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Offlinesyncro
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The Land of After * 2
    #28268508 - 04/08/23 10:54 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

This thread is for all things afterlife or related. I'll jump in with something I was already writing.

I was reminded of the J Ward books I've recently read, never before those kinds of books, but giving extensive views of the astral and spirit worlds, and the setting was during WWI, many souls piling into the astral after passing in the war, their reception and battles for them and many as well don't know they have died, are still fighting etc. - and the great battle between the dark forces and powerful high spirits coming down into the realm to help repel them. Another is an occult narrative I'm reading from the 19th century, Ghostland I believe.

Considered often are elementals and such forces. They have life per se, but are not beings or souls. Some are precursors to evolving into beings; some are imprints left off. They are effects of thought forms, and can apparently be some of the most powerful adversaries of the higher spirit realm, manifesting in the astral.

As said in Manly P. Hall's talk about magnetism I posted somewhere here recently, everything has their own magnetic field which also compose the whole, but bodily organs, etc., have their own life is said. These are considered as well elemental forces which are not eternal as said is the Being. These influences I thought of as our organic AI - organic artificial - yeah. The recent post in the AI thread about archetypes and war reminded me of these pursuits, but thought to put it in a thread as I've been considering.


Edited by syncro (06/05/23 02:54 PM)


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28268534 - 04/08/23 11:25 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

There are two books by J Ward on specifically on the afterlife, the Gone West series - finishing them I looked for more of his writing. Interestingly they are most all around esoterics of Freemasonry, just glancing at them. Ghostland is also much about secret societies and occult practices, their powerful futility where without regard to decency, yet also serving to reveal victory of spirit unbound. They speak similarly to as mentioned Hall's talk, which also is based in Rosicrucian knowledge - the commonalities coinciding.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28269548 - 04/09/23 05:41 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

Cool thread!

"The land of after Death" to many, seems to represent the final say as to whether or not there is a 'mystic' or 'paranormal' aspect to our lives here.
A sort of "Told you so!" that's just waiting to be uncovered.
I subscribe more to the idea, that it's just the furtherance of our current trajectory and as much a part of the overall 'human experience' as waking life.

Just as your perception of the Sea would differ, be you a worker on fishing vessels or a sunbathing beach-goer, your perception of "The land after Death" varies experiencially (at least until you ease into it, which is good basis for some of these topics) depending on whether you've spent your life fearing it or not.

Something I believe is eluded to in the 'Bardo Thodol' in its talk of Karmic reflections and how you should behave in response to their confrontation.

The J Ward stuff sounds interesting, there's a lot of questions that come up around the reaction of soul when ejected from the body during such extreme traumatic circumstance, as opposed to say, lying on a bed in a hospice somewhere.

:ponder:

First off, I reccommend "You will survive Death" by Sherwood Eddy (seperate the author from the work, as always...) if you can track a copy down that isn't too expensive, or grab a PDF.

It takes the view of a devout Protestant missionary in his search for what he would consider to be, tangible proof of some continuation of consciousness after physical death- as well as general pyschic ability/phenomenon- and contains some interesting accounts!
Seemingly tired of having to rely on faith alone to prop up his theories when giving talks to soldiers who- there was strong likelihood- could be about to find out firsthand the answer to these question, Sherwood sets off in pursuit of experiences he can really draw power from.



"As I spoke to enlisted men in both World Wars I and II, in Britain, France and America, and met members of families who had lost their loved ones, I found many who had not this faith and who earnestly sought every available evidence of the individuals survival of death."

...
"But I had found the soldiers of the British and American armies in World War I avid for evidence of survival, especially on the eve of battle.
If I had three nights with a battalion in France before it left for the front, I would take as my third subject, 'Over the Top and After: or Death and What Lies Beyond.' I knew nothing then about the subject of survival from a psychic standpoint, and I had no scientific evidence to offer the men, but heart-hungry before entering battle, they always crowded that third meeting."




He goes on to talk of his Quaker friend who is regularly trying to get Sherwood to read reports on psychic phenomenon etc, eventually getting him on the hook good and proper by assuring him he could show first hand evidence, as opposed to anecdotal/scholarly reports.



"When my Quaker friend felt his 'concern' for me and asked me if I was willing to investigate psychic evidence for immortality, I little dreamed that he was calling me to a new adventure- one of the greatest of my life."

This barely hints at the fact he's gonna get bitch-slapped by an ectoplasmic manifestation at a later date...

"I see what appears to be a solid mass, like sculptors clay. It is taking the shape of a hand- apparantly a left hand, for the thumb is on the right.
Below the hand is a wrist and instead of an arm, there is a rod-like structure that resembles a spinal column.
This dwindles into a kind of cord, like an umbilical cord, which dissapears into the mediums bathrope as if it were the unsevered umbilical cord of a new born child."

...
"I was then rather violently slapped in the face by the ectoplasm. The hands of the psychic and of Dr.Crandon were always visible in the red light or controlled during the dark periods."



:lol:
Get blasted!
:bitchslap:


Anyway, the book is cool and has some good insight as well as whack/fun paranormal studd. I mean, allegedly Sherwood Eddy eschewed the use of his glasses for a number of years in the hope God would just sort his eyes out for him.

That's faith for you...:awesomenod:


Quote:

syncro said:
Considered often are elementals and such forces. They have life per se, but are not beings or souls. Some are precursors to evolving into beings; some are imprints left off. They are effects of thought forms, and can apparently be some of the most powerful adversaries of the higher spirit realm, manifesting in the astral.




These elementals are the forces of raw chaos, IMO and work in ways that are so alien to our comprehension that ancient peoples revered/ feared them with a more anthropomorphised bent.
The precursor idea is interesting, so is the imprint one.

The idea of non-physical imprints plays a lot into CMT (chaos magick theory, laid out in Peter Carrolls 'Liber Kaos') as well as, IMO, multiverse ideas.
The idea that time is cyclical and repetitious seems to fit in there somewhere too but Im drawing a blank on getting it out.

Thoughtforms and egregores, which you mention at the end there, are some of the more dangerous of the non physical because of how ruthlessly effective they are at conveying a message/feeling.
For example, if I whistled the little Maccy D's jingle that comes before "I'm lovin it" many from all over the world would instantly be thinking of, craving or having an adverse feeling toward a certain fast food.
The corporate logo is the same.

Check out Adam Curtis's "Power of nightmares" and "Century of the Self" if you want to spiral about how these powerful thoughtforms are leveraged both to create a fake, 'safer' world in which to inhabit- and the inevitable popping of that bubble into the true world where chaos in its myriad forms, reigns supreme.
:bongload:

"Yet, the things the eye can see are mere phantoms and illusions.
Only those things invisible to the eye are real."
-Hermes Trismegistus.



Quote:

syncro said:
Interestingly they are most all around esoterics of Freemasonry, just glancing at them. Ghostland is also much about secret societies and occult practices, their powerful futility where without regard to decency, yet also serving to reveal victory of spirit unbound. They speak similarly to as mentioned Hall's talk, which also is based in Rosicrucian knowledge - the commonalities coinciding.




I do see this as interesting, too.
There seems to be a percentage among those who are drawn to this sort of stuff, who desire certain structuring and outside validation that THEIR inkling of faith is the proper one and what a good job for finally getting it, here's some homework & a costume.
Secret societies, orders, sects etc..

Not at all intended to belittle all organised worship, study or practise but I think it's ultimately on the 'individuals' shoulders to integrate these more esoteric ideas.

I'm of the opinion that belief- TRUE belief, rather than ignorance with a bias toward belief, isn't some trait that comes baked in, rather, a state which is achieved & maintained only by the perpetual hard work of rigorously testing and renewing/discarding everything you think you know on the subject matter in question.

That's not to say doubt everything you believe, 24/7 all the time, but at least keep your apparatus tuned to the point where you know when you're being bullshat. By yourself or others.

Faith is free, belief is gonna cost you something.

I digress...

What do you currently believe is waiting on the other side of that rippling, ethereal blankie?

