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Offlineergot
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The LSD Shortage...
    #2825958 - 06/24/04 10:17 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps the lack of LSD has significance. Perhaps the Great Spirit, God, Creator, Tao, Reality, etc. has created this dynamic in chaos to place greater importance on the cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms. The psychedelic movement of the 60s was primarily focused on LSD and went bust... could the LSD shortage of today be a divine strategy to push the flow of the stream in a particular direction (i.e., entheogens)?

-ergot :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2826009 - 06/24/04 10:34 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Due to it's legal status LSD is a dead end. Only a fool wants to face felony charges due to possessing one hit of it. The spiritualism it engendered in the 60s was mostly false and self aggrandizing. The 60s was an era full of self important hypocrites on both sides of the political spectrum from the hippies to the republicans. The 60s was also a watershed decade for political and religious reform but LSD was painted the villain. It is usually put in the line up with crack and heroin with most people. Shrooms and other organic entheogens are not as prone to commercialization and have long histories of use in primitive cultures while being much more friendly. Their possesion is also usually a misdemeanor or legal and not completely frowned upon by "normal"(forgive me for using this term here but I couldn't find a better one on short notice(what is normal really?))people.

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Offlineergot
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2826026 - 06/24/04 10:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, but if it was meant to be, as some people say... LSD would still be thriving and the catalyst for a new era in spirituality...


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho

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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2826153 - 06/24/04 11:10 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I whole heartedly agree with you. But i do believe that LSD will be back, it will just take time.

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OfflineDigs
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2826467 - 06/25/04 12:20 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

It's just a down turn in the cycle, I wouldn't read that much into it :P

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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2826544 - 06/25/04 12:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Damn dude, thats an interesting thought.  :thumbup:


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Yeah spinnin' around again
yea caught in a tailspin

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2826730 - 06/25/04 02:17 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
Perhaps the lack of LSD has significance. Perhaps the Great Spirit, God, Creator, Tao, Reality, etc. has created this dynamic in chaos to place greater importance on the cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms. The psychedelic movement of the 60s was primarily focused on LSD and went bust... could the LSD shortage of today be a divine strategy to push the flow of the stream in a particular direction (i.e., entheogens)?

-ergot :mushroom2:




YES! errr...no.

what is the spiritual significance of the pack of anti-histamines crumpled up in my back pocket?

I hope that answers your qeeeuuuestion.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflineAnonymous
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2826758 - 06/25/04 02:36 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

that doesnt make sense

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Anonymous]
    #2827071 - 06/25/04 06:27 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

yeah no comparison between anti histamines and psychadelics,
or at least id like to see your explanation of that, besides their both chemicals.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2827085 - 06/25/04 06:34 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Since they are preeminently personal, and Holy, I will not describe them in a public forum - but I will say that the Experiences that I had on high doses of LSD have never been approached with Psilocybin. This is why Leary and Alpert changed from Psilocybin to LSD after Michael Hollingshead turned them on to his mayonnaise jar with acid-laced sugar. After cutting one's teeth on late 60's, early 70's LSD, I have to say that there really is a world of difference. I grew up within visual range of Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, and made deliveries there often. Unlike my college roommate, I never had any of their little blue acid tabs, but I did take Sandoz Psilocybin a few times and so I have a basis for comparison. No disrespect to the Sacred Mushrooms here! but, to use a Biblical analogy: the Mushrooms have taken me to the veil that separates the Temple's inner sanctum from the Holy of Holies. Acid took me inside the Holy of Holies. One need not however, 'go in unto the LORD,' so-to-speak, more than once in a lifetime to get the Message. All subsequent trips have been 'reminders,' in my experience. If LSD vanishes it is at least more retrievable than the lost Ark of the Covenant upon which the Indwelling Presence of GOD rent space-time to appear.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2827250 - 06/25/04 08:19 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Only a fool wants to face felony charges due to possessing one hit of it. The
Exactly. You might as well have 100,000 hits. :smile:

The spiritualism it engendered in the 60s was mostly false and self aggrandizing.
The 60s was an era full of self important hypocrites on both sides of the political spectrum from the hippies to the republicans.

You mean unlike the current level of "true" spiritualism and enlightened fungus eaters? The climate is merely more underground today than in the peak years.

Shrooms and other organic entheogens are not as prone to commercialization and have long histories of use in primitive cultures while being much more friendly.
(Huh? $350 an oz for mj sure seems like heavy commercialization.) What does commercialization have to do with the sacrament and the devotee? If one pays $100 an eighth or received them free, the trip will be the same. More friendly? I have seen more people freak off of mushrooms than LSD.

