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OfflinePentacorn
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WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... * 1
    #28259140 - 04/02/23 12:50 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)



LONG TERM NEGATIVE EFFECTS

Hey guys, last season I found a bunch of gymnopilus luteus and decided to try it. Over a two month period I consumed dry 5g, dry 2g in tea, and dry 1g in tea. Around a week before I consumed the third dose I would have this daily head-pressure in the back of my head that wouldn't go away. I waited another two months before consuming any type of drug (including alcohol and caffeine) and the head pressure began to subside. I thought I must be crazy for blaming it on the G.Luteus so I took my 4th dose of dry 1g. The head pressure came back with sickening effect.

I can't be 100% positive that my ailment was caused by G.Luteus and I am too scared to give any to my friends to test my hypothesis in case I harm them too. So, I wanted to make this post as a warning to start slow with G.Luteus and if you have ever experienced this problem after consuming mushrooms from the Gymnopilus genus I would love to hear about it!

It has been almost three months since my last dose and the head pressure seems to have disappeared.

.
.
.

MORE INFO

The trip on 5g was NOT very psychedelic. It reminded me of about a 0.5 to 1g dose of psilocybe cubensis. HOWEVER, I could barely walk. It's like someone turned up the gravity 1000% and I just melted into my hammock. I didn't move a finger for almost two hours. I liked the feeling.

Perhaps the bitter taste comes from unknown (due to lack of research) toxins that we evolved to dislike? I imagine being paralyzed for two hours in a forest would have quickly weeded out any of our ancestors that thought this mushroom tasted good.


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WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT?
See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification


Edited by Pentacorn (04/02/23 12:51 PM)


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn]
    #28259183 - 04/02/23 01:38 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

I can only offer a few areas to investigate as hypothetical considerations.

1. Research the phrase "woodlover's paralysis" and similar spellings of that phrase.
2. Consider having the remaining collection or a future collection from the same locality for DNA sequencing. I would look into not only the Gymnopilus species, but also agaricicolous fungi and bacteria that may have been invisibly growing throughout the Gymnopilus. I would also sequence the substrate and look for multiple kingdoms/species.
3. You may have a medical condition that is instigated and revealed only by Psilocybin and related compounds, including MAOIs in Gymnopilus species.
4. This may be life's way of telling you not to consume magic mushrooms in a relatively gentle manner.
5. It is possible that you may also be sensitive to other drugs and even foods and beverages. You might benefit by developing more strict dietary constraints on yourself, including a permanent or long-term "staple diet."
6. Research the phrase Reversible Cerebral Vasoconstriction Syndrome (RCVS). Also, similar phrases.
7. You may benefit by abandoning most or all drugs and replacing them with exercise. Maybe mushroom hunting and long hikes would be a good alternative.

Note: Anyone taking 5 dried grams of Psilocybe cubensis is easily subject to temporary paralysis and intense immersion into altered reality. I realize you wrote this was a Gymnopilus species and the effects felt weak, but maybe part of your brain was activated, while another part was somehow "sober." That's a whole different area of research to consider.


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OfflineLongtimenosee
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn] * 1
    #28259205 - 04/02/23 01:51 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Fascinating!

Gymnopilus species contain several chemicals that may have psychoactive effects, medicinal effects, and or toxic effects.

Several different chemicals have been isolated from extracts of Gymnopilus. They are 4,6-decadiyne-1,3,8-triol, Baeocystin, Bis-noryangonin, ergosta-4,6,8(14),22-tetraen-3-one, Gymnopilene, Gymnoprenol A9, Gymnopilin A10, Gymnopilin K, Hispidin, Ostopanic acid, Psilocin, and Psilocybin. Little is known about the exact percentage of these substances found in Gymnopilus or their pharmacological activity.

Also reported are Bis-noryangonin and hispidin, which are similar in structure to the active ingredients in the psychoactive plant Kava-Kava, they may be psychoactive but this is unproven and weather they are present in quantities sufficient to cause effects is also unknown. They are also known to be antioxidents.

Gymnopilene, Gymnoprenol A9, Gymnopilin A10, Gymnopilin K, Hispidin and Ostopanic acid, have all been shown to be cytotoxic to some types of tumor cells.

A lot of research is needed to determine which of these substances are of pharmacological significance. As well as what species contain what percentages of the primary active alkaloids.