:awecid:


--------------------


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Edited by Lithop (04/09/23 05:46 AM)


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] * 2
    #28269558 - 04/09/23 05:53 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

I like to think this is afterlife :sun:

I exist atleast this one time that I KNOW so maybe per chance it's happened countless times before and countless times after

When I think of faith I think it implies doubt too , because at its essence that's not KNOWING - though I think intuition plays a huge role in ascertaining knowledge

Though I think of Ram Dass , "Faith is going from the edge of the known to the unknown and jumping off , and knowing your either going to learn to fly or land somewhere" :heart:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: connectedcosmos] * 2
    #28269568 - 04/09/23 06:14 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
I like to think this is afterlife :sun:





:triplaunch:

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
I exist atleast this one time that I KNOW so maybe per chance it's happened countless times before and countless times after





In(fi)nit :yesnod:

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
When I think of faith I think it implies doubt too , because at its essence that's not KNOWING - though I think intuition plays a huge role in ascertaining knowledge




Yep, faith and doubt are conjoined-twins IMO.

Intuition for definite seems to play into it a lot.
It's why I regularly talk of 'tuning your apparatus' cos there can be a fine line between benefitting from trusting your intuition and tricking yourself.

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
Though I think of Ram Dass , "Faith is going from the edge of the known to the unknown and jumping off , and knowing your either going to learn to fly or land somewhere" :heart:




Fuck yeah!
Shows the choice you have to make if you're gonna play with faith.


--------------------


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: connectedcosmos] * 2
    #28269706 - 04/09/23 08:48 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
I subscribe more to the idea, that it's just the furtherance of our current trajectory





That's as far as I'll venture as well. I agree with this sentiment attributed to the Buddha:

"What makes you ask about what comes after death, is existing suffering. So focus and work on suffering."

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
I exist atleast this one time that I KNOW so maybe per chance it's happened countless times before and countless times after





Yeah and upon closer examination it's questionable 'I' exist at all. So maybe not all that important what happens to "me" at some later date. Refocus...


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Kickle]
    #28269711 - 04/09/23 08:54 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

As a word or thought "I " does not exist ,  it's simply a way to refer to this awareness that's observing the "universe" :awesomenod: if anything all that I do know is that this awareness is present in the waking, dreaming, and deep sleep state , as that is to what I refer to as existing


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #28269714 - 04/09/23 08:56 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Does that exist in the imagined future? Or is this thread about the existence of the "I" of thought after death?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28269828 - 04/09/23 11:10 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

I guess for me it's about stories. The books I mentioned are written as faction, but whether to believe them or not is another thing; they are views of possibilities. The question deepens as well. ACIM for example and other sources say mind or self can go to different times and places.

It reminds me and this also addresses the blackness that CC mentioned in the other thread. So many angles to cover and we're going picnicking, can't keep up. One thing it reminded me of is in the Gone West series, in the astral, those that are helping souls heal take them a to place called iirc, the land of absolute silence, and they travel back into time in the astral, into pre history where the land is very still, and let them stay there for a while to calm their minds and release problems.

I associated that with what is tending to occur in my meditations which is just going into blackness, void. This is ideal to the some of zen teachings, mahamudra, etc. Also yogis have encouraged it's fine to go beyond experience.

Now, when I have more time to practice and can let it integrate, it's dynamite - meaning to say more about that. Otherwise, and this is a superficial view, I'm looking into blackness and concerned it could be a little boring?; where is my vision?

Anyway I'm scrambled right now and have to go out.

peace all and happy easter :heart:


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Offlinesolarshroomster
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 3
    #28270038 - 04/09/23 01:59 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

My thought is that we came from no-thingness into thing-ness "before", so what's to stop it from happening again?

I sort of think there's no such thing as "death", and "birth" is like "death". It's like amnesia. You never exist outside yourself, so wherever "you" are, you'll exist. "You" don't dwell in non-existence. It's like trying to see in the back of your head? You don't see anything. It's not blackness either.

Ever looked back at an old email you wrote years ago? Do you even relate to that same being? He's not "alive" from your perspective now. And, yet, it was you at one point (and in many conceptions of spacetime, or Einsteinian block universe theory, that point of spacetime still exists, by the way). That's analogous to the "no-thingness" we "see"/"don't" behind our head. Each place is just a point of experience from the larger Reality experiencing it.

If you were to take one atom of my brain and shoot it from my brain into your brain, when would I become you and you become me?

Every fraction of a second, the old self of you dies for another self. Where is the "you" who was "you" yesterday? It's like we are constantly being birthed over and over again... We are all one, and yet different at the same time, in my book.

I can't prove any of this, but I think that's the great thing about spirituality and the "big questions"... it's forever undecidable. As has been mentioned elsewhere here, it's about Faith in what you choose / guided to believe and accepting you don't know for sure. Because, we really don't know why we're here, why Reality is here, and what happens when we die. How magical that is!


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


Edited by solarshroomster (04/09/23 02:14 PM)


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop]
    #28270781 - 04/10/23 07:23 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

"What do you currently believe is waiting on the other side of that rippling, ethereal blankie?"

The natures in Gone West had appeal to me first in the way thought is addressed, again, mind as paramount. The astral world described has similarities across sources and testimony. I've considered that, as has been said, each of us is a universe, and therefore the cosmos may be described and its nature accessed through the human anatomy, in a way of thinking.

The experiences described were generally around those of common people, those who have not studied and practiced. Therefore we have considerable time spent in that which is close to earth (and for some, somewhat or far below, and some skipping it entirely), all thoughts around it said to come to the land of after with extensive implications.

Above the astral realm is the spirit realm, and a level in that is a crossing into beyond form, or a more comprehensive unity. The border is termed the "wall of fire". I thought of this corresponding to perhaps the diaphragm, as anything heart level and above are in 'truer' comprehension.

Hell realms, curiously enough, are also considered to be part of the spirit realm and not the astral. I'm not recalling clearly the described differences in the natures of the two involving thought, impermanence, but I suppose hell realms are more purely in the mental, as bad as the astral can be. There are also very high states in the astral.

There is a character in the books known as the Officer, who on earth was not good. His afterlife descent is notable on which I intend to comment. He does eventually find his redemption and come back up to helpfulness.

The author is associating with relatives and others who have passed in the war and for other reasons, and in remaining family on earth, there is a young child who knows of the others' passing and prays for them, etc. She asks JW often if there are fairies, and so part the narrative is around pursuit of such in the astral. It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children. This realm is much like middle earth fantasy.


Edited by syncro (04/10/23 08:52 AM)


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28270806 - 04/10/23 07:51 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

"Faith is going from the edge of the known to the unknown and jumping off , and knowing your either going to learn to fly or land somewhere."

Or landing in a solid state of flight, in one's absolute Brahman body. :strokebeard: Well, absolute is a tricky word.


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28270828 - 04/10/23 08:19 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

From AtmaBodha
"
Realise That to be Brahman, the attainment of which leaves nothing more to be attained, the blessedness of which leaves no other blessing to be desired and the knowledge of which leaves nothing more to be known." :awesomenod::awemazing:

If awareness is unchanging then it is not effected by any attributes of time , as time is in a way a "measurement" of change


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: solarshroomster] * 1
    #28270894 - 04/10/23 09:21 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

"Every fraction of a second, the old self of you dies for another self."

A theory stuck with me that everything does in each Planck unit of time. I've thought that if we can become still enough, or however we do it, we can see and move through the gaps, though that is pretty dern fast, and is there not existence as well in the gaps? I think (agree) that there is no nonexistence, though use of the term varies, and some say beyond existence. To me it would mean something more subtle, but not without existence. ?

"it's forever undecidable."

I think it can become very decidable, but out of respect for others and enjoyment of different viewpoints, uncertainty fits, and perspectives from others can be so enriching, and add to the 'decision'. And although it may seem at times decidable, it is not describable, so how can there be certainty? Beyond certainty and uncertainty.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28272107 - 04/10/23 11:55 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

do the organic artificial parts you refer to still retain the soul? 

there is a war going on for this energy where the control of information that travels between humans and their environment, on all levels, physical and non-physical, life and death, seeks to turn men into soulless machines, avatar slaves.

this is in part the issue with soul traps, the physical form becomes trapped in a lower vibrational frequency where it can not properly interface with the souls knowing.  dying itself becomes very difficult.  this is bc the etheric field, which is the blueprint for the physical structure that it surrounds, has had its energetic programs damaged, affecting human health and well-being.  when these energetic programs are intact, the etheric body can physically journey separately from the physical body, as when one is dreaming or is passing. 

consciousness need not be bound strictly to an energetic plane as it is also a multi-dimensional force, that is able to transverse different sets of energetic parameters, and this is awareness.