Their possesion is also usually a misdemeanor or legal
In the USA, cultivation of "shrooms" is a major felony.

Is this going to turn into another tired and meaningless (but fun!) synthetic vs. organic debate? OK, you eat some datura and I wll eat some 2C-I, then we will compare experiences.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2827258 - 06/25/04 08:22 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

There is no shortage there is plenty of it enough to last a long time.its just not being distributed.wich in turn could be a shortage but it is there :confused:

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Offlineergot
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2827345 - 06/25/04 09:10 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
Quote:

ergot said:
Perhaps the lack of LSD has significance. Perhaps the Great Spirit, God, Creator, Tao, Reality, etc. has created this dynamic in chaos to place greater importance on the cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms. The psychedelic movement of the 60s was primarily focused on LSD and went bust... could the LSD shortage of today be a divine strategy to push the flow of the stream in a particular direction (i.e., entheogens)?

-ergot :mushroom2:




YES! errr...no.

what is the spiritual significance of the pack of anti-histamines crumpled up in my back pocket?

I hope that answers your qeeeuuuestion.




It doesn't.

Firsly, LSD was the supposed answer to the spiritual crisis of the consumerist culture and created an entire decade of counterculture movements. Your anti-histamines have never compelled such a feat.

Secondly, I view everything as significant... so, yes, I believe those anti-histamines in your back pocket will alter the dynamic of the rest of your entire life...

-ergot :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho

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Offlineergot
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2827348 - 06/25/04 09:11 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Since they are preeminently personal, and Holy, I will not describe them in a public forum - but I will say that the Experiences that I had on high doses of LSD have never been approached with Psilocybin. This is why Leary and Alpert changed from Psilocybin to LSD after Michael Hollingshead turned them on to his mayonnaise jar with acid-laced sugar. After cutting one's teeth on late 60's, early 70's LSD, I have to say that there really is a world of difference. I grew up within visual range of Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, and made deliveries there often. Unlike my college roommate, I never had any of their little blue acid tabs, but I did take Sandoz Psilocybin a few times and so I have a basis for comparison. No disrespect to the Sacred Mushrooms here! but, to use a Biblical analogy: the Mushrooms have taken me to the veil that separates the Temple's inner sanctum from the Holy of Holies. Acid took me inside the Holy of Holies. One need not however, 'go in unto the LORD,' so-to-speak, more than once in a lifetime to get the Message. All subsequent trips have been 'reminders,' in my experience. If LSD vanishes it is at least more retrievable than the lost Ark of the Covenant upon which the Indwelling Presence of GOD rent space-time to appear.




You've never eaten an ounce of 'shrooms... :smirk:

-ergot :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho

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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: The LSD Shortage... *DELETED* [Re: ergot]
    #2827643 - 06/25/04 10:49 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by supermarket

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2828166 - 06/25/04 01:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

No, but I've vomited repeatedly on a High dose of LSD taken intranasally - when existence began to hum and glow electric-blue like Cerenkov radiation around a submersed fission reactor, culminating in an overload to my nervous system. I've only once become ill on raw mushrooms (but that was an emotional response to something my wicked ex-wife did during the peak), but an oz. reminds me of an old article that Andrew Weil, M.D. wrote for 'High Times' entitled: 'Throwing Up in Mexico.' Care to relate what happened to you on an oz.?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineFULC
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2828197 - 06/25/04 01:26 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I hope the lsd shortage has no depth of meaning other than my dealer aint got none this week (or last week,,,,,,or the week before if i recall)

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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: FULC]
    #2828238 - 06/25/04 01:40 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

It's because of the loss of the Grateful Dead. The "Dead" unfortunately have 1/10 the following the Grateful Dead with Jerry Garcia had.

Also, people at the Dead tours seem to be scared now. When the Grateful Dead was around people didn't give a fuck. They were lighting joints in front of cops and shit.

Now they seem as paranoid as everyone else.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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OfflineFULC
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2828255 - 06/25/04 01:43 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

intresting theory lol

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Swami]
    #2828375 - 06/25/04 02:28 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"You mean unlike the current level of "true" spiritualism and enlightened fungus eaters? The climate is merely more underground today than in the peak years."

I admit you have a point. It seems to me that most of the mysticism (not all), even on this forum, is just an excuse to be stoned, but I feel that taking a spiritual approach to entheogens promotes a healthy attitude to them and minimizes the party attitude, which can be dangerous, associated with many drugs and alcohol. In the 60s this was rampant to the point of extreme excess. I guess the more low key attitude is best, though.

"(Huh? $350 an oz for mj sure seems like heavy commercialization.) What does commercialization have to do with the sacrament and the devotee?"

