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Hindsight
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: 0t0lerance] 2
#28256022 - 03/31/23 11:08 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Your setup is looking pretty good and hands off. I would wonder if 18C might be too cold.... I am running my zaps at 22-23C.
I would put a piece of your agar for that culture into some LC and see if it remains perfectly clear or if it gets cloudy. You might remember I have been battling some bacteria that was riding along the mycelium of my Pap culture. My paps would always abort and I'm nearly certain this was why - they were bacterial. I think I have cleaned up that culture now and I will share how I did it once I have a moment to verify the LC under the microscope (it looks clear but I'm still not 100% certain).
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0t0lerance


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: Hindsight]
#28256044 - 03/31/23 11:26 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hindsight said: Your setup is looking pretty good and hands off. I would wonder if 18C might be too cold.... I am running my zaps at 22-23C.
I would put a piece of your agar for that culture into some LC and see if it remains perfectly clear or if it gets cloudy. You might remember I have been battling some bacteria that was riding along the mycelium of my Pap culture. My paps would always abort and I'm nearly certain this was why - they were bacterial. I think I have cleaned up that culture now and I will share how I did it once I have a moment to verify the LC under the microscope (it looks clear but I'm still not 100% certain).
Hm, I'll just let it ride for now.. I increased the humidifier from 15 to 20min. I think, I'll clone the really fat pin and the fruit that didn't abort yet.. I'll remove the tote, give them some light and I have a small seedling heat mat laying around.. I'll put it on a timer and move it around the lid every day to prevent condensation. Who knows, not much to loose now. If it's bacterial I can't do anything for now.. but I germinated this culture on water agar, as far as I have seen, it wasn't bacterial when it was moved to T1  But yeah.. I don't know.. maybe I did something stupid I didn't realise..
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0t0lerance


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: 0t0lerance]
#28257237 - 04/01/23 08:03 AM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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About bacterial spawn; out of 16 jars of Zap 'La Martinica' I notice one that is showing some odd behavior (jar on the right): - condensation buildup in the jars - mycelium seems to form hotspots

Does this seem typical like bacterial spawn for P. Zapotecorum? I haven't encountered a jar that looks like this before.. not sure what to make of it. Maybe interesting as reference material for bacterial spawn of this specie?
edit: absolutely bacterial, was about to shake.. just a big wet mess
Edited by 0t0lerance (04/01/23 08:45 AM)
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YoshiTrainer
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: 0t0lerance]
#28257310 - 04/01/23 08:50 AM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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The only time I fruited zap was outdoors so this may not be relevant. I was thinking about your setup OT0l compared to my grow and possibly Nichromes observations. My mush would get directly watered twice a day but in between probably 'dried out'. (My climate is very hot & dry). I wonder if the wild ones Nichrome came across experienced similar? Perhaps light dew in the morning followed by 'drying out' then afternoon showers????
Maybe keeping high FAE but cycling the humidity to allow 'drying out'????
I have a couple different zaps on agar, hopefully not too long before I can post some indoor data.
You guys are so dang close!!!
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NotSheekle
OTD FOREVER



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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: YoshiTrainer]
#28257311 - 04/01/23 08:51 AM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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Interesting perspective!
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Hindsight
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: 0t0lerance] 1
#28257491 - 04/01/23 11:03 AM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
0t0lerance said: About bacterial spawn; out of 16 jars of Zap 'La Martinica' I notice one that is showing some odd behavior (jar on the right): - condensation buildup in the jars - mycelium seems to form hotspots

Does this seem typical like bacterial spawn for P. Zapotecorum? I haven't encountered a jar that looks like this before.. not sure what to make of it. Maybe interesting as reference material for bacterial spawn of this specie?
edit: absolutely bacterial, was about to shake.. just a big wet mess
I haven't done a jar of Zap spawn that I recall.... I think I always did cakes with these. But yeah in general the jar on the right doesn't look great. That shiny clear liquid is usually an indicator of bacteria.
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0t0lerance