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Offlinepsilocybinmansions
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: thealienthatategod] * 2
    #28272150 - 04/11/23 01:50 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

It is for real. We just live in a Western culture which has two answers - belief and this other idea that you're just an organ in your head and if it doesn't compute you, you don't exist. There is another way - trusting your experience. I've suffocated from sleep apnea which almost caused a kind of heart failure many times without realising and came out of my body and went into a far more comfortable rendition of my present life which was being co-created by me very powerfully. A bit like a sim. I had hundreds of these experiences and it wasn't until I did something about my sleep apnea that they went away. lol.

Be very respectful of the dead if you encounter them. They are extremely beautiful. Forget this haunted house, silly angry ghost nonsense.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28272151 - 04/11/23 01:52 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
The natures in Gone West had appeal to me first in the way thought is addressed, again, mind as paramount. The astral world described has similarities across sources and testimony.




The 'astral' realm is a source of much contest for me, in how it 'exists'
I see it more akin to a biome we simply can't percieve/navigate with this combination of sensory-bits.
The mind is still paramount as you point out as it can transcend, sensory limitations.

Quote:

syncro said:
I've considered that, as has been said, each of us is a universe, and therefore the cosmos may be described and its nature accessed through the human anatomy, in a way of thinking.




This is pretty much the "As above, so below" idea or the :shitsintense: part in Adventure Time where Finn has the cleverboy glasses and is like;

"EVERYTHING SMALL IS JUST A SMALL VERSION OF SOMETHING BIG!"

:lol:

Quote:

syncro said:
The experiences described were generally around those of common people, those who have not studied and practiced. Therefore we have considerable time spent in that which is close to earth (and for some, somewhat or far below, and some skipping it entirely), all thoughts around it said to come to the land of after with extensive implications.




Are we talking about what are often referred to as levels of 'density' here?:confused:


Quote:

syncro said:
Above the astral realm is the spirit realm, and a level in that is a crossing into beyond form, or a more comprehensive unity. The border is termed the "wall of fire". I thought of this corresponding to perhaps the diaphragm, as anything heart level and above are in 'truer' comprehension.




Interesting take! A lot to think about on this one.:yesnod:
Although not usually intended to be overlaid in a 1:1 fashion with other systems, there seems to be many frameworks of inner energy systems of the human body that start from "Earthly" (Malkuth) at the feet and "Celestial" (Ahih) at the head.

Certainly, to me, seems to speak to an idea of Spiritual/energetic refinement.



Quote:

syncro said:
Hell realms, curiously enough, are also considered to be part of the spirit realm and not the astral. I'm not recalling clearly the described differences in the natures of the two involving thought, impermanence, but I suppose hell realms are more purely in the mental, as bad as the astral can be. There are also very high states in the astral.




For me, a hell realm would be somewhere there ISN'T impermanance :lol:

Quote:

syncro said:
There is a character in the books known as the Officer, who on earth was not good. His afterlife descent is notable on which I intend to comment. He does eventually find his redemption and come back up to helpfulness.




Transcending Samsara by the cutting/ resolution of Karmic threads.


Quote:

syncro said:
The author is associating with relatives and others who have passed in the war and for other reasons, and in remaining family on earth, there is a young child who knows of the others' passing and prays for them, etc. She asks JW often if there are fairies, and so part the narrative is around pursuit of such in the astral. It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children. This realm is much like middle earth fantasy.




Very cool! There's certainly something to be said for the unconditioned/unflitered viewpoint that kids have that seems to facilitate many whack experiences to do with the paranormal!
This very much plays into my often saying there is a need to treat these 'unusual instances' casually until such a time you don't alter their happening with your reaction...

When you said
Quote:

It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children.


what do you mean?

P.s Hope you enjoyed your picnic and happy Easter back at ya!

:damnright:



Quote:

psilocybinmansions said:
There is another way - trusting your experience.



:awesomenod: I don't advocate "blind trust" IE believing everything you tell yourself but "measured trust" of something undeniable in your own experiences is a way to Spiritual sovereignty while here on Earth, IMO.
The connecting thread between my NDEs, psychedelic and meditative experiences really spoke to the idea we are already "in the cloud" as well as in these physical "flesh drives" :lol:.

I'm not high enough yet, to be saying this stuff.
:nyan:


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Edited by Lithop (04/11/23 02:07 AM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28272270 - 04/11/23 04:56 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

"do the organic artificial parts you refer to still retain the soul?"

The implications in the books, and I think it can be inferred more broadly, is that elementals are without the living spirit being, immortal, yet I'm not clear on their extent. Some considered a manifestation of a planetary personification as an elementary, maybe a different connotation. I think it can come down to everything that is impermanent is elemental then, or I think of it as prana, and everything else perceivable. It is the same as Shakti I suppose, nothing would move without it, its reality based in the immovable Being. 

"there is a war going on"

I don't doubt it. Yet, at the same time, not for the real, easy to say. Keeping it simple for myself, everything is karma. Being victim or having power over it, leaving it behind - there will be no entanglement without a need. And power is given as we know.

I see I sort of just repeated what you said. :smile:


Edited by syncro (04/11/23 05:35 AM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28272284 - 04/11/23 05:25 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

    syncro said:
    The experiences described were generally around those of common people, those who have not studied and practiced. Therefore we have considerable time spent in that which is close to earth (and for some, somewhat or far below, and some skipping it entirely), all thoughts around it said to come to the land of after with extensive implications.
          Lithop said:
Are we talking about what are often referred to as levels of 'density' here?:confused:




Perhaps. I like it in the levels of qualties, tamas, rajas, sattva - inertia/darkness, middling, and pure, respectively.

Quote:

  syncro said:

It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children.

          Lithop said:

what do you mean?




It is said so, that fairies do exist. Due to children - that all things (beyond) are (effects of) thought forms.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28273812 - 04/12/23 01:19 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
It is said so, that fairies do exist. Due to children - that all things (beyond) are (effects of) thought forms.




When it comes to thoughtforms and egregores etc, I wonder how the powerfully unbridled imagination of a child plays into the situation.

'Popular' belief, folklore and media certainly points in a certain direction...


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28273913 - 04/12/23 05:08 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

I at first had some doubt compared to the power of focus of the adult if pursued, but who knows about purity and the mystery. Sometimes a child can out of the blue touch depth that reveals my limitations. And that can help remind that we are as well children, in the good way, in potential to be open.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28275502 - 04/13/23 07:19 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Ok, so I wanted to explore the Officer's descent into hell in the Gone West series. I have no desire to indulge in violence and the implications, and the story does not do so in great detail but to give the jist of things. If entertaining that the story has truth to it, then included is value in knowing these things, not to make fearful, but understanding.

The Officer was a bad man on earth, murdering, thieving, abuse. I don't remember how he died, in the war or by other enemies I assume.

-SPOILERS-
Long story short, he descends into some of the lower levels of hell. He has tremendous will power, and becomes a conqueror of demons, as evil as any. In spite of his rapid rise to power, he lacked experience, and so was tricked and fell into what was said to be the lowest depth.

This is what I found interesting.

Quote:

“After an interminable age my downward course was stayed. I appeared to be
completely immersed in some spongy mass; it was neither firm ground nor water nor
even marsh. It was something which has no real counterpart on earth. It was the most
tangible form of darkness I met with in all Hell. Of course all the darkness of Hell is
tangible to spirits from even this plane.
“This spongy fog gradually stopped my downward passage, but I felt no firm ground
beneath my feet. The same spongy mass was above and below and around, as solid above
my head as below my feet. There was no sound, no sight, nothing, absolute nothingness,
solitude intolerable, black despair, misery unspeakable. I felt myself at last an utter
outcast; yes, indeed an outcast, cast forth alike from the society of men and devils. This
was the end of all my desperate striving against Fate.
“Oh, that ghastly silence! Utter, absolute solitude!”
He ceased.

