to move past Trump, yet their furious anger has increased.  Trump remains the cornerstone of the Democrat party.   

The perspective America is full of racist white supremacists (who want to annihilate blacks) was popularized by Johnnie Cochran in 1995, when he repeatedly told us that racism is everywhere. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar now tells us white racism is everywhere in the US, even when we don't see it, white racial hatred is everywhere.  Kareem refuses to admit racism in the black community has exploded - being fed by the victim extremists. The radical gender extremists are also pushing the victimhood narrative hard.  In their story, the bad people are always the same.  The evil brainwashed cult.         

I don't believe hundreds of billions of dollars for mental health care would change much of anything. If we provide every single person with free meds and a free therapist, depression, despair, chronic rage, and mass drug and alcohol abuse will still be very common. Mental health needs to be cultivated and established early on in life. To try to rescue a miserable person later in life is putting a tiny bandage on a giant bleeding wound.   

If education is a factor, it's our inability and unwillingness to address what causes human despair and misery.  BTW, my son, in his first year of college, is being taught that white Americans kidnapped African blacks to be used as slaves.  That we are so afraid to teach the truth is amazing.  Some African leaders became rich by selling America slaves.  If we are afraid to teach basic historical facts, we are screwed.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28272359 - 04/11/23 07:22 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
many of these points are valid.
can you see a way around the problems into a brighter future?
what are the obstacles?
what kind of coordinated effort is necessary.
anyway - great summary of the plight




I don't think there's a way around the problems but it's part of a cycle that has played out before. Time has no obstacles.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28272372 - 04/11/23 07:33 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

@ rahz, So fatalism is your sooth.
@ rgtubs, I cannot remember any public figure before Trump who showed no respect for anyone or anything except himself. Probably the worst example for the rest of us who are barely past monkey see monkey do.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28272386 - 04/11/23 07:43 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Do you blame the Hollywood elite (such as Oprah and David Letterman) for constantly encouraging Trump to run for president?  Oprah has just as big of an ego as Donald.  Maybe larger?  I laugh when my friends get angry that I refuse to pronounce Trump the biggest of all egos. Yeah, OK.  The prerequisite for demonization is fantasy. 

Trump = Putin = Hitler = Satan


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28272406 - 04/11/23 07:56 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

I think it's the logical sooth based on thousands of years of history. Technology has always increased and nothing is ever exactly the same so it's difficult to say what that will mean but I don't assume it's terrible.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28272533 - 04/11/23 09:31 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

makes sense


--------------------
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28272540 - 04/11/23 09:34 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Do you blame the Hollywood elite (such as Oprah and David Letterman) for constantly encouraging Trump to run for president?  Oprah has just as big of an ego as Donald.  Maybe larger?  I laugh when my friends get angry that I refuse to pronounce Trump the biggest of all egos. Yeah, OK.  The prerequisite for demonization is fantasy. 

Trump = Putin = Hitler = Satan



I think your math equation is ridiculous, I do not blame hollywood, but I do blame Trump himself for being such a greedy disgusting genius and paying for talent to perform ignobly on his behalf over several decades of self aggrandization.
those are the narrative facts, but the math so far is largely hidden.


--------------------
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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28273040 - 04/11/23 03:09 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Credit to Spinvis for the post in spiritual quotes thread. This is what I was fumbling with.

Quote:

Lama Thubten Yeshe - Introduction to Tantra: The Transformation of Desire - 1. Basic Purity;
"When we have developed our own inner purity, inner compassion, and inner love, we can then see the reflection of this purity and loving-kindness in others. But if we have not contacted these qualities within ourselves, we will see everyone as ugly and limited. For whatever we see every day in outer reality is actually nothing more than a projection of our own inner reality."




Edited by syncro (04/11/23 03:10 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: syncro]
    #28273092 - 04/11/23 03:37 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)



--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28273296 - 04/11/23 05:48 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
To blame the current civil decay and rising mass hysteria on the 48 months of the Trump presidency is very shortsighted.  I don't see much difference between the divisiveness the Obamas push and that of Republicans.  Recall how George Zimmerman was described as a "white Hispanic".  The Obamas are just as divisive and narcissistic many other politicians. 

The Trump presidency was good for many reasons.  It exposed a lot of hatred that so called "compassionate" people have hidden behind. This exposure is good. The charade is over. Notice how demonization has skyrocketed, as one political party calls the other a mindless brainwashed cult. In 2020, Biden voters claimed to be very happy to move past Trump, yet their furious anger has increased.  Trump remains the cornerstone of the Democrat party.   

The perspective America is full of racist white supremacists (who want to annihilate blacks) was popularized by Johnnie Cochran in 1995, when he repeatedly told us that racism is everywhere. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar now tells us white racism is everywhere in the US, even when we don't see it, white racial hatred is everywhere.  Kareem refuses to admit racism in the black community has exploded - being fed by the victim extremists. The radical gender extremists are also pushing the victimhood narrative hard.  In their story, the bad people are always the same.  The evil brainwashed cult.         

I don't believe hundreds of billions of dollars for mental health care would change much of anything. If we provide every single person with free meds and a free therapist, depression, despair, chronic rage, and mass drug and alcohol abuse will still be very common. Mental health needs to be cultivated and established early on in life. To try to rescue a miserable person later in life is putting a tiny bandage on a giant bleeding wound.   

If education is a factor, it's our inability and unwillingness to address what causes human despair and misery.  BTW, my son, in his first year of college, is being taught that white Americans kidnapped African blacks to be used as slaves.  That we are so afraid to teach the truth is amazing.  Some African leaders became rich by selling America slaves.  If we are afraid to teach basic historical facts, we are screwed.





Fair play to this man, I think youre pretty spot on here actually.:thumbup:


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Kickle]
    #28273307 - 04/11/23 05:52 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Yeshe...
https://martincid.com/en/2022/10/osel-hbo-max-documentary-series/




I knew a lot of the old Lama Yeshe's student back in the day, good people generally. He wrote an essay in the 80's that I liked, something to do with anxiety and compassion in a nuclear age. I have quite a few Tibetan friends, all lovely people actually.

But I think the Lamaist system is terrible, telling a young kid he was someone in a past life and brainwashing them into this monastic system is just wrong. The Osel kid I think disrobed as I heard and spent some time chilling and taking drugs in Ibiza. Havent seen this documentary though, will give it a look-see.


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Posts: 363
Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28273318 - 04/11/23 05:53 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the ancients had less understanding of mind.
we still have illusions about mind, health, and order in society.
USA supports free screaming, not only free speech, and if you want, get a gun, but then what are you going to do.
more screaming.
be free.
it's mixed up.




I disagree, I think the ancients had a good understanding of mind, possibly better than our current western psychoanalytical academics, with the exception of Carl Jung and a few others.


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28273325 - 04/11/23 05:55 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
A growing wealth gap means the poor get poorer while the middle class slide into poverty and creates an atmosphere of despair. The government brings in record taxes, but are spending ever greater amounts servicing the debt and supporting many hundreds of military bases around the world to perpetuate a fiat current that is being devalued. Leisure computers and social media is especially unkind to freedom loving countries as long term gratification is given up for porn and video games, social isolation and living the soft life, which shelters ever greater numbers of people from emotional maturity via the loss of commitments and obligations, conflict resolution, etc. Parents are affected in greater numbers leaving their children to these devices (neglect) or trying to isolate them and mold them which prevents the creation of self-identity. Pathologies increase and with no end in sight to the financial malaise the despair fuels hopelessness and victim mentality. Greater and greater amounts are spent on health care but it is a loosing battle that results in greater and greater numbers of mentally ill.




A lot of good points here, but it would take me too long to unpack and properly respond. Overall though I agree.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28273424 - 04/11/23 07:02 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the ancients had less understanding of mind.
we still have illusions about mind, health, and order in society.
USA supports free screaming, not only free speech, and if you want, get a gun, but then what are you going to do.
more screaming.
be free.
it's mixed up.




I disagree, I think the ancients had a good understanding of mind, possibly better than our current western psychoanalytical academics, with the exception of Carl Jung and a few others.



that would be speculation, and I am not sure how you can speculate that.


--------------------
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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28273430 - 04/11/23 07:06 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the ancients had less understanding of mind.
we still have illusions about mind, health, and order in society.
USA supports free screaming, not only free speech, and if you want, get a gun, but then what are you going to do.
more screaming.
be free.
it's mixed up.




I disagree, I think the ancients had a good understanding of mind, possibly better than our current western psychoanalytical academics, with the exception of Carl Jung and a few others.



that would be speculation, and I am not sure how you can speculate that.




It is speculation youre right becuase I don't know quite how to judge the quality of a field which is in its infacy like psychology of mind. Even the best of philosophers and psychologists are prodding around in the dark over this subject. But I guess I can say where i have found value, but that is pretty subjective at best.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28273472 - 04/11/23 07:37 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

People act differently in groups. Insert a puesdo fake belonging via a smartphone, wallah.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: thetruthsohelp] * 1
    #28273523 - 04/11/23 08:17 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

It's another opinion but I'd say meditative teachings certainly are superior to modern therapies, and it would depend on one's needs and abilities, but if meditation belongs to the ancients, they win this.


Edited by syncro (04/11/23 08:18 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: syncro]
    #28273844 - 04/12/23 03:29 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
It's another opinion but I'd say meditative teachings certainly are superior to modern therapies, and it would depend on one's needs and abilities, but if meditation belongs to the ancients, they win this.



it was only ever practiced by a few, and still is.
it comes from the self, not from vague records in the past.
if anything, we have much more published and shared about meditation now, in methods and in analysis of the resultant states.

also it is fundamentally a natural thing, which may actually be practiced by cats and other creatures.

the term "wisdom of the ancients" is a sales pitch, beware.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28273881 - 04/12/23 04:18 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Some teachers go far in rejecting other teachings. Marketing 101 I guess.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: syncro]
    #28273894 - 04/12/23 04:32 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

the translation of Dharma is sometimes called teachings; but often the desire of the teacher is conflated with teachings.
I think if you cannot point to a specific book or set of books then this is not validly the "wisdom of the ancients", but a custom package of somebody's ego mixed with snippets and quotes to validate their dialog.

vaguely referring to the "wisdom of the ancients" is lazy and actually pretentious.

everyone benefits by being more specific in their meanings


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28273930 - 04/12/23 05:29 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

It might be easier to find dharmas in which I don't like to sift for validity, and those would be ones that I haven't familiarity. And why would I specify here where you are aiming to take a leak on them? Not that I'd be convinced. Again, different directions on the circle arriving at the same point. Embracing them all, rejecting them all. As said it goes back to self.

The way you identify consciousness and mental activity negates nothing. It is another religion. I like it actually, what I think I can understand. Rejecting other approaches is not useful to me, if they are not intended to harm.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: syncro]
    #28273960 - 04/12/23 06:06 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

I would view your reference to teachings as a romantic enchantment, and that might explain why you don't want to be specific.

When you talk about me urinating on your books, this is not a thing I do or even think about or have done. I am not defensive about what I know or think, and when I question people or ask them to be specific, it is not an attack, not a put down, it is an effort to dispel the fog.

SO if you do have a "teaching" that you respect and care about, be up front - do not hide it because you think I want to piss on your source.

This is a forum about philosophy and psychology, clear honest thinking has a home here.

Enchantment is a wonderful thing, but fog is a very dull substitute, so do not be mysterious about what you mean by "teachings" if you want to use that word and not get lumped in with new age fluff heads who are more at home in the fog of the mysticism forum where you  do not have to explain what you mean, you can just put out your attitude and done.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28274421 - 04/12/23 01:00 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

I do find that introspection is was more emphasized in ancient cultures whereas in the west you are rewarded the more socially and extropectively you act within society. Its a difficult nut to crack when it comes to philosophy of mind, but to say the ancients had less to say about the mind and the condition of the soul and how to live a virtuous life than the modern world is going too far. The basis for rule of law, democracy, recourse to reason, apologetics, all of the categories of philosophy, ethics, epistemology, all of these things came from the ancients originally and form the basis still of our societies today, so we can't ignore it. Especially we should learn from the mistakes of history and I fear we are making the same mistakes over and over and not learning as a society, so there's that.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28274453 - 04/12/23 01:22 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
I do find that introspection is was more emphasized in ancient cultures whereas in the west you are rewarded the more socially and extropectively you act within society. Its a difficult nut to crack when it comes to philosophy of mind, but to say the ancients had less to say about the mind and the condition of the soul and how to live a virtuous life than the modern world is going too far. The basis for rule of law, democracy, recourse to reason, apologetics, all of the categories of philosophy, ethics, epistemology, all of these things came from the ancients originally and form the basis still of our societies today, so we can't ignore it. Especially we should learn from the mistakes of history and I fear we are making the same mistakes over and over and not learning as a society, so there's that.



in some documents that seem to have survived (or have fraudulently been represented as authentically ancient) it is possible that introspection was valued and taught.
in ancient sculpture, certainly, beauty was adored.