Mushrooms have a small cut of the black market while San Pedro, Peruvian Torch, Salvia, and Ayahuasca have almost none. My choice of words was bad. By commercialization I meant "drug dealing". At this time in my life I see drug dealers as promoting evil. The money is often used for the exploitation and degradation of people and the lifestyle it promotes is hopeless despair. I will no longer associate with such people in order to get a substance. Our nation could correct this by revising our drug laws, but at this time it has not happened. Drug dealing also focuses negative attention on the subject of entheogens. San Pedro and Salvia are still legal to posess because enough people haven't made asses of themselves with it.

"In the USA, cultivation of "shrooms" is a major felony."

I said "possesion".

"Is this going to turn into another tired and meaningless (but fun!) synthetic vs. organic debate?"

Not with me. I see both as equal. All substances are "natural" as they were created at our planet's creation. MarkostheGnostic asserted that only LSD is capable of intense hallucinogenic experiences. When I was 21 I took 12 doses of some moderately decent (about 150mcg per) acid and I experienced near to the maximum effect that can be practically acheived. After about 1000mcg you need to take 500mcg more to notice a difference so it becomes a case of diminishing returns. I have equaled this experience several times with natural psychedelics...particularly with Ayahuasca though the shits I got were pretty bad. I have found that people who are interested in natural entheogens are somewhat more educated about the subject than the normal acid user, but that is just my experience.

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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2828413 - 06/25/04 02:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

supermarket said:
all I have to say is: I'm glad im not experiencing this LSD shortage you speak of :smile:







what are those called are they from the US? anyways nice print

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2828554 - 06/25/04 03:41 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Firsly, LSD was the supposed answer to the spiritual crisis of the consumerist culture and created an entire decade of counterculture movements. Your anti-histamines have never compelled such a feat.

Secondly, I view everything as significant... so, yes, I believe those anti-histamines in your back pocket will alter the dynamic of the rest of your entire life...

-ergot :mushroom2:




ahhh, the dead dreams of a bygone era of hedonistic stoners come hedonistic yuppies. More like an entire decade of "check us out, we are soooo counterculture! were stoned! wooooooh!".

naive, often idiotic, self-aggrandizing, ultimately false, and in the end, completely ineffectual.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinesoylent_green
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2829026 - 06/25/04 08:14 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

there is shortage here, big time. had to order from europ and pay waaaayy too much!
i'm sure it will come back. i just hope it's in my life time XD


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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Invisibleblink
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2829045 - 06/25/04 08:32 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
Perhaps the lack of LSD has significance. Perhaps the Great Spirit, God, Creator, Tao, Reality, etc. has created this dynamic in chaos to place greater importance on the cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms. The psychedelic movement of the 60s was primarily focused on LSD and went bust... could the LSD shortage of today be a divine strategy to push the flow of the stream in a particular direction (i.e., entheogens)?

-ergot :mushroom2:




Or maybe not as many people are making it. :crazy2:

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Anonymous

Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: blink]
    #2829073 - 06/25/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

fuck supermarket. how many hits you got?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2837781 - 06/28/04 09:27 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Corrections are in order. Firstly, I never use the term "hallucinogen" as it is a misnomer. It is a medical term which is wrong inasmuch as the indole substances may produce 'pseudo-hallucinations,' like the patterns, lace doilies and kaleidoscopes that appear behind closed eyes or projected on the sky. Referring to 'psychedelics' or 'entheogens' or 'empathogens' as 'hallucinogens,' only minimizes the truly profound aspects that these substances engender, and continues to uphold the perjorative medical model devaluation of these sacred substances, not to mention the lawyer minds that have made them schedule I drugs with insane punishments associated with their possession.

Secondly, I stated that in 'my' experience, I have not (unfortunately) had the same quality or degree of intensity of mystical religious experience with psilocybin as I have with LSD. This category of experience has Nothing to do with the banalities of novel sensory experiences, which is what 'hallucinations' are about.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2837951 - 06/28/04 10:45 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I use the terms hallucinogen and entheogen interchangebly. I actually prefer entheogen, but old habits die hard.

If you take 3 foot of 3" San Pedro or 7 grams of Cubensis, I believe you would find that the "mystical" intensity is there. That sort of intensity depends upon preconcieved notions as well so maybe not. I find natural entheogens provide a more mystical experience, but that is just me.

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The LSD Shortage... *DELETED* [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2838964 - 06/29/04 08:01 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by MAIA

Reason for deletion: admin: porting went wrong



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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MAIA]
    #2839279 - 06/29/04 09:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

To quote the book entiitled 'Mind,' from a Time-Life set of books that I've had since childhood: "LSD is 100 times as powerful as psilocybin, 7000 times as powerful as mescaline." Of course these estimates have to do with amounts. 250 mcgs of LSD is unbelievably tiny when you consider that a postage stamp weighs about 60,000 mcgs!

