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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: ashfiken]
    #28263167 - 04/05/23 08:17 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

I feel like that's a train of thought that would likely lead to a lot of oversexualization and misogyny in the form of unwanted gazes in public, careful where you spread that mutiny.

---a concerned millenial


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: ashfiken]
    #28263176 - 04/05/23 08:20 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

In general, I agree with you.  Men are being demonized these days and this is just one of the demeaning avenues.  Recently it's become popular to believe that men and women are the same (once you remove cultural gender roles & stereotypes) yet men have to deal with 10 to 20 times the testosterone levels as women.  That's a huge difference!


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #28263184 - 04/05/23 08:22 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

What is this "unwanted gazes" nobody is being a weirdo or a staring while stroking perv here..
An attentive glance is all it takes, there is no need to be overt or egregious with how one notices beauty..
Or are we as humans just not supposed to look at each other? I mean come on.
Is the hawk mad and flying away bc I am appreciative in my eye casting?
It only leads to oversexualization if you are a rude, inept, and possibly sex starved, jerk.


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #28263198 - 04/05/23 08:26 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
In general, I agree with you.  Men are being demonized these days and this is just one of the demeaning avenues.  Recently it's become popular to believe that men and women are the same (once you remove cultural gender roles & stereotypes) yet men have to deal with 10 to 20 times the testosterone levels as women.  That's a huge difference!




Yeah we are the same :eyeroll: just as much as a biological woman with a penis is really a biological male. No matter how much test is prescribed the chromosomes are the damn same.
I believe in equality to the most, but not full court psuedo-adrogeny or whatever you can call this sillyness


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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Anonymous #1

Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: ashfiken] * 1
    #28263256 - 04/05/23 09:00 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Just because you want to look at women doesn't mean women want to be looked at. The female experience is confusing.

You're 6 years old and get to play with all your male friends without a shirt, then you turn 14 and suddenly people are treating you different and you're segregated. Then you turn 18 and men give you things for no reason at all. Then you turn 21 and you realize you can have anything you want in the world. Then you turn 25 and you realize that men have been manipulating you for their own sexual gains and you now have some scars because of it; all you really want is someone to care about your inner world; your experience. Then you have a child and realize they too will learn all of that as well. Then you turn 35 and men who said "you're beautiful" were really just saying "you're hot" while continuing to say "I like looking at you because you're beautiful." Yet here you still are; should you say fuck the system? Should you play it for your own benefit? Dress in high heels and put your ass on the gram? It's a difficult dichotomy to balance, one where you don't want to be objectified yet playing the game gives you an edge that is undeniable. Both are true. Its a dangerous game, and for this reason we should protect women from predatory men by calling men out. Women can play the game for their own benefit. How a woman dresses is not for men.

A grandmother is beautiful. A child is beautiful. Women and men are beautiful. People are beautiful. Spend time with beauty. Lustful gaze is toward hotness.


Edited by Anonymous (04/05/23 09:06 AM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: ashfiken] * 3
    #28263257 - 04/05/23 09:00 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

BTW, I assume trans people don't embrace the belief males & females are the same.  I assume a prerequisite for believing you were born in the wrong body is to believe males & females are different.  On the other hand, maybe the non-binary crowd believes males & females are the same.


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28263348 - 04/05/23 09:57 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Anon 2:
women absolutely have it tough, in a sociological sense it is def more confusing for a female.
But men don't just have it easy or anything either.
Social/sexual manipulation is not moral period. I don't think a glance of appreciation translates to that.
If a woman doesn't wanna be looked at then maybe stay home?
If a man doesn't wanna be looked at he should do the same?
I mean we all have eyes, ppl are going to be aware of things around them..
This should not be immediately offensive to any party.
Women should absolutely be protected from veritable predators.
An appreciative and natural glance, in a far from rude way, may have some sense of lust, but doesn't equate a lustful gaze.
I think the biggest difference here is the wantoness to  cut and dry separate, value of beauty, and lustful objectivization/sexualization.
This shit gets harder as time goes on, bc ppl are so FUCKED.

