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syncro
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The Land of After 2
#28268508 - 04/08/23 10:54 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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This thread is for all things afterlife or related. I'll jump in with something I was already writing.
I was reminded of the J Ward books I've recently read, never before those kinds of books, but giving extensive views of the astral and spirit worlds, and the setting was during WWI, many souls piling into the astral after passing in the war, their reception and battles for them and many as well don't know they have died, are still fighting etc. - and the great battle between the dark forces and powerful high spirits coming down into the realm to help repel them. Another is an occult narrative I'm reading from the 19th century, Ghostland I believe.
Considered often are elementals and such forces. They have life per se, but are not beings or souls. Some are precursors to evolving into beings; some are imprints left off. They are effects of thought forms, and can apparently be some of the most powerful adversaries of the higher spirit realm, manifesting in the astral.
As said in Manly P. Hall's talk about magnetism I posted somewhere here recently, everything has their own magnetic field which also compose the whole, but bodily organs, etc., have their own life is said. These are considered as well elemental forces which are not eternal as said is the Being. These influences I thought of as our organic AI - organic artificial - yeah. The recent post in the AI thread about archetypes and war reminded me of these pursuits, but thought to put it in a thread as I've been considering.
Edited by syncro (06/05/23 02:54 PM)
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syncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
#28268534 - 04/08/23 11:25 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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There are two books by J Ward on specifically on the afterlife, the Gone West series - finishing them I looked for more of his writing. Interestingly they are most all around esoterics of Freemasonry, just glancing at them. Ghostland is also much about secret societies and occult practices, their powerful futility where without regard to decency, yet also serving to reveal victory of spirit unbound. They speak similarly to as mentioned Hall's talk, which also is based in Rosicrucian knowledge - the commonalities coinciding.
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Lithop
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] 1
#28269548 - 04/09/23 05:41 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Cool thread!
"The land of after Death" to many, seems to represent the final say as to whether or not there is a 'mystic' or 'paranormal' aspect to our lives here. A sort of "Told you so!" that's just waiting to be uncovered. I subscribe more to the idea, that it's just the furtherance of our current trajectory and as much a part of the overall 'human experience' as waking life.
Just as your perception of the Sea would differ, be you a worker on fishing vessels or a sunbathing beach-goer, your perception of "The land after Death" varies experiencially (at least until you ease into it, which is good basis for some of these topics) depending on whether you've spent your life fearing it or not.
Something I believe is eluded to in the 'Bardo Thodol' in its talk of Karmic reflections and how you should behave in response to their confrontation.
The J Ward stuff sounds interesting, there's a lot of questions that come up around the reaction of soul when ejected from the body during such extreme traumatic circumstance, as opposed to say, lying on a bed in a hospice somewhere.

First off, I reccommend "You will survive Death" by Sherwood Eddy (seperate the author from the work, as always...) if you can track a copy down that isn't too expensive, or grab a PDF.
It takes the view of a devout Protestant missionary in his search for what he would consider to be, tangible proof of some continuation of consciousness after physical death- as well as general pyschic ability/phenomenon- and contains some interesting accounts! Seemingly tired of having to rely on faith alone to prop up his theories when giving talks to soldiers who- there was strong likelihood- could be about to find out firsthand the answer to these question, Sherwood sets off in pursuit of experiences he can really draw power from.
"As I spoke to enlisted men in both World Wars I and II, in Britain, France and America, and met members of families who had lost their loved ones, I found many who had not this faith and who earnestly sought every available evidence of the individuals survival of death." ... "But I had found the soldiers of the British and American armies in World War I avid for evidence of survival, especially on the eve of battle. If I had three nights with a battalion in France before it left for the front, I would take as my third subject, 'Over the Top and After: or Death and What Lies Beyond.' I knew nothing then about the subject of survival from a psychic standpoint, and I had no scientific evidence to offer the men, but heart-hungry before entering battle, they always crowded that third meeting."
He goes on to talk of his Quaker friend who is regularly trying to get Sherwood to read reports on psychic phenomenon etc, eventually getting him on the hook good and proper by assuring him he could show first hand evidence, as opposed to anecdotal/scholarly reports.
"When my Quaker friend felt his 'concern' for me and asked me if I was willing to investigate psychic evidence for immortality, I little dreamed that he was calling me to a new adventure- one of the greatest of my life."
This barely hints at the fact he's gonna get bitch-slapped by an ectoplasmic manifestation at a later date...
