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The Ecstatic
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China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) 3
#28268432 - 04/08/23 09:44 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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China brokers a normalization of relations between Saudi and Iran, including a pledge to end the war in Yemen, the world’s worst humanitarian crisis.
Oman also played a tremendous role in negotiating a peace between the Saudis and the Houthi rebels.
https://www.politico.eu/article/china-broker-deal-iran-saudi-arabia-diplomatic-relations-sheikh-nimr-al-nimr-missile-attacks/amp/
What do we think about this gross imperialistic behavior by China? Are they trying to save these peoples’ lives as a way to stock up those concentration camps in Xianjang? Who are they to say whether this genocide should end? Last I checked it was called the Arabian Peninsula not the Beijing Peninsula. This is just a taste of what horrors await the people of Taiwan if we don’t keep ramping up our military exports to the island.
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ballsalsa
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#28268449 - 04/08/23 10:12 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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If the U.S. is smart we won't overtly try to upend the peace or anything. Wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of CIA tricks ala 1953 Iran, though.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28268480 - 04/08/23 10:35 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to imply with this thread. Is it that the Chinese/authoritarian state model is preferable? Is it that the Chinese state hasn't committed atrocities? Be explicit in your beliefs, please.
States can do good; but let's not pretend these acts come from a place of compassion or altruism - any state vying for global/regional dominance necessarily views our world through a Machiavellian zero-sum lens.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#28268704 - 04/08/23 02:11 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: If the U.S. is smart we won't overtly try to upend the peace or anything. Wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of CIA tricks ala 1953 Iran, though.
I’m not sure we have the leverage to fuck up this peace. Iran wouldn’t piss on us if we were on fire and Saudi has kept us at arm’s length for some time.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to imply with this thread. Is it that the Chinese/authoritarian state model is preferable? Is it that the Chinese state hasn't committed atrocities? Be explicit in your beliefs, please.
States can do good; but let's not pretend these acts come from a place of compassion or altruism - any state vying for global/regional dominance necessarily views our world through a Machiavellian zero-sum lens.
I’m implying that Western states and their media will have a difficult time painting this most recent development of a more pronounced Chinese foreign policy as evil or authoritarian. I’m sure there will be an Op Ed next week with a narrative nearly as ridiculous as the satirical ones I’ve offered.
I don’t think the Chinese state model has much to do with the efficacy of this brokered peace, it’s mostly due to the fact that America’s vassal states can see which way the wind is blowing and are beginning to act accordingly.
I think there’s a debate to be had about the Chinese model, a bastardized socialism, being preferable to what we have here, a bastardized neoliberalism, but I think there shouldn’t be much dispute that a more multipolar world (that is, a reality in which US power is diminished and Chinese/Indian/Brazilian/Russian power grows) is a net benefit for the world.
And I don’t doubt China brokered this peace through the realpolitik lens, but the explicit project of the Chinese communists isn’t something that’s easily explained. Since Mao there’s been a delicate balancing act between liberal reforms and the idea that said reforms are necessary to advance the cause of socialism. Brokering a peace in Yemen is one of those things that’s an objective good, while also representing a decline in US power. Had China, for example, started backing the Houthis in order to establish some BRICS-adjacent beachhead on the Arabian peninsula, it would be more difficult to justify those means.
I know we’ve had this discussion before about whether the ends justify the means and what degree of coercion and violence might be acceptable to reach that goal, but with China it’s always a guessing game of whether they’re actually committed to socialism.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#28269038 - 04/08/23 06:53 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Okay, that makes things clearer. I'm guessing it's satire of American news; which I just don't watch enough of to make that connection.
Shouldn't be too difficult to keep the narrative going, though. As simple as pointing out some future economic benefit for the Chinese state, and just lean into the 'otherness' to talk about how Chinese motivations are sinister where American motivations are virtuous. Propaganda doesn't need to change minds - reinforcing already existing beliefs is valuable on its own.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#28269050 - 04/08/23 07:01 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Yeah I’m under no impression that Americans will warm to China. Their ascent mirrors our demise. Every good thing they do will be bad even if it is virtuous, maybe especially if it’s virtuous.
The running joke on social media, when it comes to satirizing domestic coverage of China, centers around the phrase “but at what cost?” Because the thesis of almost every headline regarding China is essentially “sure this looks good, but if we dig deeper we’ll see why it isn’t.”
But that’s only reserved for the beltway lib and Foreign Policy reading neocons, the educated folks. Jordan Peterson is sharing stories from the Epoch Times (a rag run by Falun Gong) about how China is kidnapping hundreds of thousands of people and harvesting their organs, so we can skin the cat that way too.
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Brian Jones
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#28269585 - 04/09/23 06:39 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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We should wait a bit to see if peace is achieved. It would be great for Yemen, and if it works, I don't care who brokered it.
China's international influence will be increasing in many regions. America won't like it, but our record of good vs evil in the less developed countries is what it is.
Jordan Peterson got caught posting some bizarre picture of men strapped down and being "milked" (don't ask me) and said it was some atrocity China was engaging in. The picture actually came from a Canadian porn fetish site.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: Brian Jones]
#28269591 - 04/09/23 06:43 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Kickle
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: Brian Jones]
#28269684 - 04/09/23 08:13 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: We should wait a bit to see if peace is achieved. It would be great for Yemen, and if it works, I don't care who brokered it.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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The Ecstatic
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: Kickle]
#28269700 - 04/09/23 08:41 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: Sorry it was from UK, not Canada. https://www.yahoo.com/news/jordan-peterson-downfall-boring-become-215943765.html
Yeah he’s a huge dumbass. Point I was making is that we don’t need some well-thought out disinformation campaign against China when even public intellectuals like JBP are retweeting sperm-jacking videos as evidence of China’s evil ways.