I have no experience with Salvia Divinorum, and I've always been something of a purist - not combining substances. The quest for clarity, even smoothly adapted neurological functioning, requires a certain simplicity for my simple mind to grasp. My system can handle the chemistry, but my consciousness doesn't need the flux of one drug waning, the other waxing. Example: a friend took 2 tabs of Ecstasy that was either not completely converted, or mixed with pure Methamphetamine. The empathogenic effect wore off quickly, and she continued to speed her brains out for 24 hours. I want to 'grok in fullness,' one-thing-at-a-time. But, that is a philosophy - each to his own. Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2839441 - 06/29/04 10:50 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think you're correct about "preconceived notions," which are part of the mental 'set' of one's trip. Thinking about Mushrooms does evoke 'some' MesoAmerican associations, but I've been endeavoring to see the Mushroom in another context deriving from the Christian Gnostic philosopher Jacob Boehme (if you enlarge my avatar, you can see a few mushroom allusions - the clearest of which is superimposed upon the Heart of the Son, which is superimposed upon a cross).

When I read that highly purified LSD-25 luminesces in the dark because of a phosphorus element in the molecule, I immediately associated that with a picture in my consulting room which shows alchemist Hennig Brand, kneeling in prayer before a flask of Phosphorus which is lighting up his laboratory at night. I later came to believe that LSD is the Philosophers' Stone, particularly after reading Ram Dass' teacher Hari Dass Baba say that: "LSD is like Christ in America...America is the most materialistic country therefore God has shown His Avatar in a form of LSD (a material)," wherein the Philosophers' Stone IS Christ (in a Sacramental sense).

I have some experience with Peyote, none with San Pedro (yet), but perhaps it is time for a dosage adjustment with 'fruiting bodies.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2840473 - 06/29/04 03:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"LSD is 100 times as powerful as psilocybin, 7000 times as powerful as mescaline."

While correct, that is potency for weight only. Other things will yield equivalent effects with high enough doses.

"I have some experience with Peyote"

You can actually get more effect from Pedro due to the fact you can consume more without physically becoming ill.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2840660 - 06/29/04 04:41 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

The times have changed. People nowadays are so commercialized, and it is much easier to grow shrooms than produce LSD for the common layman, and can get you more of a profit on a smaller term dealing, such as selling it to high school kids for 35 an eighth while LSD, even jacked up to ignorant people, isn't usually that jacked up

Not to mention we got our major LSD producers serving 30 years without parole and life without parole, therefore new blood needs to come along if we're going to ever see another huge flood of acid (or the renewed energy of old blood)


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Ravus]
    #2842102 - 06/30/04 12:15 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Or maybe, people have met too many LSD casualities, and it has turned them off of the drug?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2842116 - 06/30/04 12:20 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I have met very few of these people. If you think of the Shroomery as a small reflection of the drug community as a whole (as it is a collection of scattered entheogen and ex-entheogen users,), it seems most of the current entheogen users would love a flood of LSD as a small piece of the pie could fall into their hands, along with many other drug communities, such as the Bonnarroo and Burning Man attendees who would also love abundant cheap LSD. From my observations and experience, it just seems that there's not nearly enough supply to meet the demand


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Ravus]
    #2842333 - 06/30/04 01:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

When LSD was introduced it was treated entirely too casually. This caused many bad trips. Many people considered it a joke to give another LSD without their knowledge (this happened to me once I just didn't happen to care) which can have a devastating effect on a person. Timothy Leary, while he was at heart a good man, alienated the establishment with "turn on, tune in, drop out" because of the negative attitude this seemed to convey. It did not matter that it was created as a positive thing, it sounded negative. In the end the cumulative effect of scary experiences and Timothy Leary's ranting was to convince society at large that this was a very dangerous drug even though it is among the very safest medically. Alcohol is way more dangerous, but the perception was created and now it is set in stone. The opportunity for LSD to revolutionize our society has passed, and it's legacy ensures it will NOT (ever) get a second chance. Besides there is no way most people want to risk a felony drug conviction. Many people, like myself, refuse to deal with drug dealers as well. Through the early 80s I took a lot of it, but for me those days are gone. As they are for most people.

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2842387 - 06/30/04 01:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
yeah no comparison between anti histamines and psychadelics,




Take 1.5g of dimenhydrinate and say that.


Quote:

or at least id like to see your explanation of that, besides their both chemicals.




I believe the poster is implying that LSD has no spiritual significance. It is just a chemical.