RJTubs
That Is a very  well thought out line of thinking. And you are absolutely right if I thought they were the same why would I want to be the other or feel I'm the "wrong" one.
Nice capstone with the nonbinary folks 👌
I'd hope they know they are different and just feel like they are their own share of both.. or their own neither nor?
Things are very muddled nowadays, and somehow men that just wanna be men, kind, yet gender role classical, are looked at as some kind of foreign beast.
I first started noticing the difference being widened when dudes started wearing jeans with bedazzles on the back pockets


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


Edited by ashfiken (04/05/23 09:59 AM)


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: ashfiken]
    #28263389 - 04/05/23 10:30 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
What is this "unwanted gazes" nobody is being a weirdo or a staring while stroking perv here..
An attentive glance is all it takes, there is no need to be overt or egregious with how one notices beauty..
Or are we as humans just not supposed to look at each other? I mean come on.
Is the hawk mad and flying away bc I am appreciative in my eye casting?
It only leads to oversexualization if you are a rude, inept, and possibly sex starved, jerk.



I was being facetious

We haven't interacted much or you'd know I'm pretty much on the same page as you.  as long as that page uses my proper pronouns /s


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: theRealrollforever] * 1
    #28263659 - 04/05/23 01:19 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:

So my signs were #1, the first potluck we had, she was giving me "The Look". The Look is a lusty gaze that non-verbally says "If we were alone, i would make-out with you".




The feminist movement describes the "male gaze" as objectifying, sexualizing, and diminishing women.  When men view women as sexual passive objects that exist for the pleasure of males.   

They claim the male hyper-sexualization of women thwarts a man's castration anxiety via practices of voyeurism-sadism and fetishization of the female body.  Fueled by patriarchy and socio-political inequality.





The feminist movement is retarded then.


--------------------
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Edited by myc_ousin_vinny (04/05/23 01:20 PM)


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #28263704 - 04/05/23 01:54 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
What is this "unwanted gazes" nobody is being a weirdo or a staring while stroking perv here..
An attentive glance is all it takes, there is no need to be overt or egregious with how one notices beauty..
Or are we as humans just not supposed to look at each other? I mean come on.
Is the hawk mad and flying away bc I am appreciative in my eye casting?
It only leads to oversexualization if you are a rude, inept, and possibly sex starved, jerk.



I was being facetious

We haven't interacted much or you'd know I'm pretty much on the same page as you.  as long as that page uses my proper pronouns /s





Lmfao. Thanks you bro.
Cheers!


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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Anonymous #2

Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #28264532 - 04/06/23 01:56 AM (9 months, 18 days ago)

This entire discussion is kind of a mess.

OP, you're not wrong, but with this few data points I don't really see much cause to pursue this line of thought. You can ask her out (I'd advise against it as dating colleagues is messy) but if you aren't going to put this whole thing outta your mind and FAST cause it'll only destabilize your mind. I'm already sensing some of that honestly. There's a way for people to write in this overly-analytical faux reasonable manner that tends to belie a certain degree of, in modern parlance, "being schizo".


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28265670 - 04/06/23 04:42 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:

So my signs were #1, the first potluck we had, she was giving me "The Look". The Look is a lusty gaze that non-verbally says "If we were alone, i would make-out with you".




The feminist movement describes the "male gaze" as objectifying, sexualizing, and diminishing women.  When men view women as sexual passive objects that exist for the pleasure of males.   

They claim the male hyper-sexualization of women thwarts a man's castration anxiety via practices of voyeurism-sadism and fetishization of the female body.  Fueled by patriarchy and socio-political inequality.




I am apt to agree with that.


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: loladoreen]
    #28265686 - 04/06/23 04:52 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Men can’t gaze at women. Ok. We’re in upside down world now. 😏


--------------------
Bod's Easy AF Search Engine TEK

Let's stay focused on what works consistently.

"Sitting in a bunker here behind my wall..."


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Anonymous #1

Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: myc_ousin_vinny] * 1
    #28265701 - 04/06/23 05:00 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Men can’t gaze at women. Ok. We’re in upside down world now. 😏




Men can gaze at women; just know that it generally makes them uncomfortable and the younger generation knows this as well, hence they are no longer staring at women as much.

It is becoming well known that men gazing at women has sexual undertones, and this world is becoming less tolerant of unwanted sexuality. Gaze at women at your own social risk.


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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #28265819 - 04/06/23 06:02 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

What the fuck ever.