“How can I convey to you the awful solitude of the lowest depth of Hell? No words of
mine can ever make you realize it. Nothing else could ever have broken my proud spirit
as that did. Absolutely abandoned, forsaken, alone! neither sight nor sound, not another
soul, alone, absolutely alone — with one’s own thoughts. They rose before me and gibed
and jeered all the evil that I had ever done.
“I did not repent then, I did not even feel remorse, but I felt a wild, hopeless despair.
These thoughts seemed to take form and shriek at me ‘You are damned. Look at us. We
are the things which you have begotten. What right have you for hope? All your life has
been given up to evil, till not even the most abandoned will associate with you. We
cannot forsake you; we would if we could.’
“Then again came darkness; it seemed almost like annihilation I opened my mouth to
scream, but no sound came out. The darkness seemed to flow in and stop it. Their mouths
shall be stopped with dust.
I seemed vaguely to remember the phrase, but where it came
from I did not care. Oh, that awful loneliness I would have done anything to get back
even to the whips of the evil spirits above, but it was not to be.
“Absolutely crushing silence. I cannot convey to you the awfulness of that solitude.
You may think that the pains of the divisions above were worse, but it was not so.




Now, there may be qualities to consider. I could be totally off. But this sounds like some levels of samadhi or meditative absorption that are blissful! His greatest dread seems to be, “that ghastly silence! Utter, absolute solitude!”, and the thoughts that he brought with him. But the utter silence, exclusive of everything, is a sublimity! And it has substance to it. Explain this thing to me.

I do understand that there is deep darkness that has dreadful quality. This is something other than just even what seems to be complete silence and solitude which he dreaded. So I can't go so far as to say that his hell is the same as bliss for a meditator, (can I?) but had to note the similarity.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28277175 - 04/14/23 10:15 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Ok, so I wanted to explore the Officer's descent into hell in the Gone West series.

This is what I found interesting.

Quote:

The Officer in the lowest realm




Now, there may be qualities to consider. I could be totally off. But this sounds like some levels of samadhi or meditative absorption that are blissful! His greatest dread seems to be, “that ghastly silence! Utter, absolute solitude!”, and the thoughts that he brought with him. But the utter silence, exclusive of everything, is a sublimity! And it has substance to it. Explain this thing to me.

I do understand that there is deep darkness that has dreadful quality. This is something other than just even what seems to be complete silence and solitude which he dreaded.




Cool read. I do see similarity between meditative absorbtion and what the Officer percieves as a hellish fate.
I think it speaks to personal interpretation of any given situation and I can relate as there have been times in my life, where, the idea of having to be present somewhere in silence without distraction- internal or external- would make my skin crawl.
Whereas now, I participate in practices that often facilitate those same states :lol:

At the same time, it could be speaking to the fact that, if you don't properly get on top of all that shit in your life, then the realms beyond will be a lot less bearable, suggesting liberation from it through self growth and refinement.

Quote:

syncro said:
So I can't go so far as to say that his hell is the same as bliss for a meditator, (can I?)




Depends on whether you're willing to experience it as a hell to compare :stirthepot:


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28277229 - 04/14/23 10:51 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I know, shit! Well if that turns out I think I will know long before I get any where near it, if I happen to be wrong. But spirits do go down to help - one described early in the series was a giant power of light observed surfacing from it, considered I think one of the great messengers.

The system 'currency' is all about helping others. And that was how the Officer was tricked, being told that if he brought a number of souls down to his level he would gain somehow, but it meant his end. Others who want to level up can give help if there is opportunity.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28285104 - 04/19/23 10:32 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

I'm reading in Ghostland currently where folks are peering through some kind of telescope - this is the 19th century, and the writing is kind of involved, so I didn't catch what else psychically they are doing, and that involved with the instrument, but they are seeing gigantic elementaries traveling in the sky. They are anthropomorphic, some of which are described in other contexts as planetary. These I gather were moving for the welfare of something here, beings, in any case they are apparently benign, beautiful.

I was reminded of a time I unexpectedly shot up out of my body and was not slowing down going into space, and a goddess type deity, elementary(?), came to meet me, and with hardly a syllable from her, I was back in my body. I felt inconvenienced, but looking back it seemed a kind of protection.

The elementary reminded me of the Don Juan speak of inorganic beings. I suppose the term does also include, not as in the Castaneda reference, helpful beings, unless in the latter case, they are 'tackled' and brought to service as it were. In Gone West, there was association with a very high spirit from the fairy realm who was considered an elemental, who was close to and needing, or desiring, an earthly birth to more truly be able to serve human kind which he pitied, this seen by him as a necessary step in evolution.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28287663 - 04/21/23 06:09 AM (9 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I'm reading in Ghostland currently where folks are peering through some kind of telescope - this is the 19th century, and the writing is kind of involved, so I didn't catch what else psychically they are doing, and that involved with the instrument, but they are seeing gigantic elementaries traveling in the sky. They are anthropomorphic, some of which are described in other contexts as planetary. These I gather were moving for the welfare of something here, beings, in any case they are apparently benign, beautiful.





Sounds really cool, apart from the involved writing.
It's gotta feel good to read or I ain't gonna do it :lol:

Quote:

syncro said:
I was reminded of a time I unexpectedly shot up out of my body and was not slowing down going into space, and a goddess type deity, elementary(?), came to meet me, and with hardly a syllable from her, I was back in my body. I felt inconvenienced, but looking back it seemed a kind of protection.




Sick man!
There are aspects of elemental, planetary and related energies that really get my cogs turning when I'm on a trip.
Something about the chaos, the formlessness, the utter alien yet completely natural vibe of it.

Quote:

syncro said:
The elementary reminded me of the Don Juan speak of inorganic beings. I suppose the term does also include, not as in the Castaneda reference, helpful beings, unless in the latter case, they are 'tackled' and brought to service as it were. In Gone West, there was association with a very high spirit from the fairy realm who was considered an elemental, who was close to and needing, or desiring, an earthly birth to more truly be able to serve human kind which he pitied, this seen by him as a necessary step in evolution.




Never read the Don Juan or any Castaneda stuff, despite seeing it often referenced.
But I have read stuff that talk of that type of a being needing 're-educated' on what it is to be human, in order to better serve.
"Taking the curriculum." :awesomenod:

I had an experience last Autumn that felt akin to (what I imagine) contact with an 'elemental' could be interpreted as by a human.
Similarly to your experience (interestingly I've also had the sense of being blocked or protected from further out-of-body travel at other times in the past), the 'contact' was entirely non verbal and instead took form of, well here's how I explained it to my GF:

"Felt like non-consensual communication*, jumbled flashes of internal stock footage based around water & its power with a sort of emotional-frequency-scanning that felt like someone was rifling through a rolodex of 'my' memories & experiences.
The only sense 'I' mantained awareness of in this moment was that it felt posed to me as a question, I felt as if I was being compelled/prompted not only to understand but to reply.
"

Bearing in mind that this was several hours into a meditation session on nearly 6g of mushroom capsules.... :rolleyes:
*This asterix was to say, it was NOT non consensual communication- infact my intent that I reviewed the next day coupled with my actions & rituals in the week leading up to the trip made me roll my eyes since it was pretty much asking for it.

Thought you might get a kick out of it though.


Edited by Lithop (04/23/23 04:29 AM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop]
    #28292525 - 04/24/23 07:25 AM (9 months, 42 minutes ago)

Oh I didn't see you added to this. :crankey:

If not making a new post the thread doesn't show updated in index.


Edited by syncro (04/24/23 07:36 AM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28292865 - 04/24/23 11:42 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Oh I didn't see you added to this. :crankey:

If not making a new post the thread doesn't show updated in index.




:lol: no sweat dude, I don't wanna double post all over the place (no offense to anyone who does double post.............. syncro :tongue2:)
I should have PM'd you and said I'd made the edit.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop]
    #28292878 - 04/24/23 11:57 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

No it's ok, I mean you're welcome to, also to tell me if I double post. :smile:

But I was going to say I had a similar experience last Fall, some from journal. Could be considered a dream.
Quote:

I'm not sure if these are in half sleep, but last night an entity asked me, "who are you?", and I said at first, "a yogi", and it said, "anything else?", and it went on and on, me going through experiences and practices, "anything else?", ... When I would give more worldly answers the interest seemed to fade, so I stayed with spiritual experience. It came down to finally trying to express what I was at the core, and not so much about what I thought were qualifications, or gone to the ultimate qualification of our identity.




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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28294093 - 04/25/23 01:03 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
No it's ok, I mean you're welcome to, also to tell me if I double post. :smile:




I would never double post
!

