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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2845007 - 06/30/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Im amazed that people think that LSD somehow allows someone to "grow", Id like a decent explanation of this theory, because as it stands, it sounds like stereotypical stoner bullshit.

Ive met and known many users of LSD and they were no more intellectually developed than non-users, if anything, the LSD use retarded their ability to think and learn.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: zorbman]
    #2845305 - 06/30/04 09:29 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Allow me some humor(and fantasy). No I am not that naive, but it is plain that the highly negative feelings about LSD were mostly incurred by Leary's influence. The name "acid" did not help either. I mean what do you think about someone who speaks of consuming something called acid. You think that they are depleting brain cells of course, even if that is far from the truth.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/30/04 09:36 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2845573 - 06/30/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you just happen to meet a lot of people with average to below average IQ's, or people who are not constitutionally intellectual or particularly spiritual either. The Psychedelic Experience changed my life, for life, and fed a passion that has lasted for 30 years, which fuelled my passion for knowledge, propelling me successfully through 3 universities, over 10 years, and earning degrees in 3 fields that I saw as related to the Psychedelic Experience. But I learned to use Psychedelics in the service of a quest for Ultimate Reality.

I also saw a lot of 'acid casualties,' dabblers, poly-drug abusers, and a few paranoid schizophrenics and bipolar disordered individuals as well. However, one of my oldest friends who no longer trips (since he married a few years ago) always maintained that tripping was just "a lot of fun," but refused to discuss any spiritual or metaphysical significance to his experiences. He is a geophysicist (formerly with Chevron Oil) with some training in astrophysics (which he abandoned as not practical for finding a job). Another childhood friend - who accompanied me on my very first acid trip on Windowpane, which incidentally, tomorrow is the 32nd anniversary of) - used to design electronic microchips and microprocessors. He is self-taught, no school. I can't speak for them, but I've changed and grown in the intellectual, moral, and spiritual domains of human development in degrees that would never have been reached without Psychedelic Experiences, which shook me out of a world-view that didn't even include the second two domains, and saw the intellect as merely a means to getting ahead in the world.

So don't be so quick to [mis]judge based on your own experiences with people. All kinds of people from the Beatles to Stephen King to computer geniuses in Silicon Valley to Tibetan Buddhist Lama Govinda to Stan Grof, Ram Dass, and Albert Hofmann himself have all attested to the benefits of intelligent psychedelic usage.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSchadenfreude
<insertsomething wittyhere>

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 25
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2845625 - 06/30/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Anything that offers a different perspective on life, the universe, and everything can be an indispensable learning tool when used respectfully.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Schadenfreude]
    #2845636 - 07/01/04 12:02 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

It just seems that the actual use of LSD is irrelevant, and that with all the LSD success stories, it was their hard work and education that made them what they became.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2845776 - 07/01/04 12:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
It just seems that the actual use of LSD is irrelevant, and that with all the LSD success stories, it was their hard work and education that made them what they became.




I dunno, I'd sort of think that perhaps it was the LSD that led these sucessful people to fully realize who they were, where they want to go, how to get there... the LSD effectively serving as a catalyst to their success...

I wouldn't be half the person that I am now if I never had ate mushrooms or smoked marijuana. They are tools for the mind; they provide the ability to have a unique and reflective experience which can change you forever. Obviously, "it all came from within", but without the psychadelic acting as catalyst, it wouldn't have came out the same way that it did. Obviously, there was a symbiosis between the psychadelic and the individual that produced results that would not have been produced on their own. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2845993 - 07/01/04 01:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Then how does that explain people getting to the exact same, and much higher degrees of intellectual success without the LSD?

you have the writer, the computer programmer, the chemical engineer, all as good, and probably much better than the LSD users, who all achieved what they have without LSD.

What does that say about the LSD user if LSD is the root of their success, are they weaker because they needed chemicals to achieve what they wanted? methinks this is true.

I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.

If drugs ever helped anyone become anything, then why didnt it help everyone? why all the stoner retards? this theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese and Clyde Barrow combined.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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InvisiblePsilostylin
Captain Save Em'
Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 678
Loc: New Orleans!
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2846027 - 07/01/04 02:06 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

i don't think that A Higher Power has anything to do with the acid shortage nowadays. it's a good thought though. i had read something over at the cannabis culture forums, from a respected user named Mr. Selfdestruct, stating a good explanation as to why there's an acid shortage......(he did not write this...he sited it was from wikipedia.org )......

"LSD has been manufactured illegally since the 1960s. A limited number of chemists, probably less than a dozen, are believed to have manufactured nearly all of the illicit LSD available in the United States. Some of these manufacturers probably operated continuously for 30 years or more.

Pickard and Apperson ran an LSD lab in this former missile silo in Nebraska.