"I see what appears to be a solid mass, like sculptors clay. It is taking the shape of a hand- apparantly a left hand, for the thumb is on the right. Below the hand is a wrist and instead of an arm, there is a rod-like structure that resembles a spinal column. This dwindles into a kind of cord, like an umbilical cord, which dissapears into the mediums bathrope as if it were the unsevered umbilical cord of a new born child." ... "I was then rather violently slapped in the face by the ectoplasm. The hands of the psychic and of Dr.Crandon were always visible in the red light or controlled during the dark periods."
 Get blasted!

Anyway, the book is cool and has some good insight as well as whack/fun paranormal studd. I mean, allegedly Sherwood Eddy eschewed the use of his glasses for a number of years in the hope God would just sort his eyes out for him.
That's faith for you...
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syncro said: Considered often are elementals and such forces. They have life per se, but are not beings or souls. Some are precursors to evolving into beings; some are imprints left off. They are effects of thought forms, and can apparently be some of the most powerful adversaries of the higher spirit realm, manifesting in the astral.
These elementals are the forces of raw chaos, IMO and work in ways that are so alien to our comprehension that ancient peoples revered/ feared them with a more anthropomorphised bent. The precursor idea is interesting, so is the imprint one.
The idea of non-physical imprints plays a lot into CMT (chaos magick theory, laid out in Peter Carrolls 'Liber Kaos') as well as, IMO, multiverse ideas. The idea that time is cyclical and repetitious seems to fit in there somewhere too but Im drawing a blank on getting it out.
Thoughtforms and egregores, which you mention at the end there, are some of the more dangerous of the non physical because of how ruthlessly effective they are at conveying a message/feeling. For example, if I whistled the little Maccy D's jingle that comes before "I'm lovin it" many from all over the world would instantly be thinking of, craving or having an adverse feeling toward a certain fast food. The corporate logo is the same.
Check out Adam Curtis's "Power of nightmares" and "Century of the Self" if you want to spiral about how these powerful thoughtforms are leveraged both to create a fake, 'safer' world in which to inhabit- and the inevitable popping of that bubble into the true world where chaos in its myriad forms, reigns supreme.

"Yet, the things the eye can see are mere phantoms and illusions. Only those things invisible to the eye are real."-Hermes Trismegistus.
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syncro said: Interestingly they are most all around esoterics of Freemasonry, just glancing at them. Ghostland is also much about secret societies and occult practices, their powerful futility where without regard to decency, yet also serving to reveal victory of spirit unbound. They speak similarly to as mentioned Hall's talk, which also is based in Rosicrucian knowledge - the commonalities coinciding.
I do see this as interesting, too. There seems to be a percentage among those who are drawn to this sort of stuff, who desire certain structuring and outside validation that THEIR inkling of faith is the proper one and what a good job for finally getting it, here's some homework & a costume. Secret societies, orders, sects etc..
Not at all intended to belittle all organised worship, study or practise but I think it's ultimately on the 'individuals' shoulders to integrate these more esoteric ideas.
I'm of the opinion that belief- TRUE belief, rather than ignorance with a bias toward belief, isn't some trait that comes baked in, rather, a state which is achieved & maintained only by the perpetual hard work of rigorously testing and renewing/discarding everything you think you know on the subject matter in question.
That's not to say doubt everything you believe, 24/7 all the time, but at least keep your apparatus tuned to the point where you know when you're being bullshat. By yourself or others.
Faith is free, belief is gonna cost you something.
I digress...
What do you currently believe is waiting on the other side of that rippling, ethereal blankie?
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๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ ๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ ๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ
Edited by Lithop (04/09/23 05:46 AM)
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] 2
#28269558 - 04/09/23 05:53 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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I like to think this is afterlife 
I exist atleast this one time that I KNOW so maybe per chance it's happened countless times before and countless times after
When I think of faith I think it implies doubt too , because at its essence that's not KNOWING - though I think intuition plays a huge role in ascertaining knowledge
Though I think of Ram Dass , "Faith is going from the edge of the known to the unknown and jumping off , and knowing your either going to learn to fly or land somewhere"
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days



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Quote:
connectedcosmos said: I like to think this is afterlife 

Quote:
connectedcosmos said: I exist atleast this one time that I KNOW so maybe per chance it's happened countless times before and countless times after
In(fi)nit 
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connectedcosmos said: When I think of faith I think it implies doubt too , because at its essence that's not KNOWING - though I think intuition plays a huge role in ascertaining knowledge
Yep, faith and doubt are conjoined-twins IMO.
Intuition for definite seems to play into it a lot. It's why I regularly talk of 'tuning your apparatus' cos there can be a fine line between benefitting from trusting your intuition and tricking yourself.
