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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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A bit of paraphrasing but generally what she said from 29:00 on.
Quote:
Endocrine disruptors could lead to changes in genital development, like atrazine.
Some animals are homosexual naturally
Some may be influenced but we don't know.
Gender choice and dysphoria.
Exposure to atrazine.
Some frogs prefer top or bottom when exposed to atrazine and that's maybe a little hint there's something that but otherwise we don't know and should study it.
Chemical exposure in woman's body and follow children until they're teenagers and ask them. Without that study we won't answer the question.
Do you think the increase in gender dysphoria is due to environmental chemicals?
I would question the increase.
More acceptance could also lead to more people being willing to express themselves as gay or trans.
Asking if environmental chemicals cause homosexuality or gender dysphoria you are suggesting they are bad.
It's important not to characterise it as a defect. Some people are very happy where they are on the spectrum.
Just the asking of the question has political implications.
Its important to be aware of what chemicals you expose yourself to, even skin creams. The more people can be aware of chemicals we are blind to, the better of we are.
I don't think glyphosate is shown to be an endocrine dysruptor, but there are a lot of harsh pesticides and herbicides that can have more serious impacts from birth defects to cancer.
I think it's important not to characterise homosexuality or gender dysphoria as a defect.
More acceptance of homosexuality and such could account for some of the uptick we see in people expressing themselves as such.
And the more aware we are of the chemicals we are blind to the better.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
#28290309 - 04/22/23 05:22 PM (9 months, 1 day ago) |
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to be clear, you are saying that a greater percentage of people are dissatisfied after having an orthopedic knee surgery then the percentage of people who are dissatisfied after gender affirming surgeries, and because of this statistic, no one shld worry about regret after gender affirming surgeries?
one surgery is to primarily treat the body, the other surgery is being used to treat the mind.
the hitch in the case of surgical interventions is that 21st century western allopathic medicine hardly understands how a knee phyically functions. if a physical thing like a knee, where the moving parts can be seen is not well understood, how is the mind to be understood? how does the place of surgical intervention being used to be treating the mind, differ from surgical intervention that is being used to treat the body?
take an example of a seventy year old man who enjoys playing pickleball, who has been having very non-specific knee pain for a decade, and his orthopedic surgeon convinces that having a surgery to clean up the meniscus will be the thing that gets him back in the pickleball court.
it turns out that a meniscus repair was not helpful for the man at all, bc his problem involved a much greater issue at the hip, but the knee surgeon, who only performs knee surgeries and knows very little able how the knee functions relative to the hip, could not even fathom a solution that is not a knee surgery!
for an older adult with a non-acute, non-direct trauma to the knee, very rarely is surgery the answer to their knee problem. the individual may be uneducated about their own body’s biomechanical functions, and it is easy to mislead people when someone is promising them a return of an ability, to do something that they love and that they have not been able to do in a long time. of course their dissatisfied with the knee surgery, they didn’t get to the right person with the right knowledge who could’ve helped them!
i could rewrite those three paragraphs above to talk about an 18 year old girl and breast removal surgery.
are the situations similar life events?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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I'm saying it's important to take into account the regret rate of other surgeries before treating the regret rate of gender transitions hysterically, and maybe reflect upon why you would do so for transitions but not knee surgeries.
Maybe live and let live a little more.
People make mistakes, but more so with children and knee surgeries than gender transitions..
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
#28291453 - 04/23/23 01:41 PM (9 months, 1 day ago) |
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i am failing to bridge a gap between the consequences of a gender affirming surgery being on par with the consequences from an orthopedic knee surgery. they are not even in the same universe! i’m spurious how you even drew this conclusion.
can you imagine if you medically got your dick chopped off, and then regretted it six months later, and wanted your dick back?! versus, getting a total knee replacement, and then deciding that you wld rather have just stuck with your old knee.
do you consider yourself to be a transhumanist?
people of course are free to choose as they wish!