The rewards, in the past, however, were fraught with fealty issues, and at the other end of the spectrum there was slavery abuse and death.

Introspection may have been the only refuge, but we cannot be certain of that either. Life was shorter, harder, meaner, and those who grew older probably made themselves useful to kings and tyrants.

So if we talk about the wisdom of the ancients, we are mostly speaking about modern book promotions, self help self-promoters, and educational TV shows that hold back on the frightful details, like Vlad the Impaler, or today's Vlad the Putin.

I have to imagine that we have more time now for introspection, or at least the practice of awareness, but for most of us still life is not easy, and fealty is still not worth the compromise.

At least now we have more books we can read, and we can develop wisdom by being well read, and when we grow old, the wisdom of the ancients will be ours.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28274792 - 04/12/23 05:30 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Yeah I definitely agree we have it better than the ancients did in terms of leisure time and in the west, not being under kings and tyrants. But I do think the ancients were perhaps better at looking within, perhaps as you say because of circumstances, but perhaps they just had limited access to information and had to look more closely within for answers to their immediate and long term problems, be it psychological or spiritual. I do admit though that we might never know due to not being able to walk in those shoes. I dunno, I just think that we are slipping into some kind of idicoracy. Can you imagine taking someone from 2000 years ago and showing them our society what they would think? They would probably equally be in awe at our technology but disgusted by our lack of morality and introspection. I dunno man its a hard question for sure.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28274813 - 04/12/23 05:56 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

the time machine produces unfamiliar impressions no matter which way you go, I surely do not want to go into the past even for a lark.
I don't think the odors would be to my liking, and the toilet arrangements would probably lead me to an early demise.

I consider myself somewhat introspective.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28274819 - 04/12/23 06:04 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the time machine produces unfamiliar impressions no matter which way you go, I surely do not want to go into the past even for a lark.
I don't think the odors would be to my liking, and the toilet arrangements would probably lead me to an early demise.

I consider myself somewhat introspective.




:lol::lol::lol:


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28275367 - 04/13/23 04:43 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I would view your reference to teachings as a romantic enchantment, and that might explain why you don't want to be specific.

When you talk about me urinating on your books, this is not a thing I do or even think about or have done. I am not defensive about what I know or think, and when I question people or ask them to be specific, it is not an attack, not a put down, it is an effort to dispel the fog.

SO if you do have a "teaching" that you respect and care about, be up front - do not hide it because you think I want to piss on your source.

This is a forum about philosophy and psychology, clear honest thinking has a home here.

Enchantment is a wonderful thing, but fog is a very dull substitute, so do not be mysterious about what you mean by "teachings" if you want to use that word and not get lumped in with new age fluff heads who are more at home in the fog of the mysticism forum where you  do not have to explain what you mean, you can just put out your attitude and done.




The essence is not specifiable, and that is why negation is pretty silly. Some Buddhists don't want to say there is a self, like denying the sky, but to not name it, like space, is respectable. They won't say it is nihilism.

To separate mind or self from thought objectification is what all of it does imo. And it can be considered the same as love or peace because that is the effect. That is why most any religion talking about love or peace, the sublime, being still to be there, is it as well.

How can anything not be it, including what you think is fog? It is the fog. What is fog? Bliss, the witness, the poem, the completeness in anything.

Reducing it to your terminology does not make it less fog necessarily for others but for you and those who jive with it. Then we 'think' we know, and what is more foggy than that?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: syncro]
    #28275473 - 04/13/23 07:01 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

so you are spreading the teachings of fog.

I am not negating teachings, I am doubting that you mean what you think you mean, which is the way of the fog.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28276198 - 04/13/23 05:11 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Do you blame the Hollywood elite (such as Oprah and David Letterman) for constantly encouraging Trump to run for president?  Oprah has just as big of an ego as Donald.  Maybe larger?  I laugh when my friends get angry that I refuse to pronounce Trump the biggest of all egos. Yeah, OK.  The prerequisite for demonization is fantasy. 

Trump = Putin = Hitler = Satan




The problem with Trump is he is trying to make himself into the American Messiah, that he has the answers to all of Americas problems, which is....problematic., I did like some of Trumps policies such a energy independence and actually maintaining a functioning border, a non-interventionist foreign policy, but as always with these kind of narcissistic delusionaries, humility is lacking. Do I thin Hollywood is to blame for blowing smoke up his ass for years, probably. However he is the only politician I have seen in my lifetime to try and do what he actually campaigned on which means a lot. In any case this is not the politics forum so this is as far as I go here on this topic. Philosophically speaking thought Trump is a total pragmatist in the sense that he will do whatever it takes to fulfill his ego trip. Not a great trait in a leader in my estimation. I wont get into Biden's philosophy or psychology because it would be mean to do so since he has nothing noteworthy to to speak of, like whistling in the wind.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28276810 - 04/14/23 03:56 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
so you are spreading the teachings of fog.

I am not negating teachings, I am doubting that you mean what you think you mean, which is the way of the fog.




Peace is pretty hard to miss.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: syncro]
    #28276824 - 04/14/23 04:37 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

so is clarity


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28276871 - 04/14/23 05:48 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Things were probably better in '72. Why didn't it stick?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28276875 - 04/14/23 05:55 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

I guess you are over fifty, age sets in.
Some say "youth is wasted on the youth"
'72 was a long time ago
VW beetles, Sensimillia, waterbeds, no home computers or cell phones, cheap rent and mandarine oranges.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28276879 - 04/14/23 06:04 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

I was thinking about the love movement. It crossed secular and religious boundaries. But it seems we gave peace a chance and it didn't work out.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28276930 - 04/14/23 07:07 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

yeah, well, I once had communal political ideas as well, but I also thought I wanted to be a monk. One keeps on maturing, and setting new goals, based upon suitability. Also - part of the problem is that nothing lasts and we do age out of what we thought was critically important, except for a few things:
like learning to be calm.
and learning to be present.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28278172 - 04/14/23 10:45 PM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I was thinking about the love movement. It crossed secular and religious boundaries. But it seems we gave peace a chance and it didn't work out.



I don't think that's because of the people.. but a hidden evil agenda pulling strings behind the scenes.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28278330 - 04/15/23 04:08 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I don't think people are smart enough to effectively conspire that well.

Connecting up the dots into evil manipulation schemes is just a paranoid habit, try wordle instead.

most criminal behavior is just dumb cheating. someone pretended to be my daughter with phone trouble yesterday, in a series of text messages. I almost paid into their scheme, but when they asked for money I knew it was really goofy. Had to block 2 phone numbers. Mostly I get tax fraudsters claiming I owe money.

sometimes I know there is a company in India making a fortune from schemes like these, but it is not well coordinated conspiracy. And there are no living dead or cordicepts fungus people either.

is the world too complicated, maybe it is for some.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28278422 - 04/15/23 05:48 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
I was thinking about the love movement. It crossed secular and religious boundaries. But it seems we gave peace a chance and it didn't work out.



I don't think that's because of the people.. but a hidden evil agenda pulling strings behind the scenes.




Not saying you're wrong but the love movement while phenomenal wasn't all encompassing or truly unified. It was always counter-culture. Sometimes there's no need to pull strings. Just sit back and let things happen.

I think they made damn sure it didn't happen again though. :wink:


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28278437 - 04/15/23 06:08 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Om..


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28278479 - 04/15/23 06:54 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

People are smart enough (some of them) but it's a game of power so there's only ever so much unity.

"We're spreading democracy, not building an empire"

"We're not trying to divide and conquer, power to the poor"

It's an absence of faith in human potential. Crabs in a bucket. Vampires when aware and finding it reasonable and profitable.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28278618 - 04/15/23 08:50 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...
"We're spreading democracy, not building an empire"
...





In Canada, a movement is afoot, and has been for a long time, (though I was impatient about it in my teens), in which a Charter of Rights and Freedoms takes the place of a Constitution.
We are definitely still working it out.
If we do get a handle on it, and if it spreads off-shore, it it will not be conducive to Empire formation but rather towards global integration, and independent governance, which democratic practice can support when built upon a good cornerstone.

The right to bear arms is not one such cornerstone, and neither is the right to call deliquent behavior "free speech" when it is intentionally destructive.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28280960 - 04/16/23 06:15 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Is life better there now than in your teens?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28281121 - 04/16/23 08:00 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

I think it is better in canada.
gentler overall, we still have violence and gangs
but we also treat charter issues with respect.

Some of the shameful USA tactics are percolating into our politics, but so far not too deeply.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28281466 - 04/17/23 02:00 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

I don't think the psychedelic community really has a role to play in changing society, however I think it certainly has therapeutic benefits to the individuals who use it while informed.

This does have political elements to it regardless, obviously. They don't have to be divisive though, I think despite the appearances of legacy media, people generally want themselves and others to be healthy. We may be told were different, but when we get into the grit of it, the vast majority all want the same thing. Culture war references are only a distraction from economic issues and don't have real impacts on peoples lives. E.g. The bud light shenanigans atm. Next week it'll be cheese that's too creamy.

I think transparency of the entities advertising and sponsoring political figures is a great way to see change, but when the time we see their blazers stamped with sponsor badges is a mystery.

I think there are deep rooted issues and causes in the economic strife people find themselves in. When their told the market is great but they don't experience any of the benefits can be infuriating. And when put in poverty positions with little opportunity, the song of crime sways many.

Trickle down economics has been a ruse since 67 when Nixon split wealth distribution.

The danger in psychedelics isn't their toxicity, because they generally aren't, but I think is in the interpretions people have of their experiences while on them.

Instead of recognising the experience as one of personal responsibility, I think a lot of people tend to see them at coming externally and they end up attributing supernatural foundations to them which can be a hazy hole to dig into.

The time it takes to educate people on therapeutic psychedelic use is presumably extensive, while a political shift can spread quickly.

I think psychedelics technically could change society if everyone took them and was in highly therapeutic and informative conditions, but I don't see how that could come about other than a trickle at a time.

I suppose the responsibility of the psychedelic community in my view should be to educate about safe use and personal responsibility of psychedelic experiences, but easier said than done.

I think we all have a responsibility to vote though, and in Australia at least that is the case. The next step would be crossing our fingers and hoping someone genuine makes their way through the cracks and filters of legacy media to slam the wardens who keep the corporate sponsors at the helm of our national discourse.

So shifting the national discourse and expanding the Overton window to be inclusive of progressive policies supported by the majorities are critical in my view.

Frankly nowadays they just don't grant exposure to people and ideas that threaten to topple the monopoly they've built.

If you know who Marianne Williamson is that's neat, but the smear jobs and straight dismissal of her run for presidency is apparent.

Sometimes those who scoff the popular only make them more popular over time, at least that's the hope in Mariannes case.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28281478 - 04/17/23 02:22 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

The divisiveness started in 67, not 2016.

It isn't a race or gender of people that is the issue, but the monied interest undermining democratic representation by buying the loyalty of politicians.

Clarence Thomas is a prime recent example of how bribery works in the US.

Universal healthcare and associated mental health care would be a godsend that would bring America into the 21st century to share in the haven of healthcare all other developed countries have. It would make a monumental difference to the lives of tens if not hundreds of millions of Americans.

First they'd be thankful their taxes are being used to benefit them and not just given to the Pentagon to fail 5 audits in a row and have 59% of their assets unaccounted for. Just hundreds of billions that no one can say where it went.

Second and most importantly, people wouldn't be thrown into medical debt for a broken arm of having a baby. When life happens and you find yourself in an accident, the last thing you need is a 10,000 medical bill that is price gouged and serves no purpose other than filling the pockets of rapacious for profit middle men insurance companies.

I don't think its surprising some people turn to crime or otherwise when they or someone in their lives falls ill and they're struck with a debt they'll never be able to repay. A debt the citizens of all other developed nations would have covered by the thousands in taxes they contribute to society every year.

Education has its merits too, and it doesn't help to try and rewrite history. I really hope you aren't trying to say that slavery was okay because some black people benefited from it or at least did well for themselves during the time.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28281589 - 04/17/23 05:58 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

The problem is the wealth gap and progressive policy correlate. I'm not saying it's causative but it does seem the policies that have been allowed to move forward aren't designed to shrink the gap. More like bread and circus, which includes pedophilia (p22)

https://icj2.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/8-MARCH-Principles-FINAL-printer-version-1-MARCH-2023.pdf

As well, the trans uproar is primarily about child consent, which of course opens up a whole new market for expensive procedures and lifetime care and pharmaceuticals. Interestingly, those who come of age and regret the path that was laid out for them find the insurance companies have no interest in spending money to reverse the damage that was done.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28281599 - 04/17/23 06:06 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Cool, name or quote one progressive policy you're referring to.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28281608 - 04/17/23 06:28 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

:crazy: What do you consider to be progressive?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28281626 - 04/17/23 06:45 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said: The problem is the wealth gap and progressive policy correlate. I'm not saying it's causative but it does seem the policies that have been allowed to move forward aren't designed to shrink the gap.




You made the statement, back it up, just name one progressive policy you're referring to.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28281632 - 04/17/23 06:52 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Progressive policy is responsible for the shuttering of Germany's nuclear power plants which increases the burden on the poor.