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OfflineFULC
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2843083 - 06/30/04 09:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

aint that a Anti-Emetic??

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2843101 - 06/30/04 09:57 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with all that you've said, but I would add that while you are expressing the social perspective of LSD as a change-agent, the psychotherapeutic usefulness of it is still quite real. In the hands of someone like Stan Grof, or a school of thought which he has founded with regard to its use (see 'LSD Psychotherapy' or 'Realms of the Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research') major change in individuals is still possible. The days of Dionysian excess are, as you say, long gone. LSD has to be used in an Apollonian, planned and implemented way, yet the effects can still be ecstatic. Gone are the days of the Grateful Dead shows where the dealer is so high he stops selling his acid and gives it away, or day-glo painted buses, flower-power head shops, or feathers, beads and bells adorning bell-bottomed blue-jeaned hippies.

For me, Richard Alpert's inner-directed use of LSD was far, far more life-changing than the ecstatic outer-directed, social-structure-destroying extroverted use that Leary was about. Even Albert Hofmann - Father of LSD - has this attitiude about Leary. I could see Sandoz Pharmaceuticals in E. Hanover, NJ from my front yard. Leary and Alpert drove there to get their first psilocybin. Just exactly how millions of Sandoz little blue LSD pills 'left' that high security facility will always seem to me to be a social experiment conducted by our own Uncle Sam. It is just not possible that they were stolen. A college roommate of mine, before I met him, had a baggy of 200 pills! He was one random kid. The experiment turned out to show the dangerous effect that LSD had on a materialistic, consumer-mad society. When a day-glo painted VW Beetle makes more sense and more fun than a luxury automobile; when social status is seen through as stupid brainwashing; when ego-based showing off and rabid competition are killed by psychedelic illumination - STOP THE PRESSES!!!! - The pill presses, I mean.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2843916 - 06/30/04 02:34 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

While LSD has amazing potential for personal growth due to it's intense potency, the laws concerning it have nipped any such use effectively in the bud. I agree, Alpert put what he learned to practical use while Leary stepped off of the edge. If Alpert had been the "official" spokesman for it we may have been able to get it at the corner grocery by now.

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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2844205 - 06/30/04 04:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

we may have been able to get it [LSD] at the corner grocery by now.

Puh-lease. I think you dramatically overstate the effect Leary's LSD spin had on public opinion. It may indeed have speeded up LSD's illegal status, but its illegality was always inevitable.

Why?

By far the largest factor making LSD illegal is the fact that this substance has the power to destabilize people's worldviews, and people in power don't like that. In fact it scares the hell out of them (as it should).

If marijuana can't be bought at your local curbstore, what makes you think LSD, a much more powerful substance, could ever have been readily available due to one man's influence?

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2845007 - 06/30/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Im amazed that people think that LSD somehow allows someone to "grow", Id like a decent explanation of this theory, because as it stands, it sounds like stereotypical stoner bullshit.

Ive met and known many users of LSD and they were no more intellectually developed than non-users, if anything, the LSD use retarded their ability to think and learn.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: zorbman]
    #2845305 - 06/30/04 09:29 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Allow me some humor(and fantasy). No I am not that naive, but it is plain that the highly negative feelings about LSD were mostly incurred by Leary's influence. The name "acid" did not help either. I mean what do you think about someone who speaks of consuming something called acid. You think that they are depleting brain cells of course, even if that is far from the truth.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/30/04 09:36 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2845573 - 06/30/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you just happen to meet a lot of people with average to below average IQ's, or people who are not constitutionally intellectual or particularly spiritual either. The Psychedelic Experience changed my life, for life, and fed a passion that has lasted for 30 years, which fuelled my passion for knowledge, propelling me successfully through 3 universities, over 10 years, and earning degrees in 3 fields that I saw as related to the Psychedelic Experience. But I learned to use Psychedelics in the service of a quest for Ultimate Reality.

I also saw a lot of 'acid casualties,' dabblers, poly-drug abusers, and a few paranoid schizophrenics and bipolar disordered individuals as well. However, one of my oldest friends who no longer trips (since he married a few years ago) always maintained that tripping was just "a lot of fun," but refused to discuss any spiritual or metaphysical significance to his experiences. He is a geophysicist (formerly with Chevron Oil) with some training in astrophysics (which he abandoned as not practical for finding a job). Another childhood friend - who accompanied me on my very first acid trip on Windowpane, which incidentally, tomorrow is the 32nd anniversary of) - used to design electronic microchips and microprocessors. He is self-taught, no school. I can't speak for them, but I've changed and grown in the intellectual, moral, and spiritual domains of human development in degrees that would never have been reached without Psychedelic Experiences, which shook me out of a world-view that didn't even include the second two domains, and saw the intellect as merely a means to getting ahead in the world.