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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he's only using the concept to get you off your higher horse, your higher moral authority.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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i speak and ask what i do with integrity!
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Cochlear implants, pacemakers, metal hips, etc. We're already integrating ourselves with technology for great benefit, and I'm sure the trend will continue to develop.
If 99 people who cut their dick off were content, and one regretted it, I'd ask to see the bucket of dicks because that'd be a pretty awe inspiring sight to see.
Like when I saw 30 pig hearts in a lab bin, it's something you don't see every day.
To me it's like watching people jump in a ring with a bull or do some gnarly bmx trick. They know the risks and are going to have to take the outcome they gamble for.
But when that gamble pays off for 99% of the people who undertake it? That's important to recognise before making hysteria around the issue.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
#28291676 - 04/23/23 03:40 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: A bit of paraphrasing but generally what she said from 29:00 on.
Quote:
Endocrine disruptors could lead to changes in genital development, like atrazine.
Some animals are homosexual naturally
Some may be influenced but we don't know.
Gender choice and dysphoria.
Exposure to atrazine.
Some frogs prefer top or bottom when exposed to atrazine and that's maybe a little hint there's something that but otherwise we don't know and should study it.
Chemical exposure in woman's body and follow children until they're teenagers and ask them. Without that study we won't answer the question.
Do you think the increase in gender dysphoria is due to environmental chemicals?
I would question the increase.
More acceptance could also lead to more people being willing to express themselves as gay or trans.
Asking if environmental chemicals cause homosexuality or gender dysphoria you are suggesting they are bad.
It's important not to characterise it as a defect. Some people are very happy where they are on the spectrum.
Just the asking of the question has political implications.
Its important to be aware of what chemicals you expose yourself to, even skin creams. The more people can be aware of chemicals we are blind to, the better of we are.
I don't think glyphosate is shown to be an endocrine dysruptor, but there are a lot of harsh pesticides and herbicides that can have more serious impacts from birth defects to cancer.
I think it's important not to characterise homosexuality or gender dysphoria as a defect.
More acceptance of homosexuality and such could account for some of the uptick we see in people expressing themselves as such.
And the more aware we are of the chemicals we are blind to the better.
there is plenty of evidence to show that glyphosphate can act as an endrocrine disruptor! it is known to disrupt the estrogen pathway!
since glyphosate started to be used in factory commercial farming there has been a dramatic increase in sex specific diseases, including the unbelievable autoimmune epidemic amongst women!
Effects of Glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system: A review
Quote:
Glyphosate is the active ingredient in Roundup™, the most widely used herbicide in the world. Glyphosate targets an essential enzyme in plants that is not found in animals. However, both glyphosate and Roundup™ are rated as Group 2 A, probably human carcinogens, and also have documented effects on reproduction, acting as endocrine disruptive chemicals. We have reviewed reports of the effects of glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system function. As with several other herbicides, Roundup™ exposure has been associated with an increased risk of Parkinson's Disease and death of neurons in the substantia nigra. There is also some evidence implicating Roundup™ in elevated risk of autism. Other studies have shown the effects of Roundup™ on synaptic transmission in animal and cellular studies. The major mechanism of action appears to be oxidative stress, accompanied by mitochondrial dysfunction. In addition, some gut bacteria utilize the enzyme used by plants, and glyphosate and Roundup™ use has been shown to alter the gut microbiome. There is a large and growing body of evidence that the gut microbiome alters susceptibility to great number of human diseases, including nervous system function. The weight of the evidence indicates that in addition to cancer and reproductive effects, glyphosate and Roundup™ have significant adverse effects on the brain and behavior and increase the risk of at least some serious neurological diseases.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
#28291689 - 04/23/23 03:45 PM (9 months, 22 hours ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Cochlear implants, pacemakers, metal hips, etc. We're already integrating ourselves with technology for great benefit, and I'm sure the trend will continue to develop.