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connectedcosmos said: Though I think of Ram Dass , "Faith is going from the edge of the known to the unknown and jumping off , and knowing your either going to learn to fly or land somewhere" 
Fuck yeah! Shows the choice you have to make if you're gonna play with faith.
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๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ ๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ ๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ
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Kickle
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Quote:
Lithop said: I subscribe more to the idea, that it's just the furtherance of our current trajectory
That's as far as I'll venture as well. I agree with this sentiment attributed to the Buddha:
"What makes you ask about what comes after death, is existing suffering. So focus and work on suffering."
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connectedcosmos said: I exist atleast this one time that I KNOW so maybe per chance it's happened countless times before and countless times after
Yeah and upon closer examination it's questionable 'I' exist at all. So maybe not all that important what happens to "me" at some later date. Refocus...
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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connectedcosmos
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Kickle]
#28269711 - 04/09/23 08:54 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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As a word or thought "I " does not exist , it's simply a way to refer to this awareness that's observing the "universe" if anything all that I do know is that this awareness is present in the waking, dreaming, and deep sleep state , as that is to what I refer to as existing
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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Kickle
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Does that exist in the imagined future? Or is this thread about the existence of the "I" of thought after death?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Kickle] 1
#28269828 - 04/09/23 11:10 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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I guess for me it's about stories. The books I mentioned are written as faction, but whether to believe them or not is another thing; they are views of possibilities. The question deepens as well. ACIM for example and other sources say mind or self can go to different times and places.
It reminds me and this also addresses the blackness that CC mentioned in the other thread. So many angles to cover and we're going picnicking, can't keep up. One thing it reminded me of is in the Gone West series, in the astral, those that are helping souls heal take them a to place called iirc, the land of absolute silence, and they travel back into time in the astral, into pre history where the land is very still, and let them stay there for a while to calm their minds and release problems.
I associated that with what is tending to occur in my meditations which is just going into blackness, void. This is ideal to the some of zen teachings, mahamudra, etc. Also yogis have encouraged it's fine to go beyond experience.
Now, when I have more time to practice and can let it integrate, it's dynamite - meaning to say more about that. Otherwise, and this is a superficial view, I'm looking into blackness and concerned it could be a little boring?; where is my vision?
Anyway I'm scrambled right now and have to go out.
peace all and happy easter
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solarshroomster
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] 3
#28270038 - 04/09/23 01:59 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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My thought is that we came from no-thingness into thing-ness "before", so what's to stop it from happening again?
I sort of think there's no such thing as "death", and "birth" is like "death". It's like amnesia. You never exist outside yourself, so wherever "you" are, you'll exist. "You" don't dwell in non-existence. It's like trying to see in the back of your head? You don't see anything. It's not blackness either.
Ever looked back at an old email you wrote years ago? Do you even relate to that same being? He's not "alive" from your perspective now. And, yet, it was you at one point (and in many conceptions of spacetime, or Einsteinian block universe theory, that point of spacetime still exists, by the way). That's analogous to the "no-thingness" we "see"/"don't" behind our head. Each place is just a point of experience from the larger Reality experiencing it.
If you were to take one atom of my brain and shoot it from my brain into your brain, when would I become you and you become me?
Every fraction of a second, the old self of you dies for another self. Where is the "you" who was "you" yesterday? It's like we are constantly being birthed over and over again... We are all one, and yet different at the same time, in my book.
I can't prove any of this, but I think that's the great thing about spirituality and the "big questions"... it's forever undecidable. As has been mentioned elsewhere here, it's about Faith in what you choose / guided to believe and accepting you don't know for sure. Because, we really don't know why we're here, why Reality is here, and what happens when we die. How magical that is!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think Iโm supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (04/09/23 02:14 PM)
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syncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop]
#28270781 - 04/10/23 07:23 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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"What do you currently believe is waiting on the other side of that rippling, ethereal blankie?"
The natures in Gone West had appeal to me first in the way thought is addressed, again, mind as paramount. The astral world described has similarities across sources and testimony. I've considered that, as has been said, each of us is a universe, and therefore the cosmos may be described and its nature accessed through the human anatomy, in a way of thinking.
The experiences described were generally around those of common people, those who have not studied and practiced. Therefore we have considerable time spent in that which is close to earth (and for some, somewhat or far below, and some skipping it entirely), all thoughts around it said to come to the land of after with extensive implications.
Above the astral realm is the spirit realm, and a level in that is a crossing into beyond form, or a more comprehensive unity. The border is termed the "wall of fire". I thought of this corresponding to perhaps the diaphragm, as anything heart level and above are in 'truer' comprehension.