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: YoshiTrainer] 1
#28257510 - 04/01/23 11:17 AM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
YoshiTrainer said: The only time I fruited zap was outdoors so this may not be relevant. I was thinking about your setup OT0l compared to my grow and possibly Nichromes observations. My mush would get directly watered twice a day but in between probably 'dried out'. (My climate is very hot & dry). I wonder if the wild ones Nichrome came across experienced similar? Perhaps light dew in the morning followed by 'drying out' then afternoon showers????
Maybe keeping high FAE but cycling the humidity to allow 'drying out'????
I have a couple different zaps on agar, hopefully not too long before I can post some indoor data.
You guys are so dang close!!!
I don't know, I don't know.. I'll first try to keep the temperature around 23 celcius. A steady temperature would already help, ordered a temperature thermometer. In the worst case scenario I could always try Hindsight's setup with the disks, if what I try keeps on failing.
However, I would resort to his method as a last resort (first want to see if I can make this work yes or no).. I do still have 2 large disks from when I tried a JCM FC in the shed.. however, I would love to make it work as I just processed 16 jars of zap 'la martinica' into bags. Used around 16 liters worth of cvg .. and don't want to just toss that in the garden too if everything fails.
Edited by 0t0lerance (04/01/23 11:19 AM)
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scapo
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: 0t0lerance]
#28257586 - 04/01/23 12:32 PM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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Yes, I haveQuote:
0t0lerance said: About bacterial spawn; out of 16 jars of Zap 'La Martinica' I notice one that is showing some odd behavior (jar on the right): - condensation buildup in the jars - mycelium seems to form hotspots

Does this seem typical like bacterial spawn for P. Zapotecorum? I haven't encountered a jar that looks like this before.. not sure what to make of it. Maybe interesting as reference material for bacterial spawn of this specie?
edit: absolutely bacterial, was about to shake.. just a big wet mess
This looks normal to me. My zapotecorum has colonize grains thin and wispy and also white and dense, similar to your jar on the right. You'd smell something off if it was bacterial
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Seeker604


Registered: 11/30/20
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: scapo] 4
#28257875 - 04/01/23 03:59 PM (10 months, 10 days ago) |
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I currently have six germination plates from two different Zapotecorum prints I received and started in late March:
First print is from Jordan at TrypLabs:

Second print is from a gracious Shroomerite:

Will be taking T1s tomorrow morning.
Peace & Light,
Seeker604
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psilocybist
All is One



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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: Seeker604]
#28261700 - 04/04/23 08:35 AM (10 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seeker604 said: I currently have six germination plates from two different Zapotecorum prints I received and started in late March:
First print is from Jordan at TrypLabs:

Second print is from a gracious Shroomerite:

Will be taking T1s tomorrow morning.
Peace & Light,
Seeker604
 did you streak the plate like what they do with bacteria cultures? Those are strange looking for germination plates.
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0t0lerance


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: psilocybist] 4
#28263251 - 04/05/23 08:58 AM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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Some failed zap growth pictures:

Fruits from the inside:
Edited by 0t0lerance (04/05/23 10:53 AM)
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Seeker604


Registered: 11/30/20
Posts: 331
Loc: United States
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: psilocybist]
#28263296 - 04/05/23 09:24 AM (10 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
psilocybist said:
 did you streak the plate like what they do with bacteria cultures? Those are strange looking for germination plates.
Flood plates made with pipette and cell spreader. There’s nothing strange about this type of growth from a dense spore solution. See my LAGM journal; all my flood plates have similar patterns of colonies. I use 100uL of sterilized, distilled water and a standard cell spreader.
🍄💙🍄
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psilocybist
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: Seeker604]
#28263821 - 04/05/23 03:43 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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But what's this method good for? isn't it like falling back one transfer?
I mean with a (traditional) single germination point at center of the plate, and letting growth to around edges, one could see a few sectors forming in the mycelium circle, and transfer from one or more points with some initial expectancy/knowledge of mycelium morphology and/or cleanness and/or growth rate.
 germinated spores on low-nutrient soft agar. spores were gently pushed down into media using a sterile medical swab. spp: pan. cyan.
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Seeker604


