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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
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Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? 1
#28259943 - 04/03/23 12:17 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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There are a few liquid culture companies who make this claim, which I have yet to see any data or test results on yet.
I was under the impression any live mycelium is producing alkaloids, using a "low dose" of nutrients doesn't make much sense to me how it will prevent live mycelium from containing alkaloids.
Anyone understand this? At this point I am skeptical and it just seems like people trying to push the boundaries
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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NoChill
Señor Siesta


Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 159
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: Eclipse3130]
#28276533 - 04/13/23 08:29 PM (9 months, 10 days ago) |
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I have heard anecdotally that they don't produce psilocybin until hyphae start phorming.
This may be outdated, unfounded cult myth though.
I am curious as well.
-NC
-------------------- Agar Saves!
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: NoChill]
#28276812 - 04/14/23 04:00 AM (9 months, 9 days ago) |
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Psilocybin production doesn't start until they reach the pinning stage and that generally doesn't happen in liquid cultures. There has to be some kind of suitable substrate to pin on first.
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Icyurmt
Strange


Registered: 04/02/20
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: Kizzle] 2
#28277311 - 04/14/23 11:50 AM (9 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Psilocybin production doesn't start until they reach the pinning stage and that generally doesn't happen in liquid cultures. There has to be some kind of suitable substrate to pin on first.
According to Alan Rockefeller, All psilocybin mushrooms have active mycelium, some are more potent than others. As a general rule, species with more potent fruits have more potent mycelium.
This study not only found psilocin in mycelium, but that to some extent it also permeated the agar on which it grew.
PDF Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the ...
"The mycelium samples contained only psilocin with an average concentration of 0.15 wt.% of dry matter. Mycelial samples in previously published studies have contained highly variable concentrations of psilocin (0.0–0.2 wt.%) and psilocybin (0.0–2.0 wt.%). The results of our analysis are in the range of the published values.45 47 We also tried to evaluate whether psilocin permeates through agar, and we found that approximately 10 times lower concentrations of psilocin (0.01 wt.%) were quantified in the agar on which the mycelium grew."
-------------------- 👁️ 🌊 why you are empty. Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.
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tholos
Stranger


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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: Icyurmt]
#28277872 - 04/14/23 06:37 PM (9 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyurmt said:
Quote:
Kizzle said: Psilocybin production doesn't start until they reach the pinning stage and that generally doesn't happen in liquid cultures. There has to be some kind of suitable substrate to pin on first.
According to Alan Rockefeller, All psilocybin mushrooms have active mycelium, some are more potent than others. As a general rule, species with more potent fruits have more potent mycelium.
This study not only found psilocin in mycelium, but that to some extent it also permeated the agar on which it grew.
PDF Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the ...
"The mycelium samples contained only psilocin with an average concentration of 0.15 wt.% of dry matter. Mycelial samples in previously published studies have contained highly variable concentrations of psilocin (0.0–0.2 wt.%) and psilocybin (0.0–2.0 wt.%). The results of our analysis are in the range of the published values.45 47 We also tried to evaluate whether psilocin permeates through agar, and we found that approximately 10 times lower concentrations of psilocin (0.01 wt.%) were quantified in the agar on which the mycelium grew."
I've had mycelium on agar adjacent to where I've taken a transfer from turn blue, and also mycelium growing on/near the original agar wedge turn blue, it was the one isolation that did it on multiple plates back to back, was weird
I've always assumed that the blue color was the oxidation of alkaloid (specifically psilocin)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: tholos] 2
#28278140 - 04/14/23 10:09 PM (9 months, 9 days ago) |
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Liquid cultures definitely can produce psilocybin. Whether the average LC does at detectable levels is unknown - there are lots of LC recipes and the crime labs don't have a uniform cutoff that I know of.
There are recipes out there for psilocybin production using LC, usually intended for bioreactors. There are some companies that do this commercially, though it hasn't gotten popular.
Whether there is psilocybin production in low nutrient LC is another unanswered question. Probably depends a lot on what trace nutrients are present. It should be possible to create LC's that produce little or no psilocybin.
Actual production of psilocybin in LC depends a lot on the species and strain used.
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rxb
n00b-sabot



Registered: 08/24/13
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stone produces probably have alkaloids in LC
<EDIT> i answered before reading AR's answer which was admitedly dumb, but the paper he quoted specifically says that it was indeed found using stone producers....
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (04/15/23 07:24 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: rxb]
#28279539 - 04/15/23 07:34 PM (9 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
rxb said: stone produces probably have alkaloids in LC
They do but not in high amounts.
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rxb
n00b-sabot



Registered: 08/24/13
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when the jars are colonized you can definitely get plenty of alkaloids from the rye berries...i eat that shit with a spoon and a grin. i imagine that honey and water isnt enough to generate any fun tho or i´d have already put it in a sports bottle
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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herbstation
Child


Registered: 01/05/23
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: Eclipse3130] 1
#28279957 - 04/16/23 03:30 AM (9 months, 7 days ago) |
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I don't have my source and I'm tired but I read somewhere that they germinate spores in a very low nutrient solution to get their LC then they proof it out on agar. The mycelium has to reach a certain robustness before it will mature fully, so the "pinning stage" they refer to isn't necessarily when it makes pins but when it becomes capable of making pins. That's when it starts making alkaloids but when the myc is really young it is focused entirely on networking. The spores germinate and then stall out.
So I imagine as soon as it has enough infrastructure to "fund" a pin it starts making alkaloids, regardless of whether it pins or keeps colonizing? Theoretically?
Or some shit.
Quote:
What we now offer is 100% free of any psychoactive alkaloids, as tested and proven by HPLC testing. Our proprietary Low-Dose Nutrient Solution (LDNS) prevents the mycelium from developing farther than early-stage mycelium. This means that our cubensis LC’s are a bit “thinner” than standard LC’s, but that’s to prevent the mycelium from maturing and developing any illegal alkaloids.
- sporestock.com (I have never bought and not endorsing I'm just saying this is where I got the info)
-------------------- Expanding my mind until I can join the collective
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herbstation
Child


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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: herbstation] 1
#28279959 - 04/16/23 03:32 AM (9 months, 7 days ago) |
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They claim to have confirmed it with HPLC so maybe they're bluffing but that wouldn't be too hard
-------------------- Expanding my mind until I can join the collective
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on_a_dventure
Goat raper

Registered: 11/18/23
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Re: Liquid Culture not Producing Alkaloids? [Re: herbstation]
#28577686 - 12/10/23 07:33 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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Sorry to be late on this one but what varieties would carry the highest alkaloid content in a bioreactor liquid culture for psilocybin production for extraction we are using psilocybe semilanceata as it's had the highest alkaloid content at 1.9% in lc also Mexicana has a .9 alkaloid content .I've tried using the bisporus and atl#7:but can't get there percentages higher than .4% any ideas on additives that would spike levels just for info we've tried most popular varieties with small amounts of success ghost hillbillies etc...and no consistency any advice n ideas greatly appreciated
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