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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: I reject religion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28333942 - 05/25/23 11:00 AM (9 months, 29 days ago)

just go with the principle then,
you don't get extra points by the jesusification of your merits.
nor do you get it by buddhafying


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,250
Re: I reject religion [Re: epilectric]
    #28334164 - 05/25/23 01:29 PM (9 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
all you religion haters just take it too literally...

sudly, when was the last time you took a psychedelic? you seem like a very closed minded person




When people take religion too literally I listen, and I like to be open minded, just not so open minded for the brain to fall out.

I appreciate elequant understandings of wooh wooh concepts and respect some people who even consider themselves witches, as they practice rituals in a similar way to others praying.

I like a mindful practitioner.

Psychedelics solidified my irreligiousity.

I think mysticism is god without a name, very esoteric. 


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,912
Last seen: 1 hour, 38 minutes
Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28334272 - 05/25/23 02:28 PM (9 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
just go with the principle then,
you don't get extra points by the jesusification of your merits.
nor do you get it by buddhafying




Not extra, but perhaps helpful for one to get them, role models, a preference.

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Offlineblessed


Registered: 07/16/11
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28334833 - 05/25/23 11:09 PM (9 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Interesting.  What do you make of John Allegro's work if you've read it?  What of the 'psychedelic gospels' theory?  Nice pics...!!



I haven't heard of John Allegro or anything about "'psychedelic gospels' theory".  I'll look into it (when I can) and then get I'll back to you what I think about them both.

I will say that your recent post have made me wonder if anyone from the Bible consumed Magic Mushrooms or not, and the first question that comes to mind is, are there/were there Magic Mushrooms in the areas mentioned in the Bible (OT & NT)?

Btw, Sorry I haven't made that post yet, I'll endeavor to soon-ish.



Quote:

sudly said:
You are                            good        now.




  :thumbup:

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,250
Re: I reject religion [Re: blessed]
    #28334858 - 05/26/23 12:27 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

Magic mushrooms were definitely around.

With ample bovine populations.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Registered: 05/15/18
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28335191 - 05/26/23 08:04 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

There were some psychoactive plants available to people in those regions as well, such as Peganum Harmala.
IDK if you have ever consumed them, but if you mix them with anything even slightly psychedelic (like LSA or ergotamine or whatever the Greeks used in the Eleusinian mystery rites), you can get pretty wild hallucinatory effects.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28335214 - 05/26/23 08:33 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I think mysticism is god without a name, very esoteric. 




esoteric.. everything that doesn't fit western mainstream science is called esoteric. the use of this word just means that you're brainwashed by technocrats imo.

it's the notion that knowledge was basically invented by white people subjugating tribes in the colonised lands.

i'd rather be esoteric than white supremacist (unconsciously)!

Edited by epilectric (05/26/23 08:39 AM)

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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,912
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Re: I reject religion [Re: epilectric]
    #28335251 - 05/26/23 09:13 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

To me I think it means most simply, internal.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: I reject religion [Re: syncro]
    #28335330 - 05/26/23 10:19 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

I haven't heard of John Allegro or anything about "'psychedelic gospels' theory".  I'll look into it (when I can) and then get I'll back to you what I think about them both.




Wow!  Thats surprising.  Please do.

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Offlineepilectric
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Re: I reject religion [Re: syncro]
    #28335403 - 05/26/23 11:02 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
To me I think it means most simply, internal.




it's basically the feeling of ego loss and the merging of the inner and outer world as one reality... the stuff every religion in its core was initially based upon..

other than that religion can provide a nice community feeling and positive attitudes that may trickle down to the rest of society. or it can incite war and terror... its up to the carriers


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: I reject religion [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #28335447 - 05/26/23 11:38 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: I reject religion [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #28335449 - 05/26/23 11:40 AM (9 months, 28 days ago)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: epilectric]
    #28335524 - 05/26/23 12:24 PM (9 months, 28 days ago)

esoteric refers to private and secret like
Quote:

intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.


, and occult refers to hidden.

it is not about any kind of conspiracy of scientists.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28335571 - 05/26/23 01:00 PM (9 months, 28 days ago)

okay then, maybe i'm esoteric.. 🤷


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: epilectric]
    #28335588 - 05/26/23 01:16 PM (9 months, 28 days ago)

so you are not telling


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28335595 - 05/26/23 01:24 PM (9 months, 28 days ago)

ok go ahead, burn me ...

gonna switch to the spirituality & mysticism forum. have fun


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

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Edited by epilectric (05/26/23 01:29 PM)

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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Svetaketu]
    #28355821 - 06/11/23 03:55 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Sorry for the delay I was doing an academic sprint for the finish line. This is my first weekend with no dissertation bologna to worry about for a  long time! : )

Regarding the Goldilocks argument (the “fine tuning of the universe”), if you are interested to learn about it there is a lot of information out there on the web.