So don't be so quick to [mis]judge based on your own experiences with people. All kinds of people from the Beatles to Stephen King to computer geniuses in Silicon Valley to Tibetan Buddhist Lama Govinda to Stan Grof, Ram Dass, and Albert Hofmann himself have all attested to the benefits of intelligent psychedelic usage.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSchadenfreude
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2845625 - 06/30/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Anything that offers a different perspective on life, the universe, and everything can be an indispensable learning tool when used respectfully.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Schadenfreude]
    #2845636 - 07/01/04 12:02 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

It just seems that the actual use of LSD is irrelevant, and that with all the LSD success stories, it was their hard work and education that made them what they became.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2845776 - 07/01/04 12:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
It just seems that the actual use of LSD is irrelevant, and that with all the LSD success stories, it was their hard work and education that made them what they became.




I dunno, I'd sort of think that perhaps it was the LSD that led these sucessful people to fully realize who they were, where they want to go, how to get there... the LSD effectively serving as a catalyst to their success...

I wouldn't be half the person that I am now if I never had ate mushrooms or smoked marijuana. They are tools for the mind; they provide the ability to have a unique and reflective experience which can change you forever. Obviously, "it all came from within", but without the psychadelic acting as catalyst, it wouldn't have came out the same way that it did. Obviously, there was a symbiosis between the psychadelic and the individual that produced results that would not have been produced on their own. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2845993 - 07/01/04 01:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Then how does that explain people getting to the exact same, and much higher degrees of intellectual success without the LSD?

you have the writer, the computer programmer, the chemical engineer, all as good, and probably much better than the LSD users, who all achieved what they have without LSD.

What does that say about the LSD user if LSD is the root of their success, are they weaker because they needed chemicals to achieve what they wanted? methinks this is true.

I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.

If drugs ever helped anyone become anything, then why didnt it help everyone? why all the stoner retards? this theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese and Clyde Barrow combined.


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InvisiblePsilostylin
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2846027 - 07/01/04 02:06 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

i don't think that A Higher Power has anything to do with the acid shortage nowadays. it's a good thought though. i had read something over at the cannabis culture forums, from a respected user named Mr. Selfdestruct, stating a good explanation as to why there's an acid shortage......(he did not write this...he sited it was from wikipedia.org )......

"LSD has been manufactured illegally since the 1960s. A limited number of chemists, probably less than a dozen, are believed to have manufactured nearly all of the illicit LSD available in the United States. Some of these manufacturers probably operated continuously for 30 years or more.

Pickard and Apperson ran an LSD lab in this former missile silo in Nebraska.

LSD manufacturers and traffickers can be separated into two groups. The first group was based in northern California and later identified by the DEA as run by chemists (referred to as cooks) William Leonard Pickard and Clyde Apperson. Initial distribution points for this group's LSD were usually in the San Francisco area, or coordinated elsewhere through informal meetings at Grateful Dead concerts. These men worked in close association with trusted traffickers. The government claims that these two men were responsible for the vast majority of LSD sold illegally in the United States and a significant amount of the LSD sold in Europe, and that black market LSD availability dropped by 95% after the two were arrested in 2000. [2]

In November of 2003, Pickard and Apperson were sentenced to two life sentences and two 30 year sentences, respectively, after being convicted in Federal Court of running a large scale LSD manufacturing operation out of several clandestine laboratories, including a former missile silo near Wamego, Kansas.

The second group of cooks consists of small independent producers who, operating on a comparatively limited scale, can be found throughout the country. As a group, independent producers are of less concern to the Drug Enforcement Agency than the northern California group, inasmuch as their production is intended for local consumption only."

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2847369 - 07/01/04 12:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree that nobody can clearly attribute their success or failure to LSD use. IMO, LSD might help people "grow" or become better people or help them intellectually, but at this point it is unknown whether or not this is true. Claims that LSD helped in someone's development lack evidence. IMO, the "fact" that LSD obviously helps individual's in their growth is a myth.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2847392 - 07/01/04 12:56 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
Then how does that explain people getting to the exact same, and much higher degrees of intellectual success without the LSD?




It doesn't, as it has nothing to do with those people. We are talking about the people that had experiences on psychadelics that brought said people to a new appreciation of life, greater understanding of themselves, and brought them to strive towards success in whatever area they are interested in... it isn't as if psychadelics are being proposed as the key to success here, I was only proposing psychadelics as the catalyst that brought some people to discover the key to success.

