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Invisiblebaltazar
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Registered: 02/23/04
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wormwood toxicity
    #2826972 - 06/25/04 07:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)


Im interested if anyone has information about thujone toxicitiy .

I heard something like it builds up in the brain and damages it , is this true ?

Can wormwood extract do damage to our health if used frequently ?


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Offlineneuro
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: baltazar]
    #2828077 - 06/25/04 02:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Never have i heard of a build up, especially since thujone has overlapping properties of the active site of THC, which we have enzymes that break THC down, most likely the same enzymes break (+)-Thujone down.

From an article of April 2000

They found that the toxin, alpha-thujone, blocks brain receptors for gamma-aminobutyric acid, or GABA. Without access to GABA, a natural inhibitor of nerve impulses, neurons fire too easily and their signaling goes out of control.


Thujone is not mercury or lead, pretty much every compound except say some crazy pesticides (and even most of those can be broken down) and maybe polymer plastics (which i don't know how you'd get them in your body anyway, except for maybe special surgery plates that fix joints and stuff) will be broken down by the body in some way as we have an enzyme for pretty much every functional group there is, phosphotase, monoamine oxidases, etc.. etc.. Even more so the strctural similarity to the active site of THC lends more to the credibility of it not being cumulative. That is Thujone does not linger.

The damage done by Thujone may be cumulative (and i suspect it is) that is repeated damage cumulates and presents itself as the deficiency: hallucinations, tremors etc.. But this by no means implys that Thujone itself is cumulative in that the compound stays/lingers in the body like mercury does and continues to cause damage.

Finally i suggest all those interested check out this journal entry by the national institute of health.


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OfflineSillyWilly
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2828433 - 06/25/04 04:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

fuck...I wanted to try absithe but after this post, Im having second thoughts.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: SillyWilly]
    #2828450 - 06/25/04 04:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Occasional use is safe..if you use too much it is not, but you will probably be an alcoholic before the thujone in absinthe gets you.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: SillyWilly]
    #2831485 - 06/26/04 08:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'd bet a hundred bucks your city has lead pipes that run under the city to supply the municipal water, the pipes in your house are probably copper, but the city supply is lead. Tiny amounts are ionized off and are in your system now. Occasional use of absinthe is probably the same risk.

Or if you have well water then there's other things, but they're below the acceptable limit, again probably the same risk with absinthe so long as you don't drink it every day or even occasionally for the rest of your life.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2832135 - 06/27/04 01:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

nailed it


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2832144 - 06/27/04 01:49 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

lead pipes neuro? isn't it a thing of like 200yrs ago?


FH


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Offlineneuro
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: felixhigh]
    #2833123 - 06/27/04 12:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

lead pipes in a house, they are in some houses as old as 100 years, but they are often replaced during renovations. Llead pipes in the town/city are not uncommon, the town/city isn't going to dig up the streets just to replace the main water pipes.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2834639 - 06/27/04 10:37 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yep, my city adds phosphate to the water supply to balace out the lead pipes.  The Green Fairy has been good to me :tongue2:


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OfflineSillyWilly
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2835145 - 06/28/04 02:12 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I love psychadelics but I dont not tingle or will ever tingle with drugs that are neurotoxic or theorized to cause brain damage such as PMA, PCP, Meth, Mk-801 and DXM. Those drugs are said if used in moderation will not cause damage. IS absinthe in the same boat. I know its progessive but lets say I tried it once, Would I of damaged 1/1000 of the part of my brain as if I tried it 1000 times?


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Offlineneuro
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: SillyWilly]
    #2836827 - 06/28/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Oxygen, the dimer that keeps you alive is also what's slowly killing you, hence it's neurotoxic, cytotoxic and a few other things. The catabolism of oxygen produces free radicals, normally not in large amounts, but with the aid of other things they often end up being produced in large amounts. None the less these free radicals move around the body looking to combine with something as having incomplete electron shells sucks for radicals. This is what we familiarly see as the signs of aging.

Thujone is theorized to be neurotoxic with prolonged exposure, so is alcohol. So if you're planning on not touching anything that's neurotoxic i suggest you stop breathing too. Also if you've ever taken cough medicine in the correct amounts you're still ingesting dxm which is said to be neurotoxic but in lowered amounts.

>>Those drugs are said if used in moderation will not cause damage. IS absinthe in the same boat.

I guess you could say it is.

>>I love psychadelics but I dont not tingle or will ever tingle with drugs that are neurotoxic or theorized to cause brain damage....
I know its progessive but lets say I tried it once, Would I of damaged 1/1000 of the part of my brain as if I tried it 1000 times?