If 99 people who cut their dick off were content, and one regretted it, I'd ask to see the bucket of dicks because that'd be a pretty awe inspiring sight to see.
Like when I saw 30 pig hearts in a lab bin, it's something you don't see every day.
To me it's like watching people jump in a ring with a bull or do some gnarly bmx trick. They know the risks and are going to have to take the outcome they gamble for.
But when that gamble pays off for 99% of the people who undertake it? That's important to recognise before making hysteria around the issue.
the trend continue, but as always, where is the line in the sand? will you accept your chip in your hand? bc, you know, it will be so convenient!
isn't the pool of data fairly small?
how many people do you personally know that have had their dick chopped off or other gender affirming surgery?
on yt, i did see a person who kept their uterus in a jar of formaldehyde after they had it removed!
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
Quote:
sudly said: A bit of paraphrasing but generally what she said from 29:00 on.
Quote:
Endocrine disruptors could lead to changes in genital development, like atrazine.
Some animals are homosexual naturally
Some may be influenced but we don't know.
Gender choice and dysphoria.
Exposure to atrazine.
Some frogs prefer top or bottom when exposed to atrazine and that's maybe a little hint there's something that but otherwise we don't know and should study it.
Chemical exposure in woman's body and follow children until they're teenagers and ask them. Without that study we won't answer the question.
Do you think the increase in gender dysphoria is due to environmental chemicals?
I would question the increase.
More acceptance could also lead to more people being willing to express themselves as gay or trans.
Asking if environmental chemicals cause homosexuality or gender dysphoria you are suggesting they are bad.
It's important not to characterise it as a defect. Some people are very happy where they are on the spectrum.
Just the asking of the question has political implications.
Its important to be aware of what chemicals you expose yourself to, even skin creams. The more people can be aware of chemicals we are blind to, the better of we are.
I don't think glyphosate is shown to be an endocrine dysruptor, but there are a lot of harsh pesticides and herbicides that can have more serious impacts from birth defects to cancer.
I think it's important not to characterise homosexuality or gender dysphoria as a defect.
More acceptance of homosexuality and such could account for some of the uptick we see in people expressing themselves as such.
And the more aware we are of the chemicals we are blind to the better.
there is plenty of evidence to show that glyphosphate can act as an endrocrine disruptor! it is known to disrupt the estrogen pathway!
since glyphosate started to be used in factory commercial farming there has been a dramatic increase in sex specific diseases, including the unbelievable autoimmune epidemic amongst women!
Effects of Glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system: A review
Quote:
Glyphosate is the active ingredient in Roundup™, the most widely used herbicide in the world. Glyphosate targets an essential enzyme in plants that is not found in animals. However, both glyphosate and Roundup™ are rated as Group 2 A, probably human carcinogens, and also have documented effects on reproduction, acting as endocrine disruptive chemicals. We have reviewed reports of the effects of glyphosate and Roundup™ on the mammalian nervous system function. As with several other herbicides, Roundup™ exposure has been associated with an increased risk of Parkinson's Disease and death of neurons in the substantia nigra. There is also some evidence implicating Roundup™ in elevated risk of autism. Other studies have shown the effects of Roundup™ on synaptic transmission in animal and cellular studies. The major mechanism of action appears to be oxidative stress, accompanied by mitochondrial dysfunction. In addition, some gut bacteria utilize the enzyme used by plants, and glyphosate and Roundup™ use has been shown to alter the gut microbiome. There is a large and growing body of evidence that the gut microbiome alters susceptibility to great number of human diseases, including nervous system function. The weight of the evidence indicates that in addition to cancer and reproductive effects, glyphosate and Roundup™ have significant adverse effects on the brain and behavior and increase the risk of at least some serious neurological diseases.
Okay thanks, looks like there is evidence suggesting Glyphosate has impacts on endocrine systems but I'm not sure it's clear to what extent, with what concentrations and how other factors interplay, but it seems a serious issue worth considering.