--------------------
Bod's Easy AF Search Engine TEK

Let's stay focused on what works consistently.

"Sitting in a bunker here behind my wall..."


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #28265902 - 04/06/23 06:36 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Quote:

myc_ousin_vinny said:
Men can’t gaze at women. Ok. We’re in upside down world now. 😏




Men can gaze at women; just know that it generally makes them uncomfortable and the younger generation knows this as well, hence they are no longer staring at women as much.

It is becoming well known that men gazing at women has sexual undertones, and this world is becoming less tolerant of unwanted sexuality. Gaze at women at your own social risk.




Agree
I don't think every man that gazes at me has sexual motives...
I don't .
But its creepy when a gaze feels like a stare.
I have never met a woman that has not been sexually assaulted, stalked, or abused in some way.
If you are not that man, then that is awesome!!!! No one is ever saying all men.
But... a lot do.. A LOT


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: loladoreen] * 2
    #28265925 - 04/06/23 06:48 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Same foolish fucks paying for onlyfans subscriptions.
Weak sexually manipulated and prob mostly sex starved and mostly dumb male primates.
Females like to have sex too.
All this oversexualization shit is nonsense.
Rape culture is absolute a thing but Jesus christ this is out there.
But acting like males and females are anything but 2 genders of a well developed species of primate, that commonly, like to fuxk(m&f) and is a natural occurrence creating the growth of our species.

I "gaze" at all humans.
And while yes usually if a woman is shaped in a way I like, or w/e, yes I will glance at her body, but mostly I look at ppl in the face.
I look in their eyes.
How is that sexual?
I do it to men.
I am hetero.
Everyone deserves to be recognized as a fucking entity so I look at them. Sometimes I am perceiving a threat, or maybe looking for kindness and humility, or maybe looking for an ill eat your socks off your feet look.
All depending upon a mutual interaction between two equals.
It's wild to think this is somehow "among the younger gen" fucking taboo.
Some woke stupid fucking monkeys the lot

I think also all women should carry guns in America and know how to use them safely and properly.


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: ashfiken] * 2
    #28272374 - 04/11/23 07:34 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

As a male, I never feel objectified when a female stares at me.  I was once stalked by a girlfriend (for example, she'd park in front of my house spying on me) but I never felt offended or thought of it as assault. 

I'm not offended by women who are infatuated with Channing Tatum, Tom Brady, Zac Efron, George Clooney, Liam Hemsworth, or Brad Pitt.  I'm not offended if women want to see male strippers during a bachelorette party.

I'm not offended if a female boss at work asks me for oral sex as a condition for a job promotion.  I'd feel honored she asked.  People are too sensitive these days.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28272482 - 04/11/23 09:01 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
As a male, I never feel objectified when a female stares at me.  I was once stalked by a girlfriend (for example, she'd park in front of my house spying on me) but I never felt offended or thought of it as assault. 

I'm not offended by women who are infatuated with Channing Tatum, Tom Brady, Zac Efron, George Clooney, Liam Hemsworth, or Brad Pitt.  I'm not offended if women want to see male strippers during a bachelorette party.

I'm not offended if a female boss at work asks me for oral sex as a condition for a job promotion.  I'd feel honored she asked.  People are too sensitive these days.




Key word here: you're a male.

Imagine if you had to suck a dick and swallow cum to earn a promotion, then take it up the asshole into your tight sphincter in order to be appreciated. Now imagine that everyone you walk past would like to bend you over and take your sweet ass, then never talk to you again. Then imagine you may have to raise a child because of this. Now imagine that all the people you are potentially a victim to will come up to you on the daily and offer you things. Imagine how confusing it would be for you to differentiate your own worth vs people who are trying to manipulate you on a daily basis. As a woman, it is damn hard to differentiate a good actor from a bad actor.

Do you see the problem here?


Edited by Anonymous (04/11/23 09:13 AM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Women and Dressing Up [Re: Anonymous #1] * 2
    #28273013 - 04/11/23 03:02 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Annon #2 has a point, thats the male privilage. Several years ago, I was once thoroghly-gazed/flirted with by a gay dude at a bar. That night, i saw a small glimpse of what its like to be a woman. It was a very enlightening, eye-opening experience.


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