Quote:


What does that say about the LSD user if LSD is the root of their success, are they weaker because they needed chemicals to achieve what they wanted? methinks this is true.




They didn't need chemicals to achieve what they wanted, and they aren't by any means weaker for taking psychadelics. Psychadelics provided for them an experience that brought them to some valuable understanding, and they set out with that and achieved what they wished to achieve. Other people who met their success without a psychadelic experience obviously had different experiences that brought them to this understanding. The point is, it isn't as if the psychadelics were responsible for their success every step along the way. It isn't as if it was the psychadelic that was doing the hard work, and the self development.. it was the individual.

Quote:


I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.




Of course we become the person we are because of the thoughts we "think". However, the thoughts we think come as a result of the experiences we have, and in the right context, psychadelic experiences can definitely have positive effects on an indivdual's life because they provide a unique, unparalled experience that allows for a new perspective, which brings forth a change in thoughts. :grin:

Quote:


If drugs ever helped anyone become anything, then why didnt it help everyone? why all the stoner retards? this theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese and Clyde Barrow combined.




If education ever helped anyone become anything, then why didn't it help everyone? Why all the dropouts on Social Security? If being raised by a family ever helped anyone become anything, then why didn't it help everyone? Why all the loners that go insane?

Obviously, the effects the experiences has on an individual depends on who the indivdual was going into said experience. No one here is proposing LSD as some magical cure-all that works on everyone. You get out of it what you make of it, of course. It all depends on the individual, and their mind. To the people that can make the most of the experience, LSD really can help bring some positive change. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2856036 - 07/04/04 10:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

in the 70's i found that small amounts of lsd was the best antihistamine available. allergies to cigarette smoke were relieved with 1/8th of a blotter.
I miss having my stash.
too bad the fools put it in the same class as cocaine and heroin.
there really is no substitute if you have allergies, though salvia extract is a fine alternative if you want a bit of expansion (not as good an antihistamine though)

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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2856087 - 07/04/04 11:15 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree. I had an abcessed tooth once, and the infection had got quite bad with my mouth so swollen I could hardly talk...I had no insurance at the time and I was broke so the dentist was out of the question for the moment. A friend and I decided to drop LSD (it was his). I took 5 hits of reasonably strong blotter and the swelling disapeared almost immediatly along with the pain. This allowed it to drain and when the acid wore off it started to heal and was gone in about 24 hours.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2856237 - 07/04/04 12:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, and since a 'myth' is an 'ahistorical truth,' it is a truth that is valid for 'all times and places' - i.e., universal. For myself, a scientific materialist, raised by non-spiritually-minded and uneducated parents, my high school academic career was as a weakly motivated B-C student, though in those days, at that high school, I would be considered advanced by today's standards. So I began an undergraduare program as a biology major with a vague desire to become a medical doctor. Having a crisis of 'meaning' (or the lack thereof), I began a self-inquiry with LSD on July 1, 1972.

To encapsulate 30+ years in a few sentences - the result was further experimentation, a change of academic major after the 3rd semester to something as absurdly useless as philosophy; one semester receiving all A's. I went on to graduate 'with honors' from that university as well as from two additional universities, earning a Master of Theological Studies and a Ph.D. in Human Development and Clinical Psychology. Why? Because the Psychedelic Experience impassioned me sufficiently to live in poverty as a student for a decade, to attempt to understand and incorporate the Experience with the disciplines I studied - often alone, celibate, without practical prospects of employment, career, female companionship.

Motivation is Everything. Intelligence may remain in a state of unrealized potential, but may just as well not exist unless and until it is actualized. A man who does not know that there is money hidden in the lining of his pocket will continue to walk around thinking that he is penniless. If he Discovers that wealth, he can then make good use of it. In Transcendental Meditation teacher training, we were taught to call Consciousness "Creative Intelligence." If you don't know you have it, you won't use it. Once LSD awakened me to what I actually had access to, intelligence-wise, I made good use of it. My only regret is that I didn't transfer to Princeton Theological Seminary when it became possible. Even though I was from NJ, I never had a chance in hell to get into Princeton as an undergraduate. I became a lot smarter after psychedelics and discipline entered my life. Again, potential intelligence is as though you had none until you discover it and actualize it - which is the role LSD played in my development


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2857247 - 07/04/04 10:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I can agree that with you that LSD played the role in your development if and only if you are not arguing that the pharmacological properties of LSD caused these changes. You seem to acknowledge that 'myth' played a role in shaping your understanding of LSD, which presumably altered and shaped your own development. Perhaps you're trying to say that my point is moot: that whether or not the direct physiological effects of LSD were responsible is not what's important, but that the role LSD played in one's life (mediated through one's understanding of that drug) is what's crucial?

