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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28264767 - 04/06/23 07:52 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you're suggesting that we take one of the most difficult jobs on the planet and make it even less attractive to qualified applicants.  Great plan.  Why not just add execution by firing squad upon termination?




Exactly one kind of person runs for president:

The kind of person who needs little kids to read their name in history books two hundred years later.

Obama, Biden, bush, Clinton, they were all just as vain and attention-seeking as trump. They just have some class.

This would add an additional hurdle for those seeking power--a self imposed limitation on their ability to seek recognition in other ways. No more "wealthy" businessmen becoming presidents to pad their pockets, because they would lose their businesses.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos]
    #28264792 - 04/06/23 08:10 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Being president is an investment. After being president people will pay hundreds of thousands of not millions to hear you talk, thousands just to have you come to their events. Even if you gave up your businesses to become the president you've got crazy equity just in your brand.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28264806 - 04/06/23 08:20 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Correct.

But to get that equity, you have to sacrifice everything you own, plus 4-8 years of your life.

And you'd get a presidential salary. Not sure if former presidents still get those.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28265007 - 04/06/23 10:19 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Synonyms for "fascist" = "authoritarian", "totalitarian", "autocrat", "dictatorship"

Communication often includes nuance.




Nuance like authoritarian means right wing and totalitarian means left wing. George Orwell wasn't writing 1984 and Animal Farm about fascist or authoritarians.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos]
    #28267348 - 04/07/23 06:08 PM (9 months, 16 days ago)

Give up yo modern equivalents of the peanut farm Mr President!

But maybe don't hand control off to your kids!! That's not independent or uninvolved.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28268162 - 04/08/23 06:06 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you're suggesting that we take one of the most difficult jobs on the planet and make it even less attractive to qualified applicants.  Great plan.  Why not just add execution by firing squad upon termination?




We should give every federal legislator a child slave as to entice the best candidates.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28268520 - 04/08/23 11:05 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Reaffirming your statement that "those who are qualified to run the country don't want the job"; and adding the suggestion that "shit pay" isn't a major contribution to this millenia-old dilemma.



There's no way around the fact that whomever becomes President will be someone who wants the job.  As clever as Plato was, we can't get around that issue.

There are people, however, who have real skills and talent to be able to lead people, manage very large budgets, represent the interests of others, etc.  Those people make a lot of money.  Some are likely to even be moral people.  These would certainly be the best candidates for the job of President, but it would take a rare person to agree to do that for the pay and working conditions that come with the job.




Outside of budget management, I have to question how much these listed skills and talents correlate with high earnings. I also think that leadership and representation are much more important traits than budget management, when considering the role of president - that's what advisors are for.

I also consider using 'personal wealth' as the main attractant is more likely to draw in greedy selfish individuals, than anything else. Although Plato may not have reached a viable solution, either, I still think his suggestion that offering more than the common riches of rulership - in his case, a life conducive to philosophy  - is how you make it more likely that "the rich, not only in this world’s goods, but in virtue and wisdom, may bear rule."

I don't see how just upping the ante of material wealth will eventually bring us to a tipping point where we attract moral, rather than selfish, rulers. If that were true, CEOs would be correlated with altruism rather than psychopathy.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28268530 - 04/08/23 11:22 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

CEOs are correlated with serving the interests of others. Isn't that what we want in a president?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #28268535 - 04/08/23 11:25 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

They serve a very specific other (shareholders), in a very specific interest (financial profit), to the point of irrationality (destroying long-term profitability for short-term gains / destroying the environmental capabilities of the planet).

No, I don't believe that's the type of leadership we should desire.


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OnlineSkellies


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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28268537 - 04/08/23 11:26 AM (9 months, 15 days ago)

I can see the skill overlap in managing organizations, but I'm not sure the government should always be run like a buisness.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Skellies]
    #28269155 - 04/08/23 08:12 PM (9 months, 15 days ago)

Service to others is not the ideal form of government anyway.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos]
    #28269386 - 04/08/23 10:23 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Go on


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28269627 - 04/09/23 07:26 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Being president is an investment. After being president people will pay hundreds of thousands of not millions to hear you talk, thousands just to have you come to their events. Even if you gave up your businesses to become the president you've got crazy equity just in your brand.




Hate to break this to you, but nobody actually pays millions of dollars to hear Obama talk. They give him millions of dollars to say thanks for governing according to their will.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28269937 - 04/09/23 12:51 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Go on




Service to others has to have reasonable restrictions, just like rights do.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28270215 - 04/09/23 05:22 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you're suggesting that we take one of the most difficult jobs on the planet and make it even less attractive to qualified applicants.  Great plan.  Why not just add execution by firing squad upon termination?




We should give every federal legislator a child slave as to entice the best candidates.



Anyone who would want a child slave would be a terrible candidate.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28270227 - 04/09/23 05:30 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

You should look at whose pushing bills to allow 14 year olds to work in dangerous jobs at minimum wage, just sayin, you'll find that list of names.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: sudly]
    #28270231 - 04/09/23 05:31 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Sounds made up.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28270233 - 04/09/23 05:33 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Being president is an investment. After being president people will pay hundreds of thousands of not millions to hear you talk, thousands just to have you come to their events. Even if you gave up your businesses to become the president you've got crazy equity just in your brand.




Hate to break this to you, but nobody actually pays millions of dollars to hear Obama talk. They give him millions of dollars to say thanks for governing according to their will.




:thumbup:

Quote:

Notably, Obama’s purse was nearly triple the amount Hillary Clinton was paid for her notorious speeches to Goldman Sachs that revealed her and the Democratic Party as Wall Street stooges. Former President Bill Clinton was paid just $200,000 per speech when he toured Latin America in 2005.

A key factor in Obama’s newfound and growing wealth are those who profited from his presidency. A number of his public speeches have been given to big Wall Street firms and investors. Obama has given at least nine speeches to Cantor Fitzgerald, a large investment and commercial real estate firm, and other high-end corporations. According to records, each speech has been at least $400,000 a clip.

Obama’s lucrative post-White House career hobnobbing with the corporate, entertainment and financial elite epitomizes the revolving door relationship between the US government and the private sector. Obama’s rewards are simply retroactive bribery for services rendered to the capitalist elite, who have welcomed him with open arms.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/20/obam-j20.html




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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28270241 - 04/09/23 05:39 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Is pretty ham to see ontop of trying to ban pregnant youth from interstate travel and the general removal of women's rights.

Quote:

Last week, state legislators in Arkansas passed a bill that would eliminate a requirement for kids under the age of 16 to obtain a permit in order to work. Currently, companies in Arkansas that want to employ 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds are required to obtain a permit showing proof of age, have written permission from a parent or guardian, and provide a description of the work and the work schedule. The bill, “The Youth Hiring Act of 2023,” would weaken the state’s oversight of child labor laws by eliminating the need for a permit altogether. 

Other Republican-led states are currently considering legislation to change child labor laws too, including Iowa and Ohio. Iowa’s bill would allow minors as young as 15 to serve alcohol and allow 14-year-olds to work in industrial freezers and meat coolers. Ohio’s bill would allow minors to work year-round until 9 p.m.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7b4d9/rkansas-republicans-relaxing-child-labor-laws




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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: sudly]
    #28270269 - 04/09/23 06:05 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

That doesn't really support your claim.


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