Quote:

syncro said:
But I was going to say I had a similar experience last Fall, some from journal. Could be considered a dream.
Quote:

I'm not sure if these are in half sleep, but last night an entity asked me, "who are you?", and I said at first, "a yogi", and it said, "anything else?", and it went on and on, me going through experiences and practices, "anything else?", ... When I would give more worldly answers the interest seemed to fade, so I stayed with spiritual experience. It came down to finally trying to express what I was at the core, and not so much about what I thought were qualifications, or gone to the ultimate qualification of our identity.







Awesome journal entry, I like when you wrote
Quote:

"trying to express what I was at the core, and not so much about what I thought were qualifications"


:awesomenod: This seems to come up a lot in these type of inner experience.

I think when it comes down to the origin of these experiences, what some mention about entity contact and so on, I'm much less concerned with their 'true' origins than I am with how usable/influencial any gleaned insight is on my waking/daily thoughts and actions.
Of course from time to time throughout life, more so as a kid or teen, I've went down the rabbit hole of trying to prove my 'experiences' or viewpoints on paranormal stuff but ultimately, to each their own :shrug:


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28294200 - 04/25/23 05:03 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Yeah, around the time beginning this thread, I was thinking we needed a mission, like the Blues Brothers, a mission from God, to collaborate and try to prove something or other. But their mission was to save an orphanage.

Reminds me, I think the experiences posted time to time, about knowing when someone passes before finding out in normal ways must show something. Someone posted one recently around here.

When my mom passed, I and family were at her bedside, and I still didn't know she passed, but trying to be still amidst the clamor afterward, looking up I thought there was a subtle difference in the light, which glowed as golden in a love and peace.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28294897 - 04/25/23 02:46 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Yeah, around the time beginning this thread, I was thinking we needed a mission, like the Blues Brothers, a mission from God, to collaborate and try to prove something or other. But their mission was to save an orphanage.



Whoah, whoah, WHOAH.
You're implying, that yourself and a ragtag band of shroomers & stoners COULDN'T save an orphanage?!
:razz:


Quote:

syncro said:
Reminds me, I think the experiences posted time to time, about knowing when someone passes before finding out in normal ways must show something. Someone posted one recently around here.




Yeah, I remember the thread you're talking about.:yesnod:
I reckon that extrasensory phenomenon is absolutely influenced by emotion as a primary factor. In that model, it makes sense for it to be enhanced the closer the bond you have with the other 'participant'.


Quote:

syncro said:
When my mom passed, I and family were at her bedside, and I still didn't know she passed, but trying to be still amidst the clamor afterward, looking up I thought there was a subtle difference in the light, which glowed as golden in a love and peace.




Beautiful, dude.
It's blessed that you were there with her.
:bow2:


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop]
    #28295071 - 04/25/23 05:21 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
Quote:

syncro said:
Yeah, around the time beginning this thread, I was thinking we needed a mission, like the Blues Brothers, a mission from God, to collaborate and try to prove something or other. But their mission was to save an orphanage.



Whoah, whoah, WHOAH.
You're implying, that yourself and a ragtag band of shroomers & stoners COULDN'T save an orphanage?!
:razz:




:grin: No, I'm implying we can't prove spiritual nature by consensus. Me of little faith. Also the orphanage was a tangible urgent thing. Didn't their head nun threaten them with damnation or eternal shame or something? :lol:

Quote:

Lithop said:
Quote:

syncro said:
Reminds me, I think the experiences posted time to time, about knowing when someone passes before finding out in normal ways must show something. Someone posted one recently around here.




Yeah, I remember the thread you're talking about.:yesnod:
I reckon that extrasensory phenomenon is absolutely influenced by emotion as a primary factor. In that model, it makes sense for it to be enhanced the closer the bond you have with the other 'participant'.




Just what I was thinking, also much to do with our conditions and external influences.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28295705 - 04/26/23 05:12 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
:grin: No, I'm implying we can't prove spiritual nature by consensus. Me of little faith. Also the orphanage was a tangible urgent thing. Didn't their head nun threaten them with damnation or eternal shame or something? :lol:





Afirmitive dude:thumbup:
And I've.... I've never seen Blues Brothers:uhoh:

Quote:

syncro said:

Just what I was thinking, also much to do with our conditions and external influences.




:awesomenod:


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28295779 - 04/26/23 06:48 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

I was watching some of it last night, a comedy R&B musical with John Belushi and Dan Akroyd, 1980.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28306068 - 05/04/23 08:27 AM (8 months, 20 days ago)

I'm looking forward to seeing my pets, if that happens to be. I had an Irish Setter, you know when you're like 8-10, nothing is more important than your dog. We had many dogs. And later in life, cats. I have a few cats I really want to see again.

And I imagine seeing close ones from school etc. that time and other circumstance separated. Seeing each other without the pains and such that separated, just the qualities of each other in full, the appeal and the joy, reconciliations.

The body gave us these interactions, if we didn't know each other from before, but the body now limits them so. Without the gross body there is so much joy to complete.

Just saying, if that happens to be.

There is so much about knocking the body in the spiritual perspective, from Rama's discourse on dispassion to the esoteric meaning of the body being the cross on which the spiritual awareness dies, on and on. At the same time it is said there can be no greater spiritual gift or opportunity. I suppose it could be seen like the "I", in Ramana speak, the hinge on which ignorance and enlightenment hangs, depending on its use.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28308650 - 05/06/23 06:05 AM (8 months, 19 days ago)

The principle of bhuta shuddhi in the yogas means in essence self-purification. Some translations imply purification of the elements but better said to me is purification of the bodies using the elements. (Clarifying, the bodies are made of elements. duh me) Methods seem to differ around it. There is use of seed mantras to affect the subtle bodies, representing air to dry the pranic or astral body, and fire to burn the causal or mental body. Also implied in the use is ridding of parasitic or other undesirable influences in or around the system.

I found interesting the commonality in the books on the afterlife. For example, to move from the astral to the spirit plane one must be rid of the astral body. When helpful fellows in the spirit plane want to come to the astral and be recognized at least, they must recreate an astral body. In the yogas, purifying or destroying the mental body with the element of fire speaks to the "wall of fire", the border to a unification beyond in the spirit realm.

I think again of the fire sermon, "All things, monks, are burning, burning with the fire of greed, ..."

It's a different use of fire, but could it connote the same? As above, so below, the principles at work.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28339256 - 05/29/23 10:15 AM (7 months, 26 days ago)

From the book, Astral City.

"I suppose then, I remarked, that the Lower Zone must be in close connection with the incarnate plane even a kind of continuation of it?
So it is, he agreed, and you will see there the net of invisible wires connecting it to human minds. It is peopled with disincarnated entities and the thought forms of those still on Earth. Every spirit, wherever it may be, is a nucleus of radiating forces which can create, transform or destroy, manifesting as vibrations that Earth science cannot yet understand. Thus, whoever is thinking is emitting positive or negative forces, and is, consequently, constructing or destroying something somewhere. It is by means of those mental currents that men establish connection with entities in the Lower Zone whose tendencies are in accordance with their own, because every soul is a powerful magnet. You see, then, that an invisible army is at work behind the (in)visible one." I assume that a typo, one of them meaning visible. There are some typos in the pdf.

So, directing thoughts where possible is creating proactively, thus the value of prayer or mantra, affirmation, ..., or beyond, being, witness, which is purity.


Edited by syncro (05/29/23 10:53 AM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28340692 - 05/30/23 02:00 PM (7 months, 25 days ago)

I don't know whrere you all are going...  But it seems you are being drawn into my body!!:awesomenod:


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #28341020 - 05/30/23 07:31 PM (7 months, 25 days ago)

You need to see about the Astral City over Brazil. At least in the 40s they still need external sustenance and shelter in the astral plane, I mean, really? What's the point of dying? The one in Gone West which is over Europe, or Britain I guess, there's no need to eat food, etc. Perhaps it is a higher level than Astral City, but the latter has high teachers and such there which is worrisome. Still need to fall in line.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28342774 - 06/01/23 06:51 AM (7 months, 24 days ago)

In the book it is much again about magnetic fluids per se, around foods, bodies, healing. These again I assume equate to prana. The prana must span the qualities, as it is the light of mind, but manifests or carries the qualities of thought form from the most heavy upward.