Quote:
Conclusion and future directions
While there is a significant body of evidence that glyphosate and BHs are likely human carcinogens (IARC, 2015) and have adverse reproductive effects (Milesi et al., 2021), whether current concentrations in foods and drinks pose a hazard to the mammalian nervous system is less clear. Both have been found to have reproducible effects on nervous system function, but most cellular and animal studies were done at concentrations unlikely to be found in humans. However, as information grows
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envres.2022.113933
Quote:
senting high potential for human exposure. Recently, a debate was raised on glyphosate risks to human health due to conflicting views over its potential carcinogenic and endocrine disruptive properties. Results from regulatory guideline studies, reports from Regulatory Agencies, and some literature studies point to a lack of endocrine disrupting properties of the active ingredient glyphosate. On the other hand, many in vivo and in vitro studies, using different experimental model systems, have demonstrated that GBHs can disrupt certain hormonal signaling pathways with impacts on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis and other organ systems. Importantly, several studies showed that technical-grade glyphosate is less toxic than formulated GBHs, indicating that the mixture of the active ingredient and formulants can have cumulative effects on endocrine and reproductive endpoints, which requires special attention from Regulatory Agencies. In this mini-review, we discuss the controversies related to endocrine-disrupting properties of technical-grade glyphosate and GBHs emphasizing the reproductive system and its implications for human health.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8006305/
Quote:
Numerous evidences have alerted on the toxic effects of the exposure to glyphosate on living organisms. Glyphosate is the herbicide most used in crops such as maize and soybean worldwide, which implies that several non-target species are at a high risk of exposure. Although the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA-USA) has reaffirmed that glyphosate is safe for users, there are controversial studies that question this statement. Some of the reported effects are due to exposure to high doses; however, recent evidences have shown that exposure to low doses could also alter the development of the female reproductive tract, with consequences on fertility. Different animal models of exposure to glyphosate or glyphosate-based herbicides (GBHs) have shown that the effects on the female reproductive tract may be related to the potential and/or mechanisms of actions of an endocrine-disrupting compound. Studies have also demonstrated that the exposure to GBHs alters the development and differentiation of ovarian follicles and uterus, affecting fertility when animals are exposed before puberty. In addition, exposure to GBHs during gestation could alter the development of the offspring (F1 and F2). The main mechanism described associated with the endocrine-disrupting effect of GBHs is the modulation of estrogen receptors and molecules involved in the estrogenic pathways. This review summarizes the endocrine-disrupting effects of exposure to glyphosate and GBHs at low or "environmentally relevant" doses in the female reproductive tissues. Data suggesting that, at low doses, GBHs may have adverse effects on the female reproductive tract fertility are discussed.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32659439/
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thetruthsohelp
Stranger

Registered: 03/17/22
Posts: 363
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said: i am failing to bridge a gap between the consequences of a gender affirming surgery being on par with the consequences from an orthopedic knee surgery. they are not even in the same universe! i’m spurious how you even drew this conclusion.
can you imagine if you medically got your dick chopped off, and then regretted it six months later, and wanted your dick back?! versus, getting a total knee replacement, and then deciding that you wld rather have just stuck with your old knee.
do you consider yourself to be a transhumanist?
people of course are free to choose as they wish!
Youre absolutely spot on here bro!
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
Quote:
sudly said: Cochlear implants, pacemakers, metal hips, etc. We're already integrating ourselves with technology for great benefit, and I'm sure the trend will continue to develop.
If 99 people who cut their dick off were content, and one regretted it, I'd ask to see the bucket of dicks because that'd be a pretty awe inspiring sight to see.
Like when I saw 30 pig hearts in a lab bin, it's something you don't see every day.
To me it's like watching people jump in a ring with a bull or do some gnarly bmx trick. They know the risks and are going to have to take the outcome they gamble for.