Peter Atkins is perhaps the most sound atheistic voice of reason defending against the fine tuning of the universe. Here are Atkins' main points to support your position (against mine):

1. God must be very fond of rock. He could have used a very different set of fundamental constants that would be conducive to life and avoided all of the rock that there is.
2. We are basing our views on the kind of chemistry that we are familiar with. Maybe a slightly different form of life based on silicon or aluminum would have been possible.
3. Multiverse hypothesis. Suppose there are nearly an infinite array of universes that exist. The fine tuning of the universe is just an astronomical coincidence. With so many universes, it is not surprising that one got it right for us to exist.
4. Lets look at the fundamental viewpoint of this whole argument about the fine tuning of the univrse. What is so special about life? Why are we making it such a marvelous event? Life is a jolly nice form of matter, but let’s not put it on a pedestal.

Cheers!


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28355841 - 06/11/23 04:14 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

I know that there's more than a 0% chance of life being out there since it happened here. I don't doubt there atleast bacteria like stuff on many planets. We just happened to luck out and survive till now.

Rocky planets are generally closer to the Sun, the gaseous planets are further out where the Suns heat and rays don't have as much of an impact. Distance to the Sun determines a lot of the rockyness a planet has when it develops from the accretion of gasses left over from the Suns formation. 

I see no point in hypothesising multiverses or what benefit or insight that could bring other than a feel good 'that'd be neat', like being able to poop ice cream.

I don't see reason to think there isn't a good probability of non carbon based life somewhere, a single cell of any sort is life, and with all the environmental variety of other planets it seems plausible to me.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28355857 - 06/11/23 04:26 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

But even as much as I am spiritually opposed to organized religion, humans are better off with religious institutions.

In any Islamic city under the strict rule of Sharia Law, you can leave your phone and bag on a park bench as you play ball, and when you return, nobody will have stolen it. The same can be said of the Dutch Reformed town of Pella, Iowa where it is so strict that residents do not mow their lawns on Sundays. The same can also be said for any Amish community.

One function of religion is to provide societal governance. Most of our current cultural ideology comes from religion. Some degree of honesty is taught by most every major religion. Teaching people to refrain from killing others, to take care of the poor, to work hard, to prepare for scarcity... there are several different values in our society that come from organized religions.

In many ways our current Western secular democracy is just first-century Christianity with the offensive bits about God removed. Western democracy's military missionaries are proselytizing the "unenlightened" ini hubris to spread our own brand of freedom. It seems that the high priests of today's secular religion are those who control commerce. The spice must flow.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,250
Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #28355897 - 06/11/23 05:02 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

And this is from 2015..

Quote:

The U.S. Catholic church has incurred nearly $4 billion in costs related to the priest sex abuse crisis during the past 65 years, according to an extensive NCR investigation of media reports, databases and church documents.

In addition, separate research recently published calculates that other scandal-related consequences such as lost membership and diverted giving has cost the church more than $2.3 billion annually for the past 30 years.

Between 1950 and August of this year, the church has paid out $3,994,797,060.10, NCR found.

https://www.ncronline.org/ncr-research-costs-sex-abuse-crisis-us-church-underestimated




In regard to Sharia law, taken from a womans perspective, it's oppressive. You're missing the ball with focus on leaving a phone in a park when the woman can't even go to the park without a man.

I also have no idea how it can be a good thing not to be allowed to mow your lawn on a Sunday. Sounds like masochism or a sub-kink the way you've explained it.

The amish community might do well without the allure of social media, but I'm not a fan of the traditional roles that are generally advocated within.

Plus the whole women can't be church leaders thing,
Quote:

Amish women have the right to vote in Member’s Meetings and also to nominate candidates for church ministry.  However, they do not serve in that same church leadership.




Historically nearly all cultures were religious but nowadays whatever religious culture exists, isn't fundamental to a working society when there are already secular values in place. Taking care of others isn't inherently religious, and frankly plenty of religious idealogues of modern times do everything they can to hurt others and take from them. Pat Robertson, McConnel, all the megachurch pastors etc. Jesus was a socialist before it was a thing, a hippy among hippies, the whole camel will pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man, the pacifism of turning the other cheek etc. Certainly nothing espoused to by much of the right wing religious compendium. Religion is often a facade for greed.

Would you be okay with a publically funded Muslim school, Satan school, spaghetti monster school? Are you okay with this?

Quote:

Oklahoma OKs the nation’s first religious charter school – but litigation is likely to follow

“The approval of any publicly funded religious school is contrary to Oklahoma law and not in the best interest of taxpayers,” Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond said in a statement after the Monday vote, warning that the board and state will likely face legal challenges.

The key question is not whether a charter would help or harm local education, but whether explicitly religious instruction at charter schools is constitutional, given the First Amendment’s protections against government establishment of religion. Moreover, Oklahoma law requires charter schools to be nonsectarian.

https://theconversation.com/oklahoma-oks-the-nations-first-religious-charter-school-but-litigation-is-likely-to-follow-207103




There are no high priests of 'secular religion', that's a silly non-sequitar. There are corporate crony capatalists who don't use religion as an afront to fulfill their own desires, and some that do.

Religion isn't relevant to the modern day, any use of it in the political atmosphere is generally an excuse or dodge. Religion is no longer the foundation of our culture that it historically has been, it's not the reason we can be nice and caring, and it is the reason a lot of people give money to, or trust unscrupulous characters. But there are plenty of those religous or not.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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