LSD manufacturers and traffickers can be separated into two groups. The first group was based in northern California and later identified by the DEA as run by chemists (referred to as cooks) William Leonard Pickard and Clyde Apperson. Initial distribution points for this group's LSD were usually in the San Francisco area, or coordinated elsewhere through informal meetings at Grateful Dead concerts. These men worked in close association with trusted traffickers. The government claims that these two men were responsible for the vast majority of LSD sold illegally in the United States and a significant amount of the LSD sold in Europe, and that black market LSD availability dropped by 95% after the two were arrested in 2000. [2]

In November of 2003, Pickard and Apperson were sentenced to two life sentences and two 30 year sentences, respectively, after being convicted in Federal Court of running a large scale LSD manufacturing operation out of several clandestine laboratories, including a former missile silo near Wamego, Kansas.

The second group of cooks consists of small independent producers who, operating on a comparatively limited scale, can be found throughout the country. As a group, independent producers are of less concern to the Drug Enforcement Agency than the northern California group, inasmuch as their production is intended for local consumption only."

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2847369 - 07/01/04 12:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree that nobody can clearly attribute their success or failure to LSD use. IMO, LSD might help people "grow" or become better people or help them intellectually, but at this point it is unknown whether or not this is true. Claims that LSD helped in someone's development lack evidence. IMO, the "fact" that LSD obviously helps individual's in their growth is a myth.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2847392 - 07/01/04 12:56 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
Then how does that explain people getting to the exact same, and much higher degrees of intellectual success without the LSD?




It doesn't, as it has nothing to do with those people. We are talking about the people that had experiences on psychadelics that brought said people to a new appreciation of life, greater understanding of themselves, and brought them to strive towards success in whatever area they are interested in... it isn't as if psychadelics are being proposed as the key to success here, I was only proposing psychadelics as the catalyst that brought some people to discover the key to success.

Quote:


What does that say about the LSD user if LSD is the root of their success, are they weaker because they needed chemicals to achieve what they wanted? methinks this is true.




They didn't need chemicals to achieve what they wanted, and they aren't by any means weaker for taking psychadelics. Psychadelics provided for them an experience that brought them to some valuable understanding, and they set out with that and achieved what they wished to achieve. Other people who met their success without a psychadelic experience obviously had different experiences that brought them to this understanding. The point is, it isn't as if the psychadelics were responsible for their success every step along the way. It isn't as if it was the psychadelic that was doing the hard work, and the self development.. it was the individual.

Quote:


I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.




Of course we become the person we are because of the thoughts we "think". However, the thoughts we think come as a result of the experiences we have, and in the right context, psychadelic experiences can definitely have positive effects on an indivdual's life because they provide a unique, unparalled experience that allows for a new perspective, which brings forth a change in thoughts. :grin:

Quote:


If drugs ever helped anyone become anything, then why didnt it help everyone? why all the stoner retards? this theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese and Clyde Barrow combined.




If education ever helped anyone become anything, then why didn't it help everyone? Why all the dropouts on Social Security? If being raised by a family ever helped anyone become anything, then why didn't it help everyone? Why all the loners that go insane?

Obviously, the effects the experiences has on an individual depends on who the indivdual was going into said experience. No one here is proposing LSD as some magical cure-all that works on everyone. You get out of it what you make of it, of course. It all depends on the individual, and their mind. To the people that can make the most of the experience, LSD really can help bring some positive change. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: ergot]
    #2856036 - 07/04/04 10:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

in the 70's i found that small amounts of lsd was the best antihistamine available. allergies to cigarette smoke were relieved with 1/8th of a blotter.
I miss having my stash.
too bad the fools put it in the same class as cocaine and heroin.
there really is no substitute if you have allergies, though salvia extract is a fine alternative if you want a bit of expansion (not as good an antihistamine though)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2856087 - 07/04/04 11:15 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree. I had an abcessed tooth once, and the infection had got quite bad with my mouth so swollen I could hardly talk...I had no insurance at the time and I was broke so the dentist was out of the question for the moment. A friend and I decided to drop LSD (it was his). I took 5 hits of reasonably strong blotter and the swelling disapeared almost immediatly along with the pain. This allowed it to drain and when the acid wore off it started to heal and was gone in about 24 hours.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2856237 - 07/04/04 12:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, and since a 'myth' is an 'ahistorical truth,' it is a truth that is valid for 'all times and places' - i.e., universal. For myself, a scientific materialist, raised by non-spiritually-minded and uneducated parents, my high school academic career was as a weakly motivated B-C student, though in those days, at that high school, I would be considered advanced by today's standards. So I began an undergraduare program as a biology major with a vague desire to become a medical doctor. Having a crisis of 'meaning' (or the lack thereof), I began a self-inquiry with LSD on July 1, 1972.