Determining what chemicals are present and their percentage in G. luteus could lead to understanding what chemical may have been responsible for this effect.

Negative effects of Psilocybin mushrooms are rare but a real and interesting subject of study that could lead to new medicines or recreational drugs.

:toadwalk::feelsshroomyman:


Edited by Longtimenosee (04/02/23 01:55 PM)


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OfflinemanOwar
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Longtimenosee]
    #28259321 - 04/02/23 03:25 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

I’ve had an effect that sounds very much like what you’ve described, apparently stemming from frequent consumption of Psilocybe cubensis, actually.


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OfflinePentacorn
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28259549 - 04/02/23 05:47 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

This place never ceases to amaze me with its plethora of mycology, chemistry, and biology knowledge. Thank you guys so much for the detailed responses!

Quote:

Thomas Envisio said:
2. Consider having the remaining collection or a future collection from the same locality for DNA sequencing. I would look into not only the Gymnopilus species, but also agaricicolous fungi and bacteria that may have been invisibly growing throughout the Gymnopilus. I would also sequence the substrate and look for multiple kingdoms/species.





How? I recently was asked to send an entirely different mushroom to a Phd student for DNA analysis on MushroomObserver.com but I feel like it is an entirely different story for G.Luteus since this mushroom is technically illegal to possess.


Quote:

Thomas Envisio said:
7. You may benefit by abandoning most or all drugs and replacing them with exercise. Maybe mushroom hunting and long hikes would be a good alternative.





For posterity purposes, I'm truly an anomaly. I didn't touch drugs or alcohol until I was 30 years old (I was obsessed with fitness/nutrition) and only changed my mind on the subject due to severe depression and the suggestion to fix it with magic mushrooms. With that said, many of your points suggest that perhaps even my use of mushrooms should be brought to an end now that they have served their purpose. I truly appreciate your flow of thoughts. Thank you!



Quote:

Longtimenosee said:

Also reported are Bis-noryangonin and hispidin, which are similar in structure to the active ingredients in the psychoactive plant Kava-Kava, they may be psychoactive but this is unproven and weather they are present in quantities sufficient to cause effects is also unknown. They are also known to be antioxidents.

Gymnopilene, Gymnoprenol A9, Gymnopilin A10, Gymnopilin K, Hispidin and Ostopanic acid, have all been shown to be cytotoxic to some types of tumor cells.





Where did you learn this??? I would like to read more.


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-----------------------------------------------------------------
WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT?
See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification


Edited by Pentacorn (04/02/23 05:48 PM)


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InvisibleIcyurmt
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn]
    #28259572 - 04/02/23 06:05 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)



--------------------
👁️ 🌊 why you are empty.

Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Posts: 1,662
Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn]
    #28259938 - 04/03/23 12:03 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

How? I recently was asked to send an entirely different mushroom to a Phd student for DNA analysis on MushroomObserver.com but I feel like it is an entirely different story for G.Luteus since this mushroom is technically illegal to possess.




Well, you need someone who has the right primers and expectations. Someone who wants to look for all possible points of cause. I would try to find someone who is really, really advanced at DNA sequencing. Someone who is comfortable pushing the envelope to exceeding expectations.

Regarding the legality, I would not worry at all about sending a collection off for DNA sequecing. Simply label it, "Unknown fungal sample for identification request" along with the Mushroom Observer observation number. Or label the bag saying "Unidentified Gymnopilus species / MO # zzzzzz". Include a letter saying someone anonymous experienced the following effects upon ingestion...

Regarding primers, you might find helpful literature using the following link . . .

https://www.google.com/search?q=Multiple-primer+DNA+sequencing+method&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I wish I could elaborate and give you more information, but that's all I have at the moment. If I can acquire anything better to add, I'll post a new reply.

Would You Like To Perform DNA Sequencing?

https://wiki.counterculturelabs.org/wiki/DNA_sequencing


https://wiki.counterculturelabs.org/wiki/DNA_sequencing#Supplies_Needed




https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/13B9OSE_ar_vWWZnHZegr2FROnMak78qHZxEZXc1E9jk/mobilebasic


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Offlinethe man
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Thomas Envisio]
    #28260353 - 04/03/23 11:19 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

hows your BP? got it tested lately?


there is a weird new virus going around that infects your brain causes systemic effects etc..