I did give you one. That's two.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28281685 - 04/17/23 07:42 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

I believe it's important to consider both the short term and long term effects of policy decisions, and to recognize that some policies may have trade offs or require significant upfront investments in order to yield long term benefits. The phasing out of nuclear power plants in Germany was a complex policy decision that involved weighing the potential risks and benefits of nuclear energy, and it is debatable whether it was ultimately a progressive or regressive policy. Some could argue that it was a progressive move towards a more sustainable and environmentally friendly energy system, while others could argue that it led to an increase in coal power use, which has negative environmental and health impacts.

While the decision to phase out nuclear power in Germany may have been a progressive policy in terms of promoting renewable energy sources, the increased use of coal power is not a progressive policy.

It's hard to definitively label the policy to phase out nuclear power in Germany as either progressive or regressive, because we can make clear that the increased use of coal power is not a progressive policy, and that this policy is distinguished from other policies that are explicitly labeled as progressive, such as universal healthcare, progressive taxation, paid family leave, increasing the minimum wage, and criminal justice reform.

Progressive policies like universal healthcare, progressive taxation, paid family leave, increasing the minimum wage and criminal justice reform are designed to decrease wealth inequality and improve general welfare. They aim to provide greater economic security and opportunities to those who are disadvantaged or marginalised in society.

And to your trans comments, according to some studies, rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. A review of 27 studies involving almost 8000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries found that on average only 1% expressed regret. While for some, regret was temporary, a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries. The research suggested that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.

Quote:

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.

Research suggests that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b




There is no clear evidence to support the claim that the trans community is promoting or benefiting from a new market for expensive medical procedures or pharmaceuticals. The medical procedures and pharmaceuticals used in gender affirming care are not new, but have been used for decades to treat a variety of medical conditions. The cost of gender affirming care varies widely depending on the individual's needs and insurance coverage, and there is no evidence to suggest that the trans community is disproportionately benefiting from expensive medical procedures or pharmaceuticals.

I am aware that many insurance plans do cover some forms of gender affirming care, such as hormone therapy and gender confirmation surgeries. I also believe it's important to recognize that the decision to pursue gender affirming care is a personal choice made by individuals and should be respected as such.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28281752 - 04/17/23 08:35 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Progressive policies like universal healthcare, progressive taxation, paid family leave, increasing the minimum wage and criminal justice reform are designed to decrease wealth inequality and improve general welfare. They aim to provide greater economic security and opportunities to those who are disadvantaged or marginalised in society.




And yet the wealth gap grows. :shrug:

Regarding the transgender issue, it's the pharmaceutical and medical industry that sees financial profit not the transgender community. And again, a big concern isn't about adults but children. There's a claim that the first pediatric gender clinic opened in the US in 2007. While I don't care to be definitive about that it's certainly true that hundreds have opened since. I've read various anecdotal stories regarding the ease with which treatment began with doctors pulling parents aside to tell them they could have a dead boy or a trans girl.

Delusions that are supported by society are still delusions. Social contagions regarding the fantasy that gay men and/or hormonally challenged individuals (which might be due to environmental issues) were born in the wrong body are not simply grassroots efforts but pushed onto society by those who will profit from it. There is clear evidence. Transgenders people require a lifetime of care. Societal support for delusional beliefs does seem to reduce dysphoria to a degree but the suicide rate remains high because the symptoms are addressed rather than underlying mental issues that cause dysphoria, being unhappy with the body they were born with and the reality that no amount of surgery or drugs will fundamentally alter that.


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rahz

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28281902 - 04/17/23 10:32 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

To use the US as an example, they don't have progressive policies, so yah, the wealth gap grows.

There sure are a lot of  complexities and nuances to gender identity. I would ask if you can elaborate on why you believe it is a mental illness or a delusion. I think it is important to emphasise the importance of respecting individual autonomy and allowing people to express themselves in a way that feels authentic and true to them.

I used to not understand how someone could actually consider themselves transgender, and there was a girl transitioning into a male that I found attractive and made out with a few times. In my mind she was a girl, in his mind he wasn't, and it only really struck me when he said he said only did anal because he was a guy. This was before he began hormone therapy and now he looks more masculine.

It took me going through this experience to realise how heartfelt and genuine the gender identity of people really are, and I came out of it with a lot more respect and understanding for what he was going through.

I have no issue calling someone a he or a she if that's their preference, but I don't do pronouns and will never call someone it or they because it is derogatory in my view.

The high suicide rate among transgender individuals is not solely caused by dysphoria or the desire to change their bodies, but is also influenced by social stigmatisation, discrimination, and lack of support.

There is a financial aspect to the medical treatment of transgender individuals, but I think it is unfair to suggest that medical and pharmaceutical industries are pushing the idea of gender dysphoria solely for financial gain, because the genuine desire to transition comes from the individual and not from external forces.

There are age limits for gender conforming surgeries and thorough psychological evaluations that take place, and as pointed to earlier there's about a 1% rate of regret, with some of them looking to reversals.

In regard to adolescents, I think you're referring to hormone therapy and I definitely think there's room for debate around appropriate treatments because when started at an early age it can have long lasting or irreversible effects on their development. I don't think medical intervention for gender dysphoria is the norm though, I mean medical professionals have strict guidelines and protocols for treating gender dysphoria in children. Sometimes treatment just involves providing them with the tools and resources to help them feel more comfortable and accepted in their own bodies.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28282207 - 04/17/23 02:55 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

It's not a US only issue

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/11/australias-richest-captured-93-of-economic-growth-between-2009-financial-crisis-and-covid-paper-shows

https://www.cpacanada.ca/en/public-interest/public-policy-government-relations/economic-policy-research/income-inequality-canada

Or a Western issue

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2020-12-24/china-has-a-huge-wealth-gap-problem-and-it-s-getting-worse

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-confronts-rising-inequality-after-abenomics-2021-10-12/

Outside the bounds of rich modern nations the same problem is apparent.

Quote:

I would ask if you can elaborate on why you believe it is a mental illness or a delusion.




Because it's not generally a gender issue. It's a sex issue. Body dysmorphia is essentially a mental illness and when a person believes they are or should be a sex they are not it's delusional.

Suggesting this in the context of an adult issue doesn't mean a de facto lack of compassion or that people shouldn't have the right to their liberty, but pediatric gender clinics aren't specifically psychological therapy centers. They either employ or refer to endocrinologists and the anecdotal evidence I've read suggests the guidelines and protocols you mention can be safely ignored.

Regarding the 1% figure you cite, I'll guess my sig quote is relevant and the situation has not yet matured. Add in the younger and younger ages at which treatment begins and I'll guess that number will eventually be substantially higher.

Reading page 22 of the March principles I linked earlier doesn't exactly instill further confidence that these policy makers have the interest of children in mind.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28282267 - 04/17/23 03:40 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

I could say that about people who believe they are going to heaven.
they are delusional

maybe instead of denying heaven bound souls their sex changes we should help everyone who thinks they are going to heaven to get there.

sometimes you can say brilliant things.
and dig up the numbers to back up all kinds of delusional crap.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28282305 - 04/17/23 04:06 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

And again, a big concern isn't about adults but children.




Recently I was talking to an 75-year-old friend of 8 years.  She told me her six-year-old nephew became trans when he was three years old.  The three-year-old boy insisted he was a girl and eventually the parents and the rest of the family decided the boy was to be called a girl.

I met a mother last fall who introduced me to her two kids aged four and five years old.  She told me, "My children are non-binary".  How confusing this must be to children.  The mother appeared very proud to tell me her kids are non-binary.  They kids just stared at the ground. 

Kids live in a fantasy world of dragons, tooth fairies, Tinker Bell, Yu-Gi-Oh! characters, and Peter Pan.  Imagine if some parents supported their son identifying as a medieval dragon.  That would seem crazy.  We used to call this "make believe", where you can be anything you want in the story.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28282425 - 04/17/23 04:58 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

transitioning is not a trifle, and the signs are not the same across the board.

At thirteen I sat only with the girls exclusively for lunch, I had nothing to do with boys or sports or clubs. I did not want to fit in or compete.

But at seven I had nothing to do with girls. I think it maybe had to do with the products they fussed with or how their parents treated them. I played with my brothers or boys on the street. Obviously I got over it.

I was not looking for attention, however I must say people gave me space as they did not know what to expect from a gentle person who walks away from the assigned flock or from assumed norms.

being a bit off-norm sexually before you are sexually of age can really scare adults I will tell you that.

the only thing I lived up to was my reputation for reading biology texts.

Eventually I married had kids, became custodial, remarried and raised 2 lovely daughters who now have families of their own.

I don't believe gender identification should be a public political issue, and while each case is different it is a private thing and may not be what it looks like.

In my case I did not want to be that different after all. I hope that kids will still have a chance to seem different and not have to commit before they are of voting age, driving age, age of consent etc.

We need to be patient to let science catch up with the trend, so that if an adult male wants to be female they can effectively transition even after growing manly. Crystallizing children makes no sense to me. they are too complicated.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28282693 - 04/17/23 08:20 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Wealth inequality is growing all around the place which is why it'd be nice to see specific progressive policies for greater transparency and no dark money or legalised bribery in any of those countries.

I think it is good to remember that gender dysphoria is a complex issue that requires a nuanced understanding. While it may be related to the physical aspects of sex, it also encompasses a persons internal sense of gender identity. It's not just a matter of feeling uncomfortable with ones body, but rather a fundamental disconnect between ones gender identity and their assigned sex at birth.

In terms of treatment, it is important to consider all options and make informed decisions based on individual circumstances. While anecdotal evidence can be helpful, it's also important to rely on well established guidelines and protocols to ensure the safety and well being of patients.

I understand there are concerns about pediatric gender clinics and the need to prioritise the best interests of children.

Policy makers need to carefully consider the impact of their decisions on young people and to prioritise their well being. However, I do believe that psychological therapy can be a beneficial component of gender affirming care for children and adolescents experiencing gender dysphoria.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psychosis [Re: sudly]
    #28282728 - 04/17/23 08:48 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Do you believe in wealth redistribution?

From people who are mega rich and don't need the money at all?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28282849 - 04/17/23 10:01 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
...
I think it is good to remember that gender dysphoria is a complex issue that requires a nuanced understanding. While it may be related to the physical aspects of sex, it also encompasses a persons internal sense of gender identity.
...




sometimes kids behave like the monster their elders are imagining them to be  in order to escape their parents' or school's wrath for not living up to expectations.

They are cooperating with expectations, as they understand it,

becoming the devils that were insinuated upon them by the forces around them .


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28282864 - 04/17/23 10:18 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Kids are little shits.
:themoreyouknow:


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28283412 - 04/18/23 08:50 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

It would be nice. But such notions don't change things. Certainly there are people working for that change but without a critical mass of individuals it's like bailing water in a boat that's still sinking. Even absent modern psychological manipulation people tend to stick with what they know. What seems safe. Even when the world is obviously falling apart people will tend to support it, hoping to survive on the crumbs that fall from the table of the wealthy. The people are purposefully divided into sides so that populist movements fail regardless of their origin.

I take issue with the idea of "assigned sex". As a logical individual I would think you would as well. Sex is noted at birth. To deny this basic biological reality is delusional. It's true that a small number of individuals are intersex but this doesn't explain the phenomena we're discussing.

You are right that all forms of treatment should be considered, but in order to do that effectively it's necessary to understand the nature of a pathology.

Over the past 50 years sperm count has declined 50% around the globe.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/18/health/sperm-counts-decline-debate/index.html

Why is this?

https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

Atrazine does leech into the water and does affect the endocrine system of animals.

MSG does promote spermatogenesis dysfunction.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151728/

Sodium Benzoate, a common preservative is possibly harmful to reproductive health. Not to mention it's converted to benzene when in a solution of ascorbic acid. A study I cannot find at the moment suggests 5% of sodas examined contain more benzene than that suggested safe limit of 5 ppb. Other studies suggest sodium benzoate causes inflammation in proportion to the amount consumed. I'm including it because I remember reading that it has use as a spermicide. While I was unable to find a link I asked GPT and got this response

Quote:

No, I cannot provide a link to sodium benzoate being used as a spermicide. Sodium benzoate is a food preservative that is sometimes added to cosmetics and personal care products as a preservative, but it is not approved for use as a spermicide in any country. The use of sodium benzoate as a spermicide is not supported by scientific evidence and it may even have harmful effects on sperm and reproductive health. If you are looking for a reliable form of contraception, it is important to consult with a healthcare provider who can recommend safe and effective options.




Glyphosate

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Glyphosate_Roundup_and_Human_Male_Infertility.php

Fluoridation - After many years of spiking the water in various countries with 1.2 ppm of fluoride the recommended level has been lowered to .7 ppm due to various studies such as this one

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/

It's also linked to reproductive issues.