So are you warming up to trying it? As these statements seem contradictory to me. Trying it once in a normal dosage will not hurt you directly now or in the long run/


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OfflineSillyWilly
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2838249 - 06/29/04 02:16 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the insight neuro.  Its true, Im sure oxygen among other things are ?technically? neurotoxic in some sense.  However,  saying oxygen is a clinical neorotoxic element like that of MK-801 is a little bit of an overkill. 
For example, If somebody asserted they would not experiment with substances that could lead to addiction, technically, they would have to stay away from food, water, candy, Tylenol, shopping etc. etc. because anything and everything ?technically? has the capability of becoming psychologically addicting.  The likeliness of something like this happening can not at all be placed in the same boat as the clinical addiction acquired from mainstreaming heroin. 
I am just saying, I treat myself as a temple and do not want to subject it to anything that would harm my mind, body or soul.  Unlike alcohol, coke and speed, I feel psychedelics have made me more of a person and helped me begin to understand and explore myself and the universe.  What can I expect from absinthe?  Will I regret taking it like I have booze, and diminish my wellbeing or will it be something like that of psychedelics which will bring me more in touch with my spirit and potential.
(I?m not an alcoholic by the way, I just don?t like it) :noway:

Thanks again buddy, Peace....SillyWilly


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Offlinethe man
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: SillyWilly]
    #2838472 - 06/29/04 03:36 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

absinthe is probably not somthing that will help you discover new things. just look at van goghs art and his life story.

peace


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OfflineLoneDeranger
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: the man]
    #2838634 - 06/29/04 05:02 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone know where i can find some good reading about historical use of absinthe?


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OfflineSillyWilly
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: the man]
    #2838636 - 06/29/04 05:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You cant possibly suggest absinthe was solely resposible for Van Goghs works no more than you can say that Pink Floyd would have never created music if they never dropped acid. Im sure it opens new doors in the mind and will enlighten you in a certain sense but you have you really have no comparison of how these artists would have functioned if they never touched the stuff.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: SillyWilly]
    #2840033 - 06/29/04 03:46 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

any book store, ask to order Bk of absinthe: a cultural history. its a good read if youre actually interested... boring to the layman.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Offlineneuro
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: SillyWilly]
    #2840074 - 06/29/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

>>Will I regret taking it like I have booze, and diminish my wellbeing or will it be something like that of psychedelics which will bring me more in touch with my spirit and potential..

I don't know if you'll regret it, but you won't wake up the next morning with a new lease on life, unless that is you hated absinthe so much you decide to become a health nut and abstain from all things but water and bread (or steak if you're into atkins).

I wasn't trying to group Oxygen with MK-Ultra but infact there is no technicality about it, oxygen does kill slowly. Just trying to enumerate the slippery slope one opens up when trying to classify and make cut off points of i'll do this but not this; and also educate the masses at the same time.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2840288 - 06/29/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Its really the free radical oxygen that is harmful, from what I've heard, not atmospheric oxygen. I believe free radicals are ionized versions of the oxygen molecule.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: Stonehenge]
    #2840599 - 06/29/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

>>Its really the free radical oxygen that is harmful, from what I've heard, not atmospheric oxygen. I believe free radicals are ionized versions of the oxygen molecule.

I'll take it you didn't read the entire post, or forgot what i had said earlier.

To reiterate:

Oxygen, the dimer that keeps you alive is also what's slowly killing you, hence it's neurotoxic, cytotoxic and a few other things. The catabolism of oxygen produces free radicals, normally not in large amounts, but with the aid of other things they often end up being produced in large amounts. None the less these free radicals move around the body looking to combine with something as having incomplete electron shells sucks for radicals. This is what we familiarly see as the signs of aging.

:wink:

After i said that i just began saying oxygen instead of elemental (free radical). As it was quicker and easier.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: wormwood toxicity [Re: neuro]
    #2841138 - 06/29/04 09:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

neuro said:
Thujone is theorized to be neurotoxic with prolonged exposure, so is alcohol. So if you're planning on not touching anything that's neurotoxic i suggest you stop breathing too. /




applause!
i've read my local newspapers saying that the volume of cannabis inhaled is 2x the volume of tobacco and that the time one holds the smoke is 4x longer with cannabis...
i would ask this guy (and the mothafucking journalists, responsible for such shit) how many people per year does cannabis smoking kills...
misinformation kills our souls and keeps our bodies alive...


FH :stoned:


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