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Offline6The6Despised6One
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: the man]
    #28261070 - 04/03/23 06:52 PM (9 months, 20 days ago)

i cant remember where or what species but i did read something about a gymnopilus sp. maybe having some kind of substance that can have negative effects on the brain. but the same article was also saying whatever it was can also help fight alzheimers and tumors or something like that.

i did have a weird episode one time after consuming some luteofolious where i could physically feel something moving on my skin random places on my body but id look and there was nothing there. still not sure what that was about and it was very annoying, but not enough to stop me from taking them again lolz. i do think that even as real as it felt there was actually nothing there and it was all in my head. its called formication i think

after extensive searching online it seems like scabies is the only living thing that you could feel but not see mimicking my symptoms but i dont have scabies and you cant get them from mushroom hunting. (unless you have sex with someone who has scabies while your hunting of course)

that sucks about your head pressure though brother, cause i find gym trips extremely enjoyable and markedly different than cube trips. mushrooms can readily enhance any comfort/uncomfort your feeling drastically. especially if your worried about it happening. i had that crawling feeling come back a couple times after dosing with cubes which also leads me believe it wasnt the mushrooms in my case but rather my mind. now that ive convinced myself that, i rarely get that crawling feeling anymore


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: 6The6Despised6One]
    #28261075 - 04/03/23 06:56 PM (9 months, 20 days ago)

This is just anectodal fear-mongering, hate to say it :thumbdown: I empathize with you and your conditions man, i have chronic conditions that beat my ass too, but it wasn't the Gymns. There's other answers, talk to a doctor


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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OfflinePentacorn
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Moria841] * 1
    #28261154 - 04/03/23 08:07 PM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
This is just anectodal fear-mongering, hate to say it :thumbdown: I empathize with you and your conditions man, i have chronic conditions that beat my ass too, but it wasn't the Gymns. There's other answers, talk to a doctor




Moria I have tons of respect for you and always appreciate your take on Gymns. With that said, I did not try to make this into anything other than an anecdotal report and my personal musings on evolution. As I stated earlier, I'd love to give the mushrooms out freely to my friends (there was ALOT growing on that log, haha) to test my hypothesis but, you know, it would suck if I hurt a bunch of people.

I WANT these mushrooms to be safe because I really liked how they made me feel.

EDIT: I really liked how they made me feel *while tripping.


--------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT?
See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification


Edited by Pentacorn (04/03/23 08:11 PM)


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn]
    #28261223 - 04/03/23 08:44 PM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Was the log identified though? I'm sure that, like most mushrooms, Gymnopilus species could bioaccumulate toxins that cause head pressure as a symptom, especially if the wood was from a tree known for toxic compounds


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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InvisibleIcyurmt
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Moria841]
    #28261468 - 04/04/23 03:05 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Not saying that its what caused op symptoms, but at least some gymnopilus sp seem to be producing potentially toxic compounds.

Neurotoxic oligoisoprenoids of the hallucinogenic mushroom, Gymnopilus spectabilis


--------------------
👁️ 🌊 why you are empty.

Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.


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OfflinePentacorn
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Icyurmt]
    #28261718 - 04/04/23 08:57 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
Was the log identified though?....




The log and the stump were highly decayed. But based on the surrounding trees and the size of the log I'd guess it was a cottonwood. I suppose this is yet another path to delve into for potential toxins.



Quote:

Icyurmt said:
Not saying that its what caused op symptoms, but at least some gymnopilus sp seem to be producing potentially toxic compounds.

Neurotoxic oligoisoprenoids of the hallucinogenic mushroom, Gymnopilus spectabilis




Thank you for the link! I am slowly making my way through all of the literature that has been posted here.


--------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT?
See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn]
    #28261821 - 04/04/23 10:38 AM (9 months, 20 days ago)

All right, I admit I was baked last night, let me break down my argument a bit better:

For one, the bitterness from Gymns IN MY EXPERIENCE is highly anise-like, probably owing to anisaldehyde or similar compounds found in many different mushrooms, rather than unknown toxic compounds (which would almost certainly be found in non-tasteable quantities. Have you ever tasted the psilocin or psilocybin in Psilocybe species? I can't say I have)

For two, wild mushrooms always have the risks (and, on the same coin, the benefits) associated with growth in a non-controlled environment. Many different types of bacteria and other fungi in the wild are virtually invisible and come home with us on whatever we take from the wild. If these organisms produce toxins that don't degrade during the preparation process, then they will enter our bodies when the wild objects are consumed.

