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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28278402 - 04/15/23 05:33 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
...

If religion is life itself then eating hearts is all the jam, I mean even that moses or whoever fella was storied to have killed his son Isaac or some bumble because a burning bush sucked him off behind the caves of a zombie?

Historically religion is a way to center the masses and coalesce society to work towards a single cause or purpose, and for that purpose I think religion has worked well. But the specifics are bat shit insane.



this is so widely written about that I amazed you have it so garbled, that is not something to be proud of.
It easily leads to wrong stories proliferating.
in precis from google
Quote:

Although Sarah was past the age of childbearing, God promised Abraham and Sarah that they would have a son, and Isaac was born. Later, to test Abraham's obedience, God commanded Abraham to sacrifice the boy. Abraham made all the preparations for the ritual sacrifice, but God spared Isaac at the last moment.





in a different tale much more psychedelic as part of the exodus story after ending hebrew slavery in Egypt, also from google
Quote:

There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of a bush; he looked, and the bush was blazing, yet it was not consumed. Then Moses said, 'I must turn aside and look at this great sight, and see why the bush is not burned up.




nevertheless, I agree the stories are pretty nutty. But we do see odd behavior from our peers when it comes to hallucination.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28278421 - 04/15/23 05:46 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I know I garbled it, but I don't think that makes a difference to the story :shrug:

The madman only stopped because an angel pulled the ol switcheroo on him.

Quote:

According to the Hebrew Bible, God commands Abraham to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice. After Isaac is bound to an altar, a messenger from God stops Abraham before the sacrifice finishes, saying "now I know you fear God". Abraham looks up and sees a ram and sacrifices it instead of Isaac.




I don't see why I would think the former over the later.

Quote:

the flame Moses saw was in fact God's Uncreated Energies/Glory, manifested as light




Quote:

Suggestions have been made that the Dictamnus albus plant, found throughout northern Africa is a candidate for the burning bush. In the summer, the plant, also known as the “gas plant,” exudes a variety of volatile oils that can catch fire readily and may give the impression that the bush is burning





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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28278441 - 04/15/23 06:10 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

so it was real?
i thought it was hallucinatory
that manna can really f*ck with your brain


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28278451 - 04/15/23 06:21 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I mean without a rigorous explanation of natural observations I can't necessarily blame ancient people for having their own interpretations of the phenomena they witness, but I still think it's important to try and come to some kind of rational conclusion about them.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28278619 - 04/15/23 08:50 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

yes, we have to keep waking up, even after we wake up.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: I reject religion [Re: burntkitty]
    #28279861 - 04/16/23 12:33 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

I am open towards religion, meaning I view many religious themes as having hidden allegories which are timeless.  I think if viewed in a philosophical light, then the world's religions can be illuminating. 

You have to understand some of the stuff in certain religious texts is relevant for the state of mind which was prevalent when those texts were written and we have evolved a lot since then. 

There are tons of allegories, metaphors, and other things found throughout religion which we see throughout numerous stories, even unrelated children's stories contain some of the same messages just told in a different way, which tells me that there are truths which echo throughout existence which we find value in retelling in numerous ways.

I would like to see someone rewrite the worlds religions, maybe use an algorithm to pull information out of the world's religious texts and see what is relevant and then publish what is relevant into one religious text for everyone, just for fun of course.  I am not supporting a one world religious thing, I don't get into conspiracy stuff!

Anyway, I know the golden rule is never going to go out of style, but I also know that one doesn't have to be religious to understand the truth of the golden rule.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Lucis]
    #28279885 - 04/16/23 01:16 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

And now the stuff of certain religious texts isn't relevant anymore because we have modern understandings of natural phenomena.

What would we find that is relevant from the world religious texts? Good question I suppose.

Come say there is not one of the four thousand gods posited and what then?


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28280268 - 04/16/23 09:28 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
What would we find that is relevant from the world religious texts? Good question I suppose.





It's not about putting a modern understanding on something, which I know we have many modern ways of interpreting things, but if you can educate others using certain stories then it will make things easier for certain people to mentally digest.

If you were in another country and trying to teach foreigners there a life lesson and they were religious but you were not yet you were familiar with religious stories and trying to find common ground then you might turn to a parable to teach from since the parable contained a lesson which held great value to the people you were trying to educate. 