But when that gamble pays off for 99% of the people who undertake it? That's important to recognise before making hysteria around the issue.
the trend continue, but as always, where is the line in the sand? will you accept your chip in your hand? bc, you know, it will be so convenient!
isn't the pool of data fairly small?
how many people do you personally know that have had their dick chopped off or other gender affirming surgery?
on yt, i did see a person who kept their uterus in a jar of formaldehyde after they had it removed!
I think the line is the sand is 18 for surgeries and maybe 18/16 for hormone therapy, although I'm not clear on what age puberty blockers are ideal.
But for tech implants, my line in the sand is whatever passes the ethics board and proves beneficial.
What would your ideal be, no transitions at all? Or just clearer age limits.
Isn't the whole trend of transgenderism relatively small.. growing maybe with more acceptance.
I know people who removed their breasts, grew a beard and are more comfortable than they used to be. You would never know he's a trans man from the outside. And there in lies some risk too, because you don't know how your body will turn out if it'll make them look like the man or woman they want to look like, or at least would be content looking like.
I wish schools actually taught life skills like investments, taxation breaks, recognising red flags in relationships, enthusiastic consent, hard and soft boundaries, handling jealousy and good communication in relationships. These are the kinds of things I think would aid in the mental health of youth across nations.
In Australia I wasn't taught any of it and learnt it myself through a myriad of life experiences, failures and eventual success.
Even indexation was never mentioned in highschool which is horrifically inept imo of a school not to even mention to their students going into university.
Maybe private schools or other around tangle more with those topics, but I'd like to hear about it more. Either way I'd like if those life skill topics I mentioned were mandatory.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: sudly]
#28292086 - 04/23/23 07:33 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago) |
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A majority of those who are protesting seem to be of the same opinion. One can be compassionate and understanding without getting involved in helping kids decide if they're a boy or a girl whether by affirmation, drugs, or surgery. Conflating sex and gender is delusional. People in the gay community are starting to speak out about it. Women are starting to speak out about it.
https://www.gaysagainstgroomers.com
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/04/10/i-supported-trans-ideology-until-i-couldnt-anymore
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
#28292427 - 04/24/23 04:57 AM (9 months, 9 hours ago) |
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like seeks like?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz] 1
#28292463 - 04/24/23 05:51 AM (9 months, 8 hours ago) |
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While I understand the concerns about violence, being transgender is not the root cause of violence. Transgender people deserve respect, dignity, and safety just like anyone else, and it's not fair to generalise about an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.
I believe that supporting trans youth and their right to self determination is about creating a safe environment for them to express their gender identity without fear of discrimination or violence. Gender identity is a deeply personal and innate aspect of a person's being, and denying someone the ability to express their gender identity can have serious negative consequences on their mental health and well being.
I don't think that conflating sex and gender is appropriate as there are discernable differences. While sex refers to the biological characteristics that determine male and female, gender encompasses social and cultural expectations and roles associated with masculinity and femininity. The issues of sexualisation and medicalisation of children are separate from the issues of being transgender. It's unfair to conflate the two and suggest that being transgender is inherently linked to these issues.
Simply opposing gender theory being taught in schools or the medicalisation of minors without considering the experiences of transgender individuals and the potential benefits of such interventions is not an effective approach imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: like seeks like?
I appreciate the brevity of your dismissal.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
#28292515 - 04/24/23 07:07 AM (9 months, 7 hours ago) |
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does dismissal happen a lot to you?
it would not be my first guess to the meaning of my comment. instead I am encouraging a wind up to this topic with a reflection upon mind in general. we cleave unto the familiar, that is the way home.
please do not mistake that for active opposition or dismissal.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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It was dismissive (which is fine) and no indication it was a wind up to the topic.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Mass Hysteria/Psyhosis [Re: Rahz]
#28292576 - 04/24/23 08:10 AM (9 months, 6 hours ago) |
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but all have said what must be said, don't you think?
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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I think there are still issues being conflated but I don't suppose further conversation will change anyone's mind.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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