Bodies in the lower astral are described as being clothed in heavy magnetic fluid which manifests as binding similar to the physical body, based in strong thought patterns, attachments, beliefs.

A little over half way through the Astral City book, I'm a little disappointed as the paragraph quoted above is the only bit so far speaking that way on energetics, it mostly around administration and service though the p is nice summary anyway, and there is interesting content nevertheless.


Edited by syncro (06/01/23 06:53 AM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28344092 - 06/02/23 07:21 AM (7 months, 23 days ago)

"We shall always feed on what we cultivate." "It’s a law of life which works for good or evil."

"You’re right! I exclaimed. I can see that life in earthly homes is equally ruled by these principles. Whenever there is mutual understanding, life becomes a fore state of heavenly bliss, but if misunderstandings and unkindness prevail, home becomes a real hell on Earth."


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28346678 - 06/04/23 05:58 AM (7 months, 21 days ago)

In the final pages of Astral City, Andre was able to visit his home on earth, remaining only in the astral. One of the relatives was very sick. He saw with their loss, so would be the welfare of the household with children. He calls for a fellow worker from the astral to help.

Quote:

We don’t have time to waste. She said. She immediately began applying strengthening passes to the patient, raising a barrier between him and the dark entities, who disappeared as if by magic. Then she turned to me and said firmly:

We must resort to Nature.

I followed her promptly. Sensing my curiosity, she explained:

Man is not the only one to receive and emit fluids. All Nature does the same. In our patient’s case, we need the trees. They will be a great help to us.

Wondering at this new lesson, I followed her in silence. After arriving at a place filled with enormous trees, Narcisa called out to someone with words I couldn’t understand. In a few moments eight spirit entities responded. To my great surprise, I saw Narcisa ask them whether there were mango and eucalyptus trees in the neighborhood. Having received the required information from her friends, who were unknown to me, Narcisa turned to me and explained:

The brothers who have just come to our aid are ordinary workers in the vegetable kingdom.

Said Narcisa. Seeing my wonder, she continued:

You see, there is nothing useless in Our Father’s House. Wherever there are those needing instruction, there will also be those willing to teach. Whenever a difficulty arises, Providence comes in. The only unfortunate being in the Divine Creation is the improvident spirit who condemns himself to the abysses of evil.

With the emanations of the eucalyptus and mango trees, Narcisa quickly manipulated a certain substance, which we applied to the patient through his ordinary breathing and by absorption through his skin. Ernest improved visibly. Early the next morning the doctor observed, extremely surprised: What an extraordinary reaction! A real miracle of Nature!




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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28346701 - 06/04/23 06:31 AM (7 months, 21 days ago)

Searching yesterday for material on aspects of spiritual forgetfulness in maya, I happened upon a book, Thought Power, by Swami Sivananda. A list of downloadable books by The Divine Life Society are here.

An excerpt:

Quote:

Thought-dynamics in Universal Environs
Thought actually leaves the brain and hovers about. When a thought, whether good or
evil, leaves the mind of a person it gives rise to vibrations in the Manas or mental atmosphere,
which travel far and wide in all directions.

It enters the brains of others also. A sage living in a Himalayan cave transmits a powerful
thought to a corner of America. He who tries to purify himself in a cave, really purifies the world,
helps the world at large. Nobody can prevent his pure thoughts coming out and passing on to
those others that really want them.

Just as the sun goes on continuously converting into vapour every drop of water that is on
the surface of the earth and just as all the vapour thus rising up gathers together in the form of
clouds, all the thoughts that you project from your own lonely corner will mount up and be
wafted across space, join similar thoughts projected by those who are like you and, in the end, all
these holy thoughts will come down with tremendous force to subjugate undesirable forces.




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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28347440 - 06/04/23 07:00 PM (7 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

When the mind does not function owing to the absence of Vasanas (mental impressions
and subtle desires), then arises the state of Manonasa or annihilation of the mind.




'With the destruction of mind, Atman begins to dawn.'
This is from an article by the same author.
Manonasa (Annihilation of the Mind)


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28348000 - 06/05/23 09:17 AM (7 months, 19 days ago)

So a way to not forgetting about spirit nature is to forget about maya, the world of the external senses and discursive mind, (in manonasa, or manolaya.)


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28348003 - 06/05/23 09:18 AM (7 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

The essential nature of all objects is thoughts. Materiality is a wrong idea.

As snow melts in water through heat, so mind becomes subtle through the practice of
right vision and positive thoughts.

The real action is thought only. It is really mental and not physical. The physical action is
only an external expression of the real action which is vibration of volition in the mind. Your
physical activities are only the various sides of mental activities.

As the beauty of a tree increases immensely in the spring season, so also your strength,
your intellect and the lustre will increase in proportion to your positive thoughts. Thoughts of the
wise men are entirely different from the thoughts of ordinary people. You are liberated in
proportion to your thoughts of indifference to the world.

When thoughts of purity emanate around you, Eternal Law begins to support you.




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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28348218 - 06/05/23 12:50 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:


'With the destruction of mind, Atman begins to dawn.'
This is from an article by the same author.
Manonasa (Annihilation of the Mind)




I like that , sneaky self ... in our every experience yet non perceivable! :megacrankey::wtfsonic::awehigh:


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54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #28348286 - 06/05/23 01:42 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

:smile: And how will it manifest as dawning?


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28348300 - 06/05/23 01:49 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

That reminded me of in the book, "When the seen and the sight merge into one another in the seer, then is the experience of Ananda (bliss). This is Turiya state."


Edited by syncro (06/05/23 01:50 PM)


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28348334 - 06/05/23 02:21 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

Another term which I hadn't seen (or remembered.) "Repeat mentally, “Om I am Sakshi..." which is the witness.


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28348335 - 06/05/23 02:22 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

For me personally only manifest when heavily contemplated on , intuitively , yet always slipping like trying to put a nail in the sky :awesomenod:  it is very blissful and I can say I could die happy with that feeling as weird as that is to say

" a man who understands the Dao in the morning can die at peace in the evening " *may not be exact quote:lol:*

The seer and the seen :awesomenod: there are moments throughout the day I can almost feel like I'm just watching a movie like my life is just passing through my eyes as I sit as the silent observer

Even while I'm working I'll contemplate free will am I doing this or is this doing me :lol:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28348371 - 06/05/23 02:57 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

I changed the title of the thread to The Land of After, not wanting to be considering death per se every time seeing the thread. It's a pia enough as it is, and as we are taught, illusory. :smile:


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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
    #28348676 - 06/05/23 06:42 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

Interesting take by the Swami on being in the cave.

Quote:

Indians have now imbibed the missionary spirit of the West and cry out that Sannyasins
should come out and take part in social and political activities. It is a sad mistake.

It is not necessary that a Sannyasin, a saint should appear on the platform to help the
world, to preach and elevate the minds of people.

Some saints preach by example. Their very lives are an embodiment of teaching. Their
very sight elevates the minds of thousands.

A saint is a living assurance for others for God-realization. Many draw inspiration from
the sight of holy saints.

No one can check the thought-vibrations from the saints. Their pure, strong thoughtvibrations
travel a very long distance, purify the world and enter the minds of many thousands of
persons. There is no doubt in this.




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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28348682 - 06/05/23 06:45 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

The next book I'm checking out by the same is What Becomes of the Soul After Death.

Quote:

Paraloka-Vidya or the science about the departed souls and their planes of living is a subject
of absorbing interest. It is a Mysterious Science which contains many secrets or hidden wonders. It
has intimate connection with Panchagni-Vidya or the science of transmigration propounded in the
Chhandogya Upanishad. The doctrine of reincarnation or metempsychosis, transmigration of the
soul and spiritualism come under the Paraloka-Vidya. Everybody is curious and anxious to know
this science.




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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28353019 - 06/09/23 08:56 AM (7 months, 15 days ago)

About half way through, recommended though the first part is a bit tedious in the ritual aspects of helping the departed. I had some familiarity with these which involve offering of materials to form a body to leave a purgatorial or chaotic initial phase, perhaps in recollecting the astral body for those who need it, iirc.

Also in that the swami like others say this HAS to be done, and probably none of us do it like that for the departed. At the risk of neglect, in seeking simplicity, one may say such as a divine name is sufficient.