Further, as noted by manOwar, headaches can simply be explained by acute psychedelic experiences, and while we could just rule this out since your experience was long-term rather than accute, I believe that it is also important to note that many people who take psychedelics report receiving new insights into their emotional OR PHYSICAL health that they didn't realize needed to be addressed.

In my experience, one dose of a psychedelic immediately forced me to feel crippling long-lasting abdominal pain-- rather than blaming the psychedelic, I went to the GI doctor, and after reviewing my medical history we uncovered chronic constipation as the cause of the gas pain, and I have been managing it better ever since.

Finally, the gymnopilins highlighted by Icyurmt have not been shown to damage human cells in vivo; rather, most of these studies are interested in the destruction of tumor cells induced by gymnopilins. There is no evidence to suggest that these compounds are dangerous when consumed orally. On the other hand, kavalactone-like alkaloids such as bisnoryangonin have been isolated from some Gymnopilus species, which may have some psychoactive effects, but the safety profiles of kavalactones are generally well-established.

Thus, I urge us to approach this using deductive reasoning. Rather than asking "what unknown toxins in the Gymnopilus might have caused these symptoms," we should start by asking "what known toxins in the environment, or chronic health conditions, might have caused these symptoms,"


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Offlinethe man
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Moria841]
    #28262997 - 04/05/23 02:47 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

kavalactones are hepato toxic are they not? not a stretch to think certain folks may have negative sides. eitherway, good to note your experience perhaps others will come forward... wasn't long ago despite widespread use that folks didnt think woodlover paralysis was a thing and then only appeared in pockets...widespread use of gyms is very much more recent (was regarded as waste of time more or less until 6 years ago or so). so its very possible certain pockets of gyms have something similar, may depend on if dried etc

there also is a weird virus going around thats known now to infect your brain, nevermind inflammation... 

no one can say with certainty one way or another, unfortunate but will just have to wait to see if others come forward...


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: the man]
    #28263049 - 04/05/23 05:57 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Right-- and regarding WLP, most hypotheses centered around simply having high levels of tryptamines, causing uncomfortably strong body highs, while other theories suggested bacteria and their toxins as a cause (such as botulinum toxin)


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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OfflinePentacorn
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Moria841]
    #28263621 - 04/05/23 12:48 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
...the bitterness from Gymns IN MY EXPERIENCE is highly anise-like, probably owing to anisaldehyde or similar compounds found in many different mushrooms, rather than unknown toxic compounds (which would almost certainly be found in non-tasteable quantities. Have you ever tasted the psilocin or psilocybin in Psilocybe species? I can't say I have)





"The Dorito Effect" is a book where Mark Schatzker discusses the idea of nutritional wisdom which he backs with a bunch of intriguing research. For most of us on this forum his thesis will seem intuitive: if we taste something (good or bad) there was an evolutionary pressure in our past to make us seek out those compounds or avoid them. Whatever the terrible flavor in Gymns comes from I'd GUESS it is something that we probably shouldn't eat in large quantities. So if it was the anisaldehyde or other compounds I'd wonder why we are naturally inclined to avoid them? 

Personally, I love bitter foods like brussel sprouts but the bitterness of G.Luteus was nearly impossible to swallow. Again, I'm just thinking out loud. The real issue for me is finding out if I should blame my headpressure on G.Luteus or if I should start handing them out to anyone brave enough to try them, haha.



Quote:

Moria841 said:

Thus, I urge us to approach this using deductive reasoning. Rather than asking "what unknown toxins in the Gymnopilus might have caused these symptoms," we should start by asking "what known toxins in the environment, or chronic health conditions, might have caused these symptoms,"




I understand. :thumbup: Having worked in the medical field for many years I dread the idea of dumping a bunch of money into a doctor to diagnose my incredibly vague symptom of head-pressure. Haha. But you have me convinced that this is a good idea.


--------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT?
See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Pentacorn]
    #28263810 - 04/05/23 03:32 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Yeah that's a good point, I feel you there bro-- the medical system in the States is pretty out of whack


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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InvisibleThomas Envisio
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Re: WARNING! Gymnopilus Luteus negative effects after consumption... [Re: Moria841]
    #28264334 - 04/05/23 09:46 PM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

the medical system in the States is pretty out of whack




I would call it criminal on multiple levels.


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