Hell realms, curiously enough, are also considered to be part of the spirit realm and not the astral. I'm not recalling clearly the described differences in the natures of the two involving thought, impermanence, but I suppose hell realms are more purely in the mental, as bad as the astral can be. There are also very high states in the astral.
There is a character in the books known as the Officer, who on earth was not good. His afterlife descent is notable on which I intend to comment. He does eventually find his redemption and come back up to helpfulness.
The author is associating with relatives and others who have passed in the war and for other reasons, and in remaining family on earth, there is a young child who knows of the others' passing and prays for them, etc. She asks JW often if there are fairies, and so part the narrative is around pursuit of such in the astral. It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children. This realm is much like middle earth fantasy.
Edited by syncro (04/10/23 08:52 AM)
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syncro
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"Faith is going from the edge of the known to the unknown and jumping off , and knowing your either going to learn to fly or land somewhere."
Or landing in a solid state of flight, in one's absolute Brahman body. Well, absolute is a tricky word.
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connectedcosmos
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] 1
#28270828 - 04/10/23 08:19 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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From AtmaBodha " Realise That to be Brahman, the attainment of which leaves nothing more to be attained, the blessedness of which leaves no other blessing to be desired and the knowledge of which leaves nothing more to be known."  
If awareness is unchanging then it is not effected by any attributes of time , as time is in a way a "measurement" of change
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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syncro
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"Every fraction of a second, the old self of you dies for another self."
A theory stuck with me that everything does in each Planck unit of time. I've thought that if we can become still enough, or however we do it, we can see and move through the gaps, though that is pretty dern fast, and is there not existence as well in the gaps? I think (agree) that there is no nonexistence, though use of the term varies, and some say beyond existence. To me it would mean something more subtle, but not without existence. ?
"it's forever undecidable."
I think it can become very decidable, but out of respect for others and enjoyment of different viewpoints, uncertainty fits, and perspectives from others can be so enriching, and add to the 'decision'. And although it may seem at times decidable, it is not describable, so how can there be certainty? Beyond certainty and uncertainty.
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thealienthatategod
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro] 1
#28272107 - 04/10/23 11:55 PM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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do the organic artificial parts you refer to still retain the soul?
there is a war going on for this energy where the control of information that travels between humans and their environment, on all levels, physical and non-physical, life and death, seeks to turn men into soulless machines, avatar slaves.
this is in part the issue with soul traps, the physical form becomes trapped in a lower vibrational frequency where it can not properly interface with the souls knowing. dying itself becomes very difficult. this is bc the etheric field, which is the blueprint for the physical structure that it surrounds, has had its energetic programs damaged, affecting human health and well-being. when these energetic programs are intact, the etheric body can physically journey separately from the physical body, as when one is dreaming or is passing.
consciousness need not be bound strictly to an energetic plane as it is also a multi-dimensional force, that is able to transverse different sets of energetic parameters, and this is awareness.
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psilocybinmansions
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It is for real. We just live in a Western culture which has two answers - belief and this other idea that you're just an organ in your head and if it doesn't compute you, you don't exist. There is another way - trusting your experience. I've suffocated from sleep apnea which almost caused a kind of heart failure many times without realising and came out of my body and went into a far more comfortable rendition of my present life which was being co-created by me very powerfully. A bit like a sim. I had hundreds of these experiences and it wasn't until I did something about my sleep apnea that they went away. lol.
Be very respectful of the dead if you encounter them. They are extremely beautiful. Forget this haunted house, silly angry ghost nonsense.
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Lithop
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
#28272151 - 04/11/23 01:52 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: The natures in Gone West had appeal to me first in the way thought is addressed, again, mind as paramount. The astral world described has similarities across sources and testimony.
The 'astral' realm is a source of much contest for me, in how it 'exists' I see it more akin to a biome we simply can't percieve/navigate with this combination of sensory-bits. The mind is still paramount as you point out as it can transcend, sensory limitations.
Quote:
syncro said: I've considered that, as has been said, each of us is a universe, and therefore the cosmos may be described and its nature accessed through the human anatomy, in a way of thinking.
This is pretty much the "As above, so below" idea or the part in Adventure Time where Finn has the cleverboy glasses and is like;
"EVERYTHING SMALL IS JUST A SMALL VERSION OF SOMETHING BIG!"

Quote:
syncro said: The experiences described were generally around those of common people, those who have not studied and practiced. Therefore we have considerable time spent in that which is close to earth (and for some, somewhat or far below, and some skipping it entirely), all thoughts around it said to come to the land of after with extensive implications.