As those at even the highest levels of service oathe to serve all who seek, that needed help would be provided speaks for itself in the worthiness of the name.

edit: The book overall seemed a bit too fundamentalist for me, Hindu fire and brimstone, though some appreciable content, lots of testimony on reincarnation, quotes by philosophers worldwide, and various religious views.


Edited by syncro (06/10/23 06:07 PM)


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28365142 - 06/19/23 06:47 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I hadn't seen this translation from the Vasistha.

Saraswati: "“Those practising the Dharana Yoga may go wherever they like, after leaving their bodies, and so the reasonable Yogi is at liberty to roam everywhere. (It consists in mental meditation and bodily patience and endurance.)"

Anyone who meditates at all with some regularity is doing dharana (concentration) I would think. 
:awedance:

Also from spinvis' quotes quote of the Gita, since Gita showed first for me today in Lithop's pictures.

"Even those who do not know me,
if their actions are straightforward,
just, and loving, venerate me
with the truest kind of worship."

That sounded very simple at first, but then with 'straightforward, just, and loving', we may be just regular people who seemingly seek no harm, but then are we just and loving to ourselves, (in habits and thoughts)?

"All your thoughts, all your actions,
all your fears and disappointments,
offer them to me, clear-hearted;
know them all as passing visions."


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28365268 - 06/19/23 09:41 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I changed the title of the thread to The Land of After, not wanting to be considering death per se every time seeing the thread. It's a pia enough as it is, and as we are taught, illusory. :smile:




With that revision in mind, where does the line get drawn between the now/here and the after/beyond? States of absorbtion, deep fantasy, any time we aren't aware of watching our own projected consciousness?

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
Even while I'm working I'll contemplate free will am I doing this or is this doing me :lol:



:awesomenod:
About 3 weeks ago, I'd had a hearty fresh Nat tea and sat with my eyemask on to meditate.
On some repeat of Avalokiteshvra mantra (internally) I am no longer aware of holding beads or sitting up, or having a body at all- I'm in a void with what I described in my journal later as "rainbow lines of creation" kind of like a freestyle etch-a-sketch where the lines were all intersecting and filling the area of space I turned to dissipating at the end points after a certain amount of crossings, dropping dusty looking pixels off them as they faded out.

When I came around from that space, I was still chanting the mantra (aloud now) and only stopped when I was surprised to hear/feel my own voice.

Fasforward to last week, I picked up 'Journey of Awakening, a Meditators Guidebook' by Ram Dass and read this:

"If practised continually, a mantra becomes somewhat autonomous, like a top spinning inside which every now and then just needs a flick to keep it going.
Eventually it will go on with no need of encouragement, as in the case of Saint Kabir who said,

'Ram practises my japa [repetition of Gods name] while I sit relaxed.'
It's a blissful moment when you notice that happening: Instead of doing mantra, the mantra is doing you."

:awecid:


Quote:

syncro said:
"Even those who do not know me,
if their actions are straightforward,
just, and loving, venerate me
with the truest kind of worship."

That sounded very simple at first, but then with 'straightforward, just, and loving', we may be just regular people who seemingly seek no harm, but then are we just and loving to ourselves, (in habits and thoughts)?

"All your thoughts, all your actions,
all your fears and disappointments,
offer them to me, clear-hearted;
know them all as passing visions."




Seems that bottom purport is the answer to your question- as to how to do the top one more readily/honestly by being able to love ourselves in habit and thought.

What do you think? :pipesmoke:


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Re: The Land of After [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28365295 - 06/19/23 10:02 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
Quote:

syncro said:
I changed the title of the thread to The Land of After, not wanting to be considering death per se every time seeing the thread. It's a pia enough as it is, and as we are taught, illusory. :smile:




With that revision in mind, where does the line get drawn between the now/here and the after/beyond? States of absorbtion, deep fantasy, any time we aren't aware of watching our own projected consciousness?




I thought of CC's response that this is the after/beyond as before this was and after will be.

And I would grade it in qualities. Interesting question what/where is forgetfulness. Aloofness doesn't seem to be a problem as much as whether there is anger and stuff, or betterment.


Edited by syncro (06/19/23 10:33 AM)


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Re: The Land of After [Re: Lithop]
    #28365473 - 06/19/23 12:27 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Awesome description of mantra, that ripeness. It surprises in spite of me. As attractive as the visionary can be it is more so and persistently going to void. I thought it's as if the visual cortex goes dormant which is not necessarily the case just in shutting the eyes and concentrating. It frees energy. It seems I am supposed to sit in it and stay, like that waiting room, a portal, a replicator, or sufficient.

*the visual cortex I see is in the back of the brain, but this is happening primarily in the forehead and can integrate.


Edited by syncro (06/19/23 12:28 PM)


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28366669 - 06/20/23 06:14 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

:heart: you all

It's interesting to me the evolution of spiritual growth as I've involved myself deeper into philosophy I can really see it becoming and I've such a different personality than I used to , or atleast feel like it :lol:

I was meditating while working and listening to all the different sounds come out of silence and fall back into - my mind was quiet, yet ego was persistent to come back every 30 seconds it felt like :lol: time seemed to disappear

It's so hard though compared to when on psychedelics :strokebeard:


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Re: The Land of After [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #28366731 - 06/20/23 07:26 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I thought of CC's response that this is the after/beyond as before this was and after will be.

And I would grade it in qualities. Interesting question what/where is forgetfulness. Aloofness doesn't seem to be a problem as much as whether there is anger and stuff, or betterment.



:awesomenod:
Grading in qualities makes sense.
Some emotions seem to lend themselves more to an active/passive state, as well as how easily they lead you to planning, fantasising, simulation running etc so anger and betterment seem like they'd still park you in the NOW even though you're kind of checked out at that moment.


Quote:

syncro said:
Awesome description of mantra, that ripeness. It surprises in spite of me. As attractive as the visionary can be it is more so and persistently going to void. I thought it's as if the visual cortex goes dormant which is not necessarily the case just in shutting the eyes and concentrating. It frees energy. It seems I am supposed to sit in it and stay, like that waiting room, a portal, a replicator, or sufficient.

*the visual cortex I see is in the back of the brain, but this is happening primarily in the forehead and can integrate.




Interesting, what did you mean by the bold? By that means you diffuse negative energy in your life?


Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
:heart: you all

It's interesting to me the evolution of spiritual growth as I've involved myself deeper into philosophy I can really see it becoming and I've such a different personality than I used to , or atleast feel like it :lol:

I was meditating while working and listening to all the different sounds come out of silence and fall back into - my mind was quiet, yet ego was persistent to come back every 30 seconds it felt like :lol: time seemed to disappear

It's so hard though compared to when on psychedelics :strokebeard:



:heartpump:
Great to hear that man :thumbup:
I feel there's something human/ grounding about seeing other people experience similar shit to you and describing it in a way you FEEL it.
I guess thats the point of 'Sangha'.
Getting out of that 'checking in' loop you elude to there where the identifying self comes back in every 30 seconds is definitely easier tripping :lol:

Dilligent meditation does really make it more consistant to reach & sustain that level of focused prescence, any time- as does mantra IMO.
Wearing in that path.

Highly recommend Daniel Golemans "Varieties of the Meditative Experience", been going back to it a lot lately, there's some amazing stuff in there from various cultures with a detailed table of Jhana from access level through to deeper absorbic states- you may be surprised how often you read a desription & you've "been there" tripping
:trippingsheens:


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Re: The Land of After [Re: Lithop]
    #28366871 - 06/20/23 09:25 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
Quote:

syncro said:
I thought of CC's response that this is the after/beyond as before this was and after will be.

And I would grade it in qualities. Interesting question what/where is forgetfulness. Aloofness doesn't seem to be a problem as much as whether there is anger and stuff, or betterment.



:awesomenod:
Grading in qualities makes sense.
Some emotions seem to lend themselves more to an active/passive state, as well as how easily they lead you to planning, fantasising, simulation running etc so anger and betterment seem like they'd still park you in the NOW even though you're kind of checked out at that moment.




Yeah for me it can be not in dealing with content which in random mind can be bat shit but what is effective in a way is the idea of changing the container, the bodies, the elements. And I was meaning the peaceful as a preference although some better emphasize being with the negative which inevitably arises.


