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OfflineKryptos
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Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency
    #28263935 - 04/05/23 05:38 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

And maybe federal office?

Just, completely reset to zero. Everything you own, all of your assets/recently owned assets get donated to the government. Money to the treasury, stock to the...SEC, property goes to the park service or whatever.

You have to give it all up.

But, your get to have presidential salary for the rest of your life, along with the SS guards.

And to avoid loopholes, make it illegal to profit from any assets established prior to the end day of your presidency/office.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos] * 3
    #28263941 - 04/05/23 05:46 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

So, you're suggesting that we take one of the most difficult jobs on the planet and make it even less attractive to qualified applicants.  Great plan.  Why not just add execution by firing squad upon termination?


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos]
    #28264026 - 04/05/23 07:03 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

It would make bribery way more appealing and effective for those in power.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: nooneman]
    #28264070 - 04/05/23 07:23 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Would it? Bribery already seems pretty effective - perhaps the type of person willing to renounce all their property is also the type of person less likely to be swayed by bribes. :strokebeard2:


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Offline1c3m4n
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28264118 - 04/05/23 07:48 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you're suggesting that we take one of the most difficult jobs on the planet and make it even less attractive to qualified applicants.  Great plan.  Why not just add execution by firing squad upon termination?




hahah you dont read much do you? its not possible to make the posiiton of world leader less attractive. POTUS controls the world.

hahahahahahahahaaha but yeah lets just give them even more power cause you like being dominated. wtf my friend.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: 1c3m4n]
    #28264129 - 04/05/23 07:56 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

The reason we have so many shitty presidents is because those who are qualified to run the country don't want the job.  It pays shit.  Anything you do is subjected to endless criticism.  You lose all privacy for the rest of your life.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil]
    #28264221 - 04/05/23 08:52 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

You should remember that our purpose in framing the State was not that our citizens should do what they like, but that they should serve the State for the common good of all. May we not fairly say to our philosopher, — Friend, we do you no wrong; for in other States philosophy grows wild, and a wild plant owes nothing to the gardener, but you have been trained by us to be the rulers and kings of our hive, and therefore we must insist on your descending into the den. You must, each of you, take your turn, and become able to use your eyes in the dark, and with a little practice you will see far better than those who quarrel about the shadows, whose knowledge is a dream only, whilst yours is a waking reality.

It may be that the saint or philosopher who is best fitted, may also be the least inclined to rule, but necessity is laid upon him, and he must no longer live in the heaven of ideas. And this will be the salvation of the State. For those who rule must not be those who are desirous to rule; and, if you can offer to our citizens a better life than that of rulers generally is, there will be a chance that the rich, not only in this world’s goods, but in virtue and wisdom, may bear rule. And the only life which is better than the life of political ambition is that of philosophy, which is also the best preparation for the government of a State.

- Plato's Republic


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28264252 - 04/05/23 09:06 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

relevance?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28264271 - 04/05/23 09:19 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Reaffirming your statement that "those who are qualified to run the country don't want the job"; and adding the suggestion that "shit pay" isn't a major contribution to this millenia-old dilemma.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos]
    #28264372 - 04/05/23 10:05 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

I think that kind of policy would gradually evolve into a sort of ruling class which uses the removal of property as political leverage against opposition, where those in power simply enrich themselves through the state instead. And it doesn't truly address corruption generally, and would discourage candidates who might be otherwise qualified from taking part against the ruling parties whatsoever out of fear of complete property loss for being a player. That also gradually means that those with property are always in step with the ruling class as a prerequisite to retaining it.

I think having stronger public disclosure requirements would be a better approach. But we more or less have reasonable public disclosure laws in place already and people still elect people with financial conflicts of interest which are practically public knowledge. It's a difficult problem to tackle.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why not just add execution by firing squad upon termination?



Praetorian Guard style


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Kryptos]
    #28264416 - 04/05/23 10:55 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Why only the POTUS and not all state and federal officials?

The idea seems fascist and authoritarian. 

Or, like the word "racist", have these words been so corrupted and bastardized that they now have zero meaning?

Anyone and anything my neighbor dislikes he calls fascist  :facepalm3:


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28264482 - 04/05/23 11:57 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Wouldn't your post kind of be an example of corrupting and bastardizing the meaning of the word fascist though, in that it's not truly a fascist policy by any historical metric or part of any fascist political philosophy?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28264486 - 04/05/23 11:59 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Reaffirming your statement that "those who are qualified to run the country don't want the job"; and adding the suggestion that "shit pay" isn't a major contribution to this millenia-old dilemma.



There's no way around the fact that whomever becomes President will be someone who wants the job.  As clever as Plato was, we can't get around that issue.

There are people, however, who have real skills and talent to be able to lead people, manage very large budgets, represent the interests of others, etc.  Those people make a lot of money.  Some are likely to even be moral people.  These would certainly be the best candidates for the job of President, but it would take a rare person to agree to do that for the pay and working conditions that come with the job.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: PatrickKn]
    #28264488 - 04/06/23 12:02 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Forcing an elected official to give up everything they own (to be donated the government) doesn't qualify as authoritarian?


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28264491 - 04/06/23 12:04 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

I didn't comment on the word authoritarian. I just noticed you kind of went full circle with lamenting about how people use hot words in ways which reduce their meaning in a post where you more or less did that yourself.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: PatrickKn]
    #28264498 - 04/06/23 12:12 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Synonyms for "fascist" = "authoritarian", "totalitarian", "autocrat", "dictatorship"

Communication often includes nuance.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28264511 - 04/06/23 12:52 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

yeah...and the nuance here is that fascism is an authoritarian system, but not every authoritarian system is fascist.  There's nothing fascist about the suggestion of the OP.  It's actually more akin to communist which is pretty fucking far from fascist.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28264537 - 04/06/23 02:09 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Why only the POTUS and not all state and federal officials?

The idea seems fascist and authoritarian. 

Or, like the word "racist", have these words been so corrupted and bastardized that they now have zero meaning?

Anyone and anything my neighbor dislikes he calls fascist  :facepalm3:




How is it fascist? Talk about abusing the meaning of the word.

If you work for the government, there are plenty of rules that limit your financial freedom. If you work managerial roles for the department of transportation, you cannot own stock in transportation related companies. No banking or financial related stocks for treasury employees. Financial conflicts of interest are forbidden for employees, why shouldn’t they be forbidden for elected officials?


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: koods]
    #28264657 - 04/06/23 06:13 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Why only the POTUS and not all state and federal officials?

The idea seems fascist and authoritarian. 

Or, like the word "racist", have these words been so corrupted and bastardized that now have zero meaning?

Anyone and anything my neighbor dislikes he calls fascist  :facepalm3:



Giving up your wealth voluntarily so that you may serve doesn't seem very fascist to me. No one made said person run for an office.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Make renouncing all property a condition of the presidency [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28264689 - 04/06/23 06:44 AM (9 months, 17 days ago)

He doesn’t know what a fascist is


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