Registered: 11/30/20
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: psilocybist] 1
#28263860 - 04/05/23 04:11 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
psilocybist said: But what's this method good for? isn't it like falling back one transfer?
I mean with a (traditional) single germination point at center of the plate, and letting growth to around edges, one could see a few sectors forming in the mycelium circle, and transfer from one or more points with some initial expectancy/knowledge of mycelium morphology and/or cleanness and/or growth rate.
I don’t use agar to make selections; I grow MS to select clones. The point of any germination/flood plate is to get your spores to germinate and produce dikaryon colonies. The role of agar is to get clean culture to grain as fast possible.
I always take the healthiest and fastest growing colonies to T1. I don’t understand why you think it’s going backwards. A germ plate is the start of the life cycle; the P generation. You can’t go backwards beyond the mating parents on the germ plate.
You dilute your flood plates to isolate spores to produce monokaryons, but those are only useful in breeding projects.
I hope that helps.
🍄💙🍄
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: psilocybist] 3
#28263862 - 04/05/23 04:14 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Seekers method, while seemingly a step back, can create a wider range of genetic diversity within the cultures after a T1 jump. I'm kind of relieved to see it actually.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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YoshiTrainer
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: psilocybist] 1
#28263876 - 04/05/23 04:30 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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That sucks OT0l but hopefully you are closer to figuring them out!
Just looked at an old thread by Alan about a wall of Zapotecorum. (click on MO links)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13240150#13240150
Looking at the substrate they are growing in, it probably has organic matter but appears to be sand and clay mostly. Also, growing on the walls would prevent pooling water. I wonder if you plunged a shovel into the wall, how wet the interior would be? In one pic, the eroded soil looks fairly dry. In the pics, it seemed, none of the mushrooms had condensation on their caps. Certainly high humidity but not wet? Maybe they 'dry out' between daily rains? Could we make guesses that the soil is low nutrition, maybe high mineral? I think Nichrome mentioned high Ca where he had his find? Maybe Fe from the clay?
I have some cultures that are almost ready for grain so im mostly thinking out loud here. Maybe the bulk needs to be drier like some do for Subtropicalis. I've read sand is helpful in the sub. I also have Floordry which is a clay 'kitty litter' maybe some in the sub or casing? Coir, pinch fuel pellets, maybe a touch of compost? Plus spawn choices, maybe RGS for its low nutrition/high inoculation points? BRF/verm? Maybe this is irrelevant?
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0t0lerance


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: YoshiTrainer]
#28264444 - 04/05/23 11:24 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Yeah, I do need to mention I have syringe watered them a few times and this caused depressions underneath the cake where water collected, as it sits on top of a rack. Here a huge number of pins have formed (underneath). which ofcourse all aborted.. maybe this massive aborts caused some bacteria to take hold. Noticed metabolites on top of the cake on some white mycelium.. so it's combating something..
But I have 6 bags of other zaps, la martinica, colonizing.. for some reason after waiting since 2 march the aussi zaps are not showing pins yet.. but there are so many factors.
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psilocybist
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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: Seeker604] 2
#28264454 - 04/05/23 11:33 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seeker604 said:
Quote:
psilocybist said: But what's this method good for? isn't it like falling back one transfer?
I mean with a (traditional) single germination point at center of the plate, and letting growth to around edges, one could see a few sectors forming in the mycelium circle, and transfer from one or more points with some initial expectancy/knowledge of mycelium morphology and/or cleanness and/or growth rate.
...I don’t understand why you think it’s going backwards. A germ plate is the start of the life cycle; the P generation. You can’t go backwards beyond the mating parents on the germ plate... 🍄💙🍄
Thanks for answer, actually I meant falling back one step (the first transfer), not "going backward". You and TCO's explanations makes sense to me now.
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Tweeq
Tweeq of Nature


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: psilocybist]
#28266995 - 04/07/23 02:14 PM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


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Re: Official Psilocybe zapotecorum thread [Re: Tweeq] 3
#28267037 - 04/07/23 02:43 PM (10 months, 5 days ago) |
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Yeah, I do a lot of cannabis breeding and some mushroom on the side so I tend to think in that fashion. I always want the most diverse gene pool initially to select from. Once the selections are made I would revert to more standard practices most of the time.
In other news.. I was going through some LC's the other day and found a few of the Barrerae that look like they are still alive from late 2020. I'll be testing this weekend. Hopefully they are because the Barrerae culture has become quite rare over the years and I don't know if anyone still has it. The original culture came from Guzman's find kept at the University of Mexico. Barrerae is by far the most user friendly Zapotecorum I've dealt with. Just to put a feeler out.. If you have had a successful grow from a Zapo print I sent you within the last ten years then it's extremely likely to be Barrerae. Would love to hear from you and keep track of it. 
 Psilocybe Zapotecorum Guzman Barrerae Collection
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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