Estrogen leeches into the water supply via various sources. Phytoestrogens are in food and seem to have a notable effect on babies.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34801523/

Arsenic is linked to reproductive health issues

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26973968/

Mercury poisoning - we live in a world where we must monitor our fish consumption there's so much of it in the environment and it's linked to reproductive health issues.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30831212/

Plastic from chemicals... reproductive health issues

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-plastic-a-threat-to-your-health

While I've tried to keep this list restricted to chemicals that have notable effects there are many others which are harmful to reproductive health that are easy to argue aren't present in quantities that cause harm, but one must also consider the reasonable idea that such chemicals might have a cumulative effect that is difficult to prove in a lab.

Constant stress and elevated cortisol levels have an effect on fertility. It apparently was the the sole cause of reproductive issues in the Calhoun rodent experiments.

And then there is the question of motive. I suppose that profit and disregard for human health is the prime motivator, although it would be foolish to assume it's the only motive.

Darwin wrote in his book The Descent of Man "Thus, the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man."

Julian Huxley wrote "The lowest strata are reproducing too fast. Therefore . . . they must not have too easy access to relief or hospital treatment lest the removal of the last check on natural selection should make it too easy for children to be produced or to survive; long unemployment should be a ground for sterilization."

George Bernard Shaw "If people are fit to live, let them live under decent human conditions. If they are not fit to live, kill them in a decent, human way."

H G Wells promoted the killing of alcoholics, people with physical and mental illness and sterilization of inferior people.

Margaret Sanger, founder of planned parenthood "Feeble-minded persons, habitual congenital criminals, those afflicted with inheritable disease, and others found biologically unfit by authorities qualified to judge should be sterilized or, in cases of doubt, should be so isolated as to prevent the perpetuation of their afflictions by breeding."

Paul Ehrlich "We must have population control at home, hopefully through a system of incentives and penalties, but by compulsion if voluntary methods fail."

Ted Turner "A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95 per cent decline from present levels, would be ideal."

David Brower "Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license... All potential parents required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

One may argue that eugenics is a relic of the past but not all of these citations are ancient news. As well, post birth abortion has gained steam in the last several decades.

https://jme.bmj.com/content/39/5/261.full

And there are other recent events and potential contaminants I decline to mention due to their controversial nature. But something has caused the very notable increase in reproductive health issues over the last 50 years and I believe that is largely responsible for the gender dysphoria that is apparent now. There are many policy makers who don't give a damn about the physical or mental health of children.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28283885 - 04/18/23 02:38 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Whatever someone else thinks their sex is, is good enough for me, because I honestly don't care. It makes no difference to my life and if people feel more comfortable that way I'm all for it.

I think trans issues are overstated to distract from economic issues that have real widespread impacts on peoples lives.

I couldn't give one less of a shit about sperm count. Even so, environmental toxins are a relevant issue.

Birth pills leak estrogen into water ways, and there are plenty of pharmaceutical metabolites we excrete.

Agricultural runoff is pretty bad for waterways.

Food additives might not always be safe in extended or large doses either. There are several banned in Europe that the US still utilises.

Glyphosate binds to clay particles in soil and is relatively safe compared to the variety of herbicides out there. There are a lot of herbicide free farming methods available nowadays from computerised and mechanical like raking devices to electrification of specifically conductive plants.

An adaptation to fluoride levels seems reasonable enough.

Umm, yeah arsenic isn't good, and watch out for green wallpaper in Victorian era houses!

Microplastics are quite a growing concern. The 8 million tonnes of trash thrown into the oceans aren't touched by paper straws and I think the individual carbon footprint is a greenwashing for consumers to feel better about spending more.

I hope your point isn't that chemicals are bad mmkay.

I think the decision to give homosexual individuals the death penalty in Uganda is rather divisive. Suggestions of the death penalty for abortions is also highly divisive imv. Something that has reared its head recently in the US.

If people want to selectively breed then whatever ey. :shrug:

Quote:

Rahz said: But something has caused the very notable increase in reproductive health issues over the last 50 years and I believe that is largely responsible for the gender dysphoria that is apparent now. 




At least you are being upfront about your own point of view.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28285422 - 04/19/23 01:37 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

It's not just a matter of feeling uncomfortable with ones body, but rather a fundamental disconnect between ones gender identity and their assigned sex at birth.




How does a child develop a "gender identity"? 

If it's an outgrowth of cultural gender roles, then why don't we tell boys it's fine to wear pink dresses and wear earrings, in order to deal with this "disconnect" between the behavior they wish to engage in, and the gender roles of the culture.  What does their genitals have to do with it?

A boy wanting to "dress and act like a girl" seems like a regressive notion.  What does that even mean?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28285450 - 04/19/23 01:49 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

I think it gets projected onto them and shamed into them, I do not think it is a quest on the child's part; they just want to be accepted and cared for, and not sternly told "no" too much. Also blippy and baby shark, lots of that and maybe peppa the pig


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28285476 - 04/19/23 02:04 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

If gender identity is a product of shame and projection, shouldn't that be the thing that needs to change?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28285484 - 04/19/23 02:10 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
If gender identity is a product of shame and projection, shouldn't that be the thing that needs to change?



parents change(?)
usually they are too exhausted.
we have to awaken while still in high school
awaken to more than romeo and juliet, and the names and dates of presidents.

we have to awaken to theory of mind, and to yoga, and developmental psychology.
to understand ourselves and to more easily be in synch with the next generation.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28285501 - 04/19/23 02:20 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

If parents are imposing shame and gender roles on children, and that is causing the child to experience inner conflicts, why don't we address this? 

The parents are too exhausted to change?  They are unable to change?

Are you pulling my leg?    :laugh:


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28285503 - 04/19/23 02:22 PM (9 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

sudly said:

It's not just a matter of feeling uncomfortable with ones body, but rather a fundamental disconnect between ones gender identity and their assigned sex at birth.




How does a child develop a "gender identity"? 

If it's an outgrowth of cultural gender roles, then why don't we tell boys it's fine to wear pink dresses and wear earrings, in order to deal with this "disconnect" between the behavior they wish to engage in, and the gender roles of the culture.  What does their genitals have to do with it?

A boy wanting to "dress and act like a girl" seems like a regressive notion.  What does that even mean?




I'm a guy, by early adolescents that was pretty confirmed. Some people around me also thought of themselves as guys.

There are no cultural gender roles in my view, I don't care if guys wear dresses or girls drive trucks.

I think its a mental picture or prerefence of themselves that some people develop as they grow.

I'd say the whole trans issue is a non-issue thing.

This trans talk is a cultural debate that steers away from economic issues. The amount of people it effects are negligable in comparison to economic issues like healthcare and drug prices. And with a regret rate of 1% for transitions, what does that say about the success rate of gender affirming care? Especially when compared to other issues like having children or more accepted surgeries?

Because having a child has a 7% regret rate or so. A knee replacement has anywhere between 6-30% regret. Across all types of surgery, the regret rate is
14%.

Transition and trans related surgeries
have a 1% regret rate

It seems that in the context of trans affirming care successful treatment in 99% of cases is treated as dangerous, whereas in all other areas of healthcare a 99% success rate would be treated as an absolute miracle, or a good milestone of achievement that shows effectiveness.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28285534 - 04/19/23 02:38 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

I'm trying to understand.  If gender identity is a mental picture or preference of ourselves that we develop as we grow, then some people develop a mental picture of themselves that is in conflict with their genitals?  If there are no cultural gender roles, then the conflict that exists is between ones mental picture and ones genitals?   

Isn't gender affirming another way of saying gender denial?

In this case "gender" meaning genitals one was born with?

I'm truly confused.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28285541 - 04/19/23 02:43 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
If parents are imposing shame and gender roles on children, and that is causing the child to experience inner conflicts, why don't we address this? 

The parents are too exhausted to change?  They are unable to change?

Are you pulling my leg?    :laugh:



It is residual stupidity,
my parents had it
I had it
changing reflexes is non-trivial.
changing habits is non-trivial.
my father used to laugh at me as if he were in a bar with his friends.
honestly, I never got over it.
but I soon discovered that his kind of insensitivity is common and normal.

I was a bit more sensitive, but getting out of habituated roles is not an easy thing to manage.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28285590 - 04/19/23 03:02 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Either way, developed, born with, or otherwise, the disparity someone feels between themselves and the basic genders doesn't effect your life or have a societal impact anywhere near the level of drug prices and healthcare.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28286555 - 04/20/23 09:22 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

The fact Shaquille O'Neal & Charles Barkley are Donald Trump supporters doesn't affect my life but that doesn't preclude me from voicing an opinion about them.  They are racist white supremacists who are a threat to democracy.

In all seriousness, this issue does affect members of my family.  I have a teenage son and nieces and nephews who are being taught some wackadoodle stuff.  I believe the radical gender extremists are having a significant societal impact. 

I notice a few of the adults and parents of 3 and 5 year old trans kids find the whole switching gender thing to be cute and a bit funny.  Some of them treat it like it's a game of make-believe.  Or maybe their laughter while discussing the subject is a symptom of deep emotional conflict and disturbance?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28286605 - 04/20/23 10:11 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
... Or maybe their laughter while discussing the subject is a symptom of deep emotional conflict and disturbance?



it is substantially formative, if the kids end up hearing it


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28286797 - 04/20/23 01:36 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Yeah those 3 to 5 year olds arent changing genders, just dressing up and  playing with whatever toys.

Surgeries aren't available to children so I think that's a moot point. Some states have a minimum age of 16, while other 18. I do think 16 is too young and 18 should be the standard.

So in my eye the entire issue is hormone therapy at a young age which I think is a legitimate concern to have because of irreversible changes to adolescent bodies.

I think something that has a significant societal impact needs to involve millions of people to be considered as such and the hormone therapy issue doesn't reach those standards in my view, at least relative to economic issues like healthcare and drug prices.

Quote:

The number of children who started on puberty-blockers or hormones totaled 17,683 over the five-year period, rising from 2,394 in 2017 to 5,063 in 2021, according to the analysis.




Do you think any children age a between 12 and 16 should be able to access hormone therapy? With thorough psychological assessment, or just none at all until 18?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28286847 - 04/20/23 02:14 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Penny Cunningham and Chloe Cole among others began taking puberty blockers at 11, testosterone at 14, double mastectomy at 15. WPATH which previously recommended surgery at age 17+ lifted age restrictions in 2022.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28286849 - 04/20/23 02:15 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

so the age of consent resurfaces, but also, what is that age?
is it not voting and army enlistment age?
I think 18 is too young, but 18 may be too old for hormone blocking.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28286867 - 04/20/23 02:33 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

I think trans issues are overstated to distract from economic issues that have real widespread impacts on peoples lives.




That could be said of a lot of news stories and I don't doubt it has that effect. But there's a clear trend among adolescents.

In 2021, about 42,000 children and teens across the United States received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, nearly triple the number in 2017

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

2 pediatric gender clinics in the US in 2007, over 300 as of 2023.

Quote:

I couldn't give one less of a shit about sperm count.




Seems pretty relevant to fitness of the general population.

Quote:

Glyphosate binds to clay particles in soil and is relatively safe compared to the variety of herbicides out there.




Also in the food: https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20180815/roundup-chemical-in-your-cereal-what-to-know

Quote:

I hope your point isn't that chemicals are bad mmkay.




The point is that various endocrine disruptors are being consumed and absorbed. It's reasonable that it might have something to do with the drastic change in sperm count and reasonable that the absence of normal endocrine function would contribute to a rise in gender dysphoria along with various other forms of stress.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28286871 - 04/20/23 02:36 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
so the age of consent resurfaces, but also, what is that age?
is it not voting and army enlistment age?
I think 18 is too young, but 18 may be too old for hormone blocking.




I read it as "lifting of age restrictions" in the guidelines I mentioned. Similar to the UN recommending no age restrictions for sexual activity with consent.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28286877 - 04/20/23 02:42 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

We can drink, smoke, marry copulate and all from 18 in Australia, so that's the age I think our semblance of independence begins.

21 for drinks lol.

Quote:

You may need to wait until you are 16 to begin hormone treatment, but you may be able to take puberty blockers in the meantime.

If you are on hormone therapy, you can utilize the health center for ongoing care and monitoring. In order to receive gender affirming hormone therapy services you need to be over 18 (or 16-17 with parental consent) and capable of providing consent for services. There are special consents for these services.

Be over the age of 16 for top surgery, or 18 for bottom surgery. Some surgeons will provide surgery to younger people in very specific situations. Ensure that any physical or mental health conditions are well managed.




A lot of people who have gender dysphoria don't go through transitions, and again those who do have a 1% regret rate, lower than knee surgeries or having children which has to be recognised.

Lead in petrol is thought to have led to a lot of mental health problems in people during the 20th century. I just want recognise that your assumptions are speculative in regard to endocrine stuff.

Where's the hysteria about having children or knee surgeries?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28286900 - 04/20/23 03:01 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...
I read it as "lifting of age restrictions" in the guidelines I mentioned. Similar to the UN recommending no age restrictions for sexual activity with consent.



does this mean consensual child porn may be legal?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28286901 - 04/20/23 03:02 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
so the age of consent resurfaces, but also, what is that age?
is it not voting and army enlistment age?
I think 18 is too young, but 18 may be too old for hormone blocking.