Quote:

Lithop said:
Quote:

syncro said:
Awesome description of mantra, that ripeness. It surprises in spite of me. As attractive as the visionary can be it is more so and persistently going to void. I thought it's as if the visual cortex goes dormant which is not necessarily the case just in shutting the eyes and concentrating. It frees energy. It seems I am supposed to sit in it and stay, like that waiting room, a portal, a replicator, or sufficient.

*the visual cortex I see is in the back of the brain, but this is happening primarily in the forehead and can integrate.




Interesting, what did you mean by the bold? By that means you diffuse negative energy in your life?




The teacher influence saying be in that mahamudra, stay and stay.

The waiting room I said because I've seen the psychedellies here use the reference to experience, the replicator a star trek reference, sometimes the room can manifest objects - some syncronicity going on with your apportation. Actually I scanned yesterday one of your book recommendations - the one by Eddy, and saw the apportation after reading your etymology.

"By that means you diffuse negative energy in your life?"

I hope so. It happens under right conditions, but the conditions change.


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Re: The Land of After [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #28366939 - 06/20/23 10:36 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
:heart: you all

It's interesting to me the evolution of spiritual growth as I've involved myself deeper into philosophy I can really see it becoming and I've such a different personality than I used to , or atleast feel like it :lol:

I was meditating while working and listening to all the different sounds come out of silence and fall back into - my mind was quiet, yet ego was persistent to come back every 30 seconds it felt like :lol: time seemed to disappear

It's so hard though compared to when on psychedelics :strokebeard:




I'm yapping all the time in practice. Minor details. :lol: The practice can make the bodily context more ideal, and that is where much peace can be robbed, and thoughts can go nonstop but nevertheless the system can be in a better way.

It's said also that during a meditative effort, the memories and everything coming up are being looked at by the doctors.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28367140 - 06/20/23 12:50 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Yeah for me it can be not in dealing with content which in random mind can be bat shit but what is effective in a way is the idea of changing the container, the bodies, the elements.



Work toward being a container that is better suited to/ less affected by containing said batshit?

Quote:

syncro said:
The teacher influence saying be in that mahamudra, stay and stay.

The waiting room I said because I've seen the psychedellies here use the reference to experience, the replicator a star trek reference, sometimes the room can manifest objects - some syncronicity going on with your apportation. Actually I scanned yesterday one of your book recommendations - the one by Eddy, and saw the apportation after reading your etymology.




Bold is gold.

Psychedellies looool :lol: good shit.

Synchronicity: "The mirroring of internal experience in the external space, an acausal connection with a meaningful outcome."

Perhaps less synchronistic and more simply a connection?
:shrug:

Quote:

syncro said:
I hope so. It happens under right conditions, but the conditions change.



:thumbup:
It's always possible.


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Re: The Land of After [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28367633 - 06/20/23 06:23 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

"Baader-Meinhof phenomenon"

Yes! that seems to happen around here.

"Work toward being a container that is better suited to/ less affected by containing said batshit?"

Yes, the principle comes from the yogic purification, and it works for me to take it further, like the mantra is my body ... I am the mantra. We are ideas, the body an idea.


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28369477 - 06/21/23 10:20 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

From ACIM (referred in this post.)

Quote:

You have accepted this instead of the body, and have let yourself be one with something beyond it, simply by not letting your mind be limited by it.

12. This can occur regardless of the physical distance that seems to be between you and what you join; of your respective positions in space; and of your differences in size and seeming quality. ²Time is not relevant; it can occur with something past, present or anticipated. ³The “something” can be anything and anywhere; a sound, a sight, a thought, a memory, and even a general idea without specific reference. ⁴Yet in every case, you join it without reservation because you love it, and would be with it. ⁵And so you rush to meet it, letting your limits melt away, suspending all the “laws” your body obeys and gently setting them aside.




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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28424744 - 08/07/23 06:40 PM (5 months, 18 days ago)

More consistency from spiritism books, and broadly it seems, on the bodily natures.

Quote:

She stood beside her son, so close in fact that I thought he
must have felt the wild beating of her heart, and yet I saw that
she was quite invisible to him. He could no more see the spirit
Mother who stood beside him than could a mortal have seen
himself. He was in his Astral body, that first garment of the
Spirit which is almost mortal in its materiality, and she was a
Spirit from the lower sphere, and, as such, two degrees further
removed from materiality than her son. For whether a Spirit
ascends or descends as he leaves the encircling belt of the Earth
Plane, he leaves behind him more and more of the Earth's
materiality, and becomes less and less easily visible to the eyes of
mortals or of Earth-bound Spirits. To become visible, it is necessary
that he should clothe himself in the degree of materiality belonging
to each sphere which intervenes between him and the Earth.




This one is The Strange Story of Ahrinziman, a captivating narrative, this time about dark sorcerers on earth and following in the astral-spirit worlds. Parts of it read like fantasy though also having the message of goodness and redemption in the law where there is a bit of light to be had.


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28425378 - 08/08/23 07:49 AM (5 months, 18 days ago)

I found interesting a clarification in a distinction (somewhat obvious nevertheless) - after Ahrinziman had found his way out of the troubling entanglements in his spiritual pursuits, and had turned to helpfulness and correction of misdeeds, a guide is showing him temples on earth that had been corrupted by the desires of men.

It is seen that the true kings on earth were ones such as the founders of the various religions, and that degradation occurs in time through material desires of their leaders. Again it is said that the earth realm is teaming with astral spirits of varying qualities that have much to do with the degradations, and that the vampiric are seeking to inhabit and feed upon the vitality of those who are vulnerable and who share their appetites. The spirits are seeking to maintain vitality of the material envelop to remain in the astral realm, for when it degrades and dies, the spirit will fall into lower realms, or it believes so.

So it seems that everyone or many have spirits around them that match their vibrations, as well those that would uplift and those that would usurp. In speaking of spiritual work, in the temples etc., Ahrinziman is referring to mediumship. I have not much interest in it per se, but believe it may be implied more broadly that all such contact, meditation, abidance is a kind of mediumship.

In any case, those engaging in practice can become very sensitive as the material envelop is thinned in contact with the spirit which otherwise acts as an insulator to astral influences. The point was that sensitives are not kept in isolation and protected due to mortification of the flesh or such ideas, but because of the sensitivity.

It is odd because the abidance is also a strength and protection, but afterward leaves a seemingly vulnerable sensitivity where mindfulness has subsided.

In the sadhana again the purification practice involves in a sense, destroying the astral and mental bodies with the elements. It seems that no longer can the material body then be considered a protection from influence, but the spirit alone, or will.


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28425411 - 08/08/23 08:10 AM (5 months, 17 days ago)

Very interesting & cool syncro, I'll pick up that book for 3 bucks!
:awesomenod:


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Re: The Land of After [Re: Lithop]
    #28425430 - 08/08/23 08:21 AM (5 months, 17 days ago)

:thumbup: Not to discourage supporting the source, but again I'm getting them as free ebooks on ghostcircle. https://www.ghostcircle.com/free-ebooks/


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro]
    #28425457 - 08/08/23 08:49 AM (5 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
:thumbup: Not to discourage supporting the source, but again I'm getting them as free ebooks on ghostcircle. https://www.ghostcircle.com/free-ebooks/




Thanks for the link- sick resource!
Yeah I'll check the PDF out and still spare the couple coins for a physical copy if I'm digging it :thumbup:


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Re: The Land of After [Re: Lithop]
    #28425466 - 08/08/23 09:06 AM (5 months, 17 days ago)

Some of them are not as readable or captivating, or are too evangelical. Just have to try the luck.


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Re: The Land of After [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28427271 - 08/09/23 02:58 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

I've nosed into another one in the same collection that starts off with appeal, My Travels in the Spirit World, by Caroline D Larsen. Interestingly, I think all of these so far are written in the early half of the last century, this one from 1927.

Quote:

If all of the information concerning life hereafter which I gathered on these occasions could become generally accepted, the present dread of so called "death" would entirely disappear. Our grief and despair at the loss of our loved ones would change into a calm resignation in the face of the conviction that as the "dead" are more alive than ever, the separation is but momentary, the reunion is close at hand.




The speaker shares an experience of an unexpected and delightful separation from her body and enjoyment of her astral self, only to almost immediately have an authority return her to her physical body. She continues to have times of separation and is gradually exploring more fully the world and space.


Edited by syncro (08/13/23 07:19 AM)


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