If that's the point you're making then I think your reply is convoluted with respect to the post you're replying to.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2857504 - 07/04/04 11:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

LSD does not and cannot by itself guarantee positive change in a person. What it does do is provide perhaps the greatest potential for change currently available to human beings.

How a given individual responds to an LSD session depends upon what that person brings to the table. Garbage IN, garbage OUT.

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OfflineTheNewZero
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: zorbman]
    #2857700 - 07/05/04 12:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree! LSD is not illegal for public safety, and neither is marijuana and the various other drugs. Zorbman is exactly correct when he says it's about world view.

Think about the 60's. At the climax of the drug culture. What happened? People stopped caring about money, productivity, what time of the day it was, and so on and so forth. They cared about the planet, helping each other, preventing sensless wars, and things that are of importance. This scared the government into pushing propaganda on all of us.

Unfortunaltly it seems to have worked and the government has turned society into it's simple minded monkeys caring for only the materialistic.

capitalism = materialism = the use and destruction of valuable resources at an increasing rate when we should be slowing down to prevent the destruction of plants and animals (including ourselves)

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: TheNewZero]
    #2857885 - 07/05/04 01:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"What it does do is provide perhaps the greatest potential for change currently available to human beings."

no fucking way. A car accident can easily provide the same opportunity for a person to change, so can travelling, meditating, studying some discipline, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. There are myriad methods for a human to better him/herself. To think that LSD is superior is mere culturo-centricism.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflineSev
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2857890 - 07/05/04 01:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.





I'm sorry, but that's got to be one of the most idiotic sentances I've seen in a while. Yes, you are who you are because of what you think -- but what to LSD and the other hallucinogens do? D'hurr... They change the way you think. Revalations can occur with this insigation, and the results of the integration of these revelations into the psyche can have a vast and lasting effect on a person and their behavior.

Quote:


If drugs ever helped anyone become anything, then why didnt it help everyone? why all the stoner retards? this theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese and Clyde Barrow combined.




How come America doesn't have a literacy rate approaching 100%? I went through public school, and scored 780 on my SAT-V. School helped me succeed, and others ... well, I've gotten into arguments with workers at fast-food places that were caused by the fact that they didn't quite understand the meaning of the word 'any'. Why was I helped by school, and others weren't? Because I integrated the data and lessons.

If you're not going to put forth effort to change, nothing will change for you. This is as applicable to book learnin' as it is to ecstatic experiences on hallucinogens.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Sev]
    #2857907 - 07/05/04 01:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

They change the way you think.

wow, I could show you at least 15 people that would easily disprove that assumption.

I went through public school,

Why do you assume I meant the American public school system when I say "education", how simple minded of you. Education means exactly what the word defines, which can come in the form of a university degree, or a self-taught scholar of Chinese medicine, both are "educated" I do not consider a graduate of the medi-ocre American public school system to be "educated".


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2857908 - 07/05/04 02:00 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

A car accident is not a self-willed activity.

Are you advocating people running out in front of cars to alter their awareness?

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: zorbman]
    #2857911 - 07/05/04 02:03 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

what does it matter if it was self-willed? that was never part of the discussion.

and yes, I do advocate inflicting pain upon yourself in order to attain enlightenment. Play 4 hours of intense soccer, until your legs give out and you almost puke blood. When you are lying on the ground, after youve drenched yourself in water, huffing and puffing.....reflect on what it means to be alive as you possibly can.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2857912 - 07/05/04 02:03 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.

Ah, but you miss the simple fact that LSD has the power to radically alter ones thoughts!

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Sev]
    #2857922 - 07/05/04 02:08 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

They change the way you think.

If you're not going to put forth effort to change, nothing will change for you.


Which is it?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: zorbman]
    #2857928 - 07/05/04 02:10 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think one should go for both life-changing events simultaneously. Eat some acid AND play in traffic. Thay way you have both bases covered.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Swami]
    #2857937 - 07/05/04 02:13 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

:lol: :thumbup:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2858650 - 07/05/04 11:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

If you were using the word "myth" to mean a falsehood, I was countering that assertion with a more accurate meaning of the word.

My awareness of "physiological" effects of LSD were always confined to nervous feelings and/or shaking at the outset. Nausea and vomiting occurred perhaps twice. The psychological effects were the focus of course, and those effects had profound and far-reaching effects upon the course of my life. So, of course the pharmacological effect is the important thing! What are you asking? Would having taken an inert substance resulted in profound change? In a placebo effect perhaps, or in the case of taking a Eucharistic wafer (which is inert), yet the subjective expectation can effect consciousness of the taker.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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