I read it as "lifting of age restrictions" in the guidelines I mentioned. Similar to the UN recommending no age restrictions for sexual activity with consent.




What shocks me is how you've represented the UN comments with a hysterical conclusion. I only just heard of this and looked into it to find this.

Quote:

I want to read something on behalf of our colleagues at the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS), because there has been a lot of — how to say — malicious misreporting on a recent report on the age of legal consent.  And I can tell you that the report released by the International Commission of Jurists in March has recently been misrepresented on a number of websites.  It did not call for the decriminalization of sex with children, nor did it call for the abolition of the age of consent. The International Commission of Jurists report set out legal principles to guide the application of the international human rights law to criminal law across a range of issues.  In the application of law, it is recognized that criminal sanctions are not appropriate against adolescents of similar ages for consensual non-exploitative sexual activity.  So, too, it is recognized that adolescents should not be prevented from accessing health services, which protect them.  The UN is resolute in fighting the sexual exploitation of children, upholds that sexual exploitation and abuse of children is a crime, and supports countries to protect children.

https://press.un.org/en/2023/db230418.doc.htm




The disparity between our approach would be good to highlight. How we came to our differing views.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28286946 - 04/20/23 03:32 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

I read the text of the recommendation

"Moreover, sexual conduct involving persons below the domestically prescribed
minimum age of consent to sex may be consensual in fact, if not in law. In this
context, the enforcement of criminal law should reflect the rights and capacity of
persons under 18 years of age to make decisions about engaging in consensual
sexual conduct and their right to be heard in matters concerning them."


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28286989 - 04/20/23 04:11 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

But you didn't look into it yourself to try and verify whether the hysterical conclusion you came to had any merit. Or atleast I think you threw nuance and context to the wind to form a misrepresentation of the report that aligned with a hysterical outcome.

And again, where's the hysteria in having children or knee surgeries?


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Edited by sudly (04/20/23 04:21 PM)


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28287078 - 04/20/23 05:05 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

right so minors can have consensual sex with minors only
and i suppose the definition of consent means that it is not (a) setup by non-minor(s). i.e child porn remains illegal.
this lack of involvement of non-minors would this also restrict surgery by non minors, but not consensual surgery of minors by minors (who are surgeons.) except in the case of emergency surgery to treat acute conditions.

I suppose there are a number of trust issues across the boards.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28287104 - 04/20/23 05:19 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

I think it's suggesting that treating adolescents that interact with other adolescents with criminal sanctions can have unintended or more negative consequences than may be necessary.

I think above 18 whatever surgery is taken is between the individual and their medical professionals because be it a transition, a knee surger or having a child, not everyone will be happy the the outcome of their decisions, but at least by 18 I think they are able to express a level of personal responsibility that enables them to make such choices for themselves.

Not sure if you're suggesting children performing surgery on other children, but I would say that's pretty obviously not going to happen.

Social pressure is a real issue though and I think kids should be reassured and educated to not follow the crowd or do something they don't want to because their friends or peers are.

Mental health and general support for adolescents of any kind is vital imo.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28287132 - 04/20/23 05:37 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

The nuance in the source material is the issue. Presumption of consent will effect how laws are changed in the future regardless of what someone says about it in a news article.

I assume dissatisfaction with knee surgery is due to the surgery not providing the expected benefit. There's a chance that will happen. There is zero chance a man can be surgically altered into a woman. While I have stated it's not a liberty issue I do find it disconcerting that this delusional premise is promoted, and more often to children. It's also making it's way into women's sports, their private spaces, sleeping quarters, etc. Here in America, men are women of the year.

And while I don't have data to provide proof endocrine disruptors are specifically disrupting human biology en masse, I provided links showing it's in our food, often at levels above safe limits. It's not proven objectively responsible for the remarkable reduction in sperm count, but it's not a bad guess. And if it's wrong, we're still left with a remarkable reduction in sperm count that needs to be explained.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/soy-formula-feeding-during-infancy-associated-severe-menstrual-pain-adulthood

In this case, not a contaminant but possibly the product itself.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28287173 - 04/20/23 06:14 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

This is what you said,
Quote:

Similar to the UN recommending no age restrictions for sexual activity with consent.




The report used pretty clear language, and it seems you knowingly or otherwise attempted to spread a hysterical conclusion with a contextually lacking interpretation of what the report said.

Again, the regret rate or trans surgeries are around 1% with a greater level of regret for knee surgeries or having children. You appear to be minimising the success of such transition surgeries.

Bottom surgeries make quite a difference for some people, and any hole's a goal does apply.

In sports I do actually take issues with trans people, not because of an elevated testosterone level, because that can be reduced. I have an issue with trans women who have already gone through puberty to gain higher muscle mass than other female counterparts and it's this development that gives them an unfair advantage.

Some formula factories aren't regulated well, like how a few months ago a lot of babies died because of contaminated products in the US.

Glyphosate as an endocrine dysruptor seems a hot debate with less clarity than I expected, I wouldn't be surprised if there were effects from its presence, but I think specifics for now are speculative.

Quote:

We use as guideline the ten key characteristics (KCs) of EDC proposed in
the expert consensus statement published in 2020 (La Merrill et al., 2020) and discuss the scopes of some

epidemiological studies for the evaluation of glyphosate as possible EDC. We conclude that glyphosate

satisfies at least 8 KCs of an EDC, however, prospective cohort studies are still needed to elucidate the real
effects in the human endocrine system.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chemosphere.2020.128619




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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28287214 - 04/20/23 06:38 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

It's pretty clear they're ascribing sexual consent to minors without giving specifics which is how it will be used in legislation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/01/11/child-brides-us-approved-thousands-bride-requests-over-decade/2545951002/

I don't know the specifics of the 1%, how long after surgery the patients were questioned, how that number might change over time, but it's only one facet of a larger issue involving the delusion that sex can be changed.

https://www.chop.edu/news/babies-fed-soy-based-formula-have-changes-reproductive-system-tissues

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(96)09480-9/fulltext

"The daily exposure of infants to isoflavones in soy infant-formulas is 6–11 fold higher on a bodyweight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods"


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28287242 - 04/20/23 07:09 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
...who are a threat to democracy.




Sounds like you are saying democracy is something we need to defend.

If half of all people are below average what's the sense in mob rule / pandering to the masses? They're just going to vote for more debt until we have a systemic implosion.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28287255 - 04/20/23 07:21 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

I've read Mackay. He wasn't talking about social insanity, he was talking about the tulip craze of Holland as it relates to prices going up and up while the market moves like a herd of mindless beasts that are oblivious to the fact that prices are too high relative to the fundamental underlying value of the goods being sold... such as a $16 million tulip bulb.

But yeah I think our society has become too utopian for some, they are displaying "rat utopia" syndrome.

In saving a bee swarm one has to get the queen, grab all one can, box them up, and go. No matter how hard one tries, some bees will always be left behind to die. That's just how it is. To improve the society solutions cannot be aimed at the individual, but have to be systemic. The entire system must be lifted up, and as the mean citizen is elevated with more prosperity, each standard deviation going down will benefit as well. Eliminating rich people does not fix anything. The aggregate is what matters.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28287309 - 04/20/23 08:01 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

In nature the sign of age of consent is when they hit puberty...

But humans believe they aren't mature enough in mind.. thus the age of consent law.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28287317 - 04/20/23 08:07 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
... Eliminating rich people does not fix anything. The aggregate is what matters.



Some rich people make it bad for all the other rich people -
maybe we can get a new category to enable the aggregate to uplift with dignity.

something more fortunate than merely rich, perhaps the philanthropy class,
something that bears both credit and merit.

you can kill a few birds with a good stone in a nice setting.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28287333 - 04/20/23 08:24 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Of course there are bad rich people, and I'm sure that they are no more frequent among the rich than among the poor. Maybe less visible in the middle classes who don't have the opportunity to flex their badness as much as the poor or the rich.

A philanthropy class-- I love it. If De Beers can use marketing to convince everyone that a common diamond is worth more than a rare ruby, surely we could convince people that the ultimate status symbol is philanthropic.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28287344 - 04/20/23 08:30 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

The whole class has to be organized around an Integrity Process, so that bad philanthropists can be sent to Denver on a bus for therapy.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28287360 - 04/20/23 08:36 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

They're saying criminal sanctions may not be necessary or beneficial for adolescents engaging with other adolescents. The way you've worded that seems weirdly open to interpretation which is not what the report was about.

Yeah, republicans are pushing right now to not increase the age of consent for marriage to 18, and to peel back child labor laws too areas like meatworks with 14 year olds.

All you've got to do is acknowledge that knee surgeries and having children have higher rates of regret than trans surgeries and well be able to move on here.

You don't have to be attracted to the end result of someone having a sex change :shrug:

Your first 2018 soy link didn't conclude much.
Quote:

Infants who consumed soy-based formula as newborns had differences in some reproductive-system cells and tissues, compared to those who used cow-milk formula or were breastfed, according to a new study. The researchers say the differences, measured in the months after birth, were subtle and not a cause for alarm, but reflect a need to further investigate the long-term effects of exposure to estrogen-like compounds found in soy-based formulas




Your second link from 1997 didnt come to any conclusions either.

Quote:

The daily exposure of infants to isoflavones in soy infant-formulas is 6–11 fold higher on a bodyweight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods. Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in the seven infants fed soy-based formula were 13 000–22 000 times higher than plasma oestradiol concentrations in early life, and may be sufficient to exert biological effects, whereas the contribution of isoflavones from breast-milk and cow-milk is negligible.




A 2022 study on pigs came to some conclusion.

Quote:

These data suggest soy formula is not estrogenic in the male neonatal piglet and that soy formula does not significantly alter male reproductive development.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8912539/




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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28287370 - 04/20/23 08:45 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Rahz, do we have a conspiracy retweeter problem going on here.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28287760 - 04/21/23 07:39 AM (9 months, 3 days ago)

I will concede that the text does not mean what I interpreted it to mean.

I addressed the knee surgery, and the childbirth issue is (hopefully) an adult's decision. "Sex change" is a misnomer. It's just been promoted as truth long enough that people accept it without question and it's being fed to children liberally now. The social issues that are arising due to it are evidence promoting delusions don't have good outcomes. I expect the situation to further devolve as time goes by.

Quote:

6–11 fold higher on a bodyweight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods.




That's more than enough to take pause.


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Edited by Rahz (04/21/23 12:51 PM)


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28288232 - 04/21/23 01:21 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

You did say,

Quote:

I assume dissatisfaction with knee surgery is due to the surgery not providing the expected benefit. There's a chance that will happen. 




That doesn't acknowledge a higher rate of dissatisfaction for knee surgeries or having children.

With how vocal you're being about objecting sex changes, I'd like to invoke Haggards law with a trans twist and rest my case. 


May be sufficient to exert biological effects is not, does exert biological effects.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28288267 - 04/21/23 01:43 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

the truck and the guns assure testoteronity as advertised.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28288320 - 04/21/23 02:11 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Congratulations on resting your case with a speculative personalism.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28288324 - 04/21/23 02:13 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Dodging the conclusions, a classic from Rahz!


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28288355 - 04/21/23 02:26 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

oh oh oh ephedrine!


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28288549 - 04/21/23 03:57 PM (9 months, 2 days ago)

If it makes sense that I'm wrong about something I don't mind saying so.

I offered possibilities and not just chemical. The other things I mentioned along with childhood trauma and abuse all correlate to either endocrine disruption or gender dysphoria. And being that sperm production is driven by hormones the change in sperm count is a big red flag whether you care about it or not.

I'm not overly concerned with what adults do to their bodies, but the proportionality of gender affirmation and the care about what is causing gender dysphoria is a concern. It's not a big part of the conversation because it would be inconvenient to the feelings of those involved, not to mention it would be inconvenient to the industries that profit off the status quo. I also object to terminology that obscures the truth like sex change along with the rest of the ideology that reduces women to appearance based body parts and gender opinions.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28289208 - 04/21/23 10:40 PM (9 months, 2 days ago)

Still no acknowledgment that trans surgeries have less of a regret rate than knee surgeries or having children.

Just looking for you to acknowledge that is all.

The endocrine disruption from glyph is speculative at best, fine to say you think there are links, but again must acknowledge speculative nature of the statement.

The reduction is sperm count sure is something worth looking into, I don't disagree it's a serious thing if true, but what the cause is? It's alright to say idk.

A sex change from man to trans women is pretty simple. I don't see any issue with referring to a trans man or trans woman as such rather than a man or woman :shrug:

I ain't attracted to trans women, but if a trans man was feminine enough I think I'd be okay clappin cheeks. Haven't met someone like that yet but the idea doesn't rub me the wrong way.

I suppose the real question some people would ask is if it'd be gay to clap a feminine trans man? I'm not so sure on that one, depends if I actually considered them a man or not, but if it got me going I'd tap. But yeah that's one id have to investigate more to find out. I consider myself straight for now, but bi-curious at best?