To encapsulate 30+ years in a few sentences - the result was further experimentation, a change of academic major after the 3rd semester to something as absurdly useless as philosophy; one semester receiving all A's. I went on to graduate 'with honors' from that university as well as from two additional universities, earning a Master of Theological Studies and a Ph.D. in Human Development and Clinical Psychology. Why? Because the Psychedelic Experience impassioned me sufficiently to live in poverty as a student for a decade, to attempt to understand and incorporate the Experience with the disciplines I studied - often alone, celibate, without practical prospects of employment, career, female companionship.

Motivation is Everything. Intelligence may remain in a state of unrealized potential, but may just as well not exist unless and until it is actualized. A man who does not know that there is money hidden in the lining of his pocket will continue to walk around thinking that he is penniless. If he Discovers that wealth, he can then make good use of it. In Transcendental Meditation teacher training, we were taught to call Consciousness "Creative Intelligence." If you don't know you have it, you won't use it. Once LSD awakened me to what I actually had access to, intelligence-wise, I made good use of it. My only regret is that I didn't transfer to Princeton Theological Seminary when it became possible. Even though I was from NJ, I never had a chance in hell to get into Princeton as an undergraduate. I became a lot smarter after psychedelics and discipline entered my life. Again, potential intelligence is as though you had none until you discover it and actualize it - which is the role LSD played in my development


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2857247 - 07/04/04 10:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I can agree that with you that LSD played the role in your development if and only if you are not arguing that the pharmacological properties of LSD caused these changes. You seem to acknowledge that 'myth' played a role in shaping your understanding of LSD, which presumably altered and shaped your own development. Perhaps you're trying to say that my point is moot: that whether or not the direct physiological effects of LSD were responsible is not what's important, but that the role LSD played in one's life (mediated through one's understanding of that drug) is what's crucial?

If that's the point you're making then I think your reply is convoluted with respect to the post you're replying to.

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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2857504 - 07/04/04 11:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

LSD does not and cannot by itself guarantee positive change in a person. What it does do is provide perhaps the greatest potential for change currently available to human beings.

How a given individual responds to an LSD session depends upon what that person brings to the table. Garbage IN, garbage OUT.

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OfflineTheNewZero
Think foryourself andquestionauthority

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 15
Loc: Limbo
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: zorbman]
    #2857700 - 07/05/04 12:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I agree! LSD is not illegal for public safety, and neither is marijuana and the various other drugs. Zorbman is exactly correct when he says it's about world view.

Think about the 60's. At the climax of the drug culture. What happened? People stopped caring about money, productivity, what time of the day it was, and so on and so forth. They cared about the planet, helping each other, preventing sensless wars, and things that are of importance. This scared the government into pushing propaganda on all of us.

Unfortunaltly it seems to have worked and the government has turned society into it's simple minded monkeys caring for only the materialistic.

capitalism = materialism = the use and destruction of valuable resources at an increasing rate when we should be slowing down to prevent the destruction of plants and animals (including ourselves)

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: TheNewZero]
    #2857885 - 07/05/04 01:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"What it does do is provide perhaps the greatest potential for change currently available to human beings."

no fucking way. A car accident can easily provide the same opportunity for a person to change, so can travelling, meditating, studying some discipline, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. There are myriad methods for a human to better him/herself. To think that LSD is superior is mere culturo-centricism.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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OfflineSev
Astropath
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2857890 - 07/05/04 01:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
I think drug users are really illogical when it comes to cause and effect, you dont become the person you are because of the drugs you use, you become the person you are because of the thoughts you think.





I'm sorry, but that's got to be one of the most idiotic sentances I've seen in a while. Yes, you are who you are because of what you think -- but what to LSD and the other hallucinogens do? D'hurr... They change the way you think. Revalations can occur with this insigation, and the results of the integration of these revelations into the psyche can have a vast and lasting effect on a person and their behavior.

Quote:


If drugs ever helped anyone become anything, then why didnt it help everyone? why all the stoner retards? this theory has more holes in it than swiss cheese and Clyde Barrow combined.




How come America doesn't have a literacy rate approaching 100%? I went through public school, and scored 780 on my SAT-V. School helped me succeed, and others ... well, I've gotten into arguments with workers at fast-food places that were caused by the fact that they didn't quite understand the meaning of the word 'any'. Why was I helped by school, and others weren't? Because I integrated the data and lessons.

If you're not going to put forth effort to change, nothing will change for you. This is as applicable to book learnin' as it is to ecstatic experiences on hallucinogens.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Sev]
    #2857907 - 07/05/04 01:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

They change the way you think.

wow, I could show you at least 15 people that would easily disprove that assumption.

I went through public school,

Why do you assume I meant the American public school system when I say "education", how simple minded of you. Education means exactly what the word defines, which can come in the form of a university degree, or a self-taught scholar of Chinese medicine, both are "educated" I do not consider a graduate of the medi-ocre American public school system to be "educated".


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: The LSD Shortage... [Re: Positronius]
    #2857908 - 07/05/04 02:00 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

A car accident is not a self-willed activity.

Are you advocating people running out in front of cars to alter their awareness?

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