Many Disney movies teach children lessons yet we see those same lessons being taught in a different way other than the childish ways that certain cartoons present them.  Does that make sense, sorry I am rushed and have to get to work!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Lucis]
    #28280335 - 04/16/23 10:13 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

try again later
I got that you are writing about impersonating religiosity in order to communicate with religious people in a foreign country and am wondering where this is going.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Lucis]
    #28280760 - 04/16/23 03:54 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

We have kids books about plants if you want to spoon feed people interesting stories in simple ways.

Hypothetically I would find common ground with religious people through gratitude to the Sun and nature, but the worry in that is how emotionally stable the individuals are and if they'd become defensive with talk that isn't entirely congruent to their own religious views.

Parables don't have to be religious so I don't see why anyone should buy into that framing other than to appease people of a specific religion for concern of them finding offense.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28280968 - 04/16/23 06:21 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

So Rgvs do you believe in absolute knowledge?

Or do you think a person at best can tell the truth all the time as a best possible attainment?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28281114 - 04/16/23 07:56 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
So Rgvs do you believe in absolute knowledge?

Or do you think a person at best can tell the truth all the time as a best possible attainment?



I think this is two questions aimed at me
I do not believe in absolute knowledge
nor anything absolute.

I think a person should be as honest with themselves as they can be.
It is similar to not lying, but it is not about always telling the truth, since truth itself is elusive, and usually what is taken for the truth is not even true.
best to be honest about that with yourself.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28281359 - 04/16/23 10:36 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
We have kids books about plants if you want to spoon feed people interesting stories in simple ways.

Hypothetically I would find common ground with religious people through gratitude to the Sun and nature, but the worry in that is how emotionally stable the individuals are and if they'd become defensive with talk that isn't entirely congruent to their own religious views.

Parables don't have to be religious so I don't see why anyone should buy into that framing other than to appease people of a specific religion for concern of them finding offense.




I agree with you here.

What I was saying is that even if you weren't Christian but knew a lot about Christianity or some other religion or myth, tale, legend,, etc, then you might be able to help others through a tough time who are Christian or another path by reworking their stories into a narrative which helps them understand something, sort of like feeding someone "soul food", does that make sense?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Lucis]
    #28281414 - 04/16/23 11:54 PM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Building a narrative catered around someone's specific religiosity isn't appealing to me.

If someone only liked Japanese food I'd be g with that, but trying to express messages through a specific religious framing just appears needy or coddled to me.

And frankly I'm not attracted to that sort of mindset either :shrug:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Lucis]
    #28281542 - 04/17/23 04:45 AM (9 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Lucis said:
...

What I was saying is that even if you weren't Christian but knew a lot about Christianity or some other religion or myth, tale, legend,, etc, then you might be able to help others through a tough time who are Christian or another path by reworking their stories into a narrative which helps them understand something, sort of like feeding someone "soul food", does that make sense?




I think this does make sense, if it is possible to engage respectfully without seeming to be an imposter.

in other words, making an effort to feel the other person's pain the best way you can, to better understand, which naturally would include some measure of understanding culture and religion.


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OnlineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Lucis]
    #28282352 - 04/17/23 04:26 PM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Lucis said:

Many Disney movies teach children lessons yet we see those same lessons being taught in a different way other than the childish ways that certain cartoons present them. 




:thumbup:

From Star Wars to The Big Lebowski to The Matrix


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28286601 - 04/20/23 10:06 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Its nice to see nearly everyone still here and still all in the same good spirits.  ; )

If we spend a lot of time convincing ourselves that something is true or not true... does that mean we are afraid it is what we hope it is not?


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"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28286604 - 04/20/23 10:09 AM (9 months, 4 days ago)

well it is a familiar table around which to have a few drinks and morsels of blood or bread


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28286726 - 04/20/23 12:03 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Religion keeps people from knowing the causal agent responsible for the formation of the universe.

The Masons don't actually know stone masonry anymore, but there are a few masons that know stonework.


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"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28287191 - 04/20/23 06:22 PM (9 months, 3 days ago)

When the first pro-Christian argument in this entire thread is literally Pascal's wager all over again, well... it makes contemporary followers of Abrahamic religions look incredibly lazy.


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