A legit debate to be had imo.


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28289487 - 04/22/23 07:23 AM (9 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Congratulations on resting your case with a speculative personalism.




Ha! : )


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28289564 - 04/22/23 08:30 AM (9 months, 2 days ago)

my speculations are resting too


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28289762 - 04/22/23 12:00 PM (9 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
The point is that various endocrine disruptors are being consumed and absorbed. It's reasonable that it might have something to do with the drastic change in sperm count and reasonable that the absence of normal endocrine function would contribute to a rise in gender dysphoria along with various other forms of stress.




this video in its entirety is about enocrine disruptors, but at the 29 minute point, the narrator speculates on the links btwn environmental chemicals and gender dysphoria. i found her thoughts to be well rounded on this topic.  there is not an extraordinary amount of data on the topic, but the decline in sperm count over a few generations is staggering!



Edited by thealienthatategod (04/22/23 12:03 PM)


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28289768 - 04/22/23 12:06 PM (9 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Still no acknowledgment that trans surgeries have less of a regret rate than knee surgeries or having children.






having children and having knee surgery are not even remotely comparable events, and then another irrelated thing is being compared to these unrelated things?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28290166 - 04/22/23 04:20 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

The regret rate of trans surgeries is 1%. It is 6% or so for having children and higher for knee surgeries.

This definitely needs to be acknowledged and disregarding it indicates a clear disparity of thinking imo.

In general forms of surgery there is also a higher regret rate.

These different kinds of surgeries and life events are certainly comparable enough and important to acknowledge.

The fact you two don't seem able to acknowledge the simple realities of these numbers is disconcerting at best.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28290204 - 04/22/23 04:31 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

in the least


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28290219 - 04/22/23 04:35 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

A bit of paraphrasing but generally what she said from 29:00 on.

Quote:

Endocrine disruptors could lead to changes in genital development, like atrazine.

Some animals are homosexual naturally

Some may be influenced but we don't know.

Gender choice and dysphoria.

Exposure to atrazine.

Some frogs prefer top or bottom when exposed to atrazine and that's maybe a little hint there's something that but otherwise we don't know and should study it.

Chemical exposure in woman's body and follow children until they're teenagers and ask them. Without that study we won't answer the question. 

Do you think the increase in gender dysphoria is due to environmental chemicals?

I would question the increase.

More acceptance could also lead to more people being willing to express themselves as gay or trans.

Asking if environmental chemicals cause homosexuality or gender dysphoria you are suggesting they are bad.

It's important not to characterise it as a defect. Some people are very happy where they are on the spectrum.

Just the asking of the question has political implications.

Its important to be aware of what chemicals you expose yourself to, even skin creams. The more people can be aware of chemicals we are blind to, the better of we are.




I don't think glyphosate is shown to be an endocrine dysruptor, but there are a lot of harsh pesticides and herbicides that can have more serious impacts from birth defects to cancer.

I think it's important not to characterise homosexuality or gender dysphoria as a defect.

More acceptance of homosexuality and such could account for some of the uptick we see in people expressing themselves as such.

And the more aware we are of the chemicals we are blind to the better.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28290309 - 04/22/23 05:22 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

to be clear, you are saying that a greater percentage of people are dissatisfied after having an orthopedic knee surgery then the percentage of people who are dissatisfied after gender affirming surgeries, and because of this statistic, no one shld worry about regret after gender affirming surgeries?

one surgery is to primarily treat the body, the other surgery is being used to treat the mind.

the hitch in the case of surgical interventions is that 21st century western allopathic medicine hardly understands how a knee phyically functions.  if a physical thing like a knee, where the moving parts can be seen is not well understood, how is the mind to be understood?  how does the place of surgical intervention being used to be treating the mind, differ from surgical intervention that is being used to treat the body?

take an example of a seventy year old man who enjoys playing pickleball, who has been having very non-specific knee pain for a decade, and his orthopedic surgeon convinces that having a surgery to clean up the meniscus will be the thing that gets him back in the pickleball court.

it turns out that a meniscus repair was not helpful for the man at all, bc his problem involved a much greater issue at the hip, but the knee surgeon, who only performs knee surgeries and knows very little able how the knee functions relative to the hip, could not even fathom a solution that is not a knee surgery!

for an older adult with a non-acute, non-direct trauma to the knee, very rarely is surgery the answer to their knee problem.  the individual may be uneducated about their own body’s biomechanical functions, and it is easy to mislead people when someone is promising them a return of an ability, to do something that they love and that they have not been able to do in a long time.  of course their dissatisfied with the knee surgery, they didn’t get to the right person with the right knowledge who could’ve helped them!

i could rewrite those three paragraphs above to talk about an 18 year old girl and breast removal surgery.

are the situations similar life events?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28290321 - 04/22/23 05:28 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

I'm saying it's important to take into account the regret rate of other surgeries before treating the regret rate of gender transitions hysterically, and maybe reflect upon why you would do so for transitions but not knee surgeries.

Maybe live and let live a little more.

People make mistakes, but more so with children and knee surgeries than gender transitions..


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28291453 - 04/23/23 01:41 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

i am failing to bridge a gap between the consequences of a gender affirming surgery being on par with the consequences from an orthopedic knee surgery.  they are not even in the same universe!  i’m spurious how you even drew this conclusion.

can you imagine if you medically got your dick chopped off, and then regretted it six months later, and wanted your dick back?!  versus, getting a total knee replacement, and then deciding that you wld rather have just stuck with your old knee.

do you consider yourself to be a transhumanist?

people of course are free to choose as they wish!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28291461 - 04/23/23 01:49 PM (9 months, 1 day ago)

he's only using the concept to get you off your higher horse, your higher moral authority.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28291630 - 04/23/23 03:17 PM (9 months, 23 hours ago)

i speak and ask what i do with integrity!


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28291650 - 04/23/23 03:28 PM (9 months, 23 hours ago)

Cochlear implants, pacemakers, metal hips, etc. We're already integrating ourselves with technology for great benefit, and I'm sure the trend will continue to develop.

If 99 people who cut their dick off were content, and one regretted it, I'd ask to see the bucket of dicks because that'd be a pretty awe inspiring sight to see.

Like when I saw 30 pig hearts in a lab bin, it's something you don't see every day.

To me it's like watching people jump in a ring with a bull or do some gnarly bmx trick. They know the risks and are going to have to take the outcome they gamble for.

But when that gamble pays off for 99% of the people who undertake it? That's important to recognise before making hysteria around the issue.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28291676 - 04/23/23 03:40 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
A bit of paraphrasing but generally what she said from 29:00 on.

Quote:

Endocrine disruptors could lead to changes in genital development, like atrazine.

Some animals are homosexual naturally

Some may be influenced but we don't know.

Gender choice and dysphoria.

Exposure to atrazine.

Some frogs prefer top or bottom when exposed to atrazine and that's maybe a little hint there's something that but otherwise we don't know and should study it.

Chemical exposure in woman's body and follow children until they're teenagers and ask them. Without that study we won't answer the question. 

Do you think the increase in gender dysphoria is due to environmental chemicals?

I would question the increase.

More acceptance could also lead to more people being willing to express themselves as gay or trans.

Asking if environmental chemicals cause homosexuality or gender dysphoria you are suggesting they are bad.

It's important not to characterise it as a defect. Some people are very happy where they are on the spectrum.

Just the asking of the question has political implications.

Its important to be aware of what chemicals you expose yourself to, even skin creams. The more people can be aware of chemicals we are blind to, the better of we are.




I don't think glyphosate is shown to be an endocrine dysruptor, but there are a lot of harsh pesticides and herbicides that can have more serious impacts from birth defects to cancer.

I think it's important not to characterise homosexuality or gender dysphoria as a defect.

More acceptance of homosexuality and such could account for some of the uptick we see in people expressing themselves as such.

And the more aware we are of the chemicals we are blind to the better.




there is plenty of evidence to show that glyphosphate can act as an endrocrine disruptor!  it is known to disrupt the estrogen pathway!

since glyphosate started to be used in factory commercial farming there has been a dramatic increase in sex specific diseases, including the unbelievable autoimmune epidemic amongst women!

Effects of Glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system: A review

Quote:

Glyphosate is the active ingredient in Roundup™, the most widely used herbicide in the world. Glyphosate targets an essential enzyme in plants that is not found in animals. However, both glyphosate and Roundup™ are rated as Group 2 A, probably human carcinogens, and also have documented effects on reproduction, acting as endocrine disruptive chemicals. We have reviewed reports of the effects of glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system function. As with several other herbicides, Roundup™ exposure has been associated with an increased risk of Parkinson's Disease and death of neurons in the substantia nigra. There is also some evidence implicating Roundup™ in elevated risk of autism. Other studies have shown the effects of Roundup™ on synaptic transmission in animal and cellular studies. The major mechanism of action appears to be oxidative stress, accompanied by mitochondrial dysfunction. In addition, some gut bacteria utilize the enzyme used by plants, and glyphosate and Roundup™ use has been shown to alter the gut microbiome. There is a large and growing body of evidence that the gut microbiome alters susceptibility to great number of human diseases, including nervous system function. The weight of the evidence indicates that in addition to cancer and reproductive effects, glyphosate and Roundup™ have significant adverse effects on the brain and behavior and increase the risk of at least some serious neurological diseases.




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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28291689 - 04/23/23 03:45 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Cochlear implants, pacemakers, metal hips, etc. We're already integrating ourselves with technology for great benefit, and I'm sure the trend will continue to develop.

If 99 people who cut their dick off were content, and one regretted it, I'd ask to see the bucket of dicks because that'd be a pretty awe inspiring sight to see.

Like when I saw 30 pig hearts in a lab bin, it's something you don't see every day.

To me it's like watching people jump in a ring with a bull or do some gnarly bmx trick. They know the risks and are going to have to take the outcome they gamble for.

But when that gamble pays off for 99% of the people who undertake it? That's important to recognise before making hysteria around the issue.




the trend continue, but as always, where is the line in the sand?  will you accept your chip in your hand?  bc, you know, it will be so convenient!

isn't the pool of data fairly small?

how many people do you personally know that have had their dick chopped off or other gender affirming surgery?

on yt, i did see a person who kept their uterus in a jar of formaldehyde after they had it removed!


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28291742 - 04/23/23 04:05 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
Quote:

sudly said:
A bit of paraphrasing but generally what she said from 29:00 on.

Quote:

Endocrine disruptors could lead to changes in genital development, like atrazine.

Some animals are homosexual naturally

Some may be influenced but we don't know.

Gender choice and dysphoria.

Exposure to atrazine.

Some frogs prefer top or bottom when exposed to atrazine and that's maybe a little hint there's something that but otherwise we don't know and should study it.

Chemical exposure in woman's body and follow children until they're teenagers and ask them. Without that study we won't answer the question. 

Do you think the increase in gender dysphoria is due to environmental chemicals?

I would question the increase.

More acceptance could also lead to more people being willing to express themselves as gay or trans.

Asking if environmental chemicals cause homosexuality or gender dysphoria you are suggesting they are bad.

It's important not to characterise it as a defect. Some people are very happy where they are on the spectrum.

Just the asking of the question has political implications.

Its important to be aware of what chemicals you expose yourself to, even skin creams. The more people can be aware of chemicals we are blind to, the better of we are.




I don't think glyphosate is shown to be an endocrine dysruptor, but there are a lot of harsh pesticides and herbicides that can have more serious impacts from birth defects to cancer.

I think it's important not to characterise homosexuality or gender dysphoria as a defect.

More acceptance of homosexuality and such could account for some of the uptick we see in people expressing themselves as such.

And the more aware we are of the chemicals we are blind to the better.




there is plenty of evidence to show that glyphosphate can act as an endrocrine disruptor!  it is known to disrupt the estrogen pathway!

since glyphosate started to be used in factory commercial farming there has been a dramatic increase in sex specific diseases, including the unbelievable autoimmune epidemic amongst women!

Effects of Glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system: A review

Quote:

Glyphosate is the active ingredient in Roundup™, the most widely used herbicide in the world. Glyphosate targets an essential enzyme in plants that is not found in animals. However, both glyphosate and Roundup™ are rated as Group 2 A, probably human carcinogens, and also have documented effects on reproduction, acting as endocrine disruptive chemicals. We have reviewed reports of the effects of glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system function. As with several other herbicides, Roundup™ exposure has been associated with an increased risk of Parkinson's Disease and death of neurons in the substantia nigra. There is also some evidence implicating Roundup™ in elevated risk of autism. Other studies have shown the effects of Roundup™ on synaptic transmission in animal and cellular studies. The major mechanism of action appears to be oxidative stress, accompanied by mitochondrial dysfunction. In addition, some gut bacteria utilize the enzyme used by plants, and glyphosate and Roundup™ use has been shown to alter the gut microbiome. There is a large and growing body of evidence that the gut microbiome alters susceptibility to great number of human diseases, including nervous system function. The weight of the evidence indicates that in addition to cancer and reproductive effects, glyphosate and Roundup™ have significant adverse effects on the brain and behavior and increase the risk of at least some serious neurological diseases.