Are we talking about what are often referred to as levels of 'density' here?
Quote:
syncro said: Above the astral realm is the spirit realm, and a level in that is a crossing into beyond form, or a more comprehensive unity. The border is termed the "wall of fire". I thought of this corresponding to perhaps the diaphragm, as anything heart level and above are in 'truer' comprehension.
Interesting take! A lot to think about on this one. Although not usually intended to be overlaid in a 1:1 fashion with other systems, there seems to be many frameworks of inner energy systems of the human body that start from "Earthly" (Malkuth) at the feet and "Celestial" (Ahih) at the head.
Certainly, to me, seems to speak to an idea of Spiritual/energetic refinement.
Quote:
syncro said: Hell realms, curiously enough, are also considered to be part of the spirit realm and not the astral. I'm not recalling clearly the described differences in the natures of the two involving thought, impermanence, but I suppose hell realms are more purely in the mental, as bad as the astral can be. There are also very high states in the astral.
For me, a hell realm would be somewhere there ISN'T impermanance 
Quote:
syncro said: There is a character in the books known as the Officer, who on earth was not good. His afterlife descent is notable on which I intend to comment. He does eventually find his redemption and come back up to helpfulness.
Transcending Samsara by the cutting/ resolution of Karmic threads.
Quote:
syncro said: The author is associating with relatives and others who have passed in the war and for other reasons, and in remaining family on earth, there is a young child who knows of the others' passing and prays for them, etc. She asks JW often if there are fairies, and so part the narrative is around pursuit of such in the astral. It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children. This realm is much like middle earth fantasy.
Very cool! There's certainly something to be said for the unconditioned/unflitered viewpoint that kids have that seems to facilitate many whack experiences to do with the paranormal! This very much plays into my often saying there is a need to treat these 'unusual instances' casually until such a time you don't alter their happening with your reaction...
When you said Quote:
It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children.
what do you mean?
P.s Hope you enjoyed your picnic and happy Easter back at ya!

Quote:
psilocybinmansions said: There is another way - trusting your experience.
I don't advocate "blind trust" IE believing everything you tell yourself but "measured trust" of something undeniable in your own experiences is a way to Spiritual sovereignty while here on Earth, IMO. The connecting thread between my NDEs, psychedelic and meditative experiences really spoke to the idea we are already "in the cloud" as well as in these physical "flesh drives" .
I'm not high enough yet, to be saying this stuff.
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๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ ๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ ๐ฌ๏ธ ๐ป โโโ โฎโฎโฎโฎ ๐ โนโคโฟ
Edited by Lithop (04/11/23 02:07 AM)
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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"do the organic artificial parts you refer to still retain the soul?"
The implications in the books, and I think it can be inferred more broadly, is that elementals are without the living spirit being, immortal, yet I'm not clear on their extent. Some considered a manifestation of a planetary personification as an elementary, maybe a different connotation. I think it can come down to everything that is impermanent is elemental then, or I think of it as prana, and everything else perceivable. It is the same as Shakti I suppose, nothing would move without it, its reality based in the immovable Being.
"there is a war going on"
I don't doubt it. Yet, at the same time, not for the real, easy to say. Keeping it simple for myself, everything is karma. Being victim or having power over it, leaving it behind - there will be no entanglement without a need. And power is given as we know.
I see I sort of just repeated what you said.
Edited by syncro (04/11/23 05:35 AM)
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syncro
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: Lithop] 1
#28272284 - 04/11/23 05:25 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: The experiences described were generally around those of common people, those who have not studied and practiced. Therefore we have considerable time spent in that which is close to earth (and for some, somewhat or far below, and some skipping it entirely), all thoughts around it said to come to the land of after with extensive implications. Lithop said: Are we talking about what are often referred to as levels of 'density' here?
Perhaps. I like it in the levels of qualties, tamas, rajas, sattva - inertia/darkness, middling, and pure, respectively.
Quote:
syncro said:
It is said so and that they are due to thoughts of children.
Lithop said:
what do you mean?
It is said so, that fairies do exist. Due to children - that all things (beyond) are (effects of) thought forms.
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days



Registered: 04/09/22
Posts: 764
Loc: ๐ธ
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Re: The Land of After Death [Re: syncro]
#28273812 - 04/12/23 01:19 AM (9 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: It is said so, that fairies do exist. Due to children - that all things (beyond) are (effects of) thought forms.
When it comes to thoughtforms and egregores etc, I wonder how the powerfully unbridled imagination of a child plays into the situation.
'Popular' belief, folklore and media certainly points in a certain direction...
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