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Brian Jones said: We should wait a bit to see if peace is achieved. It would be great for Yemen, and if it works, I don't care who brokered it.
I’m a bit skeptical as well. This could just be posturing for Saudi to get a more advantageous position with the US.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28269852 - 04/09/23 11:42 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Wheels within wheels and the current cut in oil production is definitely a bargaining chip set to call.
I def agree with Brian and hope there is peace but history and the Middle East with any reference to said peace is short-lived. Still alot of Saudi/ Iran animosity that continues to foment for years.
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Kryptos
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28269971 - 04/09/23 01:10 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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It would probably be a net gain in human rights for the middle east, the middle east becomes their headache, and if we develop our renewables infrastructure to become independent of Saudi oil, then I see this as absolute wins across the board.
Unfortunately, I don't believe the last one will take place. Which means that this will directly lead to the decline of the US.
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chopstick
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28270002 - 04/09/23 01:38 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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20 years of US middle east policy are more or less in the process of collapsing. This is the type of shit that we murdered a million Iraqis to try and prevent.
It's a great thing to watch. The Saudis are also pushing for Assad to be reintroduced to the Arab League, turning 10+ years of US support for "moderate Al-Qaeda" into a gigantic wasted effort 
All that needs to happen now is for the US military to withdraw remaining forces from Iraq & Syria and the nightmare will almost be over.
As for Israel, they are going to become increasingly isolated and their political situation increasingly untenable. If they lash out with military force like a bunch of impotent babies, they will be attacked from all sides. Everybody hates them.
Combine this with the fact that the BRICS nations are building an independent, alternative sanctions-proof economy and the fact that the US Dollar is being increasingly abandoned, and we are basically witnessing the birth of the multi-polar world in slow motion. These are all key events that create the foundation for this new world.
The only question is, what will our "leaders" do now? Things are looking pretty desperate for them...
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SirTripAlot
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: chopstick]
#28270306 - 04/09/23 06:32 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Definitely many failed policies in the Middle East with the USA at the helm, however, to rest the majority of Middle East issues squarely at the feet of the US is not sound.
There is plenty of blame to go around: the psudeo theocratic governments, blood and religious feuds, lack of civil rights of the populace, etc.
The dollar? It's was at its highest value in more than 20 years, two quarters ago. With each FED interest Rate hike, the demand for the dollar for international investors has increased significantly.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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The Ecstatic
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: chopstick]
#28270374 - 04/09/23 07:33 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: 20 years of US middle east policy are more or less in the process of collapsing. This is the type of shit that we murdered a million Iraqis to try and prevent.
It's a great thing to watch. The Saudis are also pushing for Assad to be reintroduced to the Arab League, turning 10+ years of US support for "moderate Al-Qaeda" into a gigantic wasted effort 
All that needs to happen now is for the US military to withdraw remaining forces from Iraq & Syria and the nightmare will almost be over.
As for Israel, they are going to become increasingly isolated and their political situation increasingly untenable. If they lash out with military force like a bunch of impotent babies, they will be attacked from all sides. Everybody hates them.
Combine this with the fact that the BRICS nations are building an independent, alternative sanctions-proof economy and the fact that the US Dollar is being increasingly abandoned, and we are basically witnessing the birth of the multi-polar world in slow motion. These are all key events that create the foundation for this new world.
The only question is, what will our "leaders" do now? Things are looking pretty desperate for them...
Wondering what our leaders do now is something I’d probably base on what they’ve historically done when they feel their power slip ever so slightly.
And that’s horrifying.
Would be nice if we slowly relinquished the reins like Great Britain did.
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Kryptos
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28270554 - 04/09/23 11:15 PM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Yeah, I don't think the people living in Great Britain outside of London are having a great time right now. And it is spreading.
Soon, it will spread to the US. The future that you await gleefully of authoritarian control and empty shelves.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: Kryptos]
#28270795 - 04/10/23 07:38 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Fortunately, America has an economy based on more than laundering mob money and exporting pedophilia.
Either way, this authoritarianism and empty shelves you fear has existed for some time in most of the world. Our lavish and wasteful lifestyles in the West have decimated the planet, probably irreparably.
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Kryptos
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28270960 - 04/10/23 10:34 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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I said outside of London. London is doing fine, it's the rest of the country that can't afford both food and heat. This is actually a clear warning signal to rural accelerationists: those urban elites you hate so much will not be the first to suffer during the collapse.
And yes, my point is that the authoritarianism and empty shelves are coming here, to affect me. I do not like things that negatively affect me, doubly so when there is no clear long-term benefit. Morality aside, US hegemony does provide me my lavish lifestyle, and I would like to maintain it.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28271027 - 04/10/23 11:41 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Morality aside, Adolf Hitler was a good leader.
No shit the West benefits at the expense of everyone else. The ease with which we brush aside the moral implications of a global exploitation regime just goes to show what I alluded to in my response to chop: we’ll do whatever we want to maintain that situation, and people will cheer for it.
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Kryptos
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Re: China and Oman Broker Peace in Yemen (Authoritarianly) [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#28271122 - 04/10/23 12:59 PM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Morality aside, Hitler was a shit leader. That's why he had to come up with scapegoats for his failures.
Until the global consensus on the permissiveness of economic exploitation comes to an end, people will be economically exploited for the benefit of others. Until this status quo changes, I am much happier at the top of the pyramid than I am being exploited. Morality is a luxury, and neither of us will gain anything by working 72 hour weeks for shit pay making disposable trinkets for the Chinese middle class.
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