Okay thanks, looks like there is evidence suggesting Glyphosate has impacts on endocrine systems but I'm not sure it's clear to what extent, with what concentrations and how other factors interplay, but it seems a serious issue worth considering.

Quote:

Conclusion and future directions

While there is a significant body of evidence that glyphosate and BHs are likely human carcinogens (IARC, 2015) and have adverse reproductive effects (Milesi et al., 2021), whether current concentrations in foods and drinks pose a hazard to the mammalian nervous system is less clear. Both have been found to have reproducible effects on nervous system function, but most cellular and animal studies were done at concentrations unlikely to be found in humans. However, as information grows

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envres.2022.113933




Quote:

senting high potential for human exposure. Recently, a debate was raised on glyphosate risks to human health due to conflicting views over its potential carcinogenic and endocrine disruptive properties. Results from regulatory guideline studies, reports from Regulatory Agencies, and some literature studies point to a lack of endocrine disrupting properties of the active ingredient glyphosate. On the other hand, many in vivo and in vitro studies, using different experimental model systems, have demonstrated that GBHs can disrupt certain hormonal signaling pathways with impacts on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis and other organ systems. Importantly, several studies showed that technical-grade glyphosate is less toxic than formulated GBHs, indicating that the mixture of the active ingredient and formulants can have cumulative effects on endocrine and reproductive endpoints, which requires special attention from Regulatory Agencies. In this mini-review, we discuss the controversies related to endocrine-disrupting properties of technical-grade glyphosate and GBHs emphasizing the reproductive system and its implications for human health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8006305/




Quote:

Numerous evidences have alerted on the toxic effects of the exposure to glyphosate on living organisms. Glyphosate is the herbicide most used in crops such as maize and soybean worldwide, which implies that several non-target species are at a high risk of exposure. Although the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA-USA) has reaffirmed that glyphosate is safe for users, there are controversial studies that question this statement. Some of the reported effects are due to exposure to high doses; however, recent evidences have shown that exposure to low doses could also alter the development of the female reproductive tract, with consequences on fertility. Different animal models of exposure to glyphosate or glyphosate-based herbicides (GBHs) have shown that the effects on the female reproductive tract may be related to the potential and/or mechanisms of actions of an endocrine-disrupting compound. Studies have also demonstrated that the exposure to GBHs alters the development and differentiation of ovarian follicles and uterus, affecting fertility when animals are exposed before puberty. In addition, exposure to GBHs during gestation could alter the development of the offspring (F1 and F2). The main mechanism described associated with the endocrine-disrupting effect of GBHs is the modulation of estrogen receptors and molecules involved in the estrogenic pathways. This review summarizes the endocrine-disrupting effects of exposure to glyphosate and GBHs at low or "environmentally relevant" doses in the female reproductive tissues. Data suggesting that, at low doses, GBHs may have adverse effects on the female reproductive tract fertility are discussed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32659439/




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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28291750 - 04/23/23 04:07 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
i am failing to bridge a gap between the consequences of a gender affirming surgery being on par with the consequences from an orthopedic knee surgery.  they are not even in the same universe!  i’m spurious how you even drew this conclusion.

can you imagine if you medically got your dick chopped off, and then regretted it six months later, and wanted your dick back?!  versus, getting a total knee replacement, and then deciding that you wld rather have just stuck with your old knee.

do you consider yourself to be a transhumanist?

people of course are free to choose as they wish!




Youre absolutely spot on here bro!


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28291773 - 04/23/23 04:16 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Cochlear implants, pacemakers, metal hips, etc. We're already integrating ourselves with technology for great benefit, and I'm sure the trend will continue to develop.

If 99 people who cut their dick off were content, and one regretted it, I'd ask to see the bucket of dicks because that'd be a pretty awe inspiring sight to see.

Like when I saw 30 pig hearts in a lab bin, it's something you don't see every day.

To me it's like watching people jump in a ring with a bull or do some gnarly bmx trick. They know the risks and are going to have to take the outcome they gamble for.

But when that gamble pays off for 99% of the people who undertake it? That's important to recognise before making hysteria around the issue.




the trend continue, but as always, where is the line in the sand?  will you accept your chip in your hand?  bc, you know, it will be so convenient!

isn't the pool of data fairly small?

how many people do you personally know that have had their dick chopped off or other gender affirming surgery?

on yt, i did see a person who kept their uterus in a jar of formaldehyde after they had it removed!




I think the line is the sand is 18 for surgeries and maybe 18/16 for hormone therapy, although I'm not clear on what age puberty blockers are ideal.

But for tech implants, my line in the sand is whatever passes the ethics board and proves beneficial.

What would your ideal be, no transitions at all? Or just clearer age limits.

Isn't the whole trend of transgenderism relatively small.. growing maybe with more acceptance. 

I know people who removed their breasts, grew a beard and are more comfortable than they used to be. You would never know he's a trans man from the outside. And there in lies some risk too, because you don't know how your body will turn out if it'll make them look like the man or woman they want to look like, or at least would be content looking like.

I wish schools actually taught life skills like investments, taxation breaks, recognising red flags in relationships, enthusiastic consent, hard and soft boundaries, handling jealousy and good communication in relationships. These are the kinds of things I think would aid in the mental health of youth across nations.

In Australia I wasn't taught any of it and learnt it myself through a myriad of life experiences, failures and eventual success.

Even indexation was never mentioned in highschool which is horrifically inept imo of a school not to even mention to their students going into university. 

Maybe private schools or other around tangle more with those topics, but I'd like to hear about it more. Either way I'd like if those life skill topics I mentioned were mandatory.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28292086 - 04/23/23 07:33 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago)

A majority of those who are protesting seem to be of the same opinion. One can be compassionate and understanding without getting involved in helping kids decide if they're a boy or a girl whether by affirmation, drugs, or surgery. Conflating sex and gender is delusional. People in the gay community are starting to speak out about it. Women are starting to speak out about it.

https://www.gaysagainstgroomers.com

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/04/10/i-supported-trans-ideology-until-i-couldnt-anymore


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28292427 - 04/24/23 04:57 AM (9 months, 9 hours ago)

like seeks like?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28292463 - 04/24/23 05:51 AM (9 months, 8 hours ago)

While I understand the concerns about violence, being transgender is not the root cause of violence. Transgender people deserve respect, dignity, and safety just like anyone else, and it's not fair to generalise about an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.

I believe that supporting trans youth and their right to self determination is about creating a safe environment for them to express their gender identity without fear of discrimination or violence. Gender identity is a deeply personal and innate aspect of a person's being, and denying someone the ability to express their gender identity can have serious negative consequences on their mental health and well being.

I don't think that conflating sex and gender is appropriate as there are discernable differences. While sex refers to the biological characteristics that determine male and female, gender encompasses social and cultural expectations and roles associated with masculinity and femininity. The issues of sexualisation and medicalisation of children are separate from the issues of being transgender. It's unfair to conflate the two and suggest that being transgender is inherently linked to these issues.

Simply opposing gender theory being taught in schools or the medicalisation of minors without considering the experiences of transgender individuals and the potential benefits of such interventions is not an effective approach imo.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28292508 - 04/24/23 06:55 AM (9 months, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
like seeks like?




I appreciate the brevity of your dismissal.


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rahz

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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28292515 - 04/24/23 07:07 AM (9 months, 7 hours ago)

does dismissal happen a lot to you?

it would not be my first guess to the meaning of my comment.
instead I am encouraging a wind up to this topic with a reflection upon mind in general.
we cleave unto the familiar, that is the way home.

please do not mistake that for active opposition or dismissal.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28292551 - 04/24/23 07:45 AM (9 months, 6 hours ago)

It was dismissive (which is fine) and no indication it was a wind up to the topic. :shrug:


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28292576 - 04/24/23 08:10 AM (9 months, 6 hours ago)

but all have said what must be said, don't you think?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28292597 - 04/24/23 08:32 AM (9 months, 5 hours ago)

I think there are still issues being conflated but I don't suppose further conversation will change anyone's mind.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28292610 - 04/24/23 08:37 AM (9 months, 5 hours ago)

You are the one conflating the issues of sexualisation and medicalisation of children by sharing links that suggest being transgender is inherently linked to these issues.

What shouldn't be conflated is sex and gender, because there are discernible differences as I've mentioned.

Quote:

While sex refers to the biological characteristics that determine male and female, gender encompasses social and cultural expectations and roles associated with masculinity and femininity.




Again though, supporting trans youth and their right to self determination is not about 'helping kids decide if they're a boy or a girl.' It is about creating a safe and affirming environment for young people to express their gender identity without fear of discrimination or violence.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28294814 - 04/25/23 01:40 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Okay thanks, looks like there is evidence suggesting Glyphosate has impacts on endocrine systems but I'm not sure it's clear to what extent, with what concentrations and how other factors interplay, but it seems a serious issue worth considering.




finding the smoking gun on the exact mechanism by which glyphosate causes a systemic dysregulation was difficult, but the evidence has been pouring in, and it adds up!  how much longer do you think it can be ignored, disreguarded, and/or covered up?  the extent of this is unbelievably mind blowing!  glyphosate is not just in food, and soil; it’s in the rain and the air.  glyphosate is water soluble! 

natural bacteria and fungi are being decimated by glyphosate! monsato swore that glyphosate was safe, bc it’s main mechanism of action is on the shikimate pathway, and there is no direct shikimate pathway in humans, however, the shikimate pathway in bacteria and fungi is inhibited by glyphosate, which then interacts with a humans internal ecosystem of bacteria and fungi! glyphosate toxicity disregulates the communication network that supports bacteria and fungi which supports the protein structures not only in the gut lining, but in every macro membrane in the body, including the holiest of holies, the blood brain barrier!

humans must coexist with the non-human species that live inside of them, but the rate at which the genome of the internal non-human ecosystem is changing is at a mismatch with the rate of change of the human genome!

is it possible that those who are experiencing gender dysphoria, that the primary physiological mechanism leading to this, is an extreme dysregulation of the endocrine system, caused by the individuals own microbiome/mycobiome being mismatched with their human genome, which is caused by the natural bacteria and fungi of planet earth being decimated due to glyphosate!?

the real public health crisis (not the imaginary one that i won’t mention by name) is that earth's ecosystem is damaged, and it should be no wonder that there is a very profound cost to human health due to this damaged ecosystem!


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28294846 - 04/25/23 02:00 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

I already have so many people on ignore


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28294850 - 04/25/23 02:04 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Perhaps asking for sources would be helpful. Or disregard. I've never felt the need to put anyone on ignore.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28294858 - 04/25/23 02:09 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

amoung the open-minded conversation prevails!  a dogmatist cannot know true dialogue!

for some reason it was decided that the mass hysteria/psychosis of pulling the (imaginary) global viral pandemic alarm, wld be less chaotic than the mass hysteria/psychosis that would come with speaking the truth!


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28294926 - 04/25/23 03:08 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Regarding the idea that glyphosate may be contributing to gender dysphoria, there is currently no conclusive evidence to support the claim.

Millions of people died at a much higher rate than a flu from Covid.

There was hysteria because it was a deadly pandemic we didn't have a vaccine for. Much of that has died down since.

You're straight spitting falsehoods by saying Covid was imaginary, which in my view is one of the most paradoxically stupid things anyone could ever say.

And then you top it off with more rhetorical speculation.

There is the saying that it's good to be opened minded, but not so open minded your brain falls out, and I think that applies here pretty well.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28294963 - 04/25/23 03:34 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

there is conclusive evidence, through connecting the dots using first principles! paradigm shifts happen when the evidence gets so overwhelming that it becomes obvious! 

there was hysteria because once something is named, it holds power, and a deadly pandemic was named!  without a name, it would not exist, and it wld hold no power!

why do you think my thoughts are too open when i say that humans have been poisoned, and are poisoning themselves, and this is the global health crisis that is not the crisis that you were told it was?

of course, let us not see this modern public health crisis go to waste!  let’s capitalize on it! government budgets, including health service and oversight agencies are dependent on big pharma money!


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28295047 - 04/25/23 04:53 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

I dont quite understand how this thread got so out of hand and ridiculous. But I guess this thread does prove my intial point though, so whatever. :pointmade:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28295377 - 04/25/23 09:25 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

We have only scratched the surface of how wack the world is.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28295432 - 04/25/23 10:10 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Connect the dots.. brilliant, can't wait to see it in a journal. :rolleyes:

You called it a deadly pandemic and question the hysteria surrounding Covid? There was confusion sure, but merited concern.

You said, "(imaginary) global viral pandemic."

By all means clarify you were joking when you said imaginary global pandemic in regards to covid, keep that brain in its holster! 

Universal healthcare would save $5 trillion over 10 years in the US by cutting out the rapacious for profit middle men of insurance companies. And I do agree that it is a travesty when medications developed through public funding become privatised and price gouged.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28296012 - 04/26/23 09:40 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

I've never felt the need to put anyone on ignore.




It's a curious urge that can reveal a lot about us.

It's funny that one brain can find another brain so incredibly disgusting.


Quote:

sudly said:

It is about creating a safe and affirming environment for young people to express their gender identity without fear of discrimination or violence.




I notice people who promote "safe spaces" for some groups are only concerned about certain groups and never all groups that are under attack.  People promoting "safe spaces" consistently engage in discrimination & bias.  Equity and inclusion go out the window. 

They never want to protect the people they hate.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28296028 - 04/26/23 09:50 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

The ones I have on ignore are ones whose comments have a repetitious pattern justifying stupidity.

By ignoring I will not get drawn into a dialog with them that becomes their megaphone 📣

It's a constructive boundary issue.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28296201 - 04/26/23 12:58 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

just to be clear, when i said covid is imaginary, i do not mean that ppl did not get very ill!  i just meant the cause of the illness is different than what is thought!

Direct Effects of Glyphosate on In Vitro T Helper Cell Differentiation and Cytokine Production

Quote:

Even if still controversial, the ability of G to activate ER in vitro has been demonstrated (34, 36), and confirmations also came from experimental animals, showing ERα activation following herbicide exposure in male and female rats (37, 38). The possible role of ER in G-immunotoxicity is strengthened by the ability of estrogens to influence Th1 and Th2 responses, with a promotion toward Th2 activity (39), and to allergic airway inflammation (40). Estrogens can act on immune cells through both ERα and β (41, 42). ERs are involved in shaping the differentiation of Th cells, affecting transcriptional regulation, with possible consequences in inflammation (43). In this study, the role of ER was demonstrated, by the ability of ICI able to restore IFN-γ and IL-4 modulation, and results further support the endocrine disrupting activity of G (44).

G shown a non-monotonic dose-response relationship in its toxic effects against Th. Many endocrine disruptors, and mainly estrogenic substances, display this characteristic (45), strengthening the hypothesis of G considered as an endocrine disruptor. Some possible explanations to this phenomenon could be the cytotoxicity at high concentrations, the different receptor affinity, or receptor desensitization (45, 46).




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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28296217 - 04/26/23 01:25 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Glyphosate toxicity would not be related to a sudden uptick in deaths worldwide if that's what you're suggesting.


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28296237 - 04/26/23 01:50 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

the upticks in death was engineered to appear statistically sudden, leading to hysteria. ironically the hysteria leads to an uptick in deaths!

remember in the early days of covid when the msm had death tickers and infection numbers scrolling across the bottom of the screen?  breaking news!


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28296272 - 04/26/23 02:13 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Again, it looks like there is evidence suggesting Glyphosate has impacts on endocrine systems but I'm not sure it's clear to what extent, with what concentrations and how other factors interplay, but it seems a serious issue worth considering.

Claiming causality for gender dysphoria is a step too far though.

And it's important not to characterise it as a defect. 

And the cause of Covid is Covid strains.

It was a new deadly pandemic and as it spread the death toll rose, especially in places that didn't take appropriate precautions. There is no brain in a holster for your Covid talk.


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Edited by sudly (04/26/23 02:28 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #28296360 - 04/26/23 03:21 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
the upticks in death was engineered to appear statistically sudden, leading to hysteria. ironically the hysteria leads to an uptick in deaths!

remember in the early days of covid when the msm had death tickers and infection numbers scrolling across the bottom of the screen?  breaking news!




Early reports were heavily skewed toward testing of hospital admissions and the press certainly ran with it, but there's overwhelming evidence excessive numbers of people were dying from a respiratory infection. There's no vector or mechanism for glyphosate to cause that.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28296363 - 04/26/23 03:23 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

sudly said:

It is about creating a safe and affirming environment for young people to express their gender identity without fear of discrimination or violence.




I notice people who promote "safe spaces" for some groups are only concerned about certain groups and never all groups that are under attack.  People promoting "safe spaces" consistently engage in discrimination & bias.  Equity and inclusion go out the window. 

They never want to protect the people they hate.




Promoting equity and inclusion for marginalised individuals does not mean that others are being excluded or discriminated against.

Do illuminate on this unfounded claim of yours.


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28296588 - 04/26/23 06:31 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I miss the 90's, none of this was even relevant then. I miss not giving a fuck what adults do in the bedroom. I miss everyone not being so public about thier personal shit. I miss not caring about politics. I miss the good ol days essentially. Everyone and everything sucks these days. Technology has gotten to the point where its like having a toddler with a machine gun. We suck as a species at learning from history. God help us all.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28296640 - 04/26/23 07:07 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

So you started giving a fuck about what adults do in the bedroom..

Wasn't much social media back then, but nowadays you don't have to watch it.

Not caring about politics sounds like a you thing, it impacted people then and still does now.

Technology is pretty easy to maneuver through, some demographics are more likely than others to be scammed though.

Interested what examples you're thinking of when referring to mistakes of not learning from history. There are many, but in this regard I'm curious if you mean in general or a specific one.


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28296644 - 04/26/23 07:10 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I didnt care what adults do in the bedroom until they started pushing it into kids classroooms dude. I've already read your opinions on this and its not a subject thats up for debate with me. Youre either a groomer or youre not. End of.

I dont nessaserily disagree with the rest of your post though.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28296701 - 04/26/23 07:34 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

They're introducing lessons on consent in Australia.

What exactly do you think they started teaching kids in schools that makes you give a fuck about what adults do in the bedroom?


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Invisiblethetruthsohelp
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28296714 - 04/26/23 07:38 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I dont care what adults do in thier bedrooms. I care when they have pride events in gimp costumes in public view and advocate for thier lifestyle choices to be taught in classrooms.


Edited by thetruthsohelp (04/26/23 07:50 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28296762 - 04/26/23 07:57 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I've never seen mardigras before but I know it happens. Don't watch pride events then.

So you say your issue is with advocating their 'lifestyle' choices to be taught in schools.

What lifestyle is being taught?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp]
    #28296991 - 04/26/23 10:50 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

thetruthsohelp said:
I miss the 90's, none of this was even relevant then. I miss not giving a fuck what adults do in the bedroom. I miss everyone not being so public about thier personal shit. I miss not caring about politics. I miss the good ol days essentially. Everyone and everything sucks these days. Technology has gotten to the point where its like having a toddler with a machine gun. We suck as a species at learning from history. God help us all.



Your opinion is your opinion.. but to digress.. I hope you don't force your opinion on anyone.

I for one love and enjoy today's technology of social access and expansion..

For example the internet AND this forum, for one thing!


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28296992 - 04/26/23 10:52 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I don't agree that homosexuality should be taught as a good thing in classrooms..

Lesbianism.. however is up to you to decide..


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thetruthsohelp] * 1
    #28297149 - 04/27/23 03:40 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

"I don't think any truly aware person in the west right now does not see a kind of mass hysteria surrounding the current social issues of the day, .....I think its quite self-evident that the patients have proverbally taken over the asylum. .... I see the decline of civil discourse and the societal decay set in of this new emergent post-modern dyspotia where mental illness is rife, crime is massivley on the rise and trust in instituions have  eroded to a level not before seen in my lifetime."

.  I wonder if the what seems like the world going crazy faster than usual, isn't just a symptom, of more folks realizing that human's decline in decent quality of life has past the tipping point, in the 'developed' world, as well; on perhaps a still unconscious level.

.  Global 'warming', pollution, the attack on women's rights, school shootings, increasing political divide, and nastiness, in The USA, and chaos in France, Israel, Venezuela, shri Lanka, Pakistan, & Iran, being perhaps some of the more prominent indicators, that "Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again, not even by all the King's horses and men".

.  If this were fully consciously realized, by the immature masses, especially those with kids, they would become unable to function normally,IMO.
.  So it seems quite possible that some sort of Freudian repression is at work, but that the stress 'leaks out' in all sorts of disguised ways. I wonder. And if so, then more craziness is to be expected.

.  I'm an old man, and the decay of just another imperial empire that destroyed/degraded its resources, and passed its prime, along with the entire species more or less following suit, doesn't surprise me, as its been in the works my whole life. 
.  But for most folks, not near death, who have lived sheltered lives this reality would be if consciously recognized: absolutely terrifying.
.  As noted by Mr C J 16 years ago:

"Chalmers Johnson ( 1931 – 2010) was an American political scientist specializing in comparative politics, and professor emeritus of the University of California, San Diego. He served in the Korean War, was a consultant for the CIA from 1967 to 1973 ... he notably stated, "A nation can be one or the other, a democracy or an imperialist, but it can't be both. If it sticks to imperialism, it will, like the old Roman Republic, on which so much of our system was modeled, loose its democracy to a domestic dictatorship."[3]  from Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic" 2007" [wiki]


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28300214 - 04/29/23 05:22 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
the upticks in death was engineered to appear statistically sudden, leading to hysteria. ironically the hysteria leads to an uptick in deaths!

remember in the early days of covid when the msm had death tickers and infection numbers scrolling across the bottom of the screen?  breaking news!




Early reports were heavily skewed toward testing of hospital admissions and the press certainly ran with it, but there's overwhelming evidence excessive numbers of people were dying from a respiratory infection. There's no vector or mechanism for glyphosate to cause that.




yes, there is!  but i posted my reply elsewhere, bc it is a coverup situation, and sometimes my thoughts are too off beat to post in this sub-forum!

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28300212/vc/1#28300212


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28300262 - 04/29/23 06:19 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

You're implicating glyphosate in making people more susceptible to covid via impaired immune function? i.e. there was still a virus, or you're suggesting something else?


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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28300674 - 04/30/23 05:21 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

It seems to suggest that covid itself can have effects on the gut barrier, but states that a causality between gut dysbiosis and covid progression or severity remains to be seen. It does however highlight the importance of continuing to investigate the gut microbiota's role in the lung's defenses against respiratory infections.

Quote:

The case of SARS-CoVs:
The conseqences of the gut dysbiosis on COVID-19 progression and severity has yet to be fully characterized. COVID-19 patients with gastrointestinal symptoms have overall more severe/critical diseases indicating the importance of the lung–gut axis in this setting.118,119 The available evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 infection alters the gut barrier, leading to the systemic spread of bacteria, endotoxins, and microbial metabolites.63,120,121 This might affect the host’s response to COVID-19 infection and might contribute to multisystem dysfunction, septic shock, and the systemic inflammatory storm that occurs in the second phase of the SARS-CoV-2 infection and which is in part responsible for the disease’s mortality. Gut disorders during SARS-CoV-2 infection might also participate in concomitant or secondary bacterial infections, which develop in severely ill COVID-19 patients.122–124 Gastrointestinal disorders in patients with COVID-19 are associated with a more aggressive clinical course, including ARDS, liver injury, a higher body temperature, and shock.118 The nature of the intestinal disorders, particularly the microbiota’s function and the gut’s barrier property, must be urgently investigated, with a view to developing targeted therapies. Risk factors for COVID-19 (e.g., aging, and metabolic diseases such as obesity and diabetes) may be of particular importance.125 Indeed, obesity and diabetes are known to be associated with disturbances of the intestinal microbiota and an impairment of the gut’s barrier function.6,36,37 When combined with the virus’s effect on gut homeostasis, these chronic impairments might amplify the severity of COVID-19.

Consclusion:
The gut microbiota is vital in the lung’s defenses against respiratory infections, as exemplified by the cases of IAV and RSV infections. It remains to be seen whether this is also the case for other dangerous respiratory viruses, such as SARS-CoV-2.




Further links to glyphosate seem as of yet esoteric.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
    #28300745 - 04/30/23 07:05 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)



--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #28301320 - 04/30/23 04:26 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Bring up a key point or argument someone made in the video if you want to discuss it.

Generally the person is the product for social media, and I don't get all the hype around people's data being collected because all apps and social media do it, Google maps always tracks my location too but it's kinda neat to see where I've been.

I think a bigger problem than data gathering is banks and healthcare companies having poor enough security for someone to hack and gain credit card and ID details. Like what happened here in Australia a few times recently.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
    #28301351 - 04/30/23 05:00 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
You're implicating glyphosate in making people more susceptible to covid via impaired immune function? i.e. there was still a virus, or you're suggesting something else?




there is no virus.  i realize how crazy and illogical i sound when i say that!

the understanding is, if human endogenous exosomes are combined with different toxicological/stress factors, it offers a mechanistic basis for some of the most clinically important aspects of a covid19 "infection".  within this hypothesis, there is no need for any kind of virus with any kind of specific protein characteristic.

my post will only not sound crazy to someone reading this thread in 100 years, assuming that in 100 years earth is not in a literal dark age and the shroomery still exists!


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28301403 - 04/30/23 05:34 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Denying the existence of the covid virus that has caused a global pandemic and claimed millions of lives is not only unfounded but also undermines your credibility and seriousness. It's hard for anyone to take your views seriously when you don't take the virus seriously yourself.

It doesn't appear to me that you respect the gravity of the situation at hand.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28301462 - 04/30/23 06:24 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Glyphosate has been in use for over 4 decades. While it's a contentious issue it doesn't lend itself to the 2020 mortality curves.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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